When he said women care for calves better, all I could think of was how you and your father sung the praises of Heidi and how well all your calves did that year. I like how you both are looking to move the farm forward as much for the cows as yourself.
Wat a nice insight into facts from statistics, i never knew there were people like stuart. At the end of the day its got to benefit the cows and the farmers. Less time, less money but a productive operation.
I really like Stuart and his experience with multiple farms. He should start his own channel as the cow whisperer. I would definitely watch. I remember watching Heidi giving loves and cuddles to the young critters. The men folk don't seem to have the time or inclination.
When I was a dairy maid, (long ago now, for Canadian Holstein Fresians ) the calves got used to going into pens for feeding and back into groups after it, Early training for milking, unless they were bull calves,And that’s another lovely trip down memory lane, Thank you 😊
@@thetessellater9163 it wasn’t my farm I was just the maid that did what I was asked, the stock was huge and yes they did use their own grown stock, Here’s a laugh I walked along the wall to get a piglet that had got out, slipped and fell into slurry, one awful day with long hair covered and had to go and get jabs B4 the hosing down, I have no problem with the smell of a farm, I quite like it, however I must admit I smelt it for days after. Still makes me giggle.
The Ginge was clearly desperate to not let go of that adjustable spanner. Reckon Tom you or Luke need to go and find the others as I can see you defo won’t be allowed that one😂😂
We have our calves individual for the first 3 weeks, make sure they drink well and gain some condition. Then we group them in groups of 6 and feed them with a milk bar. I find when they are grouped they eat more solids and are a lot quieter when they get weaned. I agree with Stuart, it comes down to management, environment and nutrition.
Love how you and dad are always looking at ways to improve your complete farm , even though it's bit by bit there is better health for cows and heifers and calves! It's so important to have all your animals in tip top condition and always working to that goal. Good onya and best wishes for the future of all your livestock!
@@mrhorsepower150 no 8-10 weeks, then calf nuts. Never batch. Some calves will go back if batch fed. When I say individual, I mean individual batch feeders where each calf has its own spot to be fed individually. Usually come that 5 calves can feed at a time.
I lived on a retired dairy farm while growing. I never participated, because the herd had been "sold-off" by the time I arrived. However, it was interesting to wander through the milking area and across the many grazing fields (down to the little stream). Which is why I enjoy your channel so much, I think of Mary Mac Farm and all that it meant to me. It's always good to put your heads together to come up with the best solution. xx
I help out in a few dairy farms and the one I’m at most has a mixture of single and double in pens until about 6weeks old when they are first on milk (cows milk is what we use not powder) and the only time a calf is singled is if it’s poorly and because we feed in individual milk buckets you can easily spot a calf going backwards and intervene so I guess it’s more calf management that plays a part and because we don’t have a lot of buckets we feed a group of pens at a time and you can physically see the ones drinking fast and ones that aren’t. Great video though and certainly gave food for thought on how to improve thanks Tom
Hey Tom your Dad is spot on ...Every farm differs ...but individual pens for the first 6 weeks ..a must ..this is the basis of your herd and your shop stock...and giving them the best start and a strong start is key...The TLC and time you invest in starting the calves is so important and is what will make your stock great..you invest in the best bull ..you look after your cows and its shows ..so giving your calves the best start is so so important...and you'll see the results every time...My Dad god rest him had the same idea as your Dad...and we always had the best calves on Mart day...people would buy them before they got inside the mart BECAUSE they knew the START they got...Great video as always.. keep up the good Graft
Tom I agree 100% with u that calfs are better in their own for the first 4-6 weeks that’s the most important time for them to get a good start and get the right amount of milk and meal to give them a good start in life
Well it makes sense from a timeline perspective. Week 1 staying with mum to get the special nutrients in the milk after birth. Week 2 Probably still with mum for some of it. Week 2ish, 3 & 4 move to a separate pen to keep a special eye on it and make sure it gets enough food/water/milk to set it up for group living. Unless you move them sometime during week 2 to be together you can't really be much earlier than that. Plus it's such a crucial time for them that any days where it gets bullied out of food can set it back.
@@Ben-fk9ey that would be okay if there was money in calves but when most bull calves are making £40 to £65 each you are not going to dedicate that amount of time to a calf especially when its mother can produce 30 litres of milk a day at 70p/litre. Yes in an ideal world that would be lovely but in reality most calves at best spend one day with the cow.
I sit in an office in Washington state and pick up milk at the grocery store. Your channel has rocked my dinner table. Had no idea of alllll the aspects of farming and how that milk shows up in my refrigerator and the daily struggles for better grass of all things! Your concern for the animals health is evident and I've learn a great appreciation for that glass of milk!
I think with calves what you said Tom was spot on, individual pens for 4 weeks, then into group pens until they reach a certain size, generally once they’ve all been disbudded and then into a large group, which they all get moved to eventually
Its good to see that you and the ginger one , are open to ideas ,even if it goes against your preferences',I was always under the impression that groups would be more practical to work rather than individuals, quite a eyeopener
What a great guy Stuart is you both looked like kids in the classroom, if only the cows knew how much effort goes into keeping them safe, healthy and happy... lucky girls. and yes the female gender is better at everything ha ha... great video.
Thank god for that we put in a new calf shed last year and didn’t bother with the individual pens as they were too much work, glad to hear it makes naff all difference.
Tom i used to do individual pens, I was spending to much tome doing the rong jobs and not enough time looking after the calves in a old heifer cubicle shead. I now have them all in one big shead from 3 days old feeding on a jvc calf feeder the best thing ever you realy look them up. I have it installed 3 years and never lost a calf and saves a ton of time and I can spend time more wisely not carrying bucket of milk across the yard killing my back, and more milk in the tank
The part he said about calves being in a building because of necessity, I think alot of people are in this boat. You often hear alot, someone putting in a new cubicle shed, or new parlour getting bigger and better, but not so much to do with calf housing or infrastructure.
Great debate Tom. Nice to see ya dad taking on board new ideas. Good to see family succession on your farm as it’s probably one of the biggest problems in agriculture at the minute, not enough young folk coming into the industry
Brilliant a Sunday video. That was a great idea for farmers to know what might be best for calf husbandry. Thanks so much Tom, Ginge & Stuart 👍👍👍👍👍🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
When are you all going to start wearing white coats? This used to be a farming channel. No greater boffins than your Dad and Stuart. Love the constant thinking through of your daily activities.
Really love these videos where you and the ginger guy debate it’s the real difference between age and youth what’s great is the way at the end of the day both have the same idea to only change it if it’s going to make life easier
I absolutely love watching you and have done so 3yrs, Hi from Australia. Hi to Jo and mum and dad, herd animals prefer staying as a group. Blessed be.♥️♥️♥️
The box "happy calf life" is missing. Cows are a group animal. Sure this is a money game but when a calf/cow stops being an animal and is just a product/number that makes money..... I don't agree with the farms where the calves don't even see another calf, standing in a small box with nothing to do but eat and sleep, until there a couple of months old. (I'm not saying that's so on your farm.)
Also, there’s a thing we call a creeper, that lets the smaller critters creep under to the feed but keeps the bigger ones out. It’s used mainly for weaning from moms.
Great video and really interesting even to non-farming types like me. I really like how Stewart presents the facts/evidence (or lack thereof), he does a great job. Strikes me that it comes down to knowing your own farm & working systems really well with experience of what works on a farm by farm basis. But also being open minded to trying new methods that will improve your animal welfare, productivity and your own time management. Its that fine line between doing something because thats how its always been done, and if it aint broke, don't fix it/change for the sake of change with no real discernable effect. Keep up the good work guys, keep moving forwards and please thank Stewart for being in this Sunday treat video. Yvonne x
your engineers chart goes RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW when you have to work them like we do , on the side of a mountain, in the Cedars, off a horse, sometimes in a storm. Cattle and Bison are a bit sketchier than dairy cows. And you always get one that will climb in a feeder ring and bawl because he can't get out. We have lady wranglers that do well too.
I think its a bit unfair to suggest the engineers chart should just go out the window, because he isn't the farmer himself. Stewart's presentation is based off professional opinion of studies conducted in this field. He isn't telling anyone they're doing their job wrong, he's helping them to design their operations with more efficiency yet maintaining herd health etc. The data he speaks about is based on empirical evidence and not anecdotal. He is also not dismissing anything Tom or his pops bring up, he is listening and will take these things into consideration. So my point is, statements about engineers opinions being invalid aren't helpful - don't forget Tom is the guy who invited Stewart in.
You guys sort of butting heads with Stuart is always entertaining and educational. He's my second favorite repeat visitor after the wonderful Mr. Waring. Maybe we'll get to see him too if you build something new. Whatever you end up deciding on for the future of the farm, I hope it works out.
Do pairs? thats what we do. Works fine, only thing i find annoying is when one becomes an expert stealer and you have to watch them like a hawk. A sliding panel to seperate them would be divine for feeding only. Feeding 3 pairs at a time, pour the milk, see if any are hesitant, not drinking, has a dirty bum etc, all good? Move on to the next. If one shows illness? Take a temp, observe signs of a specific illness like pneumonia or diarrhea and treat as necessary. Move into groups when theyre drinking well and not going on and off the teat. Now remember, these are BABIES, theyve been gifted with a set of instincts that we have removed the need for, they look for mom, food, companionship and just generally safety. Weve removed mum so now WE need to provide them with the safety they need. To me, individual just sounds unnecessarily isolating, provide a friend for them to grow with for the first month or two and were golden.
i love watching your videos, maybe even more than watching clarkson's farms, i'm unable to work due to daily siezures but if i was able to i would love to work on a farm like yours.
It is a benefit to the calves I believe to design a place where you can do everything more efficiently. They will be happier and you’ll save time. You and the Ginger guy 😉 seem to be on the same page. Love your exchanges with your dad.
Loved this video it is fun to have Sunday videos or any videos where the ginger guy shows up and has a fun discussion with Tom yourself or someone visiting. The passion for knowledge of cows and farming it’s obvious and feels nice to be a part of it through this video sharing that you do. Be well be you and hi to the ginger guy
G'day Mate's. I've been relief milking here in Australia for 25 yrs, few different farm's and I think a mix of both systems is best. Individual for the first five days roughly, or until they are a confident drinker, and you can keep an eye on them a bit easier at the start, after that in to pens of calfs within a week or so of each other, as normal. But at the end of the day, you have to do what is best for your calfs and best for you. Another great video mate, as always. Cheers from Down under.
Any knowledge gained from experience like yours makes for interesting reading for others, and might be useful to add to the decision mix for Tom and the GW.
Individually for 3 days then groups after that but I would recommend getting an ASTRO TOY for them to cut out on cross suckling.Its true what he said about females rearing calves .Some of the big farms I worked on in the past milkers banned from calf shed.The protocol was feed you calves first and older calves last to avoid disease spread.They also recommended plastic on walls to keep calves warm and for ease of cleaning.
Great video on a great subject Tom. Being a kiwi farmer we group starting with 10, then 20 to 40 when go into field but still on milk. So many variables which where covered perfectly 👍🍻🐄🇳🇿
Amazing video Tom thanks. We only calve at spring time and that’s 500 cows from July to September, average of 15/20 calves a day So individual pens would not work for us here or the majority of New Zealand Farms…… how ever i do see how individual could improve Calf health. Very interesting video and i look forward to seeing what changes are made 😎
Hey mate, when thinking about your calf rearing set up, I’d maybe go back a step first and have a think about your joining and calving set up. Can you adjust your calving patter to best fit your calf rearing set up. Might be that the most efficient thing is to calve in tight batch’s, so the groups of calves go through together at the same stage, all new ones needed extra attention at once, then they are off and away and require less if you know what I mean. I calve my 240 cows in 6 6-8 weeks, 53% in 4 weeks, calves go straight into groups of 35 once drinking well. No dramas at all. Do the lot myself so I am across it though day to day. Good luck mate 🤘
Hi, im a dairy farmer, have a bachelor in animal science specialized on cattle, and i have worked as research technician at norways center for animal experience at the cow barn, so i do have some level of expertise on this topic. So nothing said in this video was "wrong", but i feel that it didnt realy look at the whole picture, so i will try to explain what the "optimal" way of raising calves, in a theoretical optimal farm. obviously no farm is perfect, and you would need to adapt the solution to your farm. I am going to assume that you separate cow and calf shortly after birth. what we recomend is that a newborn calf is in its own little box for the colostrum period (max a week if healthy, longer if it has health issues), but have several boxes next to each other so that the calves can touch each other. after a week then we recomend moving the calves into groups of roughly the same age, and then try to keep that group somewhat permanent until they grow up. as for weaning the calves off milk, it is recomended to do that as a group, and based on the youngest calf's age. i would reccomend weaning the yougest calf has turned 8 weeks, but no younger then 6. It is also recomended that you dont change anything else at the same time as they get weaned, to reduce stress. if you get a sick calf, then it is recomended to isolate that calf, basically no matter what the issue is. If the calf is small, then you can use the baby calf boxes, but if it is a bit bigger then it should get a small pen(or large if you dont have a small one). It does not have to be a permanent pen though, it just needs to be dry and have a resting spot free from draft. If anyone have any questions feel free to reply, and i will try to answer them -Vard
we run our calves in groups here in NZ and dis-bud them in groups (vet put them all out at the same time and vaccinates them while they are down) - we do however run our groups in size/age - so we have several groups depending on age - we also by 4-6 weeks depending on the weather have calve shed that run out onto the grass so ours because of the weather are outside earlier than the UK - dairy farmers that are also youtubers here in NZ - Once a Day Farmer and Dozer The Farmer have their calf rearing on their youtube channels - we have just finished calving for the year here in NZ so easy to find and both are still feeding calves on their channels
I Don't know anything about farming or animal husbandry, but if what you are doing continues to make happy cows, that produce the product that you desire... you're already doing things right. If a small change makes it more productive and cost efficient without changing the personality/ temperament, and the end result of the product gained of the animals, you've gained savings on time, money and possible yield of better product... If the change does anything else... it wouldn't be worth it. Interesting conversation. It will take two years to see the full results at this point... The warrior is so knowledgeable and I can't help but to respect his opinion.
it's usualy because the stubborn farmer is right. like you would be suprised how dumb some of the experts are or just scamming you. not saying this dude is but some are. specially from the governments side. you know those government experts are trained educated experts but don't know jack shit att all about farming.
We buy from a local dairy farm and get them in small groups from 2-6 try to keep them in those groups although we only have groups of up to 3. We will put them on there own if competition is not right will take weaker calf out We currently looking at building a purpose built calf shed to handle more Calfs as are problems are have to move Calfs up as we need pens for new ones
Hadn’t really given these questions much thought, but given cattle are heard beasts aren't group situations better in most circumstances? Then if treatment is necessary, pull a calf out for the duration of the treatment?
That was an excellent video very detailed I loved it. My previous message was put up at the beginning of the video and now at the end of the video I want to change it... Excellent facts excellent opinion On your part Tom. Hope you and the Ginger dad have a great day
On our farm and my personal experience (own calves) individual for 14 days, just while they get their strength, then pens/groups. Main thing is, colostrum intake, we give a minimum 4 litres within 2 hours of birth and then another 4 litres on the next feed, forgot to add quality is a minimum of 22! Another thing to note, is got to keep the shed dry, could go on for hours with stuff related to calves. Keep up the good vids 🤘. And 2 fresh calves together, is a complete pain in the arse, get serious health issues, naval/joint Ill, scour and all sorts
You and your dad are reading from the same page ,and really you know your own animals😊 I was smiling at the beginning, I thought we were getting a milking video although saying that I did enjoy 😋😋
Very interesting conversation, if you’re starting fresh with a blank building it would be easy to go in a preferred direction but as you’re making do with what you have available there’ll always be concessions.
Seen a couple if really good calf set ups not far from you Tom when Lucy and myself where over there. Got some great ideas from them around feeding and drainage etc for our group housing set up back here in AUS where we re rearing 400 calves in 6 weeks. Popular option here in AUS is headlocks in each pen. You can still see poor performers; slow drinkers can't get bullied by faster calves etc but have the plus side of group housing. As you said, certainly alot of pressure over there around getting calves into group housing. Hope things are going well!
That table was a daft comparision. That's like looking at a road sign before entering a town which gives some information about the town ... for example ... Town was found 1850, the population is 2000 and the altitude above sea level is 2500 ft ... and then saying the total score of the town is 6350.
So fun watching the sorting of cows! I’m in california and grew up on a farm in Minnesota. Love your videos sometimes I wish you spoke a bit slower. Loved your Daddy’s correction on your grammar!🤪
I would say on their own for a few weeks then into a small group, as somebody has already said go look at 10th gen dairyman in states, don't bother looking at saskdutchkid, they cart newborn calves round in a wheelbarrow then tip them into the pens.
Read research on Co-Housing (2, calves together) that seems the most positive. My guess is it will be required or regulated calves aren’t individual housed in the future
I would say calves perform better in a group because they're a herd animal so they'll be happier in a group and therefore a happy animal will perform better
I think Tom sort of agreed, but just not for the early weeks, when they defo need to get a good start. He worried about the larger ones consuming more than their fair share leaving the lesser to go hungry.
@@thetessellater9163 yeah well I have my calves on an auto feeder and put them straight into the feeder after the first colostrum feed, must people say wait a few weeks before putting them on but it seems to be working fine for us
Every time I see your dad for some reason makes me really happy and suddenly, I finally figured out. It's my subconscious from my childhood Captain Kangaroo .
A different style of video, and it’s great to see the generational differences, but you both agree where it counts ! Pembertons put the animal first and you can see that from your for your personal opinions .
Very interesting. looking forward to what will come out of that discussion. I guess a new pen would be the best, if you can fit it in the budget ... And don´t forget a place for the goats and maybe some other animals ... would fit nice in your zoo
We moved from 2 wk individual 10 yrs ago to never individual and would never go back. The one big learing is we never feed calves in first fortnight on flat bottom feeders. We always use the ones with an individual feed. And we group the calves not on size but on drinking speed. The largest calf and be the slowest drinker and if it is the slowest no matter if its the biggest it will always be bullied when the rest are finished
I am not a dairy farmer or in farming, so I decided to not answer, but it is an exciting subject. Still, overall, a combination of both individual and group caring is probably the best way. I am only thinking as a parent, raising children. Oh, I don't know!!! LOL 😂😂
I guess I'd try to find a way to help the smaller calves along while taking advantage of the reduced work offered by group pens. However, trying to cut one calf out of a group looks like about the toughest job.
Single the first 4 weeks at least before groups is much better for disease. Large pens are harder to manage individuals and disease spreads. Although both superseded by calf rearer and I'll agree that is the main factor if calves do well or not. They can make both work very well. From a vet
Important to be able to have the calves in appropriate sized age groups early on. And not to be so stuck with the group that you can’t move calves between groups. The calf person should be able to work out their personalities and match accordingly. A weaker calf could still do well in a younger group. You need to see the alternatives in person to have confidence in them. My only experience is individual then groups but how could I say that’s better without trying a system tailored for groups 🤷♂️
One year I was tired of my Dad telling what to do how to do. Not like he hadn't been training me for yeas. So I got up before him and painted racing numbers on all the tractors. He was mad at first then he said you have your Mother sense of humor.
