Gruen Curvex Watches 

That was a brilliant find! I don't know when his next printing will be available but this website below might be able to help. www.gruenwristwatches.com/curvex-and-quadron-calibers.php

Thanks Mark! Yes it would have been really cool to see the movement. I didn’t even think about that at the time.

At this time no. The author is waiting on the next printing. He will have a few available at the NAWCC national convention in June.

Yes. I have almost sold out

@@kylerogers7049 I'd love to purchase one from you, if you have any stock left! Love the curvex, own several of the 311 and 330 models, and am always wishing for a great reference text!

Thank you for the info on the Movado Polyplan. I will have to check that out! I've never heard of them and it sounds like they were way ahead of their time. I look forward to reading about them. Thanks so much for watching and the info you provided!

you’re welcome. The Movado Polyplan was way ahead of its time. I’ve serviced one and they are beautifully made, too. I would love to have one in my collection, but they tend to fetch prices well out of my range for now. I wish there was a nicer way to say the below. I’m not that knowledgeable about Gruen or the Curvex compared to a few experts I can think of, but this Kyle guy hasn’t done much research and his facts are all over the place. Take all of it with a pinch of salt or verify it elsewhere first if you plan on repeating it. The Gruen calibre 311 was not made by Gruen. Alpina was part of the Gruen Alpina Guild (an alliance) and they produced the 311 Curvex movement for Gruen. When the Gruen Alpina Guild alliance ended, Gruen did produce the next Curvex movement, the 330 themselves. Gruen did not make watches ‘near Rolex’. Gruen made watches at their Precision factory, which was sold to Aegler (who make Rolex movements) in 1977. There are other ties between Gruen, Aegler and Rolex, but what Kyle says is incorrect. I hope he does some more research for the second edition. A well researched book on the Curvex would be fantastic.

@@mercuriall2810 Thank you for sharing all of these details. This is definitely outside of my scope and fascinating to learn. I will pass it along. Thanks again!

I would absolutely agree that the Movado Polyplan was one of the first, if not the first, curved movement wrist watch. This design was impressive and difficult. The Polyplan movement was much more complicated than the Curvex design. Both the Polyplan and Curvex movements fit into curved cases, but that is where the similarities stop. The best way to describe the Polyplan movement….. imagine a very long, flat watch movement with the winding/setting stem at the top. Divide the movement into four sections. The last two sections of the movement, are bent down. So the entire movement is still comprised a flat movement, but a good portion of the ends of the movement are angled down to fit into the curved case. The entire Curvex movement is built inside a two curvilinear planes. This design moved the mechanics of the watch to multiple planes, allowing for larger watch parts in the same space. You can see the physical curvature of the movement, whereas the Polyplan is flat on every surface, but angled at the ends. So it’s like comparing the 1929 3 1/2 L Bentley to a 1969 Mustang. Yes they are both cars, but it stops about there. Which one would I want? Both of course. They are both unique and interesting.

@@kylerogers7049 I’ve serviced several Curvex movements and been lucky enough to service one chronometer rated Polyplan in a beautiful white gold case. So I see where you’re coming from. But the Polyplan certainly divides the mechanism across the three sections of the movement. It was designed like the curvex to make use of all the space in a curved case so it could house a larger more accurate movement. The shape of the polyplan might be composed of three flat sections, but there are mobiles in each section and the movement spans all 3 planar sections, with teeth meshing at an angle at the interfaces. The winding works are in the top angled segment, the train in the middle and the balance and escapement is in the lower angled section. I’ve heard that the Polyplan was too expensive to produce in quantity and I believe it, but it’s a very unique and in some ways advanced movement. That some examples passed Chronometer testing speaks volumes to me.

Hmmmm not sure if you felt that bad…. What mistakes were made in the video?

I did feel bad. I love the Gruen Curvex and this guy has put in the effort to write a book on them. I don’t like criticising others work, either. I didn’t write an exhaustive list of errors because I felt a warning to fact check this before repeating it was enough. I’ll list some errors below, but please reply once you’ve read it and I’ll delete this comment, I really don’t want to attack this author. I’ll leave it up for a week or so if you don’t reply. The author attributes the curved movement to the Fry watch company. In fact the curved movement dates back to the Movado Polyplan, released in 1912. It’s more curved than any Gruen or Fry movement, too. They’re quite rare now and much less widely known. He’s a bit mixed up about the factory that made the curvex movements and the Rolex link. The 311 movement was made for Gruen by Alpina, as they were then part of the Alpina-Gruen guild. With the dissolution of the guild, production went in house and was done for the 330 movement onwards at the Gruen ‘Precision’ factory. The Rolex link relates to a different factory, the Aegler factory. Aegler at one time supplied movements to both Gruen and Rolex. The first bigger error comes with the watch he describes as a Gruen Curvex Techniquadron. This is categorically not a Curvex watch. It predates the first Curvex by several years and uses the flat rectangular Aegler 877 movement. As the author correctly stated, the mens Curvex movements are the 311, 330, 440 and 370. Not the Aegler 877. There are only 4 mens Curvex movements. The Rolex Prince also used the Aegler 877, which is perhaps where he gets his wires crossed with Rolex and Gruen. The next watch shown is claimed to have a super rare dial, due to the applied gold numbers. This claim is false, this is a common dial and the first 311 Curvex I collected has the same dial. Gruen felt quality dials were very important and were amongst the first to use applied gold markers in the US market. The Ristside drivers watches he then shows, whilst having a highly curved case are not Curvex watches either as any knowledgeable Curvex enthusiast will tell you. It doesn’t have a curved movement, either. There’s more, but surely that’s enough to justify my claim above?

@@mercuriall2810 About attacking this author - too late. I got notifications on this video and responses. I would have replied earlier but my father-in-law passed away - had a lot to deal with. It is late and I had a long day so I’ll hurry through this. I will break down the talking points one by one. I have documentation that backs up what I write. Here we go…. The author attributes the curved movement to the Fry watch company. In fact the curved movement dates back to the Movado Polyplan, released in 1912. It's more curved than any Gruen or Fry movement, too. They're quite rare now and much less widely known. Counter evidence: There is no curvature to the Movado Polyplan movement - none at all. Look at the documentation, the patent. In that, you will see a singular flat movement that has angled ends to make it fit into a curved case. By the fact that it is a flat movement disqualifies it being called curved movement. The watch case is curved, not the movement. By direct contrast, the Curvilinear patent, which was held by the Frey Watch Company, goes over the curvilinear design and shows a true curved movement. So again, the Polyplan movement is a flat, angled movement, not a curved movement. Please quit calling the Polyplan a curved movement watch. Its design is so much more difficult than that. ________ He's a bit mixed up about the factory that made the curvex movements and the Rolex link. Counter evidence: All “precision” grade movements were made in the Gruen Precision Factory by Gruen. Anything that was a 2nd party movement or otherwise was stamped as Gruen Guild, including the desirable 877a. ________ The 311 movement was made for Gruen by Alpina, as they were then part of the Alpina-Gruen guild. With the dissolution of the guild, production went in house and was done for the 330 movement onwards at the Gruen 'Precision' factory. Counter evidence: If you have the factory records that shows this, I would like to see them. Who made all the precision grade Quadron movements? The Quadron predates the Curvex by at least seven years. The 311 movement (shared many parts with the 500, 501 etc…) was a Precision grade movement which meant it was made in the Precision Factory by Gruen. It was not the Alpina-Gruen guild. It was the Gruen Guild which was a huge conglomerate of watch companies including Aegler, Lavinia, A.Shild, Frey, Mancini, and many other others. Photographic evidence of the Aegler, Rolex Gruen connection is available in the form of 1929 air ballon photo of Biel/Benne Switzerland. ________ The Rolex link relates to a different factory, the Aegler factory. Aegler at one time supplied movements to both Gruen and Rolex. The first bigger error comes with the watch he describes as a Gruen Curvex Techniquadron. This is categorically not a Curvex watch. It predates the first Curvex by several years and uses the flat rectangular Aegler 877 movement. Counter evidence: The 877a was not a Curvex and if I said it was, I didn’t mean to. In regards to Aegler producing the 877a, I could not find documentation on the Gruen side where Aegler actually produced 877a but I believed they did.. The 877a was a common known link in between Rolex and Gruen. That’s why so many of the Techni-Quadrons were/are bought up and converted to Rolex Princes. There is photographic evidence showing that Rolex was a part of the Gruen Guild. In the photograph, Rolex occupies one building while Aegler was in an adjacent building on the same “campus.” The wild thing is that on Rolex building, it says “Rolex & Gruen Guild Watches” with the “Gruen Guild Watches” done in the typical Gruen font. The Aegler building has this on it “Aegler S A Montres ROLEX. The photograph was taken from a hot air balloon above Biel Switzerland 1929. There were multiple movements made by Rolex for the Gruen Guild. If you were interested, there’s lots of documentation out there. Bypassing Rolex Gruen, see above. ________ The next watch shown is claimed to have a super rare dial, due to the applied gold numbers. This claim is false, this is a common dial and the first 311 Curvex I collected has the same dial. Gruen felt quality dials were very important and were amongst the first to use applied gold markers in the US market. Side question, how many variations are there in the 311 movement? Counter evidence: Go out to eBay and find the common applied number 311s. Auction: 294896263601 - Embossed 315462592167 - Embossed 304289559499 - Embossed And so on. These look like they are applied numbers but they are actually embossed - stamped numbers into the dial. Break open your case opener and try to put it underneath one of the numbers on the dial. You will find that these are actually stamped dials not applied numbers. The embossed dial is the common dial, not the applied. Applied numeral dials were the common practice of the Hamilton Watch Company. I have over 80 311s in my collection. Cary Hurt, Phil Welsh, Jeff Schuldenfrei and others have only seen embossed dials. This 14k 202 and the Platinum Aristocrat are the ones, so far, to have this particular applied number dial. There was a 228 in 14k that had a similar dial but it was a Frankenstein. Now, if you are sitting on a pile of these applied number dials, let’s make a deal!!!!! ________ The Ristside drivers watches he then shows, whilst having a highly curved case are not Curvex watches either as any knowledgeable Curvex enthusiast will tell you. It doesn't have a curved movement, either. Counter evidence: Present your documentation… If these are knowledgeable Curvex enthusiast saying things like this, they are not knowledgeable and are a part of the problem. They are spreading misinformation. One person states an opinion that then becomes part of a blog that then becomes stated fact. Unfortunately, they are completely incorrect. All Gruen Ristsides, except two, were Curvexes because they all had the 330 movement. (i’m referencing the first run of the Ristside in 1938). This can be seen in the 1938 Christmas mailer. The Ristside Varsity and its hooded lug variant are the only two non-Curvex Ristsides. I think they had the 400 movement in it, but I can’t remember right off the bat. The Curvex Ristside Lord, Admiral and so on, all had the 330 movement which made them a Curvex first and foremost. In the adverts they were called Curvex Ristside “Watch name”. That is easy to fact check. ________ I hope this clears up some of the misgivings from my talk. That was the last day of the Houston show and I was pretty tired. I have documentation that backs up what I talked about. If you have counter information, I would honestly love to see it so that we can figure out what is accurate. Regards Kyle R. Rogers