What you're seeing on the Dreamcast is a draw distance 10 times greater than that of the PS2, true 480p resolution, and many more cars and NPCs on the screen simultaneously, along with 3D models with more polygons, as they are the same as those from the PC version... obviously, the Dreamcast version is still poorly optimized, since development started less than a month ago. The goal of the video is not to ridicule the Dreamcast but to show that it is more than capable of running GTA 3. It's a shame that small-minded people think the video is meant to ridicule the Dreamcast, especially considering that this is my channel, where it's no secret to anyone that my all-time favorite console is the Dreamcast (Number 1), followed by the SNES (Number 2) and PlayStation 1 (Number 3) Anyway, the video is to show that even at the beginning of the development of the Dreamcast version, which is being done by fans and not Rockstar developers, the game already proves that GTA 3 would easily run on the Dreamcast and that it wasn't released due to commercial reasons, not because of a lack of capability. After all, anyone familiar with the Dreamcast knows that 98% of its games are in 480p, which demonstrates that the Dreamcast is powerful and that it died too soon to showcase its true potential!!! Even though the Dreamcast is my favorite console, I am impartial when it comes to all consoles... for example, among the 16-bit consoles, I prefer the SNES over the Sega Genesis, but the more I learn about the Genesis, the more I'm surprised by the things the Sega Genesis could do that the SNES couldn't... but it's hard to change my preference just like that, since I grew up playing the SNES. However, the Sega Genesis has my respect too, as it has great games and is a fantastic system. What I mean by all this is that, regardless of our preferences, we can look at things impartially without being swayed by passion. So, to those of you who are SEGA fanatics, stop saying that this video is meant to ridicule the Dreamcast...
@@n64fan60 Yes, I also find it sad to have to give this kind of response so that people can understand, but sometimes even that doesn't help... which is a shame, since documenting the early stages of development through a comparison with the PS2 version is also a tool where developers can look and see where improvements can be made, etc. It's worth noting that at 00:06 in the video, I make it very clear that the Dreamcast version is still in development and that it started less than a month ago.
@@JohnCharb87 Unfortunately, mistakes like this happen from time to time. In the previous video about Virtua Cop 2, if you check the hardware date, you'll notice that the PS2 is listed as 1998 instead of 2000. Sometimes I only notice mistakes like this after posting... and even if I notice them after rendering, it’s often not worth re-rendering due to the time it takes for the process.
I will say that the latest build runs MUCH better and is at least mostly on-par with the PS2s frame rate… we’re working on finishing the last bit of clipping this weekend, then another optimization pass, then, god willing, we can attempt the monster task of looking into the lighting.
@@luanalcolea629 Here? Actually... Yes. But it's not the CPU's fault! We weren't using it properly! It has special assembly instructions that allow you to do very important graphical calculations very efficiently, and we were not leveraging them at all, initially. The math has been accelerated using it much better, and it's doing pretty well now... Also another thing that made a huge difference is that we had to do an extra temporary copy of a bunch of vertices in RAM before we transferred them to the GPU, so that the CPU could clip them first... Anyway, the way we handled copying those duplicates as slow, and was copying only single bytes of each vertex at a time instead of 32-bit word sizes, so it was still a CPU bottleneck... but yeah, both have been optimized now... The real test of the SH4 CPU is about to be whether or not we can pull off the lighting calculations...
@@luanalcolea629 Luan, I believe that the problem is not the CPU, nor the polygons as was believed (until Shenmue 2 came out and now GTA 3 which seems to set an even higher level than Shenmue 2, previously considered "the absolute limit of DC") It seems to me that the difficulty is the 16 MB of RAM. But seen and considering that an ambitious open world game for the time (much more than Shenmue and Driver 2) runs on 1998 hardware, it seems to me that the limit has not yet been reached and with the heroic work of the programmers of this port It will be seen what a DC was capable of 🎮🙌🏻
No - the SH4 was actually a bit of a monster for it's time. Its RISC architecture competes and significantly outperforms in some ways contemporary Pentium processors with much higher raw clock speeds. System RAM at 16mb and a sound chip with no cache are the weaker points of an otherwise very elegant architecture and likely the pinch points. This is very early days and actually a port of the PC not the PS2 version. Optimising the SH4 and PVR combo will produce a GTA3 port that will probably run as good or slightly better than the retail PS2 release. The sauce is going to be slightly different and some flavours will be less defined and others a little stronger but Falco and co are Michelin star chefs.
PS2 имеет больше мощности, чем Dreamcast. Это связано с тем, что в Dreamcast используется CPU Hitachi SH4 и GPU PowerVR2, а в современных портативных устройствах CPU в разы мощнее. Поэтому Dreamcast все равно будет хуже по графике и фпс чем у ps2
@@maximlar236 нет,не ближе к второй)у дримки только видеопамяти больше чем в пс2,а в графической части и мощности процессора прям очень сильно сливает. Sony обосрались в количестве видеопамяти. Только и поэтому дримка выдает более четкое изображение(не надо так текстуры ужимать как на пс2)
i thought that was official VERY early build of gta 3 when they planed to do a dreamcast port but the console couldnt process it so that it could be just like ps2
For month this is quite a step on the Dreamcast. A traffic jam can be caused with all those vehicles present. Also seeing a plane in the sky during drive was pretty cool. Licensed vehicles names possibly as place holders. Chrysler 300m and BMW 5 Series...excuse me Mafia BMW 5 Series.
O port está ficando incrível!!! é muito cedo para comparar, são versões diferentes. No Dreamcast é basicamente a versão de PC! (Muito mais bonita por sinal) Excelente vídeo.
@@bizarroeddie1 Jajajajaaja En la parte superior de la pantalla dice "Dreamcast vs PlayStation 2" 0:15 Como que no te enteras que de cierta forma si es una "competencia"
@@bizarroeddie1 In fact, it's already outdated today, as the version used in the video is from August 14, and today is August 16... and today's version will already be outdated tomorrow, and so on. The difference between the August 14 version and today's version is that the August 14 version had less than 1 month of development, while today's version has 1 month of development. I think it's interesting to keep a record of the version with less than 1 month of development. Anyway, I was right not to compare the Half-Life DEMO on the Dreamcast with the final version of Half-Life on the PlayStation 2, as the DEMO of HALF-LIFE had its development halted, and only the PS2 version was completed. Obviously, if they had continued with the development of the Dreamcast version of Half-Life, the game would have turned out much better! So, if there's all this fuss, it means I was right not to compare them; after all, people would say it’s unfair to compare the Dreamcast demo with the commercial PS2 version.
This is ludicrous, the Dreamcast Port is barely an alpha that just started. I wouldn't be opposed after it is finished. But this is exactly why people get the wrong idea about stuff. This video is brought to you by Sony.
Youre lucky the failed Dreamcast version even had some comparison video with the PS2. Most people will only remember the winners, while the losers get some nostalgia tripping honkies.
Parabéns à equipe que está portando o jogo, pois comparado com outros jogos não-oficiais que foram lançados após a morte do Dreamcast, cuja maioria não atinge nem 10% das capacidades do videogame, esssa versão de Gta 3 está puxando os limites do aparelho, e tenho certeza de que terá muita coisa diferenciada para compensar alguma coisa que não puder ser portada do original...
@@flaviorpg-zeiro1133 isso é lenda, um dos devs comentou recentemente no Twitter que eles não fizeram mais do que alguns testes no Dreamcast. O jogo foi cancelado antes de qualquer coisa concreta ser feita. Não existe protótipo.
Love that you're showing off a fan-made labor of love. These folks truly do thankless work just for their love of whatever game they're a fan of, and get bashed so much for it not being optimized lol. You want it optimized? Offer to test it!
If the Dreamcast can handle GTA 3, also can handle many more games that were released on the gen like all Sonic games, VF4 (based on the PS2 port), GTA Vice city, outrun 2006, the Simpsons Hit and Run, Yakuza, bully, nfs Underground 2 and more. DC will never die. Saludos desde Argentina 🇦🇷👏🏻👏🏻 Excelente vídeo 👌🏻
1) The Dreamcast is more than dead, if it weren't, SEGA wouldn't have abandoned consoles production. 2) Fans are releasing ports and such, and that's why we say it's *"alive".* It's the equivalent of saying that the *PS2/PS3* and *PSVITA* are alive and will never *"die".* 3) Greetings from Colombia! 🇨🇴 (🤝).
Comprendo sua análise, você sempre respeitou o Dreamcast, no caso aqui, você está mostrando como em poucos dias, o Port já está avançando e em versão de PC, e claro, que após 100% vamos ver por aqui outra comparação entre os dois consoles!
Today is August 16, and the video version is from August 14... in other words, there is a new version every day, which shows that the progress on GTA 3 is happening very quickly! As you can see in the video itself, near the end you will see the Dreamcast version looking much better! This is because I decreased the draw distance instead of increasing it, among other improvements.
You mean the trails? Yes that was also an effect in PC port but you could turn it off. The Dreamcast version is being built from the PC port, so it actually has much higher render distance and even more geometry like clutter around the map and more fences and scaffolding on certain buildings that appear to be having work done. So it is a slightly more detailed map. However I plan on taking the OG Xbox 3d player models at least the mainline characters and port those over since that was made a few years after the PC version. So we can have an even better version than PS2 made for DC with higher quality character assets. I think it should be possible. Go look up PS2 vs OG Xbox comparisons of this game and it is night and day difference. OG Xbox also uses the PC map updates as well I believe. So really it was more of less the definitive edition before the crappy Unreal Engine remasters.
You can turn off the "trails" in the option menu on the Ps2. Sadly this affect the way the game processes the shading and everything looks more washed out. Gladly, they fixed this in Vice City.
I had to check if my youtube video settings were not set to 360p. Those Dreamcast transition screens, title card, and newspaper clip looked extremely pixelated. It seems it struggling with the frame rate, with no enviromental lightning and lower res textures (if you could believe it) than the Ps2 version. But is a work in progress, we will see how much they can achieve.
Yeah, the menu textures look like ass, because for now, we just ran every single asset through a hastily written, super-lossy compression algorithm to ge tit all fitting into VRAM... later on, we'll hand-tune which assets get which forms of compression, but right now, whatever, big fish to fry.
I think it's a bit early to compare, the Dreamcast port is only a month old, there's still a lot of progress to be made. But then again, it's funny to look back and remember that people said that GTA 3 would be impossible on the Dreamcast (even though there were games like GTA on the console) and now it's running a direct port of the PC version.
All of this makes me wonder if an old 3DS port (Not counting the New 3DS models) of GTA 3 is possible or atleast in a similar level to the Dreamcast port since the 3DS CPU may not be as powerful as the one in the PS2? A GTA 3 port for 3DS already exists but it’s only for the New 3DS due to it’s enhanced hardware that allow it to be possible. From my research, the Old 3DS’s ARM11 is actually to an extent should be better than the Dreamcast’s Hiachi SH-4. It has branch prediction, more parallelism within the pipeline, and Graphical tasks are solely handled in the 3DS GPU rather than the Dreamcast having the CPU and GPU both share graphical duties which puts overhead in general purpose computing. There’s also quite a huge difference between the 3DS and Dreamcast in terms of their CPU DMIPS: Dreamcast: 1.8 x 200MHz = 360 DMIPS 3DS: 1.25 x 268MHz + 1.25 80.4 = 435.5 DMIPS This is considering how the Old 3DS could use 30% of it’s 2nd core for application tasks. Not to mention the ARM11 has SIMD support so if leveraged properly. it could be useful for processing Physics/Collision/AI rather than utilized for GPU related tasks like the Hiachi. Although the SIMD instructions only operate with integers (So no Floating Point)
IMO, going after the PC version is a wrong choice. Getting the game running on the Dreamcast is already a miracle! It doesn’t need to be any more impressive than the PS2’s version. It feels like it’s more for the sake of saying ‘we made the impossible,’ instead of making a good enough port.
Aesthetics wise I think the PS2 version has the advantage over the PC version. PC version wasn't the best port and is missing some effects, though that is also due to the architecture of the PS2 not translating well to the PC.
@@PlumbDrumb Bullshit. It has a further draw distance, some higher quality textures, and at very least additional polygon complexity on buildings and stuff--what the DC is rendering in this video, in terms of raw polygon count, is greater than the what the PS2 is doing... I know, because I'm the guy pushing the polygons. lol.
@@FalcoGirgis Calm down, man! I’m just saying they don’t need to match the PC version’s draw distance or add more cars or anything. You don’t need the source code to cut stuff out.
OH. I think I misunderstood what you meant by "going after the PC version." I thought you meant that using that source code as the basis was a mistake as opposed to the PS2 code, which isn't open-source... Totally misunderstood. Apologies, been fighting with PS2 fanboys all night! Anyway, you know, now that you mention it, look at the end of the video where he adjusted the draw distance (which you can do yourself, it's the PC version!) down and even got that unoptimized piece of shit build from several days ago to somewhat keep up with the PS2! So like... I guess you guys can pick if you want further draw distance or steadier FPS as a benefit of the PC version... idgaf. lol.
Well, the video has shown that GTA 3 does indeed not run well on Dreamcast. Perhaps that's why it wasn't released + the fact that the console was discontinued before the game was released.
The port is still pretty buggy, but pretty impressive that it can pull it off with less RAM than the PS2. On the other hand, Dreamcast has a lot more VRAM. GTA is a complicated game, though.
The Ps2 version doesn´t use the "full" 32Megs of Ram, i have heard it only uses around 14 or 16 Megs. The resason seems to be that they needed to "reserve" enough memory for incoming new assets like cars, pedestrians, police, SWAT, police choppers and all the chaos that can be generated by the player in some unpredictable ways.
A question for all hardware enthusiasts: I wonder if an old 3DS port (Not counting the New 3DS models) of GTA 3 is possible or atleast in a similar level to the Dreamcast port since the 3DS CPU may not be as powerful as the one in the PS2? A GTA 3 port for 3DS already exists but it’s only for the New 3DS due to it’s enhanced hardware that allow it to be possible. From my research, the Old 3DS’s ARM11 is actually to an extent should be better than the Dreamcast’s Hiachi SH-4. It has branch prediction, more parallelism within the pipeline, and Graphical tasks are solely handled in the 3DS GPU rather than the Dreamcast having the CPU and GPU both share graphical duties which puts overhead in general purpose computing. There’s also quite a huge difference between the 3DS and Dreamcast in terms of their CPU DMIPS: Dreamcast: 1.8 x 200MHz = 360 DMIPS 3DS: 1.25 x 268MHz + 1.25 80.4 = 435.5 DMIPS This is considering how the Old 3DS could use 30% of it’s 2nd core for application tasks. Not to mention the ARM11 has SIMD support so if leveraged properly. it could be useful for processing Physics/Collision/AI rather than utilized for GPU related tasks like the Hiachi. Although the SIMD instructions only operate with integers (So no Floating Point)
Vamos analisar as Duas versões do gta: A versão do dreamcast: aparentemente o jogo esta mostrando sinal amarelo ou seja o jogo está rodando 20 ou 15fps possui umas texturas limpas porém está tendo alguns bugs gráficos e falhas de otimização (E só isso mesmo) Versão do ps2: Jogo está no padrão ps2 completo, porém existe uns pontos negativos nessa versão como quedas de fps e tbm possui alguns filtros borrados e alguns bugs Resumindo: O gta 3 que vai ser portado no dreamcast ainda não está concluído ainda existe muita coisa que precisa tipo: otimização, renderização de mapas, poligonos e etc, então vamos esperar esse port do gta 3 no dreamcast fique completo 100% com paciência
Acho VCdecide pegou momento errado pra comparar. Falo isso cada dia que passa sempre tem diversas versões nova. Alias, acho o GTA 3 de Dreamcast questão de visual, só vai ficar legal aqui 1 mês, quando resolverem todos os problemas graficos e ativarem os efeitos de luz dinâmica.
@@flaviorpg-zeiro1133 Sei que o GTA Vice City também teve o código vazado, pode ser o próximo. Só o do GTA San Andreas que ainda não, mas quem sabe até lá kk.
@@richardp1592Vice City no dreamcast até que seria interessante, já que esse jogo usar as Engines do gta 3 só que com algumas melhorias (Por isso que existe algumas coisas descartado do gta 3 no Vice city)
@@richardp1592 não tenho muita certeza disso, exceto que eles usam uma parte do mapa da Vice city em uma missão do San andreas (Tem poucas coisas relacionadas no vice City que foram descartado do San andreas)
This DC port even at this stage, looks very impressive - assets are present, and mostly rendered, game is definitely running, AI and sound is working. It has of course issues with early game dev problems but I really wish to see project being completed
es interesante lo rápido que avanza el proyecto, se que ya hay una beta mas reciente pero aun así me impresiona. ahora si para Dreamcast cambian los modelos por unos mas simples, bajan un poco la distancia de dibujado y la cantidad de vehículos podrían hasta hacerlo llegar a 30FPS estables. me pregunto como solventaran todos los errores gráficos que supongo son producto del jugar con la memoria ram y las texturas. la verdad esto ratifica que no hacer el port para Dreamcast fue mas una decisión económica que por otra razón, recordando que SEGA Anuncia la descontinuación de Dreamcast cundo ya tenían 8 millones de consolas en el mercado, si tan solo las finanzas de SEGA le hubieran permitido Resistir un año mas, tal vez solo tal vez habríamos visto este juego de forma oficial junto a Max Paynne además de un aumento en la venta de consolas, recordando que por esos años aun no estaba pirateada la PlayStation2. habríamos visto una Dreamcast alcanzar los números de MegaDrive/Genesis, N64 o tal vez los de SNES, por que de vivir hasta 2004 con el catalogo precio Dreamcast habría vendido mas que GameCube y Xbox seguro y bueno PS2 habría igualmente reinado pero en vez de ser un sistema de +126millones seria uno de 100, pero eso ya no fue. saludos
Dreamcast mostrou que poderia ter uma boa versão se produzido pela rockstar. Mas acredito que nao acompanharia o ps2 em framerate e efeitos de luz e particulas. Aidia era lenta e o coitado tinha pouca memória 😢
Dreamcast would never run this game properly, because the disc streaming speed of assets was really marginal on PS2- it only just worked. Dreamcast's GD ROM drive was much much slower. Today you can have hardware mods and run games off USB and the like, but the truth is it would never have worked running off an actual game disc. Whether Dreamcast also has enough RAM or disc space to avoid much lower quality texture assets and compressed audio etc is also questionable.
I'm the dev here doing the rendering and polygon pushing, and I just wanted to personally inform you that you have no idea WTF you're talking about... We literally have footage of a CDROM keeping up with it--which is slower than a GDROM--WITHOUT any real asset positional optimizations in terms of organizing things on disc... But YES. I'm sure you've gone ahead and have profiled and diligently calculated our required CDROM bandwidth after VQ compressing the textures and moving all of the shittily compressed triangle-list based assets to more efficient triangle-strips...
@@FalcoGirgis Prove it! You don't have the complete assets of the game implemented yet unlike the finished PS2 version. The original PS2 developer has said it could be a real issue for Dreamcast. I respect your work but I also respect the fact someone that literally designed technical aspects of the game on PS2 says this is potential issue and clearly in these current builds it is very much there. If you say this game runs at parity to PS2 including the streaming without half the screen displaying low res textures and missing assets then I will wait to see it. Because theoretical performance and running it off solid state storage is not evidence.
@@pgr3290 .......did I *ever* say it ran on parity with PS2? Clearly, at this point in time, it does not (although yes, it is pushing more polys, lololol), and I have refrained from saying anything other than "I will try my hardest," because I'm not an idiot... What are you even talking about? Where are you getting this BS?
@@FalcoGirgis If you say this game runs on Dreamcast off the disc and streaming isn't an issue then you qualify it can only do that without parity to PS2? I guess that defines my point. I'm impressed it runs at all but the argument was in order to get the 'true' GTA3 experience everything needs to stream at a playable rate without the game breaking down: textures, tris, traffic, sound, radio stations etc. If Dreamcast can't actually deliver all that off the disc then ok. I'm not up at night crying about it. But it would prove doubters correct about disc read speed being a genuine technical limitation to a full retail release.
Wow! Amazing news regards Dreamcast! I used to love play on my Dreamcast years ago when I was a kid. So sad it "didnt make the cut" with Sega, like the rest of the consoles did back then in the early 2000's. It would've been so cool to see how Dreamcast would've been today against Playstation, Nintendo and Xbox.
Rewatched the video. The driving controls on Dreamcast are all done on the D-Pad. Even accelerating and decelerating. Start is the enter and exit. Quite different say to least. Use to the PS2's D-Pad X and square set up. Interested if this was a testing of vehicle performance.
@@FalcoGirgis e sobre o PSP, eu sei que você é dev do DreamCast e não tem nada a ver com o PSP, mas poderia me dizer o que você acha sobre um port dessa versão de PC no DreamCast também no PSP ? Acha que o PSP tem capacidade pra rodar essa versão? Eu sei que o PSP tem seus GTA's, mas sempre tive dúvida se o GTA 3 e Vice City poderiam rodar no PSP.
para solo tener un mes de desarrollo está muy bien, bastante, y sé muy bien que la dreamcast es capaz de moverlo porque no es tanta la diferencia de potencia, solo hay que esperar que lo optimicen bien
It would be silly to think the Dreamcast, a machine much easier to develop for, couldn't run an early PS2 game back when devs struggled in optimizing stuff for the most difficult machine to develop for in that gen. Mid/Late gen PS2 games, especially those that needed bigger disc sizes, and especially when devs finally figured out the PS2's true capacities, however, are another story. I don't expect the Dreamcast to be able to run GTA San Andreas, but honestly, I do think it could be perfectly capable of running GTA Vice City. Nonetheless, great video! Although I do agree that it was best if we waited for a much more polished and optimized build for GTA3DC.
One thing I think I have seen some lose sight on is that GTA III on Dreamcast is being worked on by a really small team of coders who in some cases, don't do this as their primary job and on a console which wasn't factored into the requirements to run this game in 2001. Also, the game isn't being built using Shinobi / Katana Dev environments, it's 3rd party tooling which, up to this point, wasn't the best way to get the performance out of the Dreamcast. What we can hopefully lay to bed in time is the Dreamcast being able to hand deeper 6th gen releases and the 'what if' nature of an alternative reality. I personally always saw the Dreamcast as an equal at the 6th generation table and I hope this project will change the mind of others that thought likewise, it's fine to disagree but even if you think the DC was the 'bridge gap' between the PS-one / N64 to PS2, you've got to admit, this is impressive work.
