Im a Guatemalan and I am going to be honest. Whoever is saying it’s a place only for the “ultra-rich” is either a liar or super salty. Fact is everybody from middle-low class to the high class live and frequent the site. Admittedly Cayala does have some housing neitherby which is pretty much inaccesible for the average Guatemalan, but the comercial place is very accessible. Unless you are a beggar or homeless. The most valid criticism is that the development was made on a forest. But it was a private land, so it’s really a matter of property rights.
De hecho era un terreno desolado sin muchos arboles. El core del bosque está en el barranco y sigue ahí. Aunque es cierto que ya han hecho un par de proyectos cerca que están destruyendo ese bosque pero estos proyectos no son parte como tal de cayala ni de sus desarrolladores. (Aunque su nombre tenga “cayala”) pero estos pasan desapercibidos por que todo el populismo y resentimiento cae solo en “ciudad cayala”
I'm a foreigner living in Guatemala and this is why I have always been confused about the outrage over Cayalá. Whenever I am there on the weekends, it seems to be full of everyday Guatemalans who want a safe place to hang out and walk around. I don't just see rich people walking around and I don't see too many foreigners like myself.
Im Guatemalan, that place used to be the biggest forest in the city, is gone. What´s left it´s gonna disappear with the new expansion. Is basically a huge shopping center sorrounded by expensive houses and apartments, terrible traffic, no public transportation, it´s a nightmare for poor workers to get there. At night it´s full, but you can also see some drunk underage rich and middle income teenagers. It´s a lot of fun if you have money, just like everywhere else.
@@vinigomez598 No solo Cayalá, también las demás zonas y los asentamientos han Sido originalmente bosques, incluso hubo colinas que fueron consumidas para extraer material para la construcción. Técnicamente la casa dónde estamos en algún momento fue bosque, no es que sea asunto solo de Cayalá.
@@vinigomez598 I see it differently. Most developments on previously unbuilt land do impact plants. But, If you compare Cayala with basically any development in Guatemala, it did leave much more plants and built more beautiful parks and gardens. The site even includes a well kept ecological reserve. In other words, I find the comments unfair. Saying there were trees and other plants where you now have buildings, doesn’t mean they were irresponsible when compared with the standard, even more, when you compare it with other developments in Guatemala.
You better watch out. Most of them are not only foreigners, but infiltrators, agents, and scoundrels. Learn from the past. Learn from history. Saludos desde 🇲🇽Kamarada
It's Disneyland. Disappointed with the scale of parking too. But it proves that great urbanism can still be built. And while highrises don't fit that particular esthetic, in big growing cities they should not be excluded. There are ways to make them work. Gated communities are a sign of societal failure. It's a high price to pay to support a system where the few have all the wealth.
Since they are on a hill, high rises should be avoided and built downwards, along the edge of the mountain / hill… use elevators & escalators to move people up / down There are ways to do more urbanization, without losing the esthetic. If the wealthy design it, it provides income to the other people who build & sustain it. The wealth is decentralized through such projects. People who work gain dignity. Crime decreases since everyone is a part of the solution.
and that’s true, in Guatemala there’s an incredible wealth gap between the middle class, the poor and the rich, Cayalá is made as it is to avoid poor people getting there, there’s no public transportation that takes you there, the only way to get there is a taxi or a personal vehicle, And the panorama is also very segregated, from one side you have a gated community with houses that vary from $2 million-$4 million and in front of it, a neighborhood that does not have even water and it’s mostly poor.
@@DavidHalko most people who live there are American immigrants, Guatemalan congressman who are probably accused and have ties with drug dealing and some Guatemalans that are part of the elite
@@DavidHalko Saludos, en ciudad Guatemala en los últimos cinco años se han construido más de 125 nuevos edificios más de cien para apartamentos y el resto para oficinas y clínicas médicas, en 2019 fue reconocida por segunda vez como la más verde de iberoamérica con sus más de 300 parques, es la ciudad más poblada, moderna y cosmopolita de centroamérica en la actualidad.
What's behind you, what you named the edge of Cayalá, is indeed privately owned land, just like the land over which Cayalá was built in. Even though it doesn't seem like a gated community, it is to a high degree. Only the Paseo Cayalá area, which is basically a big exterior mall, is open to the public from 11:00 am to 10:00 pm. The reason it is a relatively safe place to hang out in comparison to other places, is because there is alot of private security and quick response assistance from the government police due to the political and economic influence the owners of the place have, and because of the touristic importance of the location. It is a place worth visiting.
Not perfect, nothing is, but what's encouraging about this example is that it's simply a throwback to a time when cities were designed for people instead of cars. Turns out, humans are pretty good at building cities! One flaw I see is that they compromised with cars and made it an elite destination...it's private. The Edenicity channel here on RU-vid explains a lot of the "why" questions in this video...like "why is there no crime" and "why is it so quiet even with so many people?"
@@falsificationism well, I'll try and answer you with another question (or 2) - why isn't this suburb built in either a modern style or to reflect those native cities? Why the classical colonial style of the old Spanish imperialists and why didn't the film maker notice the homage to Spain, and not to America?
normally, the master planner and government would run competitions for the design of separate areas or buildings, which ensures a mix of styles, but I don't think Krier has allowed this to happen .... classical colonial styles are a reflection of power and ambition - the architecture shows the population who 'won' those wars of conquest ... and the upwardly mobile couples who are the perfect looking inhabitants from the adverts probably feel safest in Spanish style buildings - I thought we are supposed to be anti-imperialist now? The programme maker didn't question the style or what it represents or in fact 'means', so there are unexplored depths missing from the film IMO.
I understand the argument that it is not a real city, and it is true, urbanistically speaking it is more of a private neighborhood with semi-public spaces. However, I do not see it as something negative, it is true that it will not have the real dynamics of a city, due to the excessive control that a private development and administration has. It shows that at least in the aesthetic aspect and spatial distribution it can be developed as if it were something more natural and organic. Another developer and architects could have made a large closed mall with a couple of office towers, residences and a hotel, but they decided to give it a more human aspect and distribute those functions in small buildings in a set of many blocks and boulevards, plazas, and that is worth it. Trying to reincorporate the concept of mixed-use zoning and pedestrians.
I lived in Guatemala for a couple of years back a while ago. Cayala represent something for the top 2% of Guatemala (my estimates) and Americans. No average Guatemala family will go there and pay American prices for stuff they dont need. It is like going to Disney World and saying it represents the USA
Not true, I’m middle class and i can aford that, many can aford it, there’s more than 10% of Guatemalan who can live there but majority prefer something outside of Guatemala City due to the heavy traffic, you probably went to the poor areas of Guatemala.
This is not true. I live in Guatemala City, and whenever I go to Cayalá on the weekends, I don't just see rich people there. I see a lot of Guatemalans walking around with their families and just trying to enjoy a safe space.
As a native Hoosier, I'm glad to see so many references to Indiana mentioned in this design. Notre Dame & South Bend, IN are not far from my house. Go Fighting Irish!
Where are the trees? In a place like Guatemala you would think a new development would incorporate tree cover to reduce temperatures. Those boulevards are wide enough to have trees down the middle or lining the sides.
Well, under the city is a huge parking garage, so big trees will be a big problem with their roots going into concrete. They have a large open park with trees and a lot of gardens, but that's the trade-off to keep cars out of the city.
its more like an entertainment district, the original shopping mall didn't succeeded much so the focus shifted towards food and entertainment, some stores still operate there but most people go to eat, relax and have some fun. Despite the appearances, its quite affordable to spend a nice time there.
what do expect, Guatemala is like New York just don't go to towns like. Esquipulas , El Quiche but if you wanted the real experience then I said give them a try.
Beautiful City indeed. I wish you the best guatemalans. Keep building like this amazing zone in all over your country. I know you can do it! Best wishes!!
beautiful. Obviously designed for middle and upper class folks, and the security is probably a necessity if conditions are like Mexico City, where many families have bodyguards. Still, this is a huge step in the right direction of building better cities. I disagree about the high rises - some people love living in them and they are way more sustainable energy-wise (density).
Definitely. High rises are the alternative to sprawl and are the only way to have walkable neighborhoods without the homes being tiny. High rises are only a bad idea in quake zones.
@@cjstanley1 High rises tend to do a lot worse than mid rises in terms of energy use per unit. Tough this place seems to be on the low end for a city environment anyway.
Cayalá es una residencial privada con un área semi pública con guardias vigilando que no te desvies de la zona permitida. No es una ciudad es una zona residencial privada con una calle peatonal convertida en un Centro Comercial al aire libre con comercio mayoritariamente de alta gama accesible solo para la clase media alta que representan menos del 10% de la población.
The primary difference here is between the government and the private sector. What governments fail to accomplish the private sector is typically willing to take over and improve.
The key to this magnificent construction is that the architects studied at Notre Dame. It is the dream of architects who want to preserve humanity and the art of architecture in urban planning is to study at Notre Dame. The place is beautiful.
Great senses, Ive lived both in Guatemala City and Los Ángeles and Cayala is like Rodeo Drive (and a smaller Westwood, UCLA type hood) but what also makes it exciting for us Guatemalans is that the concept is being copied (though to a smaller scale) in other areas in Guatemala like Rethalueu and Juan Gaviota in the Pacific, Rio Dulce in the Caribbean side and in the highlands and eastern mountains such as Xela, Huehue, Coban and Chiquimula. The high rises are not the best news but it also means more affordable housing to more middle and lower income Guatemalans (see Irvine and Rancho Santa Margarita developments in California) So Cayala its not an end in itself, it will never be perfect, can be improved and made more accessible to more people as time goes, which for middle income countries is already a win win. Loved your great vibes, enthusiasm and great knowledge about this subjets and sharing with us. Blessings and greetings! 🙏👋🩵🇬🇹
It is not, it is a private development. Their solid waste ends up in a landfill -where it's only a problem for the people that live near it- and it's wastewater ends up polluting the river nearby. That's just my dear Guatemala's extreme inequality for you. Where poor people end up paying when the rich won't take responsibility.
@@user-fg5zh1ri7h Y lo peor de todo es que el ministerio público ha tenido más de 3000 casos relacionados al medio ambiente y la mayor parte de los han descartado, mi bella Guatemala, desigual para los nativos
Hi Ricky. First and foremost, thank you for a well done research about Cayala. Just a little thing more to add up, Cayala is where the kids of the upper middle class Guatemalans live; as well as, 25 % international people. Furthermore, I have to agree with you about no Solar panels, but it's a reason why....(To preserve the look of the city)
So it's a huge gated community with a fancy lifestyle center attached. Disappointing, but what you'd expect. You should go see Cul de Sac in Phoenix too.
It is exactly that, a gated city for the oligarchs. It doesn’t have a gate but they don’t need it when most people are brainwashed to adore the wealthy.
Saying its “gated” is disingenuous. The commercial part is super accessible. What it is gated are the residencial areas. Which if you’d dig you’d find almost every residencial space is gated.
@@danielcristianescobar8157 The commercial part of cayala is only accessible if you have a car, there’s no public transportation that takes you there, that’s a way to segregate the poor people from the rich
It's a beautiful place, but it is very obviously for expats. The Guatemalans you see in the community are there to work for the owners. They are invited in to participate in the events and then they are essentially escorted out until they come back to work the next day. The average Guatemalan can't afford to live in the community, just work for those who do. And it is definitely a gated community. If you want to experience Guatemala, this is NOT the place to do it.
The taller building being built is a great idea ... the density brings more tax and more people for the businesses and also potential for locations for mass transit stations out of city busses etc.
I’ve looked into this before. It’s basically a lifestyle center surrounded by expensive housing around it. Only the towncenter is public. There’s no room for expansion so it was never meant to be a real city. The rich people in Guatemala just wanted a walkable safe area to live so they built this. 0/10 from me. Revamp the actual downtown areas and bring jobs and reduce corruption. Then you’re actually doing something good
xD. Yeah... the rich have places to walk that's not Cayala my guy hahahaa. If you ever actually go, you will see the people that go and spend their sundays there. Picnicking and just chilling with family
It looks very neat and impressive. There are a lot of good things about it. Too bad it's so small and doesn't have much space to expand. It's a bit like an island in the city. However, I hope other cities can take inspiration from this, by taking the best parts of it, and improving on it.
Look into how much of a city's 'public spaces' are actually private and you will start to see that you can apply the 'not what it seems' moniker to a lot of cities. London has huge spaces that seem public but are private corporations properties, from the obvious Canary Wharf to Battersea to all along both sides of the Thames, including around Tower Bridge that you wouldn't know was private land until you test the security.
Welcome! You seem to have visited Paseo Cayalá in Cuidad Cayalá. There are other neighboring "plazas" such as Cardales (where McDonalds is) and Varietá, and expanding like Nogales. The planning is insane
Its beautiful but its very European no real Mayan architecture bummer. They are trying to create a place of pretentious prestige in the city for visitors and the rich. Its mass development/gentrification/segregation/ classism. Doesn't look or feel like you are in Guatemala kina feels very artificial like a redeveloped downtown area with shopping stores LOL. This is Guatemalas solution??? I feel for the people of Guatemala this doesnt really benefit most Guatemalans its just shows a gross division in rich and poor. This is corruption right in your face!!!!
I'm disturbed by the fact that's it has become a sort of private gated city, but I don't have any issues with high rise apartments being built to make it a more efficient use of lane rather than them having to build out into a sprawl.
it's not a gated place. The mall part is open to anyone and everyone, the gated part is just where the people actually live, which is gated mainly for security reasons.
I thought Guatemala and South and central Americans had contempt for colonial architecture, because well, colonization. I’d have no problem if it was just admitted that colonial architecture is appealing, civilized and works well. This looks like a clean Valencia Spain. Great video. Thanks
We could take it a step forward and acknowledge that what is labeled as “colonial architecture” : is found natively, on all continents and is/was created by an earlier human civilization, that existed just until 1800. And had global influence & now lost tools and techniques for creating masterful symmetry and proportion seen in all old stone buildings around the world. Supporting this new understanding, besides old photographs, is the too quick to be true , unrealistic, construction times given (to all this intricate lasting beauty) in our basic school history. The old story doesn’t add up. But we’re surely living a new version of it, becoming aware of our true past. Namaste 🙏
Interesting take about sky scrapers. I would like to learn more about your opinion of them. Regardless, thank you for pointing out the Disneyland astroturfing here. It isn't to much to ask that they set aside 1/3 the residents to median household income and keeping the standard family housing. In mixed use sky scrapers or not. Regardless parking and utilities beneath the neighborhood is slick and has tons of benefits. The absence of overhead lines is great to see. I would love to see that in our cities in the US.
I wish usa development put even a fraction of care, planning, thoughtfulness, and architecture into new developments. For a planned development this is quite remarkable
Hello everyone, Guatemalan here. Sadly, paseo Cayalá is not as much a city as it is a mall with a idillic european city aesthetic and luxury flats for the ultra rich. It has been controversial from the start It cannot be a good example of city development because it is not a public space. It projects the illusion of a third space but it's not at all that. It's just an open mall where if you aren't a customer, you might as well be undesirable. This isn't an achievement of public infrastructure and management, it just puts on the forefront the gaping inequality in which we live in Guatemala. You can actually take photos of the "la limonada" slum with Cayalá city in the background. It is environmentally unsustainable too, being developed in a formerly forested area of Guatemala City. Their solid wasta is also sent to the municipal landfill and most of it's wastewater ends in the rio Contreras.
@@Rachel-ct3jc hello friend. No, I'd rather not live in poverty thank you. I'm just saying that the existence of Cayalá won't take anyone out of poverty
Another great city to look at is Carmel, Indiana. It’s considered one of the best cities in the US to live. The architects that designed Cayala are also out of Indiana.
@@TwoBitDaVinci I tried to send a link, but I think RU-vid removed it. Check out the short documentary “This is the Best Designed Suburb in America.” The city was developed using tax increment financing
Some of the criticisms of this development seem legitimate, but it is a shame that anytime a new and innovative project is created, it is met with a wave of cynical, unrealistic, and nitpicking reactions. No, Cayala doesn’t solve all the deep-rooted problems of Guatemala and ‘ the Third World’, but I’m glad to see that Guatemala can have nice things, too. Economic and societal changes that would improve the lives of the poor in Guatemala are more critical than developments like Cayala, but that shouldn’t eliminate the possibility for good projects from going forward. It seems like people equate knee jerk criticism with virtue and sophistication.
Not sure where you guys are from, but here in NZ, we've had those 3 kinds of recycled bins for decades now. No car cities are fantastic, that's been the case for Melbourne city in Australia for years and why it often gets voted one of the top cities in the world.
Looks like a city within a city. Kind of like the suburb I live in, where they decided to build a city within the suburb. I'd like to move to the country. 😂
live in guatemala, here thinks private don't get build half way, and yes, they build fast and the standards are high since this country is in the ring of fire and quakes are usual, so they build things to stand the quakes;
Interesting! You should make a part 2 comparing this project with the utopist urban projects of the late 19th century in England and North America (Garden Cities etc), including who they were intended to.
Still waiting for the dark side, because all you did was blow sunshine the whole video. Even when you were pointing out the obvious gentrification. They must have paid for your flight and hotel.
It is not a city. It is a shopping center. a very large mall. It is not urban development. It's just a real estate project. The real city does not see its problems solved with this type of projects. in fact it increases them: more traffic and less green areas. It's just a real estate bubble, many apartments are empty and many suspicious things happen in that place, meaning money laundering.
@@hughporter2541Guatemala City has some of the worsts traffic problems in the world. Cayalá, doesn’t really have “roads” inside it because it’s a really small area. And despite taking care of their adjacent roads, there’s also heavy traffic around the area, specially in peak hours. I study in a university near Cayalá and I have to drive there daily.
@@hughporter2541 it's not a city, it's a shopping mall. and in fact there are many cars there, in an underground parking lot that covers the entire area.
For me the biggest catch is that it doesn't feel like a real European city as it was intended. Mostly because the lack of public transport, the big residential area that is closed to the public, but mainly the lack of mixed housing in the residential area with most of the buildings being just a facade with no apartments inside.
It’s simply a private resort villa made of mixed used buildings instead of residential top and commercial bottoms they just made arrangement horizontal, sort of like Disney downtown with condos next to it. The failure is gating of the residential area. Prob more due to ego than security.
You mentioned the use of solar and a focus on EVs. I agree, but I think this would've been even more interesting if the homes and businesses were constructed with biomaterials, such as mass timber, strawbale, hemp, rammed earth, bamboo, etc. Also, since you mentioned solar, and this is a planned development, I think the AC and hot water should be sourced from ground-source heat pumps.
An “urbanist” city that’s only for rich people and tourists isn’t a real city-it’s a theme park. Urbanism that doesn’t include all classes of people just doesn’t interest me at all, they already had that under New Urbanism.
Perhaps the designer quit because he couldn't reconcile the polarised class-divide in Latin American countries with that in European ones, it's huge. The average Guatemalan family likely couldn't afford to eat there, let alone live there. Imagine believing you're building a city for a future, equitable society only to realise you're building a rich kids play park. He would have been better off re-developing existing cities with modern concepts to lift the middle-class in strategic areas.
Yes but the corrupt rich family was funding it. So he had no say. He thought they were going to bring lower classes in aka (he was lied to) thats why he quit. Imagine the whole time thinking you can bring lower classes in and uplift those that have less yet the whole time its going to be only for the uber wealthy.
i am pretty sure that the original master planner left because of funding problems. Despite appearances to the contrary, the initial phase of development had serious funding problems and was on the brink o a mayor collapse, the management was changed and banks intervened to keep the project going on. Maybe that's why the 3 story building were ditched in favor of high raises (not really very high), and maybe that caused Leon Krier to leave. Still the place is gorgeous and its a very pleasant place to spend some time.
Luxury high rise buildings can benefit local communities as they take less footprint and can allow more traditional housing and mixed use buildings in the rest of the community. Local businesses can also benefit from the wealthier clientele brought in by the luxury apartments.
Saludos cordiales, este proyecto está dirigido hacia la clase media alta, un compañero de estudios que vendió agua en garrafones de casa en casa, su familia en los ochentas inició un negocio de fabricación de muebles, este creció mucho con los años y actualmente viven en este proyecto residencial, igualmente una prima que es profesional universitaria al igual que su pareja igualmente viven ahí.
In the area where Cayala is built upon, it is very susceptible to droughts. It is theorized that they steal A LOT of water from the nearby colonies/housing areas through the municipality (the authorities that are in charge of taking care of the city) which is known to be very much so corrupt, leaving people without water.
The skyscraper comment should be its own episode. With partnerships with some other scientist; social engineer, ecologist,biolist et... Might touch a nerve on the unresponsible reproducers in the world but do we want more and more people to be smooshed into smaller and smaller spaces? Or do we want to have more reasonable sustainable smaller secure communities? Whats the environmetal impact of a skyscraper does it really take up less space when you consider sewer waste and garbage waste that has to come out of the building and go somewhere else? And the energy it takes to run it how much land use is actually used on that? Not to mention the lack of unique culture in such places. Or is it the opposite if you get a good design it can be rich in culture and more sustainable? Of course the limiting factor will again probably be money so only the rich can afford a good skyscraper designed with wellbeing and unique culture of people in mind.
It's a nice try, at least, but it has a Disneyland feel, inorganic and seems like a Lifestyle Center Mall 2.0. Probably not many Mom and Pop stores there, and just corporate giants renting storefronts or well connected families opening up bars/restaurants.
There is many for hard working professionals Guatemala’s or for those outside the country and are returning there for the last years of their life after years of hard working in USA or Europe
Such a misleading title! 95% of the video discusses how they nailed everything and how amazing it is and to come visit. 5% just covers how it's like your typical gated community and God forbid they build a high-rise building and FINISH it. Nothing "DARK" here at all.
Underground utilities, no cars/trucks, and void of homeless makes this planned city look idyllic. Hopefully, it includes a housing section for upper middle class and not only upper class. I have no problem that this planned city has no housing for low income people. It’s similar to Disneyland where there are no hotels for low income people.
