Lance, your timing is impeccable. I was just wondering which hand grinder I should obsessively window shop for and never buy and this really narrowed it down 😎
Just bought a 1Zpresso X-Pro (yeah that's new) and I really, really love. It has the external adjustment system, 40mm heptagonal burrs (similar to the Q2) with 12.5 microns per click and costs only 150€/$. It is crazy how much value you get out of it. Compared to the K Max (300$), it falls only short on grinding time and capacity, when talking about specs. I recommend looking into it, if you don't want to spend 250+ $/€.
Wow, what an honor for 1zpresso to have Lance select the K Plus as the best overall hand grinder! I have the JE Plus and before opting for this model, I deliberated over the J and K series for a long time. It seems the JE Plus is not as popular as the K series, as the former is not as versatile (the makers suggest JE Plus is more suited for espresso). However, I recently compared brewing aeropress with the JE Plus vs Timemore Chestnut C2. The coffee with JE Plus had a lot more flavor, more depth, and was nuttier. I don't think you can go wrong with any 1zpresso hand grinder.
"I'm insane." Yup, I watched the entire thing (in one sitting). Thanks for that! What I like about the OG is that it's calibrated and produces grinds based on MICRONS. It drives me nuts that the coffee world is still using subjective terms (fine, med-fine, coarse) and proprietary "clicks". We ought to be able to provide micron ranges for various types of coffees. Yes, there's uneven grind size, especially in lower-end grinders and there are varying amounts of fines and chaff, but we ought to be able to have a standard measurement. Oh, wait, that would be MICRONS.
I absolutely agree with this. The industry using words like "medium" is driving me nuts, this is so subjective. I am sure medium to me does not look like medium to someone else. 1. Can anyone explain to me how the Lido OG is different from say a 1zpresso K series (I own a k series) from a "grinding in terms of microns" point of view? From the video, other than the clicks being labeled in micros there does not sound like a big difference in terms of measuring/grinding in microns. It is my understanding that the conical burr for most hand grinders moves up or down when you change the setting. This sounds the same as the Lido OG to me. Assuming both are calibrated at 0 with the burrs touching. The OG would be 1125 microns when the k-series is 50 clicks (22.5 microns * 50). 2. What is the burr gap Lance mentioned? I am thinking when calibrating the grinder if I have both burrs touching that would be 0 microns.
So, most companies assume perfect alignment when discussing micron movement. "Burr gap" assumes said perfection. But, none are perfect and few, even if aligned down to .o2mm from the factory, don't keep alignment after being cleaned. So, the measurement is one given to cover the burr gap, but since alignment is an issue, saying 30micron burr gap is wrong because likely one side is a bit more and one a bit less. This makes boulders out of one side more prevalent and fines out the other. Measuring vertical movement is more objective because you aren't assuming alignment. Just measuring the literal movement along an axis.
@@LanceHedrick Where I am coming from is don't that all grinders measure in terms of vertical movement 1 way or another. eg. Lido OG = 1125 microns K-series = 50 * 22.5 microns = 1125 microns C40 = 75 clicks (with red clicks) * 15 microns = 1125 microns Burr gap would exist in the Lido OG as well isn't it? Unless it comes from factory calibrated based on the microns adjustments and accounting for the burr gap. But the burr gap be misaligned if you took it apart for cleaning? So effectively after you have zeroed all grinders, the micron would really be: said vertical movement + burr gap (whatever that may be)? I looked on google but couldn't find much discussion on burr gap on hand grinders so pardon the many questions. Might be something I am not understanding correct. Thank you for the great information and you definitely earned a place on patron. Cheers.
Hey! I understand the confusion. So, the burr is fixed on the axel on the Lido and the collar doesn't move. So, they are aligned even after deconstruction. The others are rough guesses of movement based on aperture and thread pitch. You know what would be easier than typing this out? (Not to sound curt- it is 5am here and I still haven't slept haha!) Orphan espresso has a video discussing this. Will post in follow up comment
Thanks for going to the effort of doing this. I got a 1ZPresso whilst waiting for my electric grinder for espresso. Hard work on some beans, but gets the job done. Sure made me appreciate my electric grinder when it arrived. I am intending to learn pour-over later (mostly for travel), but for now I am enjoying refining my already wonderful foamy lattes with a Flair58.
I got the K Plus over 6 months ago and I always felt it has been an extremely underrated grinder. After watching this video I feel like I made a good choice getting it. Awesome video as usual
For you all insane nerdy people like me, k series have an increase/decrease in particle size of ~9.68um per click (yep, I'm talking about particle size, not burrs gap) Burrs gap is 22.5um for K series. And from my tests, Comandante C40 translates to the K series at 1:3.1 ratio I.e. 30 clicks on Comandante translates to K series as 30x3.1 = 93 clicks (number 9 and 3 clicks) Comandante particle size change is 30um per click (default mechanism) Even at equivalent settings, I find the C40 producing a more acidic cup. K is tastier, more neutral and balanced overall, presenting acidity & sweetness in a better way. 1Zpresso is literally knocking the ball out of the park with the K series. Awesome hardware 👍
At this time, I have almost zero interest in hand grinders but the sheer amount of effort, time, and passion invested into this video is undeniably admirable. I have a bit of an idea on what it takes, and so *I'm here to watch and support* ! And shoo the haters away! 🏓 (pretend that is a fly swatter)
Thanks Lance. Love this video. I purchased a K Plus a few months back after doing loads of internet research. So it’s very pleasing to see you give it the big thumbs up 😀. Initially I was using it for espresso and Americano (ie diluted espresso). I recently tried it for filter and was blown away by the clarity and sweetness, much better than the americano I had been drinking. Do you mind sharing what grind settings you were using for espresso and filter on the K Plus? Just curious.
@@tubacorbin On my K+ I use between 2.5-3.5 for espresso, 4-5 for aeropress and flat bottom pourovers, 5-6 for V60/hario switch/chemex, and 6-8 for large shared chemex brews and french press. I never find myself having to go past a full rotation so it’s easy to keep track of where you are, and I also find myself grinding quite a bit finer than the recommendations in the 1zpresso instructions.
@@benf340 Thank you for this! For the longest time, I hung around 6.5-7.5 for Kono and Origami (12/200 recipe) because that's the range I saw Rogue Wave using. The last week or so I dropped down to around 6 and it's been much better and more consistent for me. I think I might be able to push even finer it seems.
FYI - The Normcore does have a magnet inside but in some instances the magnet it upside down so you need to get something in there to pull it out. I have the grinder and there are no issues with it falling off at all
Nice! Regardless, the out of box experience for me was as shown in the video. I don't think the onus should be on the consumer to locate and fidget with something like that, you know? Even still, the rest of the experience was sub par. Good for its price? Sure. But not as impressive as I've heard people make it out to be.
There are two gaskets that come with the Kingrinder. The black one that keeps the cap on is used for a power drill. There is a white smaller one that you put on, instead of the black one, to keep the plastic cap attached to the handle when not using the power drill.
I got mine from aliexpress. I'm not sure I had that come with it. The grinder arrived in less than appealing packaging with Like nothing inside lol. Should've gotten it from Prima
@@LanceHedrick I confirm that you were suppose to get a small white gasket to hold the handle on the cap/cover 😉 ! In fact, I found easier on workflow to feed the grinder with beans to get rid of the black gasket around the plastic-cover and to fix the handle to the cover with the white gasket. The handle attached to the cover remain in place fairly strong enough without the black gasket and it made much easier and quicker to remove the cover/lid without the black gasket by just lifting the handle to add beans to the grinder (I never had issue with the handle slipping off the chaff without the black gasket around the lid). For the price paid for the K6, for me it's the best value and a bang for the bucks 🙃
I also got from alixpress and it came with the white gasket that holds the cap firmly in place. Actually, I left both of them, white and black, since it’s very secure. For the price, it’s unbeatable.
incredibly helpful and exhaustive. Thanks for shining some light in this huge, dark, confusing cave. Don't apologize for the length! The subject demanded it.
I’ve got the 1Zpresso JE-Plus, which I think has a similar Italmill burr to the Kinu M47. I love the grinder for espresso and it can make good pour over (perhaps similar to the Kinu). Loved the long video, I must be insane like all the other commenters.
Yeah! Correct. I will say, the kinu is just a bit better out of factory because they have a bit tighter tolerances. I have noticed it does espresso marginally better and the filter is a decent amount better from it. But nothing major!
FWIW on the Kinu, the anti-slip 'nose' piece is much more comfortable if you wrap your index finger round it rather than letting it dig into your thumb. Also you mentioned it had one of the best burr alignments but with mine at least, the burr is slightly lose on the shaft which I fixed with one layer of Cellotape wrapped round the shaft. One layer of Cellotape is around 30 microns! 🤷♂️
Damn! One of the most in depth reviews I’ve ever seen!! Just insane, this content is incredible, well done Lance, your a true legend in the coffee game 👍🏻
I use the kingrinder k6. Thing is just robust for what you pay. One con is the rubber grip gets loose in about a couple of months. Mine gets used around 2-3 times a day and nothing is still rattling after dropping it a couple of times. Feels like it will last forever. The k series is the better overall grinder if you want to spend more.
I'm glad you confirmed my thoughts on the 1zpresso K-Max! I love the combination of cup quality with fantastic build and ergonomics (especially the external adjustment and magnetic catch cup).
Hey, Lance. Thanks for the video! The kingrinder k6 also come with a little white rubber, that hold together the lid and the crank, like every other grinder. Maybe they forgot to include in this unit?
After watching this insane vidoe, I purchased a 1Zpresso K-pro(same burr set as K-plus) even though I've already had a C40. Keep going🔥🔥🔥🔥 My favourite coffee youtuber!🎉
Just few days ago I started looking for a hand grinder and thought "would be nice if Lance Hedrick had a video about them"! Great timing, thanks a lot!
You're videos are really stressing me out lately. I bought the DF64 and K-Plus literally days before your review. The possible buyers remorse from a bad Lance review is real. On topic: Great job on the review! Very thorough and nice in depth material on the burr geometry and taste.
Used the time stamps to brew my coffee this morning - always love the content and the pure comedy that shines through! Excited to see the next rabbit hole you dive down!
Interesting. I really enjoy comadante regular click that use for pour overs, fr press, moka and Turkish coffee. I guess red click takes fun from nice clicking that feels really tactical
The adjustment on the kingrinder K6 is just like how rifle scopes are adjusted. You need super fine adjustments which require multiple revolutions. It’s very clever to incorporate that into a grinder
Call me crazy as I watched the whole video during breakfast. "I think my mustache just got thicker." LoL 🤣🤣 Thank you for this in-depth review of these hand grinders. Helps me to decide the best for me. I appreciate you, Lance.
Big problem is to rember how many turns it was on my Kinu... So now a useing a digital tire tread depth gauge, and every recipe have now grind seting in mm and it easy to return after cleaning. Thanks great RU-vid channel...Now you need to explore ibrik/cezve...Take care!!
I hadn't really considered it when I purchased it, but I really appreciate the K-plus's carry case. It is kind of big though. I'm really only transporting it places a few times a year, so the fact that it's kind of a big case doesn't bother me. On the other hand, because it's so organized, I clean and away my grinder after every use each day.
I considered adding the travel packs for the grinders that came with them in the video but opted not to to save time. The travel case on this is clutch.
I didn't realize they were so expensive. I just bought one in Istanbul that I guess is a standard hand grinder in Turkey. It's ornate, beautiful, and it cost less than $10.
The KinGrinder comes with a small band to attach the handle to the lid. In your showcase, that is missing and the reason the handle is coming off. I have the K6 for Flair 58 and enjoy it!
The ability to use a power drill with Kingrinder units is a huge benefit at the espresso level. The setup works surprisingly well. Unfortunately at the cost of bulging Popeye forearms.
There is something up with the K plus burrs. Not all of the versions of the grinder seem to have the same one. In this video, it looks identical to the one that is in the K max. However, online and in other videos, the burr appears different, with less metal at the base. This may explain some of the discrepancy between reviewers (obviously taste is also subjective). I am not sure if this burr change is something that is exclusive to the dark iron grey model of the grinder that Lance has and NOT present in the brown/grey regular versions, or whether it is a change carried forward across all of the colours. This is a serious frustration with 1zpresso. It is never clear what you are truly buying because they silently make small changes to their product lines which could affect the flavour profile. When you buy a comandante, you know 100% what you are getting and are assured that the burrs are identical to the reviews and information you have based your decision on. With 1zpresso, you never quite know if you are getting revision 2 or revision 4, and whether it is the exact same as what you read about online.
Love my c40 had it 6 months, I don't really have any issue with the click system and the quality of filter is just incredible. Build quality is exceptional as well. I know people with a Kinu, c40s and K-plus all great choices.
Sure thing! All personal. I think the filter on k plus is just a bit more enjoyable personally. And those I blind tested with me agreed. But it's all so subjective. And clicks- definitely person to person. I absolutely abhor clicks. Once you go external, I don't think you can go back hahaha!
@@LanceHedrick Can you tell us in which way you prefered k plus? Body, clarity, sweetness, acidity etc. How do the differ? I want to know what to expect :)
loved your review.......its clear your not an elitist when it comes to coffee...i also like you chose your own favorit and not what the masses think.i love my comandante....but your review in indepht...i apreciate that....hats off
First speaking out against the Niche and now the Comandante! Finally....and I totally agree with you. The C40 makes delicious coffee but they need to upgrade the user experience. Counting clicks, and the extremely long time to grind for espresso, is why I switched to the KPlus as my daily driver. Stay golden pony boy.
Great video as always! Regarding KinGrinder handle: The lid and handle can be attached and it seems to solve the problem of the handle coming off during operation. It did for me anyway.
I watched 98% of this tbh. Just skipped some of the ones that I knew I wouldn’t be interested in but wow you did such a fantastic job!! Thank you for providing the content all of us need 💯 🔥
Just in time. The C40 was still in the return window. I ordered the K-Plus right after this video (for $245 with a clipped coupon). I thought the pain of invisible grind settings and longer grind times buys me a better cup with the Commandante. But I trust you blindly in all things steel v coffee beans so now it’s an easy decision. Thank you for another excellent video and the hard work that goes into each of them.
@@TheIkubaru Sure. The end of the story was I actually returned the K-Max and got the C40 after all. I am happy I did. I was unable to detect a difference in taste. However, I like the materials of the C40 much more. The catch cup fits perfectly in the portafilter and Aeropress. The wood feels much nicer to hold, I just look forward to using the Commandante. I think it's a very personal decision about what you like. There's basically no difference in taste. Feel free to ask any follow-up questions you might have. :)
@@RasenRambo23 That is the story that I am afraid of lol. I have used c40 before and I loved how the materials feel. But didn't enjoy the click system and grinding speed. Aluminum of 1zpresso feels "cold" and not durable as stainless steel I believe. And the look of alpine lagoon c40 kills me :) Thank you for sharing your experience. I am glad to hear that they both grind same as each other.
@@TheIkubaru Dude, if you are in love with the look of Alpine Lagoon, definitely go for it, then. :) Coffee is a hobby, a morning ritual and anything you use for it needs to be enjoyable. Yes, the C40 does grind a bit slower but I enjoy myself more while doing it. :D I also didn't like how easily the K-Max picks up scuffs as the aluminum is very soft. The catch cup and threads already had marks on their sharp edges. I am glad I had both and was able to return the 1Zpresso. The C40 is not returnable. Wish you lots of fun on your coffee journey. :)
Comandante click system is not that bad. It's quite fast even with Red Clix, but needs users to remember current settings. I often go from 32 clicks to 52 and back, and it's pretty easy.
1zpresso on a roll, I have the Jx Pro and love it. Hoffmann seems to be using it in videos too. Jx Pro seems to be the best sub-$200 do-it-all hand grinder on the market.
It is a fantastic espresso grinder. I say the kingrinder is better all around than the j series at under $200. Imo. J is just a bit tpp traditional for my taste. BUT that fits James perfectly.
The Kingrinder K5 has a separate gasket under the lid to hold the handle so it shouldn’t come off. You only remove it when using a drill. I’d assume the k6 is the same.
Still would be curious about that brew burr for Kinu, cause while "ppl say" might mean something, it also doesnt mean that much when one is considering trained taste vs untrained, tap water vs RO water with exact mineral composition, etc. There is big difference between someone "who knows" doing judgement and "general public". In quite a few cases, general public was wrong.. Sure, Kinu could make mistake with that burrs. But what if they didnt?
I just got a J-Max at Rogue Wave last month. I was visiting in-laws in Spruce (from Kelowna) and after 2 days of drinking Keurig coffee I found myself in the city buying a grinder, Aeropress, scale and a bag of coffee. I love that they give you a 200g bag of crap coffee to play with and season the burs along with a pair of samples of real coffee with every grinder sold. I’d been thinking of creating a travel set for some time, particularly just before this trip, but didn’t leave enough time to get it fully researched and ordered to guarantee delivery prior to leaving. Kelowna has a couple of good roasters, but no really good sellers for buying gear. I had to shop online. Kyle R’s recommendation of 1zpresso had me looking hard at them and this led me to Rogue Wave even before I left. Bonus: buying in Alberta saved me BC’s 7% PST! On a $460CAD total bill, a not insignificant savings!! I have an adequate electric grinder at home for my daily driver Moka pot, but I had some requirements, for a hand grinder, beyond just brew quality, “last a lifetime” build quality and portability (or I’d have gotten a Q2). I wanted a minimum 30g capacity (to be able to temporarily replace my 10 year old electric when it inevitably bites it), the ability to do occasional Turkish (my home grinder can’t) and, although I have no plans to get an espresso machine, future-proofing for that - pay once, cry one. The idea being that this would be the only hand grinder that I ever buy. I looked at the K’s and Commendante pretty hard while I was there, but ultimately just couldn’t justify the extra cost. The only downside of not getting the Commendante, is that it seems every other recipe I find gives “Commendante Clicks” for grind size. I ultimately decided on the J-Max vs the cheaper J’s due to its included case and easier adjustment method. One final thing: Jared, I’m so jealous of the Edmonton area water. With a brand new, unfamiliar grinder and brewer, I brewed the best coffee I’ve ever had. From the tap. Something I haven’t been able to replicate here at home. Time to try water treatment, I guess.
Im sure im insane! Some thoughts: not sure if I just didn't notice you mentioning it but yeah the Etz-I also grinds in reverse! I've tested and measured and tasted the Kinu pour-over burr and the stock burr just beats it any metric that matters to me. It grinds really slow, you get more fines, and you also get less uniformity on the boulders. Some people say they get good results with it at a lot lower extractions and immersions. The K-Plus I tested seems to have an earlier burr than the one you tested so it's possible 1Zpresso's updated its burr to more closely resemble the C40. From my original testing, the K-Plus offered a superior verison of that Kinu pour over burr profile, I measured more fines and more boulders than the C40 but with very uniformly shaped boulders. That is to say I had cups from the K Plus that had more brightness and also more florality and other end extraction notes while the C40 still offered sweeter and more rounded cups. Though with a wider distribution, K Plus brews tasted amazing without it ever getting too bitter or too acidic, overall a very well done execution of the wider distribution profile. Sticking to the pour over grind range for the Etz-I I actually get very minimal retention, it's really only in the espresso range. With that in mind, I wish they decided to stick to their "light roast burr" which they claim has really low fines or at least I hope they offer it. Final thoughts on hand grinder comparisons for the more geekier part of us, inner burr geometry really is only half the picture with the outer burr geometry still vastly differing between the grinders, though definitely more difficult to visually compare. I think how the grinder's cavity size, shape, and geometry impacts popcorning which also affects grind distribution and particle shaping. Lastly hand grinding RPM really does have a significant impact on overall distribution, higher RPM = coarser distribution with less fines but also just larger particles and potentially more elongated shaped particles. Great video Lance! It's been a while since I've gotten to watch a solid grinder showdown. I believe the last one was still when Steve was with Prima Coffee. Asser at Coffee Chronicler doing a good job too.
Yes etz i is backwards. But they say as much in the pamphlet when you receive it. It is also loads easier to grind because the collar rotates. I can't be sure about which k plus burr you have but mine certainly has less fines and boulders than c40. Same with testing done by 1zpresso I am more than aware about the jmportant of the collar. I am designing some cone burrs as we speak. But, the cones themselves are much more obvious in what they demonstrate so they're easier to discuss. That coupler with the fact you can take off collars in some handgrinders make it very difficult to showcase. I did mention etz I had a lot of Retention with espresso specifically. Not filter.
As for sifting tests, they truly arent very helpful at all, hence my decision not to include any. They are more misleading than anything. Rpm does matter and i discuss it often in other videos, but here, although I could speculate, there simply isn't enough information out there to say anything solidly
Hey Lance! Thanks for the great video as always! I was curious if you have tried/have thoughts on the Flair Royal Grinder. I really haven’t seen it talked about much. Thanks!
I've not really paid attention to the hand grinder space since I bought my Lido 3 a few years back. I love that thing, and didn't previously know that Orphan Espresso released yet another version of the Lido with the Lido OG. I almost want to buy the OG purely because it seems to fix my single biggest complaint about the older style Lidos: the ring adjustment system. Most of the time, it's fine, but every once in a while, it just gets stuck and it's a whole thing to get it out. Plus the new adjustment system on the OG just seems like it would make sense to me.
I have heard more than once that an Orphan Lido is a way to tell the world that you are prepared to carry a grand piano if it means you will have good coffee
It is better than k plus because it is a grinder geared for espresso. I agree it is better in that dialing is easier but I prefer espresso from k series. That being said, I think you are dead on in that the overwhelming majority would prefer espresso from the j. But, I do think the overall winner between the two is the k, meaning it does both better than j does both. But, again, yes. J max is fantastic for espresso! I'll likely do a video in the future but I linked Kyle rowsell video because he covers it well. I just need to do a full 1zpresso video.
Hey Lance. Another really interesting video but I'm kinda surprised that you don't know how to 'easy adjust' the comandante. Just hold the adjustment knob and rotate the handle. Takes 2 secs to get back to zero and then rotate the handle back in the opposite direction. Each full rotation is 12 clicks (or 24 with red clix) so it's a 5sec job to zero then reset to however many clicks you want. It's on the Comandante YT channel.
Thx for the video Lance! Dude I just saw Mazzer released an new hand grinder the Omega ! Looks beautifull ! 🤩 so many new grinder on the market ils crazy!!!
@@LanceHedrick oh Btw i have the C40 with Red Click (it s not as expensive here in Europe 225 if I remember). I never go back to zero and adjusting from were I was and counting and memorizing the clicks....yeah still a bit a pain for sure 😅
“Nothing has such power to broaden the mind as the ability to investigate systematically and truly all that comes under thy observation in life.” - Marcus Aurelius
Welcome to the best hand grinders video!! I’m an 1zpresso fanboy and would love a video from you on 1zpresso grinders! Paired with my Flair Pro 2, my favorite is the JE-Plus which sports the same italmill burr as the Kinu. I also have a J-Max and a JX-Pro. I’d love to make space for the K-Max but I’m unsure about the 22microns: do you ever have to play with the Dose because 22 micron is “too big” of a gap? Keep rocking!
Hey Lance! I’m guessing you must have notes somewhere comparing the grind size/clicks of all these grinders? Would be an incredible resource to drop on the community, discussing grind size across different grinders sucks right now and a comparison table would be dope
Issue is it wouldn't be helpful. Similar grind sizes don't mean similar results. Particle shape differs greatly. Would cause more confusion and frustration than help
