Because of my back & neck issues, I Will never get more hardtails. rough downhills or rock gardens can be very painful, much of my back will slip, so I have to take it easy, or carefully crack it back if I can. Replace the pivots? if you properly maintain the bearings they will last much longer. I repack bearings using the hand palm method. The difference is huge for me. Great video, well explained.
I have done that for years. it helps, but does not eliminate my problem, but I try to work on my core as much as I can possibly do. Switching from 720 to 800mm bars helped a lot with elbow joint slipping issues, it rarely happens, on easy trails, unless Ii do really technical stuff.
I understand, but I have issues with all joints in my whole body slipping, it's the reason I always use cups with handles and no glasses I always wear protection when riding no matter how easy it is. Thx for advice anyway.
I try to work on other muscles, but some days I just lay in bed, or sit still, and not even riding, because of back or neck issues. I also have a different amount of slack in my joints left is tighter, right is looser.
Retire from riding? or work, I am actually retired, but I will never stop riding. I will just wear protectors, and be careful, and crack everything in place, and not ride if Ii got back issues I can't fix.
Hello Johannes Nislen, I have joint problems too, but mine comes from lyme disease. Some days I just can't ride cause my joints hurt too much. Do you have any disease? Or why are you having these joint problems? You just ride full suspension bikes because of your issues right?
This is an outstanding video. So much good info for this guy looking at his first bike purchase in 2.5 decades. It seems things have changed just a little bit... :)
Awesome, very fair and neutral comparison - just what I was looking for. Thank you Clint! Been riding a hard tail for 20 years, before full suspension was really a thing, so your high level overview was amazing and your expertise really appreciated. Super overview!
Excellent video! One of the best, most comprehensive and objective comparisons of hardtail vs. full suspension! Really great information for both someone new to mountain biking and experienced riders as well.
Really good info on your channel. I am at the point at witch I give up on my idea of riding my normal Hardtail as a trail bike. It simply cannot compare with a Fully and maybe the modern trails are getting too dangerous for my age. Maybe I am just afraid. But the only thing that I have not improved on it is the fork and even if I know this is important, having a fully seems way easier for trail rides then having the best fork on a hardtail. I think I just need to find some normal Trails that don't make me think I will die if I attempt going throw them.
Appreciate you.working to keep the variables as constant as possible. Over a 12 minute loop 10 seconds could be found or lost almost anywhere but I think you negated much of that with the heart rate data. Well done. Another thought is while a cutting edge FS bike is faster, the difference isn't massive and if cost is an issue you would competitive enough on the hardtail. I'd love to see a $3000 dollar new bike test, which would be a carbon HT vs a mid range metal FS. The weight difference would be greater...or maybe you could just ride the RKT with two pounds of junk strapped to the top tube! Cheers, Dave
Great video with excellent concise information. I have a hard tail, but it's 15 years old and it's time to update. I'm not racing, I ride for fun and fitness, and my back is getting creaky, so it's full sus for me purely for comfort. I don't mind the extra weight & effort climbing, that's great training!!
Yeah, you helped. I've been thinking about getting into bikepacking, and jonesing for a hardtail... now I'm thinking that for me, a squishie is the way to go. Since I already have a decent FS, (27+) it makes it a lot more likely to be something I can afford to get into. It's not so much the lap times, as your analysis about feel. Thanks for the reasoned and insightful commentary.
I was so glad to get another XCT Concept softail (for free!), I went trailing on it last week. 25 miles just disappeared behind me in no time, over terrain that would have killed my 2005 Trek 3700.
Dude i use hardtail bikes only and i go faster then every full suspension i meet you truly lose speed with shocks it depends on the rider not the bike...
antlerr whatever works for you but you must not be riding too gnarly of stuff bc I’m riding black diamond trails in which a hard tail is a no go. Probably not too much faster when your against tree.
@@grahams5146 i only ride hardtails bubs and don't say it's a no go for i ride hardtail down crazy asf hills black diamond and double Black, even stuff that has no rating for its big crazy local stuff. The stuff people like you claim only full suspension is aperantly needed i prove them wrong day after day.
antlerr ok I understand if your a good enough rider to make a hard tail work that’s fine but going back to your first comment people in general are faster on downhill trails with full suspension. Also what hardtail are u riding, because I’m riding a 140/100 travel and bikes like a Chromag that’s floating on 150mm travel and 27.5+ tires and has a slack HTA can feel similar to a mid travel full sus mtb.
@@grahams5146 Trek mate i ride trek. Your making excuses saying have to have this that or the other thing in the end it takes a bike a rider and the trail. Id love to finally find someone to make me have to push my pace but everyone i have to slow down to keep up with they all ride full suspension bikes the $5000 range bikes i shred a $1000 bike harder and faster. Hydraulic brakes to always have stop power and big 29ers to float over anything and secret i only have the basic front on my bike soon it will get a beast from fox shock's and make my bike even more of a beast. How high you drop off i have hit 10 foot high drop onto grass from a mountains lip felt like led as i landed.
Its the price that has shied me away from full suspension bikes. All the B.S. that's its special gold AL or carbon blah blah. Its the same parts and forks as a HT with a fancy paint job. Call me cheap but no bike costs over 3k unless your a pro racer or a crazy man asking for your death on the A-Line of Whistler BC. Love my 26ers...can steer it in traffic, pump my legs til the burn and lean back and pull a wheelie in street. My winter bike is a Norco Wolverine. Its heavy, tight behind but feel safe gliding on snow or cutting ice on the roads of Niagara. Great explanation of FSB Clint. Thanks.
Yesterday I finally got to ride a full fat bike, went on a group ride and traded with someone. Totally changed my opinion, what a blast and insane traction... if someone wasn't in front of me I could have done one of the twisty downhills in PR time for sure. Trails get sandy here after storms and for that those fat tires... amazing. Nice comparison, after riding hardtails, even rigid my entire life 3 years ago I got my first full suspension, don;'t think I'd ever go back to a hardtail. It would be interesting if you had a full suspension bike with geometry similar to that HT you're riding, slacker head angle, longer and shorter chainstays. So many bikes out there I'd like to try.
I love hardtail mtbs. The whole thing about bikes that draws me to the sport/activity is the simplicity of them as compared to motorized vehicles. There's something about being 20 miles away from civilization, just me and the bike and not being stranded because of this thing that I can carry on my shoulder. I understand why people dig full squish mtbs. But I prefer the simple design of the hardtail.
These are great VLOGs Clint I have enjoyed your journey through this hard tail rocket vs full suspension rocket testing. The times are so close to be of little consequence unless you are looking for a race bike. Social riding within a group means there are opportunities for rest periods in a typical ride. My observation would be that the majority of people will possibly making a choice between a high end aluminium full suspension and a carbon hard tail. This might be worth thinking about. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on how it performs as a trail bike. PS My current bike is a Giant Trance 2 Ltd. 27.5 Keep the VLOGS going they are much appreciated.
Love my hardtails. I dont go to the trails to be comfortable. Love getting out the seat and slapping my bike around. Love the power on straightaways. Love locking the front forks and climbing. Aaaaahhhh....paradise.
Great vid. I'm upgrading bikes for the first time, and hardtail or full sus is the debate i'm having right now. Looking into the giant advanced x 29er.
Great video. Thx. I have a 27,5" fully alu trail bike right now but want to enter some local XC races and riding more in the local club. So this video is great right now. I am considering a 29" hardtail XC bike in carbon with 1x11. Think I will get a little more bike for my money on a hardtail, and I still have the trail bike for the bumpy runs...
When comparing the 2 I use the comparison of running on a solid surface versus running on a trampoline: when you’re on the solid surface, all the power you put through your foot goes straight into the ground, but when you land it’s pretty harsh. When you run on a trampoline, a fair amount of your foots power is absorbed by the trampoline, but when you land it’s much more forgiving. Of course this is hardly exact but I consider it a good guideline for beginners.
Hey Clint, I had two surprises when going from my Specialized Epic full suspension to my Giant XTC carbon hard tail. First was that while riding in the single trails, I really don't miss the extra weight and cushion the full suspension offers. BUT, the biggest surprise was when riding on rocky fire roads? I am getting beat up where my full suspension bike would have soaked most of those rocks up. I may have to break the piggy bank and buy another bike!
if your getting beat up so to speak....seriously adjust your riding style and how you grip the handle bars. Work on your core (body). learn to ride letting your body act as an absorber.
Thanks for this Clint. I've been out of mountain biking for a long time. I have a good hardtail but it's from the late 90's so it's without disc brakes. I'm thinking of either a full suspension 27.5 trail bike or a 29'r hardtail
Thanks for your videos Clint. They are very good. I was after your advice on choosing either a hardtail or a full suspension bike. I mainly ride on my road. But I would like to do more mtb ridding. The mtb ridding would be a lot of hilly gravel roads and some single track. I don't plan on doing heaps of mtb ridding but a bit as a change up. Would you recommend a hardtail or a full suspension bike? I'm looking at the Giant Talon 29er or the Giant Stance. Thanks mate.
full suspension is the way to go since most of the trails are flat. The climbing/weight advantage does not make that big a difference as riding over rocks ect...
Awesome vid man. I was hoping there would be some mention of what impact (if any) the constant vibration has on the bikes components as opposed to the FS that has everything sprung. I'm curious because I'm currently looking for a donor bike for an e-bike conversion, but a little concerned that a hard-tail might diminish the life cycle of the motor/battery with all the vibrations over time.
Thank you very much for this video. It really helped me understand the difference between the 2 bikes. I am switching from city bike to mountain and I was wondering if the full suspension is worth the difference in price for weekend rides in moderate terrain. I will go for hard tail
nice forest. is this Florida? Also another question: does your freewheel noise not bother you? I put thicker grease in all of my noisy freehubs cause I hate the noise they make, mostly mutes them
Hi Clint. I'm ur supporter from Singapore. I'm currently riding a hardtail polygon Alu frame. I'm think to upgrade to full carbon xtc advanced or a full sus trance Alu. I'm only 165cm. Will be getting the smallest size possible. Do u think I should consider a full suspension? I have been able to complete all my trail in the hardtail I have
+Raymond Tay if you are riding on roads and dirt roads and trails and I would say stay with a hardtail. On rougher Trails I have more fun on a full suspension. I would say try to borrow one or rent one to see how it compares to your hardtail.
Thanks Clint. I will try to source for a full sus to try out before I made any decision. However. I really like ur comparison between the Giant XTC and NIner. It gave me a very good perspective of what I should look out for
What trail are you riding? I agree with starting with a ht. I moved to Tallahassee a year ago and started back in to mt biking. I started with my 1995 rigid Trek andthen went to an entry level Specialized Jynx. With riding continuously i have improved my skills rapidly on the ht
Thanks Clint! Amazing talk again about the topic. I really would like to know the tire pressure. Did you use lower pressure on the full sus or the opposite? What is exactly your tire pressure on the both bikes and what kind of pressure you use in the race or do you change the lower pressure for normal training day? I have no idea what kind of pressure pro level drivers use. I know it's a lot to say because so many variants how to choose the right pressure but still I'm curious about it. I use in my full sus from 1.5 to 1.8bar (21 to 26psi) in tubeless setup depending of the ride. Does that sound low pressure to you?
I run about 20 -21 in the front and 23 to 25 in the back. I didn't change the pressure when swapping the wheels between the bikes. I"m about 145 pounds. If I ride in rocky areas I'll add about 3-4 psi. I keep the same pressure for training and racing.
Great videos and info. It great having people like yourself produce this kind of info. Quick question. Im just about to get a new bike. I haven't been riding for a few years and my last bike was a giant trance full suspension. Perfect bike for my home trail around Manly Dam in Sydney. I now live in Florida and was thinking about a hardtail 27.5 plus bike . Specialised Fuse Expert fattie or a Scott Scale 710plus. Or head back to a giant Stance. Any suggestions or thoughts appreciated.
+Rod Clarke I assume you've been watching my 27.5 plus series? A hardtail Plus bike is a great option for Florida. I still lean towards full suspension because I've been riding it for so long. If it were me I'd probably go for the stance but it's a matter of personal preference. If you make it near San felasco let me know and I can let you test ride my plus bike if you ride a medium.
Hello Clint, this is absolutely fantastic video and very comprehensive look at the comparison between hardtail and full suspension bike. I have been riding 2016 Niner Air 9 RDO: fantastic bike, fast, nible, super light. The Ultimate Cycling Machine. I ride about 140 miles each month, on the flat surface, gravel, in the woods; NCR Trail in Northern Maryland. I have had it for over a year, put around 2,000 miles on it and become so fit that the front ring (32T) is too small. I do not want to install a front derailleur and the 2016 frame will not accommodate bigger ring. I need 34T to 36T. So I am trying to zero on the new 2018 Niner Air 9 RDO. But because I would like to also venture to different trails, I am thinking if I should pick a full suspension bike (I like Yeti SB5.5), which would cover the tougher trails and still could use it on the flat trails, surface. I suspect I would have to lock the rear suspension, and am aware that it still bobs. Any thoughts. Thank you. Mark
+Marek after getting experience that you have gotten, I would try full suspension. It'll take awhile for your riding style to adjust to it but once you do I think you'll be a smoother and faster rider. Just my thoughts. The Yeti is a great bike. The RKT9 is great too.
Clint Gibbs Thank you again. I most likely will take the leap. The more I read, watch videos about it, the more it takes a sense. I am a big Niner fan but have no experience whatsoever with their full suspension bikes. Any suggestions, recommendation? I like the Yeti SB5.5 carbon. Your review videos are absolutely perfect, stunning!!! Best. Marek
Clint Gibbs I have a chance to try the 2018 Yeti SB5.5 Turq. Fantastic bike, beautiful look, absolutely gorgeous. Now I have to make a decision, whether to go with the built SRAM Eagle X01 or Shimano XT. Difference $600.00 dollars. Ouch!
Thanks for the video, I'm actually about to buy a 17' xtc (in the 29version) have you made a 27+ vs 29 video? What are your thoughts (coming from a road background, I can't really imagine myself wanting to buy 27+ wheels) Cheers
What do you think of the single FUTURE SHOCK of Specialized, or the FATTY SHOCK of Cannondale? Does having a cushion or springs under the seat hamper performance? Where is this trail?
I’m looking at getting back into mountain biking, I’ve always bought trek hard tail or Gary fisher. I been debating on a full suspension, what’s your thoughts on the polygon t7 ?
@@ClintGibbs ya I wouldn’t be looking into carbon period, I had a carbon skirt on my car years ago, it’s not as strong as it’s hyped up to be maybe initially but after some fatigue it looses its strength, also with age. But that’s just from my experience and carbon research. To each their own I guess but I think carbon fiber is not suitable for trail, downhill or even enduro at that! Reason I asked is you cannot find a bike anywhere right now, or I’d most definitely be going with the trek marlin 8 or a full suspension. After calling bike shops within 100 or so miles I started searching the internet came across polygon I will say they are nice looking bikes. Then I came across your video was hoping you had experience or greater knowledge, seeing your very detailed, I was always big biker but never got into great detail, I’d just go to my local trek shop and let them set me up, not only can I not find a bike but my trek shop closed for good after 68 years of business.
@@jaycoraldi1639 One good thing about those mail order companies is you can get some pretty good components for the price. If you decide you don't like the frame you can always change it out for a different one later on and use those components. For the price it's hard to go wrong, especially considering availability is so low right now across the industry. Regarding carbon, a well made carbon bike is going to be stronger than an alloy bike. But the key is it has to be good quality. There's some cheap Chinese carbon out there that I've seen in photos and videos breaking easily. Wish you the best!
I ended up choosing the 2018 Hawk Hill. It's enough bike for beginner without breaking that palm-sweating 2000 dollar mark. I got some in store credit through it, later on I can give it a dropper post. For now I want to see what the trails have to offer a fat dummy with average balance.
Sending bak a rear shock to the manufacturer once a year? WHY? This is true only for the pricey/ fancy shocks or all the shocks? I have a fox float rp2 old and cheap, costs less than 100$, isn't enough to fill with fox fluid in it annually?
+trialboj Fox recommends sending your shock and Fork back every 125 hours of riding, or annually, whichever comes first. I'm just stating what the manufacturers recommend. I don't want to state any advice contrary to the manufacturer's on my RU-vid channel since I don't want to be responsible for someone doing any damage to a product. However I do change the oil more frequently which in theory could make that time limit longer.
For me, I'm always faster on a hard tail when the ride is under about 30 miles and 5000 feet of climbing. Above that and a FS has the advantage as that's when fatigue starts setting in and I need something more forgiving.
I started on a hard tail but I only ride it if my full suspension is down or being serviced. I have just over $3000 in my full suspension bike and it rides so comfortably I can ride a long time and it's just easier to ride than the hard tail.
If you have the money to buy and maintain a full suspension bike get a full suspenion bike. If you don't get a hardtail. Unless all your trails are smooth and you are basically doing only gravel riding. Also a modern full suspension xc bike is more capable than a trail bike of a few years back and you can have more fun with it.
Can anyone explain to me why just having front suspension (as in case of hard tail works), actually works ?. Cause when you are sitting most of your weight is on the rear wheel, and your elbows are already bent to absorb vibrations travelling up the fork, so I dont really see the benefit of using a front suspension. It will definitely come into effect when you get out of the saddle and put more weight on your hands (and hence front wheel), which may make sense when youre ascending (but youre already going quite slow so it probably would not matter), thinking about descending with weight over front wheel just seems less stable to me. So where is the actual benefit? Alternatively how different your ride would be lets say if you were to lockout your suspension or hop on a bike with exactly same geometry but with rigid (no suspension) fork
+rahul dimri I actually almost explained that in the video but cut it out for time sake. Basically the front wheel gets driven into bumps and the back will gets drug over. So the front wheel takes the harder impact. It's also easier to get your weight off the saddle and use your legs as suspension on a hardtail.
The front suspension makes a big difference, my second mtb was equipped with some cheap shit suspension called Top Gun, after 2 years I've replaced it with Marzocchi air fork, which was almost as expensive as the whole bike, but the difference was huge, on rough descent I could go max. 20kmh, with the new fork I could go up to 40kmh, it just worked, the fork just didnt let me down(literally) like the previous fork which reached the maximum travel on bigger bumps with unpleasant hit, resulting in crash
you say hardtails climb better due to lower weight, but ive seen a few gmbn videos where the full suspension bike definitely climbs better due to the rear tire being in contact with the trail more. the hardtail guy was gasping for breath while the full susp guy was just fine!
it depends on the type of Trail. I've said in several of my videos that there are times when full suspension will climb better if the trails were chunky and you need the extra traction.
My full suspension bike is lighter than my hardtail because I got a smaller frame and lighter components on it, I find I get tired faster on the hardtail I think the slightly shorter crank means higher cadence and easier speed!
I have a 2014 trek xcalibur 4 hard tail. I love it but I live in Las Vegas. And I like to go fast but I notice there are allot of trails that I have to avoid certain obstacles simply because I'm worried about pooping tires or hitting my frame. I've been riding for a year. Suggestions? I keep talking about getting a full suspension with my riding buddy. But he seems more Negative than anything.
+phillips7024 there's no reason not to get a full suspension. And it's all I ride now. Sounds like a good trail bike is what you need. Something with between 120 to 150 mm of travel. If you really want to climb fast or do more cross-country type riding go for less travel but if you like doing rougher trails a lot then go for the longer travel range.
These videos may help: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YrXwRfHxyso.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3aWk6zqOZc8.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OKypD_ZTTrU.html
Thanks for the extra videos, found your insight on the differences between both types of bikes and where to use them very helpful towards chosing my next bike. Glad to see someone else likes to test things out between different bike. It's becoming a real interest of mine. I've always a hard tail XC but now looking for a smoother ride from a lighter bike for slogging up the steep terrain I ride while giving me more stability and comfort on the rugged down hills in the mountains. Sound like the full suspension, short travel is the way to go. Less traction and a lighter bike helps me more due to being asthmatic. Just keep peddling, just keep peddling. 👍
A full-suspension XC bike has to have a shock lockout for climbing!... If you're bobbing up and down when out of the saddle then you're doing it the hard way... Get a shock with a lockout!
I only ride for pure fun and i live right next to a small mauntain and i have been riding for 6 years, would that make any changes to your opinion if so what do you recomend?
+Stonyartist 1119 I love riding full suspension so if you've developed your skills and you have the budget for a decent full suspension it's what I recommend
Bro, First I have been riding MTB for awhile, (late 80's) and I have pretty much a full quiver of bike minus a plus sized & road type of bike (really unsure about that sine I have been offload my whole cycling life) which I want both of. I currently have some older bikes, 2007 TREK 4300 (upgraded with all XT and a 120m dart 3) and a 2009 Specialized Pitch COMP (upgrader with all XT with stock suspension Pike U-Turn 95-140mm adjustable and a X-Fussion 150mm). 2005 Schiwwn Sting PRO XL 20" race/ follow my daughter bike. But these video have been super fun to watch and learn from. I have been eyeing a Specialized FUSE Comp (about $1500.00). I know it's not carbon but the money clip says that is about my limit with some funds to switch drive train to a XT ( I am not a huge fan of sram). But know to a road bike??? Where do I start?? I have looked at the Specialized Sirrus Comp Carbon, because of the MTB look and shifters are the same. I have also looked at more of adventure/tuoring type road bike too, the Specialized Sequoia. Any help or suggestions? Ohh and have you thought about a hybrid type of testing like what you are doing with these bikes? Anyways Bro, Live-Life-Loud and I'll hopefully catch you on the trail some day!!
+Only The Bold Project I can tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes. I would get a cyclocross bike and put some road tires on for pure road riding. They are so versatile. Even the cross tires that come on it will be fine on the road.
+Kóbor Tamás where I ride to sweat pours from every ounce of your body and your grips gets soaked. If you didn't have gloves there's no way you could hold on.
Kóbor Tamás you get more grip on the bars and brakes and stop your fingers rubbing on rockier terrain and help if your riding single track from hitting in bushes and shrubs
+David Starrs not really. I think I only use the dropper post for about 10 seconds on both of those tests. So for these tests the only difference is the dropper post added a little bit of weight to the bike but I don't think it made a big difference.
