Insufficient Vacuum Message? Can't find a leak? Are you frustrated? Perhaps you have a dirty vacuum sensor. Harvest Right Part Numbers: Vac Tube Kit (Kit-VTB) Vac Tube ELC-B0005 Vac Board ELC-B0004
2 months of trouble shooting and finally I found this video. I cleaned the rhermocouple with rubbing alcohol gently swishing and lt it sit a few minutes. Thanks to this information, my Freeze dryer is now functioning better than ever. I am so very greatful to you for sharing this with us.
I have been researching freeze driers for a few weeks and no-one seems to discuss the mechanics but you. Thank you sir! This is the type of stuff I’ve been looking for.
Great video, will give it a shot tomorrow. Developed widely fluctuating pressures despite constant vacuum pull from a Premier and oil free pumps. I suspect it’s my problem and I might be able to avoid submitting a ticket to HR. Saving $! Thanks! The next day: it worked! Yay!
Phil, I want to thank you so much for making this video. We’ve been plagued with the dreaded “inadequate vacuum” message for several months. Not only that but occasionally we’ll get a message that says it can’t cool to an adequate temperature. I can’t remember that message. I spoke to HR customer service numerous times and it was getting to the point where they wanted me to send the machine in. I tried to tell them that I suspect a sensor error but what do I know? I suspected a sensor error because my temperature would change 10° in 10 seconds and I knew that wasn’t accurate or really even possible inside the FD. Prior to cleaning the vacuum sensor my machine would only get to approx 1500 mT when doing the vacuum test and then would rapidly rise to something very high then would wildly swing between mT. But after watching this video I went and got a can of MAS cleaner, removed my vacuum sensor and cleaned it like you suggested. Reinstalled it, did a vacuum test and it pulled down to 244mT. I don’t think I have a vacuum leak. Ran a batch of food and it worked perfectly. Does the vacuum sensor also detect the temperature in the chamber?
The temp sensor in the chamber is from a thermistor under the heater element, I believe on the second tray. Looks like a worm under the skin. I'm glad the video helped.
@@Philat4800feet Back to square one. Still getting the Inadequate Vacuum message. I think my FD is not getting cold enough or our garage in this heat is not helping. I put 4 frozen trays in an X-Large FD and it took almost 16 hours for it to get to -10F for the vacuum pump to kick on. Then it seems to work great but during the cycles when it’s on its way back down to 500mT it stalls around 520 but will eventually make it to 500 where the message disappears and everything is back on track. Right now we’re at about 35 hours total time. We live in Oklahoma and it has been hot here. Does the temperature of the environment the FD is in make that much of a difference?
@@Philat4800feet a new problem. Freeze dryer won’t come on at all. No screen power and no refrigeration compressor. The little green light on the back of the screen is on, I have 125 volts where the power enter the circuit board and I have good continuity on the black and white power wires that go to the circuit board. The other day I turned it on and nothing happened. Turned it off and on and it came on. I turned in a ticket in with HR but have heard nothing. Really frustrated with their customer support. I figure in about a week they’ll send me an email to set up an appointment a week out. HR didn’t used to be this way. When I called with a problem I talked to someone right then. This is our third FD from HR and all three have had problems. We bought our first one in 2014. Any suggestions as to what it may be or a work around?
Thanks for the info. A few points to consider; HR uses commercially available vacuum sensors, not really proprietary. You may consider using gas rated (thicker) PTFE. Notice the yellow color of what came out. New units require two screws to be removed from the GUI bezel prior to removing the top cover. You didn't show the comparison as mentioned. Instead it appears an old video was edited in.
I was surprised not to find any markings on the sensor, so it was hard to run a proper ID on it. I also understand that HR has made a lot of changes to the inner chassis.
I was wondering about the yellow tape too. That did not look like HR factory taping on the thermo-couple. Was that tape original Phil? Great video as always!
@Philat4800feet Not sure how to properly contact you Via RU-vid. Here is the problem, we are experiencing: Vacuum pump was pulling +2500 mtorr, not pulling the required 500 mtorr vacuum. I have disassembled and reassembled our Harvest Right 7 CFM HRC-7-115, SN #19010091, several times. It will start pulling a vacuum, often getting down to 200 mtorr sometimes while running quiet and smooth. After anywhere from ½ hour to several hours, the volume and pitch of the vacuum pump changes and it vibrates more, gradually loosing vacuum to +2,500mtorr. It seems to run hotter at this time but perhaps the heat is from extended operation? I have not checked the thermocouple, but plan to I cannot find any vacuum leaks? To measure vacuum with a gage, I suspect I would need an accurate Differential pressure gage? Any ideas? Thanks for any assistance!
I just talked to customer service to order the part. It consists of the Vacuum Tube Senor ($150), Vacuum Tube Control Board ($35), and Vacuum Tube Cable (no price given). They sell a kit with all 3 parts and it is called the Vacuum Tube Board Kit [Kit-VTB] for $203 plus tax but has free shipping. These prices are on 10/26/23.
I forgot to say Thank You for the valuable video in the above post! I just reported the above information so if anyone else asks and have to order they at least have an idea of cost. I did clean it as you suggested and went ahead and resealed every vacuum connection since I had the cabinet apart. When I first ran it after cleaning it still fluctuated wildly, so I ordered the parts. I decided to go ahead and run a batch and it performed as it should, other than about midway through the 1st batch it reported the temperature dropping down to 35 and then going up, and then going down. I had never noticed it doing that before and it could be normal, just hadn't caught it. At least I haven't gotten the Inadequate Vacuum Error message and the mTorr goes down and stays down now. I didn't have a vacuum leak, so cleaning the vacuum tube sensor was the fix I needed. I just took out my 3rd batch since cleaning and resealing. BTW I have over 300 cycles on my medium and only had 1 control board to go bad and had to replace the drain valve twice. I do enjoy your videos and I'm grateful for the time and effort you put into them. Thank you again! @@Philat4800feet
What exactly is the solvent used I’d like to try and clean my sensor before purchasing a replacement kit! Super informative video finally someone explaining the mechanics. Thank you!
Phil, in my training, I was told not to replace Thermocouple wires with anything other than the original wires (or special extension wires). The reason for this is that the thermocouple wires are made from two different materials, such that if you add 2 wires such as "copper" wires to them, they will then create a voltage (due to two different metals at a junction) which will throw off the readings. I am curious -- do the cable connectors use special wires for the thermocouple ?
Good questions. I can't speak for HR, but I don't think they are that close to "attention to detail". The makers of the vacuum sensors recommend to mount the sensors as close to vertical as possible to keep junk and moisture from building up inside. HR sensors are mounted horizontal. I don't think wire selection was a debated topic.
We just got our freeze dryer a few weeks ago and since the bread run, we haven't been able to get adequate vacuum. Completely empty we get around 380 MTor, when loaded we get around 1450. So far it's just a $3000 boat anchor. Have checked all of the external fixes but haven't cracked it open yet.
@NoName-wq9ou Did you ever find out what was wrong because my machine does about the same thing except the tray holder will not allow a vac to be pulled.
@@jesuschristismylordandsavi6108 We changed the settings on the machine. Not at home to check but I think Phil had a video on it. Changed it from fast to slow or something like that.
I have wondered about this sensor many times. Just how accurate it is. I am wondering about the voltages across the pins on an accurate sensor. The resistance will change on amount of contaminates in it as well as the voltage. I love this video.
The sensor works for the Harvest Right program and that about it. My micron gauge is more accurate, and the readings are never the same. HR could make it more accurate at a cost but is it really worth it?
Excellent video, Phil, thank you for demystifying the sensor and how to maintain it! Quick question please... When testing for leaks, how long should the FD maintain a vacuum after I turn off the vacuum pump?
You've been a great help so far. Thank you What would you suggest if the level is constant at 850-950? I retefloned (gas spec) everything with a thread, liquid tape, and wrapped with silicone tape. I also checked front seal. Same constant level remaining. I'm asking if the sensor is a possible issue because I would have to take off all the barrier layers I created. I was thinking it may be a possible pump issue (new model oil pump). Considered buying the Hilmon micron gauge. FD only 10 months old for personal use. Not run hard 24/7. HR wants me to send the unit from Toronto (international shipping $$). This is after telling me the unit is fine at that level with the new 5.X firmware...sure. Starting to feel the frustration.Thanks Phil @@Philat4800feet
@@AJ-ed9ct My Fd is similar to your description. Liquid taped under vacuum. Replace door seal, drain valve, reversed door, cleaned vacuum sensor. The one anomoly I have is it will reach 360 mtorrs IF there is no tray holder in the machine. If the tray holder is in the machine, plugged in or not, the machine cannot get below 770 mtorr. Any advice?
@@jesuschristismylordandsavi6108 I called HR and order a new vaccume hose. Installed and seal taped both ends of the hose. It brought it down to under 200. The hoses are a week point. Many weak points on this machine. My advise for now is run the machine and do the spray test. Lots of spraying. You will see jumps in values if there is a leak. May just be minor. Jesus saves.
Your video was very informative. I have a new unit bought in 2016. But I didn’t get the box opened until 2023. I started the unit, but got no reading on vacuum. The unit had vacuum as the door wouldn’t open until I drained the vacuum off with the drain… any the sensor got damaged in shipment?
Take the sides off the FD and toss them out. HR wants us to work on our machine all the time. Not only pay a ton for the FD but buy a box of tools to keep it working. It might help to install a 90 or 45 degree fitting holding the vacuum sensor in a drain down position and making it harder for crap to get to the heater wire. If the system has no vacuum leaks, why is the pump running the whole time? My new 3-2024, HR Large pro, pump has a vacuum leak inside, less than one minute to loose all vacuum after pump is turned off. I want to cut the vacuum hose and install a check valve with a tee and a vacuum gauge on the food side. then the pump can be turned off for the rest of the many hours of dry time. I recommend you add a vacuum gauge to your system and not rely on the digital gauge. I think the FD process would work better and faster if the vacuum was at 25 torr or 28 in/hg. please feel free to respond and lets fix this mess.
The vacuum pump needs to run all the time because the sublimated water (moisture) is constantly making atmosphere and needs to be pumped out. Not all of it is frozen on the chamber wall. You are right, the vacuum sensor needs to be mounted vertically. I have a 304SS tee just off my pump with a micron gauge. I have made little modifications here and there to get my batches down to around 24 hours.
@@Philat4800feet To move water vapor you would need air flow, with a sealed system it should all freeze in the chamber. How would the water know where the suction is coming from ?If you can find the time to try experiment, Close up the machine and pull 5 minutes of vacuum, turn off the pump and remove the muffler, can you feel suction in the pump muffler hole? how long will your machine hold vacuum with the pump turned off? Thanks for your time.
I had mid cycle batch errors and my mTorr and temperatures were all over the place, causing water to mix into my oil. (eg from 500 to 1200 mTorr and -12 to 120F). The V5.1.24q solved the batch errors, but my mTorr and temperatures are still all over the place and are still causing water to mix into my oil. I'm probably needing to wait for the next software fix.
@Phil---- if you are prototyping a Moisture Collection system to go on the HR FD--- I will PAY for my own way to be apart of this experiment-- as the less moisture that enters the Vacuum PUMP-- the longer mine will last between service intervals.... The Low Profile Oil Less pump is a child of a lesser god for sure....
I have played around with in-line vacuum filters and desiccant , but the only way to remove any additional moisture would be a freeze trap. I'll keep tinkering.
just completed your cleanout and reassembled, will not go below 930mTOR. The wires cross at 90 degrees with a fifth wire looping from center to wall of housing between 1/3, none broken. Original problem was vacuum error would come on when adding more dry time. Had 1.6 at 5/7 and 1.7 at 1/3. Which parts would you suggest I replace? Thanks,
How confident are you that there isn't any real vacuum leak? I had the same problem. I purchased a micron vacuum gauge for around $130 from Amazon and mounted it to a JIT fitting for the vacuum pump. I wanted to find out what my pump would really produce. This tested the pump and hose. From this point there are three locations where a leak can come from: door, valve port, and harness port.
1st I would like to thank you for your great video’s with such helpful info and guidence on fixes. As far as confidence I feel pretty good about the vacuum leaks as the food would process through all the cycles fine then state process complete. Due to timing or other obligations, we would need to add more dry time. After awhile the screen would display “unable to acheive vacuum”. This the last couple of processes. Never had this problem before. I will be replacing the drain valve today with a gas valve. Also our machine performed very well for the past 2 1/2 years. Many thanks once again.
replaced the drain valve, was able to get just under 700mT. ran the 2 minute test, took 3 minutes to get to 2000+/- mT. We have newer model FD with drum encased in foam,no visual connection inside for pump hose to cabinet. Also have premier pump. Still working it! going for new o-rings. Do you recomend the yellow vs. white tape on the thermocouple? Many Thanks, steve & Ann
Found a leak in the hose crimp at the pump end. ordered a new hose Received the hose late Saturday, installed and then ran vacuum test that nite. At the 15 minute mark the mtorr was approx. 715. It did get below 500 mtorr after an hour. I don’t know where else to look unless I start the process again of searching. Reassembled the FD this morning, placed 4 trays of eggs in and started up. Could not keep waiting as the eggs have been in the freezer for 2 weeks! So far it seems to be working ok but don’t know yet.
Tried the ohms test using alligator clip ends and recorded 2.1 on one & 2.2 on the other so i am guessing that's good then. cleaned it out with alcohol will see if this helps. cheers Phil.
I have a pic of my wires after I cleaned it, can I show it to you? There’s something on the point where the wires cross but I can’t tell if that’s dirt or if it’s supposed to be there.
We did this process, and it seemed to make my mtorr worse. The name of my freeze dryer is Frosty, but now it only says Fros...does this mean my motherboard is bad?
Great job Phil! My new freeze dryer started the same thing a week ago. I dry a bunch of goat milk which is very fine powder. Cleaned out the pump with a back flush. That removed a bunch of junk. Gunna try this next. How much was that sensor, board from HR?
OK, I am a bit perplexed. According to your video, my understanding was I should see continuity between pins 1 &3 and also 5 & 7. I have it for 5 & 7 but not 1 & 3. However, when I test a new DV-4D sensor I don't have continuity between 1 & 3 either. What gives?
HR would not release any data for there vacuum sensor claiming it's proprietary. The values used in the video were from a new unit from HR and industry standards for similar vacuum sensors. I can only hope it comes close to what HR is using. Pins 1/3 should have some resistance since this is the heater. Pins 5/7 is more difficult. In many cases you can only tests for "opens".
@@Philat4800feet I had watched a presentation from Teledyne Hastings (manufacture the vacuum sensor) and they described continuity between 3 & 5, 5 & 7, and 3 & 7. When I tested both old and new gauges, I found these combos to have continuity
One of our units was made in 2014 and back then the display will show "XXX" if greater than 1000mtorr. When this happens, trying to find the leak source is a real problem because you can't see any fluctuations. Did I see/hear you recommend a micron gauge. Can this be used to see responses to leak testing joints? Where is it connected to the vacuum system? TIA
I want to put an accurate mtorr gauge on the machine so that I will know if my vacuum sensor is broken or off. I purchased one but the number system doesn't match. It says Torr(mm) and sits at 40 when the machine gets around 3000 or so and stays there even at 900. I have had vacuum problems for 2 years now. The machine will pull a vacuum if I pull the tray holder out but if it is in (plugged in or not) it will not get below 800 or so. I sprayed out the sensor but it made no difference. I have done most everything now. The machine will pull a vac to 360 if it is empty but if I put the tray holder in whether plugged in or not it will only get to around 800 or so. 1. New pump 2. New door seal 3. New brass ball valve 4. liquid taped all joints 5. turned the door backwards to see if it was warped or had some kind of unseen leak 6. New vacuum hose 7. Hard cemented the fitting where the tray holder wires come out of (at the advice of harvest right when they did not charge for help) 8. Paid the 45.00 just to be told they would call at a certain time and call hours later when I was on the road, then told they would call that evening at 4 and never call or send email. I would like to put a gauge on the machine that will show 500 torr vs 550 torrs. This gauge I have just is not sensitive at all. I have a Yellow Jacket "Torr(mm)/in. hg" 9. I adjusted the door even turning it inside out. 10. There is a minor leak at the door due to manufacturing grinding the weld off the face thus making a low spot of 18 thousands. I made a .125 oring and put inside of the door seal thinking this might take up the space but it did not change anything. I sprayed the door seal area with carb cleaner and the vacuum went from 900 to 895 but that was it. Sprayed out the sensor. Please help.
You have covered your bases. Here's some thoughts: Where the "epoxy plug" is located I don't know why HR would use a hard cement. I had a leak at the wire harness. I found a food grade silicone and applied it under low vacuum so the vacuum would help pull in the sealer. It fixed it. One potential leak would be a cracked weld. That would require NDI work such as a penetrating die inspection. I believe HR has a five year warranty on their chamber. I placed a vacuum micron gauge on top of my vacuum pump. I placed a 304SS tee with the gauge coming out the side and the hose coming out the top. If you have a shop that makes hydraulic hoses, they would have all the JIC fittings. Another thought is using different air fresheners to find your leak. Use them one at a time, in different locations, under vacuum and then smell inside the chamber. Place some towels inside the chamber to capture the scent.
@@Philat4800feet A new update to my freeze dryer. 1. I turned the tray holder upside down "unplugged" and ran the freeze dryer and within 5 minutes my visual screen turned upside in a mirror image. I turned it off unplugged restarted and the image was still a mirror image. I turned the tray holder right side up "unplugged still" and within about 5 minutes the visual image corrected itself. Go figure that one. That is a real head thumper. Upon testing the seal around the door, I saw where the gasket touches the front of the machine on the hinge side so I A. Put toilet paper inside around the rubber door ring and brought the vacuum to around 1300 mtorr then sprayed food dye around the outside. Result. No Leak. B. I then cleaned it all and brought the vacuum to around 1500 and sprayed soap water all around the door seal. No bubble seen inside the chamber however when I release the drain valve and pulled the rubber I saw bubble coming from the foam located behind the rubber seal in the area of the bad welds I have noticed. It appears my chamber is leaking through the welds.Most of the bad welds are near the front within 8" or so. This mean I must take the foam off the tank in this area and test again spraying soap water on the outside of the tank on the weld areas. This still does not clear up why that without the tray holder I can get down to 346 mtorr within 30 min. Well at least one leak has been discovered. I still plan on testing the vac sensor as you instructed on your video. You have been so much help brother. Any advice going forward would be welcome. The unit was purchased in 2018. 2018+5=2023
Any chance you contacted HR about this problem before 2023? Any documentation? I wish you the best. Watch out for the coils around the outside of the chamber. Keep in touch.
@@Philat4800feet Will do buddy. I am taking care of my dad 50 mile round trip. Lately its every day. I plan on working on it this evening when I get home. I will keep you informed. The giveaway was the bubbling soap coming out of the foam on the front of the machine. I plan on using a razor knife and "delicately" cutting it away in the area I believe the leak is. I understand there is a coil wrapped around the drum. I then plan on removing all the foam in at area. Then spray it with soap water under a vacuum. This should give the location. I then will clean the soap away and lightly sand the Styrofoam away. I plan on using JB Weld, letting it dry under vacuum then adding liquid tape over that. Any advise?
Update: I cut away the insulation along the entire length of the drum weld. The bubbles are coming from behind the drum, not along the weld. Very strange. My model of freeze dryer has the drum resting on the back panel. I cannot remove this panel. Unless you have a better idea, I plan on cutting the panel using a dremmel ( for smaller grove) then cut the insulation off the back and continue tracking. I feel it must be coming from the edge of the end somewhere. I do not currently have access to find muchless repair. Any ideas?
Hello. I enjoy watching your videos. They are informative and helpful. I learn things I know nothing about but now I at least have a clue. :) I have only had my HR for about 3 months and immediately had an issue but they sent my updated software to the most recent version as of January 2023 that seemed to fix the issue. However, when the machine is vacuum freezing it doesn't stay under the 500 mT stays around 770 to 780. I have only run about 10 or 11 batches. I don't sit and watch it so I don't know if it ever gets to below 500mT at any point in the process but it seems to process the food correctly. Any input or thoughts.
Maybe a dumb question, but isn't it the change in readings as the FD process progresses vs the absolute readings from the sensors that matters? Meaning, does it really matter if they get dirty and the transmission between sensors is lowered? As long as the delta over time is accurate. But if it fixed your issue, I guess it is the dirty wires.
No such thing as a dump question- just an enquiring mind. The upper and lower threshold of the vacuum 500-600 mtorr, measured by the vacuum sensor, is what triggers the heaters to turn on and off. A dirty sensor would alter the mtorr, but should still work but not as accurate. If accuracy matters?
Hi Phil, I have a strange one. Recently my freeze dryer started taking several hours (6 to 8) from batch start to get below 450mT to start the drying phase. After the drying starts the unit dries normally, heaters turn on, when the pressure raises above 600mT the heaters turn off. What I have done on a recent batch is wait until pressure is below 500mT in vaccum freezing (about four hours from batch start) I hit the leaf for manual advance drying starts and the pressure raises and falls as normal with heater on/off and the strange thing is on the first heater cycle the pressure raises above 600. Heaters turn off and the pressure drops well below where I manual advanced and the cycle continues. Seems like the vaccum pressure sensor heater filament is dirty, the pressure sensor doesn't work normally under cold vaccum with cold water vapor but when the heaters turn on there is warm water vapor under vaccum in the chamber which aids the dirty vaccum sensor heaters, possible? Just a thought, looking forward to your thoughts, I think I need a new vaccum sensor what do you think Ps, my last batch with excessive vaccum freeze time ended the cycle with a final mT of 188.
@@Philat4800feet oddly enough, I didn't have a problem with the FD until after I watched your video! (I'm sure no cause/effect but the timing was perfect.) I woke up this morning to an "unable to acheive vacuum" error, but the door seal clearly proves a good vacuum! Thanks again for posting this info, as cleaning the vacuum sensor is one of the likely culprits.
@@Philat4800feet --- For that Model---> Does this connector come with the fitting to connect to the JIC fitting on the HR Pumps? or is there something else I need to purchase? I need to validate that my Low Profile Oil-Less VAC PUMP is not working before I start the GREAT CHASE on a possible vacuum leak with the HR UNIT.... I have already completed the FULL BLOWN famous "FELIX FIX"...
