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HAS DOCTOR WHO ALWAYS HAD A WOMAN PROBLEM? 

The Sense Sphere - The Doctor Who Podcast
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Science Fiction has tended to represent masculinity and men in greater numbers and positions of power and authority. Has that changed? Has Dr Who played its part in reinforcing this or played its part in changing representation of women before and behind the camera?
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28 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 48   
@Problembeing
@Problembeing 4 дня назад
Barbara was a kick-arse companion. She's one of the strongest female companions out of all of them. Brains, beauty and personality.
@RaymondWilliams-uu1ns
@RaymondWilliams-uu1ns 3 дня назад
True! I think Verity wanted a strong modern woman like herself as a companion. She was friends with Jackie and she picked very well. Casting is everything. I listened to an old video of Director John Carpenter talking about Rio Bravo and he said the reason why it’s such a great movie is because of the great casting. Everyone suits their roles perfectly. And something that has went badly wrong in Dr Who in recent years is not just bad writing, although that’s the major problem, but the bad casting. The last two main leads have been miscast. Whittaker was never Dr material and Ncuti seems to have been picked because RTD fancied him. The companions were dull and became Tick boxing casualties with no actual intentions to write them proper characters. Only Bradley Walsh and Millie Gibson have been decent. Although, as good as Millie is I think her character is bland and a light weight Rose. Too generic with no originality about her.
@Timelordsboots
@Timelordsboots 2 дня назад
💯 I can’t agree with this enough Barbara is superb.
@jimhillis3745
@jimhillis3745 4 дня назад
The show is full of excellent female characters, whether intelligent and resourceful Companions such as Leela, Sarah Jane, Ace, Barbara to great villains such as Lady Peinforte, Helen A, Lady Adrasta to Catherine Medici: the only wooden spoon was Jodie Whittaker whose non performance helped to derail the show giving us the worst take on the Doctor to date- until Gatwa arrived.Catherine Tate blew the Donna character with her “It’s a pity you weren’t still a woman..” Crqp.There has been misandry in Dr Who and especially of late(“I’ve had an upgrade.”) Dreadful.
@Changeling_cosplay
@Changeling_cosplay 3 дня назад
Jodie was great and the hate for her is unjustified
@GilliamSL
@GilliamSL 4 дня назад
more a RTD problem
@iluv2b
@iluv2b 4 дня назад
During the classic era, there were absolutely no issues with female characters; be they protagonists or antagonists, they tended to be well-written, with no overall points needing to be proven. During the 2005 onwards era, almost year by year, there arose a dubious, increasing need to assert their value, establish that they were either the bedrock of the Doctors successes, or a villainous force to be reckoned with. Consequently, so attenuated had become the Doctor's ability to genuinely 'stand on his own two feet' and be a major narrative component that, by the time Gatua's incarnation arrived, those incessant tears may have been all he had left to offer. Many thanks, Brendan and all, for another typically excellent debate. All the best for now. Paul
@gregsmith7949
@gregsmith7949 4 дня назад
Classic Who is full of strong females. Beginning with the Pertwee era, there was a long string of smart, resourceful, independent women traveling in the Tardis. Liz was a scientist, Jo and Sarah were feminists, Lela would kill you without a second thought, Romana was just as smart as the Doctor, Nyssa was brilliant, Teegan was feisty and would put the Doctor in his place, and Ace destroys Daleks with baseball bats. The "weakest" female companions were Peri and Mel, but the classic series has a great track record of presenting strong female characters...and that's not even getting into villians.
@noblerees1
@noblerees1 4 дня назад
We felt that though there is a vibe in Nuwho that the Doctor seems to need a woman to be a better time lord or man. That’s a big shift
@Changeling_cosplay
@Changeling_cosplay 3 дня назад
Leela got really screwed over as a character and deserved a much better heroic exit than being married off. Sure there was a Cartmel master plan issue to retcon but whatever.
@noblerees1
@noblerees1 3 дня назад
That was such a weak, break of character exit
@Changeling_cosplay
@Changeling_cosplay 3 дня назад
Thank God we never had Ben Steed write for Doctor Who. His output for B7 was truly awful. I don’t like lazy ‘Battle of the Sexes’ storylines.
@eastlynburkholder3559
@eastlynburkholder3559 3 дня назад
Ace was flawed and spunky. I like Lela. I like Romana.
@PaulRichards-vz4pl
@PaulRichards-vz4pl 3 дня назад
Barbara was a strong intelligent companion who had the bravery to stand up to the Aztecs. Vicki was intelligent and brave and saved the day in The Space Museum. Liz Shaw was intelligent being a scientist. Leela was probably the strongest companion defending the Doctor on multiple occasions and had a strong personality. Ace of course was able to defend herself against the enemies. The modern version tends to over do the role of companions. There’s also an element of putting the Doctor down which I never liked. Eccleston, Smith & Capaldi all got slapped across the face by female characters. I don’t think it’s equality if you write it like that and modern Who writers just don’t get the balance right. The Doctor is the brightest character and shouldn’t be made to look stupid or incompetent. They over compensate in New Who. I always feel that the Doctor isn’t the representation of the audience but that’s the job of the companion. I think RTD never really fully understood this. I do agree Brendan that it has all become too soap opera. Sutekh concerned about Ruby and her adopted mother is very soap opera and laughable. Excellent discussion from you all.
@eastlynburkholder3559
@eastlynburkholder3559 3 дня назад
The job of a parent is to raise a child with skills and good habits and abilities so they can take care of themselves as adults and another person if they choose to do that. Female child or make child. Women need to know how to hold a job, pay bills, maybe mow the yard. The males need to know and females to how to cook for themselves, sew a button on a shirt, basic life skills.
@Changeling_cosplay
@Changeling_cosplay 3 дня назад
Part of the reason Mel needed a rehabilitation was the fact she was so badly written in the classic series. It’s a shame RTD now thinks it’s a good idea to kill her off.
@noblerees1
@noblerees1 3 дня назад
Yes being her back to kill Her off while lesser characters drag on in boring character arcs
@timescales
@timescales 3 дня назад
Thanks for having me on Brenden. This was fun. -Grego
@edwardbracken5211
@edwardbracken5211 4 дня назад
Amongst the travesty of the Destination Skaro skit, is the awful line "half an hour ago I was this brilliant woman". Any time the Doctor met another of his incarnations it was always self deprecating, so this line is embarrassing, moreover cause it's not even true
@Changeling_cosplay
@Changeling_cosplay 3 дня назад
@@edwardbracken5211 Not quite accurate. 14 didn’t meet 13. This is more like when 13 said that half an hour ago she was a white haired Scotsman.
@edwardbracken5211
@edwardbracken5211 3 дня назад
@Changeling_cosplay yes I get you, I just meant that in the Three Doctors and Five Doctor, they were rude or mischievous about each other's shortcomings
@GorensteinMedia
@GorensteinMedia 3 дня назад
With the greatest of respect, I found some of Time Scales' talking points almost unlistenable. I very much respect you guys for having him on, because I myself would have struggled to keep a straight face in this conversation. The idea that a girl's life is affirmed because (and I quote) "This finally means that I can be the Doctor too." is just... bleh! No one can _"be the Doctor"_ because *_that's a fictional character!!_* You can't aspire to be a character, and characters are not required to be everyone in the world. Unless his friend meant something else? Perhaps it's that she can see herself represented as the things the Doctor embodies, like science and heroism, or even kindness? Yes, I am aware the cast and crew of the show bleat all the time about how Doctor Who encourages young people to study science. But if they do, then they are getting into it for the wrong reasons. And that was _before_ he started denying the 2016 election - good grief!
@noblerees1
@noblerees1 3 дня назад
I see your point.i don’t subscribe to the need to be seen on tv to affirm myself. As a gay closeted kid I didn’t need boy George bronson beat erasure etc - they frightened me even more! I want good authentic characters not stereotyped one dimensional characters.
@Realsuperdoctor3
@Realsuperdoctor3 4 дня назад
Never that I can see it ever had a problem until 2018 but never in Doctor Who, the companions have been mainly female.
@noblerees1
@noblerees1 3 дня назад
It is how women are used in Dr Who that is the issue now
@jedsithor
@jedsithor 2 дня назад
Short answer - it didn't but it does now.
@noblerees1
@noblerees1 2 дня назад
I agree
@RaymondWilliams-uu1ns
@RaymondWilliams-uu1ns 3 дня назад
There is nothing wrong in having a strong female companion. As long as it doesn’t lead to the emasculating of the Doctor. Which is what happened in Star Beast. The past female companions trusted the Doctor implicitly. They never questioned his methods or reasoning. They never had cause to put him in his place.
@noblerees1
@noblerees1 3 дня назад
That is my very point Raymond. Thanks for making it clearer than me. I have no problem with some of the amazing companions and representation of women in dr who. But the use of female characters seems to be changing or evolving and the doctors character becomes weaker and diminished- correlation or by accident?
@RaymondWilliams-uu1ns
@RaymondWilliams-uu1ns 3 дня назад
@@noblerees1 On the whole Dr Who has got the companions right. The Susan character was let down by incoming writers forgetting she was an Alien and wrote her as a human teenager. Barbara was strong throughout. Vikki suffered the same problems as Susan as did Victoria but from there on in its a success. Zoe and Liz Shaw portrayed as highly intelligent scientists. Jo was resourceful. Sarah Jane strong, independent, intelligent. Leela a Warrior with natural instincts that protected her and the Doctor on occasion. Romana 1&2 were highly confident Timelady. They respected the Drs intelligence and experience but he also respected her intelligence and spoke to her as a equal. It’s the 80s companions that suffer from being underdeveloped. Especially Nyssa but even Tegan main personality trait was moaning and she never seemed enjoy traveling with the Doctor. Peri and Mel were let down by the scripts. Both fine actresses and deserved better storylines than they got. It could be argued that Nu Who females companions have been overwritten and the relationship suffered because it was romanticised. Whereas in the Classic era it was never in doubt that it was platonic. Except with Romana 2 in Paris😊 In the Dr Dances the 9th Doctor is basically fighting with Captain Jack for the right to Rose’s hand. That is expanded in the Tennant era when it becomes will they won’t they? Martha fancies the Dr. She is well written and I like character but even Freema has said that was a mistake and I agree. It weakened her character. Donna was superb. Back to a platonic relationship. Two friends going on an adventure. Why didn’t Moffat realise that was the way to go? Amy was a super confident young woman. Despite her meant to have been under 4 psychiatrists in her youth, Karen Gilllan plays her like she’s got everything under control. Especially men. The Dr throws her because she can’t understand or get the better of him. He’s a challenge. Whereas the other men are a sheer pushovers for her. River Song is arrogant and over confident. She also marries the Dr. Clara started off okay but the character didn’t work with Capaldi’s Doctor. Her getting freaked out when he becomes an older man never made sense after she had already seen his predecessors. Especially, John Hurts War Doctor. Did Moffat forget that? Bizarre. She ends up using the Dr as a Taxi Driver and he ends up like her puppy. Desperately trying to please her at every turn. Bill Potts was a good character. Her relationship with the Dr as Teacher and pupil is very similar to the 7th Dr and Ace. That works!!! I didn’t understand why she needed to be killed off other than the fact Chibnall didn’t want her. Why? A Black companion portrayed by a very good actress. That’s another strange decision. I don’t think think Chibnall could deal with a strong personality like Pearl Mackie. A bad script handed to her and she’s not going to keep her mouth shut. Chibnall gets his companions all wrong. Too many but Yaz has no personality whatsoever and is possibly the stupidest companion to date. Go Chibnall! Diversity is never enough. You have to create an interesting character. Mandip Gill could be a great actress for all I know but she was given nothing to work with and came across as bright as cardboard cutout. Ruby Sunday is a generic soap teenage character. A poor man’s Rose. Millie Gibson is a fine actress but there is nothing unique about her character. She comes across as fairly bright but is just out to have fun. There is nothing of any interest there for me. Badly written companion. So to sum up. The Classic got the companions right more times than not. Nu Who made got it right once with Donna😊
@Changeling_cosplay
@Changeling_cosplay 3 дня назад
I think you know I’ve always had a problem with Romana’s ‘regeneration’ playing into stereotypes that women are vain and need male approval for how they look. So demeaning for a character who should be a distinguished Time Lady.
@noblerees1
@noblerees1 3 дня назад
That was a problematic regeneration cycle to watch
@Changeling_cosplay
@Changeling_cosplay 3 дня назад
@@noblerees1 It wasn’t a regeneration. She wasn’t injured she just wanted another face because she was vain
@triplejazzmusicisall1883
@triplejazzmusicisall1883 3 дня назад
LUST IN SPACE 1998 Vhs release... Does anyone remember the VHS Reeltime released called ‘LUST IN SPACE? It was released in 1998. This was the Time when they would put out various VHS DW material which obviously were made on a budget that made the budget of original DW look good. Still, some of the releases were interesting. This is what was written on the back of the VHS tape. Cover blurb: DOCTOR WHO travelled with the most gorgeous girls in the Cosmos. But was there any Lust in Space? DOCTOR WHO is on trial - and the charge is sexism! The scene is set, the witnesses called. We expose DOCTOR WHO’s final taboo!! It’s everything you wanted to know about sex (in DOCTOR WHO) but were afraid to ask! GIRLS! GIRLS! GIRLS! Lust in Space features - SOPHIE ALDRED, CAROLE ANN FORD, KATY MANNING, WENDY PADBURY, SARAH SUTTON and ANNEKE WILLS. WARNING: NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY It is interesting that last line. I wonder what would be written and presented today. I remember Katie Manning was the main lead and there were Ogrons running around those concrete carparks with a faux court trial was taking place inside an assumed building. My question is, have we become too serious, even excessively self-victim obsessed? I personally believe we have lost a lot of our humour and ability to laugh at ourselves. .
@triplejazzmusicisall1883
@triplejazzmusicisall1883 3 дня назад
Excellent discussion post again. Intersting and engaging as usual. Why do people always equate 'powerful' as a strength and therefore powerful women are great and in staying with this logic that then infers women who might be gentle, and tender being not as important or strong. This is where everyone out there on this crazy planet goes astray. My love for the character of Liz Shaw has nothing to do with strength. I thought she was awesome because of her intellect and intelligence. Pertwee, who to be honest with my opinion could be a bit of a misogynist Doctor came round to respect Liz highly and they were equals and they were great together. As much as I like Katie Manning, Jo for me was a bit of a backwards step. Someone who is frightened and scared to stand up to a bully but still does anyway demonstrates more courage than a domineering loud person doing the same. Strength comes from other qualities and does not have to be stereotypically viewed as someone who holds strong opinions and wants to express them loudly. I, personally for example do NOT consider Donald Trump a man of strength. In fact, I think of him as weak and pathetic. To many people including RTD have made this error of believing they have to present women as forthright and outspoken. It is fine to do so as both males and females can be forthright. Yet both can also be gentle, tender and kind - and that is a strength too. A great example is the Fifth Doctor who so many disparaged as weak and feeble. Those people were wrong, and he showed this by sacrificing his own life to save Peri, a companion he really had only known for two stories. I get what Peter was saying way back when Jodie was cast. That and the fact he was completely and deliberately taken out of context was cruel, sad and self-righteous behaviour by many. There too lays a big issue in that certain demographics now deem 'men' as needing to be anything but strong whilst wanting every other group in society to stand tall and with pride. What gives one group the right to think they can instruct which people/groups in society need to show the stereotypical characteristic of strength i.e. powerful, and who should pull back. That is self-righteousness and pious and both those traits are negative and dangerous when made predominant, even expected, to be the dominant personality of an individual or mentality of a group. This is why, IMO, we should all take a chill pill (I am not referring to the panel) and just aim to be the best person we can without all the labels, definitions and infighting which today seems more pronounced than ever and cause for division.
@triplejazzmusicisall1883
@triplejazzmusicisall1883 3 дня назад
There are always changes and movements in society and hopefully most for the good but have we as human beings had tendencies to push movements too far and perhaps too quickly without caution? Second question, Is it right to try and bring about equality by reversing bigoted behaviours where the once mistreated get to avenge past offenders of 'isms'? Do two wrongs make a right or is that to fickle a concept for modern society? Sorry but i love questions; not so good with the answers I'm afraid. Liz Shaw was brilliant. I loved her character.
@triplejazzmusicisall1883
@triplejazzmusicisall1883 3 дня назад
Hugh, were you trying to get someone to realign your computer-camera? At first I thought you were putting your thumb down to imply you didn't agree with the other commentators. I'm a bit slow and it took me sometime to realise your were trying to re-adjust your computer as your head almost kept dropping off the lower screen? Glad you didn't drown.
@gladiator652004
@gladiator652004 3 дня назад
Very interesting discussion. I wish they'd given more agency to Susan Foreman and to the first female Doctor.
@gladiator652004
@gladiator652004 3 дня назад
I wrote pieces on those points! politicsandlawofdoctorwho.blogspot.com/2019/03/desperately-tweaking-susan.html politicsandlawofdoctorwho.blogspot.com/2021/01/is-doctor-imprisoned-by-sexism.html
@wetsox278
@wetsox278 3 дня назад
What seems to be completely overlooked here is that Doctor Who represented both men and women as they were during that era. Were women viewed as more of an add on during the 60's and part of the 70's? Absolutely because that was society at that time. It was a time of clear sexual roles in society, right or wrong it was what it was. It was not progressive, Doctor Who has never been progressive, it was just reflective of the times until recently. Doctor Who until recently has always represented the viewing masses. It is only recently with Chibnall and RTD that we have gone from representing the masses to pandering to the minority groups. Ask yourself how many tutu wearing gay black men do you know in your own personal life? How many transgender people do you know? Compare that to how many regular straight males and females you knew in the 60's. The reason Doctor Who died was they stopped making a show that the viewing masses could relate to.
@Changeling_cosplay
@Changeling_cosplay 3 дня назад
@@wetsox278 It’s a bit naive to think that trans and gay people didn’t exist back then, they absolutely did and it wasn’t a good thing that they lacked representation in the media. Gay people were being sent to prison and trans people recieved ECT in mental hospitals. Women as an add on? Again, that’s a terrible thing. Women couldn’t even get a credit card without a man’s permission before 1973. We have made progress. We’re not going to wind things back to the 60’s.
@RaymondWilliams-uu1ns
@RaymondWilliams-uu1ns 3 дня назад
Spot on. RTD hates us older fans. He thinks we view ourselves as the Gatekeepers to Dr Who. He wanted to destroy that myth with his new version. To Hell with canon and what us old farts think Dr Who is. This is RTD show now with his new rules. It has failed Massively! You can’t turn a 2500 yr Alien into a horny 30 yrs old human male, which is what he did in Rogue, and expect fans to accept this as the same character from the past 60 years. The truth is, RTD genuinely believed he could replace us older fans with newer ones who believe in the same things he does. Unfortunately, that new audience never existed in any large number. Millions have left and won’t come back. He might have gained some new viewers but when you aim a show at a tiny majority of the population ( 1.6%) then that’s what happens. You get a niche minority audience. Want a Mass audience? Aim it at the masses. That includes the 98% heterosexual population. Which despite all the talk about inclusivity seemed to have been completely forgotten about 😂 When the Dr Who Bad Wolf producers realise that then they might have a chance of making a Hit show.
@Changeling_cosplay
@Changeling_cosplay 3 дня назад
@@wetsox278 Something being society at the time doesn’t make it right. This is why representation actually matters when it’s done right. Not tokenism, actual well written characters.
@wetsox278
@wetsox278 День назад
@@Changeling_cosplay society is the only true measure of the peoples will, but again yes it would be far more palatable if you weren't trying to jam the poorly acted message down peoples throats. Many times it has been successfully done in the past in a non abrasive way. RTD basically has said that he doesn't care if the real fans go and touch grass, we will be replaced by a new audience. Well good luck to him.
@wetsox278
@wetsox278 День назад
@@RaymondWilliams-uu1ns it bewilders me why RTD thought that an overwhelming majority of straight people would want a tutu wearing nancy boy as a new Doctor. I mean even the majority of the straight women that watch would want a manly Doctor. But RTD has gone off the rails he no longer cares about the real fans that care about the legacy of the show.
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