Has Nvidia’s A100 Chip Met Its Match With Biren’s BR100 Processor? | WSJ U.S. vs. China 

Compiler support is one reason the x86 architure has stayed around for so long.

The point is it doesn't have to be as good. The more question is can it be a substitute/work-around to the American Lead Sanction. And the larger questions can China have substitutes/work-arounds to all American Lead Sanction, If it can we are seriously screwed!

@@bobcharles7716 I mean they will eventually, and nobody is under the illusion they won’t. However this is not it, and it will take a long the to steal the IP and recreate these technologies domestically. The idea is that by that point china will already be weakened to the point where they can no longer challenge the US for tech supremacy.

China doesn't have to beat the US pound for pound (or in this case, nm for nm / flop for flop). It just needs to be good enough to overcome US sanctions (which it is doing, at least so far).

@@sleepyjoe4529 Hay that is kind like what I said. So great mines think alike.

The whole nm thing is bunch of marketing fluff since below 90nm, if one actually measured a transistor on an electron microscope, they wouldn't be able to pinpoint any component of the transistor being 3nm.

@@Uruz7Laevatein fin width is 3nm

@@Uruz7Laevatein ASML actual bought most of their patents (including the most critical ones) from Taiwan after Canon refused to buy them resulted ASML (a 3 trailer parking lot startup) with dominant market position, namely *the immersive EUV (which is currently most advanced right now and ASML's main product)*

The amazing fact is that they can do it consistently across millions of transistors. Making one, incredibly hard for sure, but doable and they could discard failures. Making billion transistors with nearly no defects.... It's magic.

@@honza970 alot of the procedures are done with automation via an algorithm so it's not to extraordinary.

not if they get BANNED

Free market capitalism for thee but not for me.

heck, any company in the world would do us a favor for achieving that!

The world has been waiting so long for a replacement of the US chips. Now US monoploy game is over！

​@@johntang4108🤡

Asml controled by us patent on it so they cant sell it freely to any one

@@zunriya there is no patent control over the hole AMSL and without the German Zeiss mirror is nothing working anyway. By the way, the patent you could mean expires in 2027, just four years left ;)

@@derbender9264 yet the US is still able to force amsl to ban the sale of their most advanced machines to China. Europeans are weak

@@derbender9264 yeah they just system integrator they didnt made everything them self like zeis cymer etc, asml depend on other vendors

@@zunriya There absolutely not „just“ system integrator, if it would be „just“ , everybody could and would do it. But its AMSL with is doing it. As i said in my first comment, no one will get really far without working together ;) But what is the point you want to make ?

The Biren BR100 is three years old dude.

@@johnsmith1953x No mate BR100 was launched in August last year.

@@fury6280 No it was NOT. Some of us had prototypes of it YEARS ago.

@@johnsmith1953x why are you taking prototypes and engineering samples into account? By this logic nvidia H100 was already in risk manufacturing in Q2 2021.

Br100 is cheaper than Nvidia. It is just underated.

if a government agency (NSA or ccp's MSS) need a system, its not hard to imagine or uncommon that a custom solution is designed to efficiently meet their needs. instead of using a public one size fit all system.

If they have to use those chips due to sanctions then they will develop the tools. It makes no economic sense for anyone to rival CUDA today, but if you put artificial barriers they will throw money at it.

@@PD-co9gv ROCm lolz....how is it....can beat CUDA????

It depends on the incentive and cost, CUDA is used because it's the easiest option for AI/ML for hobbyist/researchers. But if an government-backed-entity needs something they will fund support for it.

@@mashirokobato5509 Yes, it can beat CUDA. The choice of CUDA is arbitrary.

Huawei's industrial espionage from 2000 to today. That tells us a lot about China.

@@sammiller6631 proof?

You must have been in industry a long time ago. It's been almost 20 years since I've heard a process being measured in microns, not since 0.13u. They switched to using nm, 90nm.

*This chinese, tainwanese and american walk into a bar, the chinese guy says to the taiwanese, "we are going to take your land man" the taiwanese guy replies "oh yeah, over my dead FAB you are" and the American intervenes looking squarely at the chinese and professes "just because you can't make your own semi conductors does not mean you need to have a 'chip' on your shoulder"*

@@alwanexus yes, my whole point.

@@vivafreedom4947 clever

@@robertmichael6943 *USA made sure china either opened up and liberalized or perish by "Capitalism with USA Characteristics"* Inflation and 2023 global recession will make the C P C feel the wrath of their own BS

Well... not when you completely ban a product from being sold in your market.

Dishonest trade sanctions does the opposite!

Yes. Sure. Wish China can beat.

@Yojimbo I'm American it's sad that humans can't compete against each other to better humanity as a whole and instead compete against political agenda and start wars but I know as a whole the situation is very complicated and humans aren't ready to asend to stage in evolution.

The consumer doesn't matter once globalism falls apart and the world goes to war again...

yeah lol

You are correct. All these chips being discussed are in fact hardware that support parallel scientific computation. GPUs were used incidentally some decades back by writing code that can be run on GPUs, now the hardware are AI specific and they are more AI specific than the GPUS of yesteryears.

btw AI workload mentioned is AI training workload which is far cry to the running workload which can be set up on FPGA or smth later

STEAL STEAL STEAL 😂

@@benkem7584 Steal the things the America doesn't have.

Ah yes, great for China to learn how to steal NVidia's IP more efficiently.

@@benkem7584 US no steal? Read US early history of how it stole textile technology from Britain to advance its own textile industry in New England and the South.

@@benkem7584 Yes! Anglos are known for stealing... know history😂😂

bruh, keep dreaming about China made gpus that will suck power even doing nothing

@@baoquoc3710 20 years ago everybody said the same about the Chinese space program, 10 years ago everybody laughed at Chinese car manufacturing, the fact some ppl still think a nation like China can be kept down in 2023 is borderline insane to me, just watch, China will dominate gpu market within a decade.

but that required experience, which is hard to achieve

as a designer i get what you meant, and sorry making your life hard =)

If design is easy, why no one else can excel silicon valley group of Nvidia, amd, Intel ,Qualcomm, Apple

If that was the case competition against NVIDIA's dominance would have surfaced long ago and from America or Europe not China! If you cannot beat them with intellect go for good old trade sanctions, that is disgusting!

first step ****

About a year ago China has already announced mass production of chip making equipment, 7nm and 5nm chips as well as a carbon based chip it also announced it's chip industry has entered warp speed. An year later they must have come really far as no one can buy those chips in mass quantities.

Well, the Chinese are GREAT at STEALING tech.

Then go buy Intel's. By some accounts, their cards are good enough when it comes to price-for-performance metrics, especially in some use cases. Although, if we just go by pure performance, they still lag behind the duo.

Bottom line is, don't rely WSJ for chip making related information.

I think you know nothing about China's chips industry. China is already tier 1 player in testing (both hardware and software), and maybe tier 2 in packaging. Even for designing part, China has some domestic backup choices. The weakest point is in manufacturing, especially the manufacturing tools.

@Xu Chen so many worlds but zero information, paper dragon. Enjoy paying for all the fraud in the Chinese semiconductor industry.

China will get there, because of its national will and its intelligent and hardworking people. And US arrogance reminds China of the colonial story again. Yes, it’s difficult. But is it more difficult than Chinese acquisition of nuclear war head and Chinese catching up space station?! I doubted And China also has the most important card of all: the market!

Even Nvidia founder and CEO is Chinese lol

They'll protect their monopoly from China. The lobbyists will make sure of it. They've already started years ago of rehashing similar propaganda they used against Japan in the 80s-90s.

Yes. I wish China should do it. This will be good for whole world.

The equipment to make the chips in fabs is ASML a European company.

That's not going to happen, China chip industry will be the biggest failure of China's endeavour on reaching independency, as times passes the gap will be even signifcantly larger than it is today, it's a bit more obvious now what will happen in future, all advanced economies including Europe will follow U.S, gradually China's economy will be departed from all these economies, and all the scientific/technological/industrial collaborations between the advanced world and China will reduce to it's lowest level, China will have a far worse situation than Soviet/Russia, it will be left with it's highest unemployment rate and poverty, in 2 or 3 decades it will be left decades behind in every technological or scientific field there it is, and like every other authoritarian regime in the history of mankind, they will spend all their money on suppressing opposition and keeping their military afloat, of course unless the CCP's regime falls by uprise of Chinese people which highly unlikely.

🤦🏻‍♂️, TSMC and co get their producing machinery from an European company

@@JigilJigil I agree, many companies have left and planned (apple) manufacturing infrastructure in India and other countries as we move forward.

They keep saying China will be more advanced within 3 years, since 2012

@@tluangasailo3663 yes but you know US is trying to prevent them from advancing? Doing well in life is hard while you are racially attacked because someone is jealous of you.

@@tluangasailo3663 that statement is generally true. Has it not gotten more advanced every year? The only country that has not gotten more advanced than last year are the ones at war.

@@j.c.4192 Ukraine's military has got more advanced than last year with the addition of HIMARS.

@@sammiller6631 All aid. Not by themselves.

Chicoms are notorious for stealing tech.

No because H100 cannot be sold in China

The article is about how Nvidia may have met their match. This means someone is getting close to Nvidia in terms of capabilities. A comparison between flagship chips would make sense.

Do you test the Biren, don't worry, China will be overtake Nvidia' just like Boeing and space station, 5G' U. S now have no laverage to China

@@tshirtnjeans4829 The A100 can't either so what's the difference??

@@Drone256 Nvidia got around it by duct taping components of A100 with some older parts

Yes. I know it. Monopoly will collapse soon. That case you and me win.

Mate, the AI market is about to explode. There will be synthetic workers to replace human workers, in many aspects of work, very soon. The point is to cut off China from making it there first. At this time, the AI software in china is actually slightly better developed than in the western world. China might get to AGI first, and on western chips. This would be the biggest upset in the history of humanity. No wonder the west panics, and just at the right time.

No need for that crypto mining is done

China doesn't bear the burden of production. Taiwan isn't China. Both Intel and AMD built many fabs in the US and EU.

@@sammiller6631 Taiwan companies have fabs and factories in mainland China. Taiwan and China mainland are both very closely integrated than you think.

China never believed in free market and have destroyed the global free market with it's viciousness.

Never existed.

Yes. I am still looki g for it. US wont show it.

dude, this is data centers, not the whole graphics card industry that you want to care about price to performance 🙄

@@baoquoc3710 nvidia pisses on all of us industry and consumers.

100 is the most common name for any first generation chip design.

@@Deecon1332 you just didn't get the joke :|

ofc they are. look what they are trying to do. They literally spend 500 million dollars last year to spew Anti China propaganda. US knows that they are done for it and that china is rising more and more every single year. they cant handle it so they provoke china to go to war with them and destabilize the asian world.

3nm is just a name, what’s the transistor density? Is this still finfet based? EDA 2.0? Examples? What’s the name of the product for layout, verification, etc? Photoresist, using which chemistry and who is providing the light source?

China is just claim claim claim, with nothing of any consequences, its like they announced solving jet engine problems every 5 months of so but continue on struggling

Yes. That would be consumers win like you and me.

America wants to maintain it's imperialistic amitions and dominance in the world - Washington hawks won't let another country challenge America's dominance.

China's view of the world is anything but peaceful.

China has not intention of making the world a better place, they want to rule the world, do what ever they want , take no responsibility and respond to no one, they want a world with no human rights and human value, just take a look at covid pandemic, they made the virus, millions of people died around the world, China didn't take any responsibility, and instead pointed their fingers at everyone else, then they have treated their own people like slave prisoners.

@Reverend Boaz And yet China supports the Taliban government no matter how much it oppresses half its population (woman)... but then again, China is big in oppressing people, isn't it?!?!?!?!?

@Reverend Boaz The UN human rights commission wanted to go to China to ask these questions, but China said no!!!!

You understand the #WALKINGTHEPLANCK 👌❤️🧲🌎 #PERIODICVIDEOS

Easy, the US will invade Canada and take the water it needs.

why nvidia help a competitor like Biren and what kind of help are we talking here? how deep?

They are getting tax breaks from damned politicians

Lol. These chips aren't being used to play some silly video games.

Ummm, gaming has always been at the frontier of computing technology, especially GPUs. Enthusiast gaming PC builders have always been the target for Nvidia’s top line GPUs.

@@lord_of_love_and_thunder Ummm, data center servers and supercomputers has always been at the frontier of computing technology, not gaming.

Whatever you say, Wumao.

@@irisacchi ! You'll be jobless . I'll take it . 🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫

But Star Citizen is still in beta...after 12 years and a half Billion in funding.

@@sammiller6631 that game will be in beta or as I like to call it a tech demo when we are both collecting pensions.

Except TSMC can't make it alone so that's not going to get anywhere.

Nah, China won't sacrifice all of its achievement over the years by reuniting Taiwan through war. It's not the same as Russia or Prussia in terms of thoughts and strategy.

Because it's not well researched lol. Let's be real, if you could compete with Nvidia easily, they wouldn't have averaged 25% earnings per share growth over 10 years. Rofl.

@@Tential1 Things move on. They once thought that about IBM. TSMC wont last forever either. Technology moves fast.

uhm, no

You have a fetish for semiconductors?

yep, this is an extremely interesting topic and would love more content about it!

They actually made a video on that already.

@@therealdeal6659 where ? Is it?

This is vague. What do you mean by “China beginning to investing in photonics based integrated circuits”? And What makes that technology different from what dutch company ASML is manufacturing today?

Can you provide 5 example of technologies that China has invented in the last 50 years that has *benefitted* mankind? That should be simple since "Chinese are the smartest race around" ... So, provide them if you can....

@@covertpuppytwo3857 Covid 19.

This is your fantasy

meanwhile U.S. is sending all of its Chinese talents back to China and making China so much stronger lol

AHAHAHAH too bad for CCP. Soon all the chips are manufactured in America.

That was my thinking at the end of the video when they said Nvidia already announced a chip that is faster/ more powerful. They already had that in the release pipeline but just accelerated it because of the competition.

ITS CALLED BUSINESS.

NVIDIA loves to Sandbag🤣🤣

@@letmelick Well AMD is welcome to release a better one.

Planned obsolescence in ECON.

Except China controls the lower end of the supply chain. Good luck sourcing rare earth materials.

The point is to block China from getting access to the chips in general. It doesnt matter if u create new middle man companies.

@@rv8804 what’s that gonna solve? The world needs to work together and the Us needs to be okay with other world powers

Wrong. China will reclaim Taiwan in 2049 like it or not.

@@SanTheAwesumest of course it doesn't resolve anything. But the US politicians only know zero sum game, where if China prospers, in their mind it must means US has suffered. So they would rather hurt everyone just to keep China down.

@@snslifestyleorg China will not reclaim Taiwan. Moving factories back to the West would only strengthen jobs and lessen political unrest even as it cuts corporate profits.

The real question is: How many years is 'a few years'?

A few years? 10-20 years at least, and if that can actually happen, that would be fantastic news

As an analog, why don’t you look at the Chinese auto industry and see what the highest quality and one third the cost results are? And keep in mind that the auto industry has been around for 100 years, and all of the manufacturing techniques has been well refined.

@@pjacobsen1000 2-3.

@@siamcharm7904 You're very optimistic. Perhaps with magic, but that seems unlikely.

Dude go back to billibilli. So many pinks in the comments making their country look bad, just look at your names.

If they succeed before america.

@@danielmarkkula3004 they will, just like 5G and quantum satellite....

I wouldn't trust my life to a made in China chip.

@@NonnofYobiznes lol do you know how many you use haha

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I'm trading with Expert Mrs Dawn fitzpatrick, a regulated broker with FINRA. Met her sometime early last year at a startup funding event. She had some interesting things to say about the state of algorithmic trading today, very obviously I'm seeing the results.

It is many, many times easier to build a space station than a cutting edge chip fab. The reason most countries don't build space stations is that there is no money in it. These things are mostly for national prestige and they cost a lot of money with little return.

North Korea is also going hungry while developing nuclear weapons. Korea, Japan, Taiwan could probably all develop a nuclear weapon is a short time if they felt they needed to.

@@pjacobsen1000 But that is now not 50 years ago. Nuclear weapons were a lot more cutting edge 50 years ago, a lot more. 50 years from now they probably would be printing up chips that TSMC is making today with their school or home printers.

@@bobcharles7716 Could be, nobody can say what the future will bring.

@@pjacobsen1000 1st let not confused just the chip fab as in what TSMC do with the entire supply chain in chips. China want the entire supply Chain in China. TSMC without the rest of the supply Chain not very useful. Let just face it China, the US and the world fell asleep at the wheel and do not have their own fab. TSMC is started by 2 Chinese who worked in TI (Texas Instruments) 20-30 years. You honestly think the other 1.4 billion other Chinese can not reproduce it in short order. Or the other thousands of x-TI employee can reproduce TSMC. It just take money, resource and time. Because reproducing a technology is only a matter of money, resource and time. As for the space station being a prestige project there are many prideful country in the world. Yet none can really say they could do it on their own right now. And one final note generally the reason something is prestigious is because it is difficult to achievement. it is not prestigious if it is easy to achieve, right. The Chinese clearly have a track record of achieving difficult things.

😂

🤣🤣🤣

That is ridiculous.

lol

*yawn*

It’s like the automobile industry Can China compete in that industry? You can buy a car. And drive a car but to build on that is cheap and usable and affordable. Think Korea with Kia. Their cars are cheap and lower quality. And where are they considered in the marketplace How long have they been making cars in Korea This should be a lesson for China You just can’t steal and copy someone else’s technology anymore

You say this with the assumption that the West will sit still and wait for China to catch up with it. It is very easy to steal and copy which is essentially what the Chinese continue to do, but there will always be a place in this world for innovative products and people know and can differentiate what is good from what is not so good.

@@jkbzz "can differentiate what is good from what is not so good." May i know what is "good" is USA "good", what good has USA done for the world recently??? send weapons to Ukraine? was it for Ukraine? or was it benefiting USA;s arms companies, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon..etc.. as their own countryman many of them are homeless, hungry and facing high food prices..they are sending billions to Ukraine.."to help them fight Russians"? USA's recent president hasnt done much good for the world. Yes ppl blame China ..Covid ..bad.. USA vaccine ..good.. but a certain Trump once also spread untruths about Covid, like "it will disappear in April" its nothing big deal. i think USA's Drone have also killed many "innocents" which they just apologise and say its a mistake.. like news of their drones killing a wedding party by mistake.. i dun think USA is any "good" also..

@@genefucarino702 let me burst your bubble a bit. China is now the second biggest car exporter.

@@ruifenghuang1029 Making American / German designed -engineered autos. Nothing they make is an original Chineses made designed. Please name a major independent Chinese auto manufacturer that imports into the United States? This is also true in the the world of chip design/engineering and effects the Chines manufacturing- they can’t do it on their own by themselves

Yes, it does, because of the speed of light. The speed of light limits how much information can travel between transistors inside a single chip. The chip size is physically limited by how clean the silicon crystal can get. Interconnects between chips are very expensive and much slower than on-chip routing. Hence, smaller transistors = more transistors in a chip, and a more capable chip. It makes a huge difference, this is why everyone is talking about it.

@@JurekOK China is developing optic CPU.

@@kongwee1978 Poland is developing an optic CPU. Spain is developing an optic CPU. So what? What matters is - who will sell meaningful quantities of the finished product.

You can believe that paid nonsense only if you don't know anything about chips. If I ask you how will China make a 7nm chips without EUV machines? Can I also ask how will China mass produce these 7nm chips when they can't even produce 14nm on mass?

@@ulikemyname6744 I don't know the technical details but I think SMIC calls it the N+2 process and it uses some kind of lithography machine.

They only have access to DUV litography. It is nowhete near as precise

@@ulikemyname6744 They using 3d stacking method to ram more transitor into 7nm chip without need to reduce size of transitor while using duv.

@@ulikemyname6744 7nm chips can also be produced using DUV, and secondly, 14nm chips are already very common in China, and a large number of cars are using 14nm chips produced in China.

ofc it got literally Washington in its name. its american based Propaganda.

you meant China is beaten by many countries...it also means that US is not too great because it relies on many countries...

ok armchair expert.

@daudazachamleanehubert9730 🙏🙏 exactly

I'm from France, I and two other of my friends tried her immediately, we testified

✅

@Juliana Cruz Thanks to you all for your testimonies

it has helped me greatly I thought the were not real but I will now boldly testify ...

Yawn.....

Yes. Sure. We are waiting China make it