Have EVs Entered The 'Valley Of Death' Phase? 

No smelly fumes when you warm the car up. - who has to warm the car up these days. Isn't the 1980's you know but the 2020's. Modern cars long had the system to close the air vents to bring engine temp up quickly. My Renault Austral also starts up on EV rather then Petrol so engine gets to warm up whilst on EV. I can drive around the town on EV keeping the speed limit so doesn't need to kick in then the petrol kicks in when get outside the town. I live on edge of town so only short journey to get out of the town. Smoother drive. No gears. - driven auto for 10 years and unless put the foot down and hoof it when had Golf GTI never felt the gear change. Perhaps I just am a smooth driver anyway instead of on and off the right foot. Most of my journeys on Motorway on Adaptive Cruise anyway so pretty smooth as pull out when a gap rather then accelerate out into a non-existent gap, and don't feel the need to weave amongst traffic lanes accelerating and breaking into tiny gaps. Just to give you an idea of my driving then Renault CLAIM a 680mile range. Last time I filled up then said 730miles and after a roughly 80mile journey on Motorway then still reckoned 710 when got to parents. 55.9mpg it reckons on just over 4000miles. I will also admit that tend to do 60mph in the inside lane and overtake as necessary. Instant response. No ridiculous turbo lag. - Never had turbo lag on my VW Golfs or even Audi A5. Now have a Renault Austral Full Hybrid so the Hybrid part provides that assistance when am manual and put my foot down. I could induce Turbo Lag by basically just planting my pedal to the floor and takes time however that is piss poor driving and instead if press the pedal in a firm manner then will accelerate quickly (as quick as need to as a safe driver on public roads) without any lag. When you see the size of a Renault Austral Very quiet. - In my Renault Austral then biggest noise is road noise. If can hear them over Wagner on the Stereo. As said am a smooth driver anyway so not sat revving the engine away. Its gets me from A to B. I actually do miss the noise from the Golf GTI when driving hard. Almost nothing to service. - Came with Free Servicing for 3 years. So will have to pay to service in final year and the MOT after 3rd year however my annual mileage is such that services once a year so tend to get done with the MOT. so don't even have to make more jouneys to service. Dave refers to my Full Hybrid as an ICE so I am apparently getting all you get but with an ICE car. Having said that I could do 95% of my journeys with Home Charging alone if could home charge. And thats why I have ICE Car still although in Self Charging format. As per my post lower down then why on earth would I go EV yet., As Dave recognises then EV don't work for everyone.yet.

@@michaelmcnally2331 claiming that an ICE doesn't release stinking fumes is idiotic. I didn't read the rest because of the dishonesty. It's embarrassing 😭

@@hansj5846 🤦‍♂🤦‍♂ Because sometimes people are too stupid that one facepalm isn't enough. What is embarrassing is your lack of reading skills/english understanding and outright false accusation. "No smelly fumes when you warm the car up" is what I quoted from your post so if basing your accusation off that then that was quoting from your post. Oh that would indeed be a tad bit embarrassing not even recognising your own post. What I added was who has to warm the car up these days. Isn't the 1980's you know but the 2020's. Modern cars long had the system to close the air vents to bring engine temp up quickly. My Renault Austral also starts up on EV rather then Petrol so engine gets to warm up whilst on EV. I can drive around the town on EV keeping the speed limit so doesn't need to kick in then the petrol kicks in when get outside the town. I live on edge of town so only short journey to get out of the town. Smoother drive. No gears. - driven auto for 10 Note how included the next part where moved onto smoother drive as in moved on from the smelly emissions. Now I would greatly appreciate if you could point out to me in there where I have claimed that no emissions from an ICE vehicle, stinky or otherwise. Haven't even mentioned emissions in my response so I think you may find the task challenging. What I have said is who warms the car up these days. I remember the 1980's where people would start there car on the drive to warm up before driving off but nobody has to do that with modern ICE. You get in and drive off, no need to warm up before moving off. I haven't made a single mention of emissions or lack of emissions in the post so no idea where making this accusation from unless like the gentlemen that got embarrassed when he claimed on another channel a non-existant advantage of EVs that feel the need to try and deflect. He claimed EV's were much easier in stop start jams due to 1 pedal driving compared to ICE where have to accelerate, brake change gear. He seemed completely unaware that modern ICE have Adaptive Cruise Control and automatic gears and have done so for some time. My ICE car approaches the traffic on Adaptive Cruise, slows down going through the gears and comes to a complete stop. Then when the traffic moves off I don't even have to touch the throttle the car simply moves off when detects the car in front moves off. He was not happy when I pointed out that based on his own post whilst he does 1 pedal driving I do 0 pedal driving in my ICE and could he explain how 1 pedal driving was better then 0 pedal. The rest of the posts go through yours line by line showing how in fact they are not EV advantages compared to ICE. And my original post is unedited so you cannot claim I have changed it as you seem to be in the habit of making false claims. I will accept your unwritten and most likely ungiven apology as been given because I know you won't be able to explain in my post where I have claimed ICE cars don't have smelly emissions You may or may not be interested that the reason given for the move to only selling EV brand new, so second hand ICE only is for Net Zero Carbon emissions targets Big Shock those Carbon emissions as in Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Monoxide are odourless or in real simple terms, they don't smell. It is the removal of non smelling emissions that will remove the Carbon emissions. So you want to be complaining about the odourless emissions not the smelly ones.

Have both and the ice is a far better drive. The electric is a company vehicle and whilst luxurious and fast in a straight line it’s lifeless to drive and not much different to a point and squirt go kart. It’s a Mercedes eqc and in my opinion bang average. However, your points on turbo lag and the quiet are valid. As far as servicing even if there is little to service the actual costs at a main dealer are roughly the same

​@@hansj5846 well lets see if this gets removed a SECOND time. However am saving to text so can paste it in again if is removed. Please show where I claimed that ICE doesn't release Stinking fumes. This was your OWN post I have an EV and regardless of how much I'll save on diesel its clearly a better product in every way. No smelly fumes when you warm the car up. Smoother drive. No gears There is the reference to smelly fumes from you in the second line Now here was mine Recognise the first part, I wander where that is from. Looks like quoting your post there. No smelly fumes when you warm the car up. - who has to warm the car up these days. Isn't the 1980's you know but the 2020's. Modern cars long had the system to close the air vents to bring engine temp up quickly. My Renault Austral also starts up on EV rather then Petrol so engine gets to warm up whilst on EV. I can drive around the town on EV keeping the speed limit so doesn't need to kick in then the petrol kicks in when get outside the town. I live on edge of town so only short journey to get out of the town. Smoother drive. No gears. - Hmm It would seem that I am quoting your post the only time I mention fumes, so please tell me where it is ME that claims that ICE doesn't release fumes. If you bothered to read then you would see that what my post says is who has to warm a car up these days and why people don't have do as they did on the 80's where would start the car and sit in it or leave running stationary to warm up before moving up. What it does not mention at all is any mention of fumes or lack of fumes by myself. There is a pattern there, your post entry followed by my response, followed your next post entry and then my response to it. So please show me where in my unedited post as I haven't edited it do I claim that no stinky fumes from ICE. Perhaps the person who liked your post can help you. You are like the guy on another channel that was trying to make the argument on another channel for EV being superior as in Stop/Start Traffic jam then he one pedal drives his EV whereas an ICE had to accelerate, brake, change gear etc. Clearly the guy was unaware that ICE cars perfectly capable of having Auto Gear Boxes and Adaptive Cruise Control and have done for some time. So I pointed out to him that my car comes up to the back of the traffic and slows down automatically on the Adaptive Cruise Control. Moves down the gears for me on the Auto Gear Box. When the car in front of me starts up then my car starts off as well. So where he was doing 1 pedal driving effort and using 1 foot to operate the car I was in my inferior ICE car able to use 0 pedal effort So could he explain why i had do less but his car was superior in the stop/start traffic jam. He got quite upset when he couldn't. He had made an inaccurate claim in his attempt to promote EV and got caught and he knew it. Of course you could just be like a previous employer and been simply guilty of the same mistake they were of failing to grasp what they had asked, and I will explain your mistake to you. On the exit form of previous employer then was a question that asked Would I recommend Company X as a good place to work to my Network. What that means is that would I recommend them to my Network of people I knew in Industry.. I said No, and then expanded on it by stating that they were the only company in the area in that line of business that was doing a Return to Office. All of the others had either already been remote working before the pandemic or moved to it during Pandemic and were not doing return to work as had got rid of the extra office space. None of my Network is interested in a role where would have to commute to the office. I pointed out that personally a trip to the office was 4 hours of my time. Have to get up earlier so can get ready for work and breakfast, then an hour to the office. Working from home then get my dinner in Lunch Hour as opposed to when I got home and the hour travelling back. They would all have similar issues and are not interested in having to return to the office. As they were returning to the office then then none of my Network would be interested in working for the company, however if people were happy to return to the Office then would be a good place to work, When I was speaking with my former manager then the company had been upset that I had said No. I asked had they read the reset of the answer past the word no, and then took the hump. So I explained to her that I had not said was a bad place to work full stop simply that could not recommend to my Network. I did not have a question asking me if would recommend it as a good place to work. I got asked if would recommend to MY NETWORK who I explained are not interested in working for a company that returning to office. So how could I recommend to MY NETWORK who aren't interested in a return to office that a company that is returning to work would be a good place for them to go and work at. As I said to my former manager clearly the person that read the form didn't understand the difference between Would I recommend Company X as a good place to work and Would I recommend Company X as a good place to work to my Network. She even agreed that the company had not actually read my form through, and even agreed with me that she wouldn't recommend a company that is doing a return to work as a good place to work to people that explicitly want to work from home. So for your own information with what you posted. no smelly fumes. is not the same as no smelly fumes when warm the car up. what I posted in was response was who has to warm the car up. So how is that claiming no stinky fumes from ICE. If you are struggling then get the other person that liked your response to help you. No need to give the apology. I will take it as you are simply hiding with your own embarrassment when you realise your mistake. And you claim I am being dishonest, when you are the one making false claims of what someone is posting. If you had actually read my post then you wouldn't have made false claims and embarrassed yourself. The only embarrassment I am feeling is for you hence the double facepalm and comment in the post that was deleted. I would think more of you if you came back and acknowledged your mistake, however probably the post will be removed instead.

Yes Jay, those golden oldies will be around for long time yet, but if robotaxis take off people might give them up for a cheaper method of transport. The future is not yet written

You can buy a '22 Ford MachE with under 30k miles on it for $27k. EVs have been depreciating so fast picking up a used one is becoming more affordable. (edit - I live in New York state, United States).

Buy second hand, you can get a good car cheap. Just like big USA ICE cars, the second hand prices have nose dived.

Kept my Volvo XC90 for twenty years. £120 for 300 miles. Servicing and maintenance about £500/yr. Tax and insurance on top. My Polestar costs £300/yr without the emissions, sound, etc. I’m done with driving around in a giant cancer producing cigarette.

He's already done a video about it...

JLR next to go bust?

@@johnpedelty3866 Only if TATA dumps them.

Key there is DEMAND. Legacy Auto don't get the demand for ICE cars as lets be honest. People that came to market with EV have superior EV products. For me when go EV then will be Tesla due to the overall product and the navigation and charging network which seems to be ahead of competition. Last year when changed the car then I went round the legacy auto dealers and they all tried to talk me into the EV models. I simply answered First Floor Flat, parking bay other side of road so no home charge at which point they stopped the EV talk. It is not that they didn;t want to sell me an EV. I had 9 years of VW/Audi, 2 Golf GTI's 7 and 7.5, Passat Estate and lastly an Audi A5. Only changed the A5 as parents struggling to get in and out as too low. No problems with them. However if buying an EV then wouldn't even think of looking at a VW group car. There EV offerings aren't that attractive as mainly ICE cars with Batterys rather then actual EV.. If people going into dealerships and saying I want an ICE car not an EV then what do you expect the Car Company to do. Say sorry don't have any. Is the classic there is no demand for our EV but there is demand for our ICE so will build ICE as that is what our customers want. People that want EV are unlikely to be going to Legacy Auto dealers, not that the Legacy Auto dealers don't want to sell them

@@michaelmcnally2331 Why would people who want EV not go to a legacy dealer? Many of the EVs on the road in the UK are from the long-standing legacy brands and they are selling their EV models alongside their ICE models. In fact other than Tesla and BYD pretty much every other EV you see will be from a 'legacy' brand.

@@paulweston1106 because quite frankly legacy auto makers EV are not as good as the cars from those starting with EV as doing from the ground up rather then electric version of the ICE car.

Thank goodness

In 5 years Jaguar will not exist, and maybe not volvo or Porsche... cleverer companies like BMW, Aud/VW and Mercedes ( as well as most Japanese companies ) are still designing and planning ICE vehicles and hybrids.

@@chrissmith2114 Could be so. I'd guess Porsche will still be around before BMW or MB. Going FSD was a huge mistake.

They are not going to make a profit on charging to cover the cost of installing.A ice can fill up in 5 minutes, if the garage has ten chargers your going to be waiting a long time.

@@onlyme972 Not if there is another charger station at the next block.

they said that about steam. I've not seen one of those for a while

@@davetakesiton funny you say that. I come back from the riding steam train in Japan (tourist purpose only) the inside are still using kerosene for heating! We'll see what happen in future.

What exactly are you hanging on for?

@@Hell-Hound1 Simple, I have a car now that works and is paid for, I don't need a car today. However, I am using this time to educate myself on EV's and to watch the market. Also, in conversation with others, I can raise the level of debate on EV's and renewables in general. At 66 I cannot afford to buy the wrong car, I buy for practicality and usefulness as opposed to prestige. New cars are coming that are better and cheaper, so I must decide, do I buy pre owned or go in new. That's my dilemma, so I'll wait a while. If I needed a car, then I would buy an EV. My Hyundai i10 will suffice for now

If you do decide to take the EV plunge, check out DefinitelyNotAGuru for his advice. He currently recommends to buy used, lease new.

@@Chrislayeruk1 As will my 2012 Nissan Pixo. I'm quite a bit older but there are no small cheap hatchbacks to fill the void left by the Fiesta and all the other small cars that people used to buy as local runarounds. Give it another 10 yrs and technology will have changed and we will know in real terms if ev's are any good as a used car.

MG have started to offer lifetime warranties on their batteries in some territories. If that sets a trend, then buying used will not be much of a risk

Today we have 470 miles Tesla Cybertruck with range extender, 481 miles with Mercedes EQS, and 500 miles with Tesla semi. Tesla Roadster is stated to have 620 m miles range. Fastest charging now 10 minutes 30 seconds, Zeekr 007, Fastest charging EV in the world. What is going to take 20 years to add 20% range and cut charging time in half? You may be way off track.

@@davetakesiton let’s see just because a vehicle has a massive Battery doesn’t mean that it’s a marker for the future. Packaging and size make 60 to 80kWh batteries about the correct size for large passenger vehicles. Until these are hitting 400 to 500 miles then we won’t see an uptake. Batterry technology won’t change for at least 10 years as that’s the manufacturing life cycle we are currently in. If you look on your car at the information page total energy supplied to total miles gained you’ll find the efficiency is between 2.8 and 3.05 miles per kWh. Lithium ion is not going to replace ICe another technology may be we are locked into li on for another 20 years.

Funny you say that as just watched a video about car charging and comments full of people saying tests invalid as people would set off there journey with a full battery. As if everyone can home charge. Dave is one of the better channels in that whilst is Pro EV he does recognise that currently don’t work for everyone. If they can sort out so that those people can charge at home then would speed up adoption. With a model Y LR then I reckon barley need to charge when out, could there and back on a charge, then charge overnight. Just like most current EV owners do.

Somehow other parts of Europe manage these issues just fine.... I'm pretty sure most park their car in the same parking lot/area every day.

@@hansj5846One day all new residences will be built with an EV charger (fixed or allocated) , solar panels and battery as standard. Until then let’s provide energy via the car’s ID rather than a particular location. If Fastned and Tesla can do it, why can’t others ?

Street lamppost chargers are the best thing for those without off street parking. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rKaEhBjt1ls.htmlsi=b4FGAModexZ8VQgA

The game changer will be when the prices of solid state batteries drop (Think 600 mile range and 10 minute charge times) which realistically will happen well before 2035 at that point EV's become practical for all. People buy houses without off street parking all the time despite the inconvenience of not having their own parking space usually in order to live closer to where they want to live which probably means they drive less miles. Like a lot of things in life it's a trade off, if they can cope with that they can cope with a 10 minute wait to charge the car. Once EV's hit price parity with ICE on street charging does not need to be as cheap as off-peak home charging it only needs to be cheaper than petrol. People won't refuse to drive an EV because they can't charge as cheaply as people with a driveway. They will drive an EV when it's as good/convenient for them as a petrol car and cheaper to drive than a petrol car.

Someone once said if I cut my hands off I’d be speechless. I’ll try to slow it down a lot.

@@davetakesiton The hand waving doesn't bother me at all.

The UK's Fire and Rescue Service estimate that there are 100,000 vehicle fires in the UK every year. Their records show that there were only 239 EV fires in 2022 and 2023, or 0.24%. The Swedish Contingencies Agency reported that 'Petrol and diesel cars are 20 times more likely to catch fire than EVs. In the US, data from the National Transportation Safety Board reported that battery-powered. vehicles suffer 25 fires for every 100,000 sold, compared to 1,530 fires for petrol vehicles.

Are you a troll or the 1 in 1000 who are deluded.

Chinny Reckon.

You have failed to state where your information has come from, please cite your sources so that I can read for myself the information you have based your statments upon. Otherwise they are just your opinon (which you have a right to) and you should say so, this will then allow me and others to simply ignore them (which I have a right to also).

@@Eryk-d8n Pardon me for daring to post on an EVangelist echo chamber site.... It is easy to find out that China is still building coal fired power stations, and plenty of articles about lease companies either upping the monthly payments and final payment or simply going bust because EV depreciation wrecks their financial model, which was based on much slower depreciating ICE vehicles.

My EV has a massive convivence. While I'm sleeping it is filling it's tank up. No more petrol station to fill up.

Yes just about everything I can think of plus I asked my 7 year old grandson and he came up with a few more. Not even worth pointing out how wrong you are

@@johniooi3954 I don't doubt that many people who can charge at home like their EVs. What I object to is that the Government are trying to force these on everyone regardless of their circumstances.

I’ll point out that you only use a fraction of the energy stored in the petrol you consume, and energy storage in electric cars will continue to improve to the point where it won’t matter anymore. The transition to electric transport is about the whole not just one aspect: energy storage, energy source, energy delivery, energy use (the motors). The reason we need to push for this transition to happen sooner than the different industries involved wish for is to force all those industries to work together: if the change from fossil fuels to electric was only or for the most part only involving one aspect or industry, it could have been left to the industry itself and to the market to make it happen. But when multiple parties which normally avoid situations where they need to start working together get told ‘change or die’ they finally get to work. The government mandate was a must from this respect.

@@fenegroni You obviously believe in the "climate crisis". I don't, on the grounds that we need more CO2 for food production and more people die from cold than heat. I believe it is a scam designed to undermine democracy, but if I give a link to the scientists who support this view it will be deleted by RU-vid who are a party to the scam.