Harley charging $500 for black paint doesn't mean they're struggling, it means they think the consumer is stupid. They'll charge you for anything they think you're willing to pay for. You pay $500 for paint, pretty soon it's going to be $295 for HD Air (tm) in the tires.
@@garcjr Because you can’t sell a $30k bike to a generation with mechanic special 883 money. You can however sell them all on a $30 T-shirt when they come looking for a new handlebar. There’s a greater profit margin in PG&A than new bike sales anyways. Might as well lean into it, building loyalty, and run with it till economic situations improves enough to bother focusing on the bikes themselves.
MmmNO, here in the states, we need to turn motorcycles from a luxury device in to a more common means of transportation. My wife and I do some, 20% - 25% of our grocery shopping on our bikes. We also ride to work on our bikes. We also take our bikes out to eat, see friends, see new places or places we've been before. They're also great therapy. Motorcycles need to be considered more of an alternative means of transportation than a luxury device.
I haven’t owned a car in over 5 years now. If they get re-labeled I fear the insurance will go up as insurance right now is assuming limited street time.
“If HD are struggling then everyone is struggling”? No. They have been propped up by governments since the 80’s otherwise they’d be long gone. When I say propped up this includes import tariffs. An example being Australia’s now non existent car manufacturing industry, when we once had 5 different global companies (all propped up by our governments as it counted for votes). Now we get cars at a much cheaper price as we don’t have an industry to protect. Emissions regulations will ultimately kill off HD as today they still sell well in Australia which is slightly behind Europe with emissions regulations.
It's the same with automobiles, my dad just bought a `24 Ford Bronco Sport for just over $32k, it has the Big Bend pkg which is pretty much the plain jane version and it still cost that much. I feel not long ago you could've easily purchased it for around $25k but they've added all this new tech into it. It does have a rear camera which honestly is a good thing but IMO needs to be optional, they include all sorts of drivers aids which honestly are a complete nuisanse. I ended up turning off lane helper assist, if you get too close to the edge or driving around a turn it slightly adjusts the steering wheel automatically for you, I couldn't completely disable but now it has haptic feedback in the steering wheel, another is the auto stop feature, they do have a button to disable it but resets itself everytime you restart, it also has GPS for tracking the vehicle, the dealer said we would have to connect the phone to use navigation but I can literally track the vehicle using the Ford Pass app, also remote start and unlock the doors, again needs to be optional features. Actually now with motorcycles there is a resurgance where people want to get back to basics, I would like ABS, charging port and maybe some type of GPS navigation and that's about it. The everyday rider doesn't need all the different riding modes or even adjusting the suspension electronically.
Here in Australia, where the motorcycle market is more than twice as big as the US on a per capita basis, small bikes are king. 8 of of the 10 top selling bikes were 660cc or lower according to the last available report. The majority of Uber Eats riders are rocking a CB125 & the Duke 200 & 390 are the most popular commuter bike by a long margin, with the smaller CFMOTO's slowly catching up. Even Triumph is having serious issues in supplying the demand for their new 400's. The motorcycle industry isn't screwed, but it seems that the Indian & Chinese motorcycle manufacturers have been faster to react to the market changes than the traditional manufacturers.
I'm in Australia, too. That middleweight segment certainly seems to be growing. I think that's partly due to learner laws but also because there are a lot of really good bikes in that segment that old farts like me are comfortable on and they're bikes that we like. RE's, Vstrom 650's, SV's... they all just make too much sense. And low capacity bikes make a heap of sense for inner city apartment dwellers. And let's not forget, they're relatively "cheap". These are austere times that we're living in. Price point sensitivity is very much a thing. Smaller, moderately performing bikes are cheaper in every way than their big bore siblings.
@@davidzavala337 Fuel prices are higher here in Australia, hence the small capacity motorcycles. We pay around $5 USD per gallon for our cheapest petrol with 10% ethanol. If your bike or car needs high octane fuel you're paying a lot more. But that's not why Uber Eats are so expensive. Here in Australia they take 35% of the total from the restaurant as a service fee. The only way restaurants can survive is by charging higher prices fo Uber customers than those who visit the restaurant.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 And they're just as capable. My Aprilia Shiver is my weapon of choice when I go for a ride in the twisties, but my Duke 200 is my first choice for commuting to work because it's faster & more nimble in traffic. It's even outrun a McLaren on The Seven Ways from a standing start at the lights on Bay St in Rockdale, much to the driver's displeasure. And a mate bought a Benelli Leoncino 500 in Kempsey last year & I had the unenviable task of riding it back to Sydney for him. With half the power of the Aprilia it still had no problem running at highway speeds & was such a hoot to ride I may have taken a few "scenic routes" on the way back.
Old school, second hand, cheap bikes are what the cool kids are riding these days. Even cooler kids buy a maintenance manual / watch RU-vid videos and maintain their own ride. Buy something Japanese and be happy.
Why wonder? Just look up the stats. The number of on-road motorcycles registered in the U.S. has been generally increasing throughout the years, approximately doubling from 4.3 million in 2002 to 8.6 million in 2021 . that's from the IIHS
It is pure greed. I have a BMW R1200GS and I can’t do the oil changes myself because you have to have the electronic reprogramming tool to reset the oil change light. Meanwhile, riders on that same bike in the EU can go into the menu options and just reset it at no charge. This is driven by local laws and BMW is screwing us. That’s why my next bike was a Honda that I can do all of the work myself.
Where do you live? I think not being able to reset the oil change light on a vehicle is actually illegal in the USA. There are also other ways around it. You could disassemble your cluster and remove or paint over the light. They can't fail your vehicle for inspection for an oil change light. Maybe you have a cell phone screen cluster. I'd put freakin' tape over it, literally
I have a 2013 r1200GS and I use a obd1 with the connector to reset the service light and look at other diagnostics on the motorcycle… these service fees are utterly ridiculous so I do what I can on my own including tire changes and even checking the valves which I will do on my 120000 mile service… plus it gives u a change to greatly get to know ur bike as well but get the obd1 and connector u can’t go wrong…
You can reset the service yourself if you buy the tool (Motoscan, I think, it was ~90 bucks when I bought mine). Not great, but better than my Tuono 660; there's no option to reset the light other than the dealer. :(
Harley wanted $685 for a 5000 service??? They said "it takes more oil"... i said, so does my peterbuilt, and the oil change is cheaper ... so i did it myself, and filmed it.
@@danieldoyle253 Not in the USA... its protected by law, and they cannot legally void the warranty. They fought it in court a long time, but Harley finally gave up and took their loss. They cannot void your warranty... car companies cannot either, you are free to service anywhere you want.
@@danieldoyle253no it doesn’t. Who ever told you that lied to you. It is illegal for a dealer in the USA to void a warranty simply because you did your own servicing.
I personally don't see electric bikes going anywhere. Tons of car manufacturers are cutting back EV production 10x. EV sales are down over 40%, and bike dealers can't get rid of electric bikes. Which is fine by me. I hope the whole EV thing dies out, honestly. There is nothing that can replace the I.C.E anywhere in the near future.
That doesn’t seem to be the case here in Seattle- tons of millennials and gen z run rampant on the ubiquitous Lime scooters( completely ignoring any sort of “rules of the road”( or sidewalk) of course w/o a helmet ( bc “helmet laws are racist😅). E bikes are close behind. And of course anyone with a pulse can ride one so there are no barriers to entry…
@marcusvalentin5485 those are two completely different bikes. The 10k ninja 400 is the inline four they have a cheap twin 400 is only about 1k different. I know because my local kawasaki/suzuki dealer is also a cf moto dealer and the prices for comparable bikes are not that big of a price gap. That's why I walked out with a suzuki and it was an extra $800 well spent. You can say what you want but the small savings isn't worth giving up reliability and aftermarket support
The US dollar literally inflated ~23% total over the last 4 years. Whatever the base price on bikes were 4 years ago, add 23% and that cost is just due to the dollar being worth less. It may not be 1-1 exactly, but it's also a big reason for rising costs.
Most of the country is struggling affording groceries and housing. Until the economy is fixed, no amount of marketing, features or styling is going to put more bikes on the road.
Depends what you’re looking for. Theses $20k+ bikes are something we never had in the past, they’re insane. Just picked up a new 24 GSX S1000 for $12k out the door with tax, which is a helluva deal for the what you get!
Consider this: the GT I bought was just $2K more with bags and the bigger fairing. Suzuki has had a long history of refining known tech instead of trying to reinvent everything for every new year model.
The one that really gets me is "Take it to the track" (often said by your former partner Spite). And while I do agree with the advice, there's a VERY obvious reason why most people don't do that. having just done my first track day, it's VERY expensive, 100's per day, 1000's in safety gear, a huge hassle (and possibly very expensive) to get insurance for your bike on a track. So, sure, take it to the track if you have the means, but it's kind of hard to fault the kid for twisting his wrist a little longer to see 100 on the speedo.
The cheapest track day I can do is a drag strip. That's still 1k in a full suit, $70 to race, wear and tear on tires, and some special mods to meet safety criteria. Track days are worse and they are usually on weekdays... So loss of work income too
I went the other direction and bought a Kawasaki Vulcan 900. No modes, rider aides, bells or whistles, just a 5 speed 900 that basically hasn't changed it's design in almost 20 years.
I have one as well! Was my first bike a few years back, and I still keep it in the garage for cruising time. Now it has to share space with my GTR1400 😎.
The younger generation is very risk-averse. especially financially. They need options in motorcycles that feel like good value for money and right now all they're pumping out is expensive flagship bikes. Even on the less expensive versions you won't see very many of them in dealerships. base model BMWs are a myth They don't exist you'll never see one in a dealership. I also disagree I think you're going to start seeing an increase in people buying motorcycles as primary transportation and not just the luxury item. especially as places become more urbanized and cars get more and more expensive and unattainable people are going to start looking at motorcycles a whole different way. I know I had to That's the only reason I ever got into riding. My car started falling apart and I knew that I needed to replace it but I also knew that I wasn't in a financial position to do so but I still needed to be able to get to work. at the same time gas was going to $5 a gallon and I couldn't afford to fill the car so I bought something that was small but still functional cheap and good on gas. aka a CFMoto 300NK. But that's the kind of buyer that the motorcycle industry is currently ignoring for the most part because while the smaller bikes are selling more units they're not as profitable per unit. you have two different ways you can go with that. you can do the Harley route and only sell big expensive bikes and just sell fewer of them but with higher profit margins per unit sold. and you can focus on people who have disposable income even if that is a smaller market. or you can make quality simple but functional motorcycles like some of the Japanese manufacturers and CFMoto are doing. run the risk of making smaller amount of profits per unit but producing more units and using that bulk to create your profit. BMW and Yamaha are also focusing on their more expensive motorcycles to get their profits. you almost never see an MT03 in a dealership, But that same dealership will be stacked with 600s and 1000s wall to wall. so even if it manufacturer technically sells something cool and functional and inexpensive they often don't actually produce it in any sort of numbers.
2009, one model year production, MV Agusta F4 1078 312 RR, $25k base, $35k upgrades to get it where it needs to be, just sold for $12.7k, that is the price you pay if and only if your willing to wait
yeah it's frustrating. I want a newer gold wing or a newer FJR and it's kind of tough to find one that isn't a billion dollars. Don't even get me started on the Harleys. THANKS FOR HAVING JESS ON WITH YOU
Things might be different in burgerland, but here in Southeast Asia, specifically India, we have a different kind of change brewing. Being the land of 100-150cc commuters at best, we grew up with bikes like the R15 (yes, a 155cc YZF 🥲) and CBR150R being the one bike the cool kid at uni or school had, and bikes more than 200cc were a freaking luxury. Now that we have grown up, we are slowly seeing the 300cc+ singles being the hottest category and bikes are coming in left right and center in here. We are growing in numbers of sales as well as the spec sheets. Cheers 🎉
At least with BMW's you get your money's worth for the most part when you purchase a higher priced bike. Unlike HD where you pay top dollar for chrome and the logo.
"Most people can't afford a $30,000 motorcycle" - Nobody buys a Harley for transportation. They're jewelry for a social club, and a status symbol. If you need transportation you can get a very good used bike for $3000 to $5000 max.
I'm going to say it... Young people in general are scared. My daughter(20) rides and she only does because the rest of her family does. She got a crf70 when she was 9. She didn't start super young like some kids ,but she did ride 4wheelers. She's in college now and she has said most kids there ride groms/z125s or scooters not a lot of actual full size motorcycles.(She rides a SV650X) Every conversation she has with somebody when they first find out she has a motorcycle is are you afraid of dying or I know someone that died riding a motorcycle or something along those lines. Kids are not as adventurous or curious as they used to be. I'm not sure what can be done to get the kids on bikes. Hell there are kids that graduated with my daughter in highschool that have never even rode a bicycle.
I started riding on road at 16... I'm 22 now... I see like no one my age riding at all, like zero. Most people I talk to my age and a bit younger think I'm stupid for having a motorcycle.
@@AyaWettsthat's what my kid says. It's almost weird for her when she's off campus and comes across another rider under 30. Cost is a factor on new bikes but you can always find a deal on used bikes. I think younger people look at riding a bike as too much as a risk. I think with being inundated with death and crashes online that's the first thing people think about.
To ride a motorcycle you must first ride a bicycle, but riding a bicycle is a lot more dangerous these days even in a "safe" suburban neighborhood; the fatality rate of pedestrians and bicyclists has nearly doubled in just the past decade. These people didn't just drop their bikes; a driver struck them. So the college person with a Grom makes a lot of sense; the riders are playing catch-up for years without a bicycle. I call it the domination of the car. The car is used for everything but it dominates spaces with its mortal danger; thus kids avoid adventure because they either need a car to do anything or they might be struck by a driver if they aren't in a car.
@@spitescorner Harley's new CEO wants Harley to be an "aspirational" brand. You know what that means LOL 😁. Also , have you heard about Harley forcing all kinds of dealerships to close down? I think it'll all backfire in the long run, but they're running with it
@@spitescorner - the marketing may be blue collar but it definitely the doctors lawyer, bankers, company execs and successful company owners who are buying them - at least buying them new. The prices for new HD's are way beyond the budget of most young riders. I fall into the "I can afford to buy one if I really want one" category but I don't have an emotional connection to them so to me I think they are simply very overpriced for what they are and so I'll keep schlepping along on my FJR1300 which to me is a bike that represents great value for money.
@@Jagshemasher Yeah, the whole "blue collar" Harley thing was only true briefly in the late 1940's when there were cheap Army surplus bikes flooding the market. The fact that Harley can continue to levitate that myth in the face of $26,000 motorcycles is the 8th wonder of the world.
My son just bought a 2024 MT09 for under 11k. There have always been boutique brands. I have an Aprilia, a Moto Guzzi, and a BMW. All three cost me more than a better-performing more reliable Japanese brand. The industry is the best shape in history. There are offerings for almost any price point.
I think one of the big things is the safety issue with everyone not paying attention and vehicles getting larger and heavier. I got hit by a f250 while on my multistrada and while that didnt stop me from riding, 3 of my friends saw what happened and decided to hang it up. To many people dont pay attention while driving now the risk is just getting higher and higher people dont wanna take the chances.
I bought a used 2004 Moto Guzzi 750 for less than 3.5k, and having a blast for last three seasons of riding it ! I don’t want to spend a lot of money on motorcycles. It’s possible to spend less and still have fun, which I prefer.
It's a topic of economy. Corporate profits are rising exponentially, and cost of living is rising, yet wages have been stagnant for decades. As far as increased amount of tech on vehicles in general, that's just companies lobbying for more regs to stomp out the competition.
What gets me is they keep raising the prices every single year on the same motorcycles that haven't been updated in several years. 600's now cost over 12k with abs, and 1000's are 16-19k. It used to be 7k & 12-13k about 10yrs ago. That's substantial considering the percentage increase. They're pricing themselves out of the market to try and make up for lower sales.
Its called inflation and its all across the Globe and has been because of "Free trade". Trucks are even more outrageous. $75K is the norm for a full size truck. Even used you are looking at $40K or more. There is no way I could justify paying more than $35K for a truck for personal use and even that is too much.
I grabbed myself a Grom a couple of years ago, and I consistently put twice the miles of my Harley on that thing. The best part is, I'm not the only one. I met a bunch of Harley dudes in my area that have mini motos that are exactly the same way.
I'd love a Nightster Special... seems so great, but heard so many stories of them being problematic, plus HD trying to nickle and dime everyone to death.
I want to go back to the year 2000. Motorcycles are trying to do too much. BE a motorcycle. 2 wheels. Lots of power. Limited electronics. And AFFORDABLE
Lots of excellent early to mid 2000 options on the used market for kick ass prices, especially in the Japanese cruiser and muscle bike category. Their reliability and easy maintenance (on most) make it a no brainer at least for me.
@thegreenman2030 exactly. Manufacturers need to get back to the basics. Make simple powerful fun machines. 99% of riders will never "use" The machine to need all of the electronics.
Luckily, you can buy good bikes for reasonable prices from almost any era you like. I recently bought a 1980 Honda and it's great fun to ride and about as practical for transportation as my Yamaha. I'm only going to stable it for the winter because then I'd prefer to have the TC and ABS on my ride.
The U.S. motorcycle industry, while still significant, has been experiencing some shifts compared to other countries around the world: Key differences and trends: Market maturity: The U.S. motorcycle market is considered mature, with a large existing motorcycle population and a focus on replacement sales rather than rapid growth. In contrast, many Asian and developing countries are experiencing faster growth due to increasing disposable incomes and motorcycle adoption for transportation. Dominant brands: The U.S. market has traditionally been dominated by domestic brands like Harley-Davidson and Indian Motorcycle, known for their large-displacement cruisers and touring bikes. However, international brands like Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, BMW, and Ducati are also popular, offering diverse motorcycle types to cater to different preferences. Shifting demographics: The average age of motorcycle riders in the U.S. is increasing, posing a challenge for attracting younger riders. Conversely, many other countries have younger rider demographics, which drives demand for different motorcycle types like sportbikes and smaller-displacement models. Electric motorcycles: The global rise of electric motorcycles is also impacting the industry. While the U.S. market is gradually adopting electric motorcycles, other countries, particularly in Asia and Europe, are witnessing faster adoption due to government incentives and environmental concerns. Market size: While the U.S. market remains substantial, it is no longer the largest globally. Countries like China, India, and Indonesia have significantly larger motorcycle markets due to their sheer population size and the role of motorcycles in transportation. Overall: The U.S. motorcycle industry is undergoing a transition, with changing demographics, evolving preferences, and the increasing presence of international brands. While the market remains important, it faces challenges in attracting younger riders and adapting to the growing popularity of electric motorcycles. In contrast, many other countries are experiencing faster growth and diversification in the motorcycle industry. In short, the more people don't want it to change, the worse it's going to get.
6:20 I disagree with that. On my 2022 KTM 1290 SAS i constantly use the adaptive cruise control when riding in groups because it DOES notice the motorcycle in front of itself and makes it much easier to keep a constant distance without that normal on and off acceleration that you do when trying to match someone else's speed.
Here's another thought. Go with black plastic fuel tanks, fenders, trim, and forego painting anything except the frame and engine black. Or polish frame and engine, after chroming it. HD is out dated, time to get rid of tins, and paint jobs.... aerated paint applications isn't doing our environment any good. Better if they changed procedures, and dipped the parts in paint, like the automotive industry does.
Mint 86 Goldwing Interstate for 1400.00 that sat twenty years and after about 500 in parts and some elbow grease , I have a great bike to ride and I couldnt be happier not to mention its the greatest bike I have ever owned in my 60 years . Moral of the story is you dont need a lot of money to get a good bike
Yes they have. When it costs as much as an SUV with a fraction of the material input its way way too expensive. Companies need to figure out what colours are and lose the tech. If you can't control the bike without rider modes and all the other stuff then you shouldn't be on the bike. Accept you are not a professional and get a bike accordingly.
"The US is a pretty large country where we need a lot of power to move around." - Eh? Does not compute. Why would you need a lot of power to go far? A 250 will easily get you to speed limit and beyond. Plus, a lot of roads over there are flat and straight. How on earth is that supposed to require more power than in Europe, where roads wind between fields, along streams and around hills as they were for centuries, or even in an alpine region, where you constantly have to brake and accelerate over mountain roads, going up and down steep inclines. I got a CBR650 last year. Cost me around 10000. Whenever asked about that, the followup question is always: "New?" - it's much cheaper than people expect. And compared to the bicycle I bought the same year (for 2500), it's an outright bargain. 95HP, ABS, traction control, full LED lighting, great suspension (albeit non-adjustable), fulfills EURO5 emission standards... I don't think it's expensive at all. I also considered getting a Fireblade. Now that IS expensive.
in my opinion flagship bikes aren't going anywhere. I'd fully expect manufacturers to shift more towards smaller bikes as their main income, but having fast high end bikes is too powerful of a marketing tool to get rid of at the very least.
Yes the prices are absolutely ridiculous, they are expecting to sell bikes to a car drivers for the price of a very nice, almost new muscle car, or a german car. I'm hesitant to put SUV people in the car driver category, the majority are kind of "special" and not in a good way.
Here in the Netherlands people are actually buying more bikes than before. And about the KTM moving to china thing; I heard that this has also to do with them wanting to sell bikes in China itself, through CFMoto. But the manufacturer demanded that they would also take responsibility for building bikes for markets such as Europe. Not sure about this one, but I don’t think the motorcycle market is dying yet
The Livewire is awesome , until you get rear ended at a stop sign and you've been waiting 4 months for the Harley dealer to fix it and there is still no ETA on some parts from the Mo Co.
The market/ power necessity/ reallity is completely different from the US, but over here in Europe big bikes are dying out in favor of 125cc bikes and scooter. In my country specifically in the last 5 years there were as many 125cc bikes sold as all the other cc combine, they are affordable, easy to bet on, fuel efficient and on most cases they have enough power to scut arround
Motorcycles have gotten too expensive, but they are toys in America. The good thing is, companies are now selling good performing daily bikes like the RS660,GSX8R, R7 and many others coming into this category of value driven machine.
Just because HD is struggling DOESNT mean other brands are. They are suffering from outdated bikes, huge price premiums and a nasty stigma that they created. It’s not an industry problem. It’s a HD problem.
In india we are blessed with tons of entry level middle weight bikes like Triumph Speed 400/ 400X, Harley x440, KTM 390 lineup, Aprilia RS457, and few offerings from local manufacturers like Bajaj, Hero Motocorp and Royal Enfield.
Just bought a Royal Enfield SM 650 and I really appreciate the simplicity and robust nature of the 650 engine. Congrats to India for making such a great motorcycle.
They aren't entry level in India for majority of young folk though. They are aspirational. India is just starting its journey of leisure rider motorcyclists and motorcycling is far from dead. Think numbers in USA might be going uo as well actually.
I think things are a lot better now than they were 2 or 3 years ago. Supply problems meant popular bikes (like MT07 or 09) were hard to find + dealers had so many inflated additional charges. I was in a local dealer a couple of months ago and they had 2024 Suzuki GSX 8S models on the floor for $5999 + reasonable shipping/setup/licensing fees so deals are available for even the newest models.
Especially young dudes who live in inner city areas with good access to public transport. My son is 26. He didn't bother getting his driver's license until he was 21. He only owned a car for a year or so and barely drove it. The tram stop is just around the corner from where he lives and that's how he gets to work or to the train. It doesn't faze him.
Tried to get a BASIC bike and it ended up being 3/4 of the cost of a brand new Nissan Versa. Profits are soaring and everything is going up but the WORKING persons pay.
Glad you called that (color) what it is - PRIMER Grey !!! They do this on bikes and also vehicles now. Every time I see one, I am thinking - someone actually CHOSE that color ???? WTF Are they planning on (completing) the paint job, lol ?? Primer is what goes on the metal (before) the actual color.
Spite you are absolutely right about the beginner bikes on offer. I just watched a video about Triumphs 400 offering and they look amazing. I unfortunately had to give up riding due to a quadruple heart bypass, so now I watch channels like yours and Jess's. Keep up the great videos!
@@petekeller1424 I thought about that option but with all the meds I'm on my hands a feet go numb without warning. I watch AMSR videos of bike rides. My favourite is Ride to Food, it's a Sportster riding through some of the most beautiful areas. I live in Ireland now and even if I could ride you deal with alot of unexpected rain and people in cars who don't pay attention.
@@Robert-xs2mv I ride my bikes far more days than I drive my truck, but when I drive my truck it's usually to go a long distance to do some task, so in the end I probably ride 5 days for every 1 day I drive but I have 10,000 miles on my truck since buying it last September but only about 7000 on my bikes combined since then.
HD is charging $ 500.00 for 'vivid black' paint...and HD buyers are paying for it. It speaks volumes about both the greed of the company and the patent idolatry of its buyers.
I’ve got an S1000RR and it’s worth every cent. But I wouldn’t buy a Harley even if it was 50% off. Cost is not an issue, but performance, looks and functionality are.
Any bike is subject to be stolen. Stop it. I live in an apartment with a bike and no issues. Just have to live with the reality that if a thief wants something, they will try and take it 50/50 chance no matter what. I have friends with bikes messed with at their homes, driveway, garage, it doesn't matter. Just be as safe as possible.
There are so many good bikes for 15k or less New it's crazy. You used to pay extra for chrome but now the paint and no chrome is extra. The Grey on Harleys is definitely a nice color.
XSR900 has an MSRP of 10k, 6 axis ride aides, cruise control, quick shifter, auto blip, digital display, and it handles and rides great. Fast enough not to be boring.
That’s kinda of the point though. Drop all that unnecessary tech and it would be 8k. I work at an Aprilia dealer and a few days ago I had the pleasure of riding an 08 FZ-06 that doesn’t have any of that tech. Guess what? It was amazing! Bikes of that era have everything you need and nothing you don’t. Oh, and that screaming buttery smooth inline 4 😎 not a boring, vibrating twin…
@brandonzm1122 I think newer riders appreciate the tech. You can always turn it off. It would be interesting to see a manufacturer offer the same bike with analog gauges for 2k less than the one with all the tech and see how they sold. I'd think more people want the tech than don't. If people want cheaper less techy bikes, used bikes are a dime a dozen on facebook. The XSR900 is a 3 cylinder. It's pretty torquey and fun and easy to ride. Pretty quick to about 100 mph and the engine is pretty great IMO.
im 35. when I was in hs (2006) you could pick up a 600 super sport used from craigslist for 3 grand, and it wasn't a pos. 2010ish same thing was 5k-8k today unless your buying a 12 year old bike you won't get those prices. im assuming with things like abs,tct, digital dashes, and the technology and what it takes to produce that has raised the prices along w/ inflation and other things. but I watch my younger family members struggle to just buy a bike these days vs when I was getting into it. it was called the broke mans way to go fast. now its the privileged. with disposable income during a depressions luxury.
I could see small bikes in urban areas but where i live it’s all highways connecting the towns and small bikes just don’t cut it comfortably. I live in the PNW so I might be biased but I see more adventure bikes than anything due to the mountains and people wanting to get out and about.
For the well to do riders here in North America - They really don't need motorcycles at all. For them they are just toys to be enjoyed whenever. The manufacturers realize that the North American riders can help float their profitability boat, so they charge more here, than they charge people in less fortunate countries. So they get the profits from the rich. They don't care about basic transportation here for us less than wealthy riders. Look at all the new tech recently developed for bikes. That cost a crapload of money, and the consumers will have to pay for it. As a retiree, I can't afford the fancy bikes I used to own and ride. Tuesday I'm going to a dealer to test ride a 2017 BMW F800R with less than 18,000 miles, selling for an asking price of $4995. I intend to negotiate a better price if the bike suits me. In reality, who needs more than 100HP? But if you have money to burn, buy the best and most expensive, and keep the industry healthy.
We just need more bare bones simple bikes! Honda is getting close to selling ONE MILLION groms, which is one of the most bare bones bikes you can get, and the Yamaha MT07 has been unchanged for almost 10 years for a reason. Most people don't really care about all the tech, apart from cruise control and ABS.
Yes. Yes they are. Used motorcycles in particular are high/expensive. Cost of entry is just too high for new riders. Almost cheapest for new riders to buy a Triumph 400 or Enfield.
In Florida the Bar and Shield is the quintessential Boomer Bike. As the Boomers age out, younger riders arent wanting to pay 3x more for a brand they have little nostalgia for.
People love to whine about how expensive bikes have gotten, but they really aren’t that much more expensive than they used to be relative to other goods. In 1980, you could buy a brand new Kawasaki KZ1000 off the showroom floor for $4,200. Adjusted for inflation, that’s equal to about $16,000 today. If we assume that a KZ1000 in 1980 was equivalent to a flagship model supersport today, then the price really hasn’t increased that much for most brands. A new liter bike from any of the Big Four usually starts around $18,000. Obviously you’re going to pay a premium for anything Italian or Harley. What has changed, however, is the ability for younger people to finance things. In times past it was very easy for even a young kid with a mediocre job to get a good line of credit and finance a motorcycle at a reasonable rate. The same could be said with cars and mortgages. When the economy was “booming” (I use that term somewhat sarcastically because as we later discovered, it was an economic boom built on pillars of sand), it was incredibly easy to walk into a dealership and walk out with a brand new supersport with very little money down and a cheap payment. This is why sport bike sales skyrocketed in the early 2000s. After 2008, things changed a lot. Fast forward to today and a lot of people have woken up to just how fragile our economy is. Interest rates are skyrocketing and inflation is getting out of control. Not only actual inflation but the relative purchasing power in regards to consumer goods. In other words, the bikes themselves have not really gotten anymore expensive compared to decades past. It’s just that they’re increasingly hard for young people to finance, and very few people have cash to buy them without any debt unless they’re older and more established. And the older, more established crowd is generally less interested in the latest and greatest in performance. That’s my two cents anyway.
Companies want to maximize revenue per sale by selling higher revenue products, which both shrinks the target market and raise the price cieling. It's a vicous cycle because catering to the higher end market CREATES this problem.
35M live in BC Canada. Been riding bikes for the last 7 yrs. I have an 08 Shadow 750 and a 23 Vstrom 800de. Both of these bikes even with the Vstrom brand new still cost me less than an a lowrider ST and saved almost 10k WTF! I have test road the ST and would buy if it wasn't 30K+ out the door here. I tour and offroad on my Vstrom, it does it just great. I would like to have a Harley but they are just that much more expensive and doesn't make sense to me.
You can literally buy 2 motorcycles for the price of any Harley. And… HD has 1950 technology even when they add some new stuff…. All still look the same too. They can’t keep up to Europe and Asia . I’m surprised they still exist.
They should give top-notch suspension by LAW ! Everything else is subjective . Those rubber things underneath us are our lifeline . No rubber or its my riding gear or skin getting shaved off by a stone grinder . On or off road .
I resemble your remark about theft, 2007, 998r 478/700 poof in the wind and it would take 5 long years for me to unwind the true relationship between law enforcement & crime
When I got my Trident in 22, I was looking at all of the middleweight options, and had to basically accept the fact there were no options available for 10K out the door with all fees n BS included.
I think that people just don't really have money to spend especially on luxuries, which in the US I'd consider a motorcycle to be as it's more of a recreational thing for most people here. There are very few who have a motorcycle as their primary form of transportation. Add the excessive dealer fees to that and you've just got a recipe for bikes not selling, especially new ones. I regularly monitor marketplace for deals and I've seen a lot of really good deals that just sit there because people don't have the purchasing power right now. As a 22 year old rider, I don't necessarily think it's people my age being risk averse, it's more that how the hell are we supposed to afford it? We can't even afford rent or housing. I'm fortunate to be able to live with my folks but I live in one of the fastest growing cities in the US. If I had to live on my own I'd have to sell my bike and all my gear and I would still be living pay check to pay check even just buying necessities and having 0 excess spending. If anything, I think what you'll start to see from people my age is "doomer spending", people just deciding that it doesn't matter what they save cause they feel like the world is going to shit regardless so they might as well enjoy it. The reality is, from the outside looking in, motorcycles are really expensive. Yes there's ways to do it cheaply, that's how I did it. Buy a used Japanese dual sport for a few grand and never look back. But that's not what's really shown in media. Us people who are already involved in the hobby know the cheap ways, but all people see is flashy new bikes and fancy gear.
The cost of housing for people who aren't already in a house with a 3% loan basically means most of their income goes into housing and transportation. There's no way to square the hole, and so the luxuries of young people is limited to cheap electronics and very minor "avocados on toast". That wasn't true when I was in my twenties; you could have a crappy job at Kinko's and still have enough after rent for a cheaper sportbike (one then wonders if that crappy job was actually so crappy). There's nothing motorcycle manufacturers and their banks who finance these bikes can do about this. The bike industry is not really profitable compared to the real estate industry and the homeowners that loves high housing prices.
I don’t think I understand… Here In Florida, gas is 3.25 per and my 650 gets 55-65 mpg. Insurance is 110.00 per year. How can that be so expensive that you can’t afford it? It’s cheaper than 1 fufu coffee a day …
@timlubbers2884 You live in Florida, you can ride year round. Insurance is not that cheap for an 18-25 year old male, especially for decent coverage. Gear is expensive as well.
@@Michael_Shay yes on the Florida part. Don’t know about the age thing, as I’m much older. Gear isn’t expensive if you don’t buy top tier (except the helmet) … cycle gear can outfit a person for 500.00 or less and that gear will last years if you keep the rubber on the road where it belongs … 🤷🏻♂️
I want to like Harley, but there’s not one model other companies don’t make a significantly better version in every way. As far as price there’s all prices in different versions. Harley’s have always been super high priced. Use to be a huge waiting list in the 90s. Everything is getting way more expensive. Honda civic in 2018 20k and now your spending 30+
Harley Davidson will take what is popular, and even during manufacturing process, squeeze every last cent out of you for it. Black paint, white paint, gray paint, are all the cheapest to purchase and apply. Colors, and metallics with clear coat on top are much more expensive. Which is why I GAVE my Sport Glide away to Cole Seely over at Thrashin Supply a couple of weeks back, and bought a used BMW R1250 RT , instead, to replace it. Jess needs to try a 1250 RT on a tour, with the top box accessory. HD is a T shirt company that sells and services motorcycles as a side hustle, these days. The HD President Jochen should stick to Puma brand (who's that?) shoes. He runs Livewire electric motorbikes too, and that's almost bankrupt also.
The right look, sound, & go, hands down was my 48, honorable mention was my Ducati 900 SSSP, and had I transitioned to the real Nightster, not the Honda pretender, and avoided the entire superbike insanity, would have saved myself over $100k
Something to think about, as I mentioned in a reply to another comment, brands like Suzuki may not have the top dollar revenue in mind where they takes years of refinement to their existing tech and continue with it instead of having an insane R&D cost to remake everything for new models, and they have other revenue streams for cars in the Asian market, so they don't have a reputation for being a "niche market". The most expensive and extreme they get is the Hayabusa, GSX R an S are cheap and ubiquitous in the marketplace. One doesn't need a HD, Indian, Ducati, BMW or Aprilia to enjoy riding, unless you value "prestige brands", they're the Coach Bags of motorcycles. In the other comment reply, I stated that for my GSXS1000GT+, hard bags and all, cost me a little over 13K out the door. Also, I can wrench on it myself for basic things like oil, filter, spark plugs, brake pads etc. without having to go to a dealer for service and saving a lot of money. To reset the service indicator, all it takes is a bent paperclip. However, for major things like valve adjustments, I'm letting a pro do it.
To your question, F yes they have and its insane. We are quickly approaching a time where very few will be able to buy them. Its already starting to happen in the new truck sales.
I think this is the exact topic for the current situation. I'm not sure where this is going to go, but I do appreciate the number of low used mileage Harley's out there.
Does anyone remember Motus Motorcycles? What a sad story that turned out to be. That company had the potential to be a premier American brand. They started with a sport tourer, the MST. This machine offered a great new Pratt V4 engine, excellent engineering, nice components, comfortable, fast - It had everything I could ever want in a motorcycle. But they got greedy and launched with a ridiculous price tag ($32,000 US to start) and it killed them before they could ever get established. They touted the bike as "every rider's sport touring bike" but then charged 32K to start! Ludicrous. I followed the development of that bike and when they finally launched, they broke my heart with that insane price tag. They broke a lot of hearts, actually. A real shame, that was.
@@csolivais1979 I got no use for that either. I honestly wouldn't take a GW or a Harley even for free. Just not something I want. Unless I was allowed to immediately sell it and use the $$ to buy something else.
A lot of super valid points made, certainly in the states motorcycling is a fragile thing, like vacationing it would be first to go during a recession. However I’m not sure if I see Harley Davidson as a market indicator like the Dow Jones. Harley has been declining for a long time as they don’t appeal to the younger buyers.
