He Stalked Her and Streamed it on Twitch 

Christina Grimmie is the best and unfortunately the worst example for such situations. If anyone says anything about those women exaggerating or blowing it out of proportion, remember that Christina died because she was killed by her stalker

The worst part is how 911 treated her, and the fact that police won't do anything unless physical harm comes to the victim. That and the people blaming HER for being stalked must make her feel so unsafe and afraid. I feel so bad for her.

I've modded for Brooke for a while now, and she's been dealing with these stalkers for over 2 years. She had to delete her public Discord server as well as stop interacting with most people on the internet. It's believed to be ex-mods before her blow up on Twitch that are doing it. It sucks and is totally unfair because she's literally the nicest/sweetest person

I absolutely hate how people are trying to justify this behavior. "Its their fault for steaming so lewd!" They are still people. Also even if they are lewd on the internet that is not a free pass to harass them and stalk them. Its just awful people trying to justify their sick desires without getting pushback.

I was just listening to the Wine About It podcast where QT and Maya were talking about stalkers. The most insane thing to me is how little law enforcement cares. Maya literally had to contact police three or four times with evidence of someone threatening to kill her and her family and got shrugged off or told they couldn't do anything each time. When she finally found an officer who would help her, it was a 25 y/o who used twitch and understood the culture around it. Absolutely insane how long it took her to get someone to give a shit.

I'm so incredibly pissed off about how much victim blaming going on around this recent incident. Like because Ammouranth does OF or dresses in a certain way she wanted/ encouraged this. This argument is incredibly stupid to anyone with a functioning brain who doesn't hate women, but so many people threw it around. And the same arguments are made less, but still too much, about how being any woman on the internet is asking to be stalked whenever this happens to anyone no matter how they dress or what types of content they do. I've heard about someone who just played games, didn't make content or anything and got stalked by someone in her clan's discord server and saw people blaming her

It's so insane to me that anyone still responds to these sort of situations with "why don't you just go to the police" It is so depressingly well-documented that cops are basically useless in these situations. "Let us know if you die" is not a meme, it's almost literally their standard operating procedure when someone is being stalked.

As a dude, I'm reminded of the Toast IRL stream where he gave fans money to find him visiting his hometown. I can imagine that female streamers wouldnt feel safe to pull any stunt like that. The internet has connected us all for better and worse

I'm gonna be honest, there's a woman streamer I really enjoy (as a content creator ya weirdos!) and (a) she's talked a lot about how stalkers have changed her life, but (b) her chat (like a small percent, but still) is just .... so cringe. Like I get there's a massive leap between "coomers" and stalkers, but idk, maybe it's time we normal viewers crack down on this shit. Like just 4weird the hell out of these guys, idk. Like it sucks, this sucks. *I* was scared of ever being on camera, and I'll (hopefully) never in my life experience what these women experience *every day*. Idk, thanks Lud for using your platform for talking about this, it just really makes me sad.

I feel terrible for every person who has to deal with any sort of stalker, it is crude and vile. Content Creators should be able to live normal lives and enjoy the perks of being a content creator without some sicko stalking them to hell, many women deal with this because there are many no-life men who think a parasocial relationship means something. That Gavin Free story still resonates with me. I feel terrible and hope there can be something done with dealing with stalkers and psychopaths in the near future!

it's sad that women can't have a break, even if they openly talk about it sweet anita dealt with stalkers all the time and seeing another creepy guy to text her is devastating

Bro, I wish Reddit would just scrub away the NSFW stuff. Honestly

The way SweetAnita talked about stalkers as just a normal part of her life during her interview with Anthony Padilla was terrifying. I hate how it is just a thing female streamers are forced to deal with. I think Poki was the one who talked about it being safer to keep moving from apartment to apartment instead of investing in a property and risk someone finding the address… Calling out the “too far but not stalker level” behavior might help, but part of me is worried that it will just push some farther down their rabbit hole…

I hope the women and possibly even some men of Twitch and other influencers don't have to live their life in fear. Such a waste of time to have to deal with stalkers.

Brooke's stalker has also been an ongoing thing so I'm not surprised she doesn't want to go to twitch con. He's been stalking her for literal years and she's tried to deal with it with even the FBI being involved at one point but literally nothing has come out of it and he keeps creating new accounts coming into her chats and twitter replies with personal info about her family including addresses and making threats. It's actually insane

My mother's ex did this to her for a whole year after we all showed up and got her out safely from her old apartment away from him. Sent flowers, angry emails, texts calls. He was texting my sisters and then texted me once and I told him to fuck off and I called the police. I told them he was harassing my entire family because my mom left him and the cops said unless he shows up at my mom's door with a gun there's nothing they can do. She lives with her brother now and he still once in a while makes new accounts and harrasses her. God damn psycho.

What's sad is that it isn't even Twitch. I've had friends who have had to move states multiple times due to stalkers. It is just not right at all. I hope all of the women out there stay safe. Thanks for covering the topic Lud.

Bonus tip for yall: dont make jokes about being a stalker. It's a real threat for many streamers (and other influencers and even people on the internet in general) so even if you're joking, it is not ok. I know youre thinking "what? Who would make such a joke?" But ive seen plenty of chatters saying things online like "i can see u in the window" or "what if im in ur house right now." It's not funny, it's uncomfortable for everyone and hurtful for people online personally affected by stalking. Dont condone this behavior with lols or repeating the joke. If it stops being the norm to make this sort of joke, then itll be that much easier to identify people who are real threats and we can make the internet safer.

Feels like the people who defend these abnormal behaviors like stalking or tributes are actually the ones who do these kinds of things in the first place

Even smaller streamers have stalkers, mostly internet stalkers but its still insane.

Weird timing seeing this after getting harassed on my way to work this morning. This guy followed next to me on my bike overtaking traffic and slowing down when I would to ask me my name and where I work/when I’m off/ commenting on my appearance. I was so scared he was going to follow me the whole way but thankfully he turned off.

The fact that of the top of my head I can think of 4 other female streamers who deal/have dealt with stalkers that weren't mentioned in this video is fucking insane. Why can't people just fucking let women exist on the internet? This whole situation is terrifying.

Most men will never know what women go through, just for being a female online. A few broken, pathetic men can cause real damage with words. NOBODY should have to feel unsafe or threatened in their own home's or communities. Lets just hope these people get the help they need, or at least destroy themselves before they hurt others. Most men are good and have an understanding that the women they see online are people, not things. So sad these animals pretending to be men ruin things for everyone.

The retroactive law enforcement is so archaic. I experienced this with a stalker of my own, and it is terrifying how helpless you feel. I received disturbing sexual photos, messages, and threats from an older guy who found the location of myself, friends, and family. I am a straight male who received unwanted sexual harassment from another man, so I can say without uncertainty that MEN HAVE PROBLEMS. Women are not asking for the kind of attention they are receiving, and I know this because I sure as hell didn’t in my situation. Men will make any claim they can to justify their awful actions like some demented lawyer from hell, and then tell you that they’re in the right. I’m pretty sure this twisted logic results in mentally and physically abusive relationships, too - off which there are far too few ways to deal with and escape. There needs to be way more resources to deal with stalkers. It’s absurd how being online is actually such a ridiculously unsafe job for women because of half the population and a considerable portion of their demographic. Can you imagine the job of getting in front of and interacting with these monsters? ok men are gross, rant over

I'm glad my best friend Ludwig is talking about how stalkers are harassing all my other best friends

This always has been one of the craziest cultural shocks I've ever came across since I moved to the States, hearing about my female friends stalkers. I come from Brazil, and I rarely hear about stalkers in Brazil (we do have other bigger issues going on there, don't get me wrong). And if there is some level of stalking they are usually trying to get info about you to rob you. But when I heard about stalkers that are obsessed with my friends I was shocked. After much thought and conversation with people about the topic, it seems like obsessive behavior always exist, but in cultures that there is a lack of social inclusion and basic communication and moral teachings from childhood, those people who lack those skills tend to be isolated from society from a physical or emotional way that they never learn how to deal with certain emotions and those emotions turn those people into predators with animalistic irrational thinking. But I'm no professional in the field of psychology, this is just my basic conclusion after multiple conversations and thought put into this subject.

Man: why won’t women love me Also man: does t h i s

reddit should ban those subreddits

scary how many men dont view women as human.

Crazy, the Texas police not being helpful? That’s unheard of!

it is so fucking terrifying to be a female streamer on twitch knowing that you inevitably will just have to deal with stalkers

As a female, I guess I figured these things were happening but hearing the specifics-- WOW. It breaks my heart that female streamers are dealing with this. Absolutely terrifying. I think big platforms like Twitch and Reddit need to do more to support female content creators.

I really hate that this is so prevalent and I hope people realize that this happens to creators of all sizes. I saw a channel that averaged about 100 viewers have a mini viewer exodus because the weirdos in her community felt betrayed by the reality that she wasn't in love with any of them - she never pretended to be. I average 15 viewers on a good day and I've had several weirdos who sounded so much like the guys in the video. It's terrifying. It has made me stream way less, change my work schedule and move. It shouldn't be this way.

This is why, if I ever start streaming, I'm gonna be faceless

I HATE that someone has to DO something first before they can get arrested. If you have enough proof someone will harm you in the future, it should be enough to lock them up

I don't think it's just twitch. I made the mistake of posting a picture of myself on reddit. Being trans and hence growing up as a guy, I was under the delusion that it wasn't a huge huge problem, and it was only a few attractive women who suffer this stuff. I posted a picture of my transition and got 4 DMs in 5 minutes, including multiple dick pics, and one in particular that showed a man's sexual fluids everywhere. People confessing their love for me based off a single post that doesn't even show my face. I think its a genuine problem that needs to be worked on at a massive scale. The thought of doing anything like this to anyone needs to be taught to men as UNACCEPTABLE from the moment they start life. It's not an inherent behaviour for men either, so they HAVE to be learning from somewhere.

"And then binge all my videos in a week" THIS FREE ATTACK ON MY PERSON LUD? WHY

As an Irish person I feel pain whenever someone pronounces "Celtic" like "Seltic"

Thank you fren Ludwig for recapping the weird crap has been going on.

man i saw a guy on one of those reddits asking other people to do one for his own sister actually mind blowing how these people are allowed to be on the internet

NOT just twitch streamers. This happened to me after a drunk one night stand. This happens to singers, actresses, and men too. A schoolgirl in my country got killed by a stalker that fell in love with her without speaking once to her she never knew or could prepare. He lived across her school and watched her everyday felt heart broken when he realized she never saw him and stabbed her to death in front of her school with students and all. This happens to all.

Stalkers are not BOIS

2:30 - Summarization of Mogul Mail

the people who subbed/donated to this guy are sick

Thanks for fighting the good fight Lud, but seems like a never ending battle to fight creeps on the internet. At least you are one of the decent ones.

I don't understand why we even have the police, from the sounds of it they don't have to do anything.

The word you used was “delusional”, but it’s closer to pure psychopathy.

Small clarification there wasn't a shoot out. when he got in his car to leave, the cops pulled in behind him and he shot himself

"move on to the next creator then in 6 months" " oh shit i havent watched ludwig in a while" "and binge all my content in a week" damn dude perfectly described me lol.

Men need to crack down on other men who do wierd shit from a chat message to taking about finding the person without their permission. Like we need to wierd champ the hell out of every single weird thing or message

There's no way cvm tribute sub reddits don't cross some clear of line of sxual harrassment tos right?

I think we as an internet community need to start bullying those weirdos in chat so they don't complete the metamorphosis into Stalker

He got exactly 10 minutes I respect that

As his friend I love it when he reminds yall he’s not your friend.

Charlie made a video about this but he didn’t specifically mention that this is almost exclusively an issue experienced by women. I’m glad there’s prominent guys like you Lud who will say it in no uncertain terms.

8:11 I felt soo called out by that lmao

I love Charlie's "I'm not your dad" and Ludwig's "I'm not your friend" videos

I mean this shit also happens to famous (like actually Movie Stars and stuff) people and they couldnt do anything against it for years now. At this point this is a societal issue and no country is free of this perversion, objectification and sexualization. It is directly taught to you in children shows that chasing women like this might get her to turn around (she wont) so we really gott deal with this by teaching future generations better. So if youre younger than 18 and reading this remember women are also normal humans and unnecessarily chasing them after no will only make get restraining orders.

Even PO boxes aren't safe anymore apparently.

This scares the shit out of me. Traumatizing af

I got an ad for reddit app right after the video ended 😑

Video ends at exactly 10 minutes Ludwig: nice

Thank you Ludwig for making this video and specifically for your suggestion to ban the tribute subreddits. Subreddits involving nonconsensual but questionable dirty stuff have been banned plenty of times before when they have material consequences. I think this fits that bill.

you know what seems kinda funny to me is the fact that she says "44 days and 33mins" as if she stalked him all the time as well.

also Meg wasn’t just “Gavin’s girlfriend” she has a RU-vid channel and is literally a twitch streamer (among other talents)!!!

I remember sodapoppin had something like this that wasnt taken too seriously, but was pretty creepy from a viewer side of it, a girl had a whole shrine dedicated to him next to her bed.

This is another reason why mental health services are so important

I follow a group of streamers primarily in the UK called the Yogscast (some of y'all may remember them from the Minecraft early days). Recently they managed to get a subreddit entirely based on making NSFW comments and screenshots of the female streamers taken down. It took a whole coordinated effort to get the creeps to stop. I think that it can be done, and while there have been replacement subreddits for it, they are also being shut down.

i hope reddit does remove that stuff, pretty damn disgusting. but with how prevalent that type of thing is on the platform i don’t have much faith. i once reported a post making explicit sexual remarks n stuff about a female creator (who was also literally a minor) from some completely normal picture. i remember being so pissed off i directly quoted their tos and shit, and yet nothing ever happened. wasnt taken down or anything. maybe i didn’t report it the proper way or something, or maybe it needed to be reported by the actual creator themselves (which would be dumb imo), but i dunno regardless, i feel terrible for anyone who has to experience this kind of stalking and harassment. i hope there will be better crackdown on stuff both online and legally

Thia needed the "Do not eat while watching this video" tag

What a silly guy

My friend who is a small time streamer literally got rid of every single picture and video of her on public social media because some psycho said he would take her face and deepfake it onto a pstar and post it all over phub. She's now a vtuber but still has some of the more toxic/stalker fanbase that i knew when i modded for her. I jumped out because some of those started latching onto me and i was not okay with it.

That sweet anita dm is teeerrrifying. Edit: it's all terrifying :O

the most sane amouranth viewer

We still have a long way to go as a society in the expectations people are raised with. Girls were raised in the early 20th century with the expectation that they would make a good subservient housewife for a working husband...basically looking pretty and being a trophy. Obviously we've progressed on gender roles to a degree but the "looking pretty" aspect has come back around full circle with the advent of social media. A lot of young impressionable girls are growing up trying to look like the next big Instagram model or whatever...competing in a saturated content creation market where digital filters and editing can give everyone the "desired" look in pictures. The bigger and much more overlooked problem in my opinion though is boys not being taught or mentored at ALL at younger ages on how to respectfully interact with girls/women. You hear boys and young men talk about how they are "scared" or "don't know how" to talk to girls. There's probably nobody around to help them understand that the opposite sex are just human beings too, and don't need to be treated differently. Without an avenue to ever overcome that fear, many boys grow up lonely and lacking in social skills, particularly with women. In some cases, the only impressions they might have on interacting with women come from online gaming (and we all know how that is) or porn, or misguided misogynistic takes on social media. In most cases this probably results in a poor dating experience if any at all, loneliness, even depression. But all of this combined with more severe mental health issues and lack of coping mechanisms or outlets can produce these delusional stalkers who go way too far. By the time they are adults and planning something like this it's already too late. Society has failed that person. We have to do a better job teaching boys the social skills EARLY ON so they grow up understanding healthy interactions.

I feel bad for them. That shit's crazy.

Everyone remember: Freedom of speech doesn’t necessarily mean freedom from consequences

This is not just an issue for streamers but women in general, women deal with crap from men (not all men btw) all the time and it’s a huge issue

this is like critical's channel but ludwig

I have mild autism and I get hyperfixations on hobbies, creators, books, shows, etc. but not once have I EVER thought something like “oh they would fall in love with me and marry me” At most I’ve thought about how I’d try to just be polite and grateful for their content if I ever had the chance to meet them. Like if I ran into Lud somehow I’d be like “oh wow, nice to meet you, love your stuff! Hope you have an amazing day!” And that’s literally the MOST you should ever expect. And definitely not seek them out or invade their space. It’s a literal mental problem these stalkers have, and it needs to be recognized a lot more by officials like the police. Also I don’t follow or know really any female streamers, but my god, they all deserve SO much better. 😞 it’s fucking hard to be a woman when fucked up dudes like this exist and want to harm us. I’m sure male streamers catch this occasionally, but it’s definitely more prevalent for female creators

This was a great way to spread awareness. Someone needs to start a hashtag or something just to get this news out further because the harassment these people are facing has gone way too far

0:17 I like how she specified that Estonia is in Europe

There is nothing a woman can wear to justify behaving like a sick pervert.

Porn on the internet in general is what makes this happen It's a slippery slope, if you can do anything, don't start

Truly scary shit, I’m a huge advocate for justice reform and if y’all call your local congressman (in the US) we can try and push new legislation into effect to give police more preemptive power in these situations because as it is right now their hands are tied. The voice of the populous is very powerful let’s change the laws

tried to avoid NBA spoilers, and of course this man opens with it

Hey, if that guy in the thumbnail is the real stalker please consider removing him because this will just validate him to do more weird shit.

The rise of virtual addresses starts

There is no forgiving this man. He sold his cat

i really dont know how to feel about this. going to that levels of creepiness is out of the question but mental illness is the main reason they do this. i developed feelings for a tiktoker once. i never messaged them but they seemed perfect to me. and there was nothing i could ever do that would make me any different than the hundreds of other followers she had. it genuinely hurt for a while. i deleted tiktok soon after. im lonely, live in my parents house, unemployed, out of education while dealing with depression and severe social anxiety. i cant form lasting connections with people. if i didnt have the anxiety that i have, would i become like these people who stalk content creators. i avoid going to fan meetups because of this. both sides need to understand the other. and proper mental health services need to be widely available. i dont condone the actions any of these people have taken. but when youre that lost in your own head, sane decision making is almost impossible.

I think the police not doing more is not the police's fault. I had a friend who went through something similar and the police told her there is nothing that they could do. The problem is that laws simply don't protect people regarding stalking, especially digital stalking. Real change needs to be legal and the best way to do that is to contact your state government and or your house representative/senators.

The whole 'cumming' thing. I have had in the past in my DMs from past photos, and men asking. I know its a small percent of people/men but it hurts me that it escalates to people with a following. Thank you Ludwig for talking about this, it REALLY needs to be spoken more about.

The Internet: worlds most fucked up place, and you can't even physially be there.

“Reddit stop allowing weirdos” would force reddit to delete the entire site 😂

Uploaded to the right channel this time

Man these are mentally ill people, they need help! These are warning signs! If they go on to hurt someone in the future we can’t say that there wasn’t any warning signs.. the laws need to be harsher against stalkers. They need professional help.

any person in general especially women should be able to go on a streaming service or make content without getting harassed by some peice of shit.

What a surprise, the police were hard to work with

I don't think we should use any copyright law for this. This needs to be a policy on Reddit though.

8:15 literally on point lmao