I mean I agree that the season's finale is weirdly reliant on an old story, but I don't think that means the problem is that it's made for hardcore fans, the problem is it's made for Russell because he thought the idea was super duper cool. I haven't seen any "hardcore fans" think the finale was good because it had Sutekh in it
Welll i was adopted at two months, I knew i was adopted from a young age, I regarded my adoptive parents as my Mum and Dad. I was bullied at school for being adopted (this was 1968) and the headmaster's wife comforted me by telling me "Many children don't know if they were really wanted by their parents but you can be absolutely certain your parents wanted you". This is often said to adopted children and you can spot the logical flaw - it doesn't deal with WHY you were given up for adoption . Infact all you know is the parents you have now wanted you but your biological parents might not. They remain an enigma. So I enthusiastically identified myself as adopted. My parents wanted me. Being adopted was the best! And i'd almost introduce myself by saying, "Hi I am Tim, I am adopted" (much to my brother's annoyance because then people would ask him if he was adopted.) Life went on, our adoptive parents gave us all our documentation when we were 18. I read it all enthusiastically, but didn't think of it until decades later, my Mum died and I was left organsing the funeral and then got criticism for being controlling and then I thought dammit, I'll do something for my self, ME, and that was find my biological parents. And I did and it was amazing! The only thing I did that many adopted kids don't do is wait until my Mum and Dad died (or hid it from my Dad) because i knew that if I found my biological parents , my adoptive Mum and Dad would have been incredibly hurt and they didn't deserve that because they were my Mum and Dad. Now all this is in the context of 1960s closed adoptions and in the recent context of it being easier to find your birth family. Well you asked!
Thank you for sharing. All of that makes complete sense. Based on personal experiences with people I know, I really want writers to get this topic right
@@Stubagful TBH Ruby as a character didn't work for me but the actress who played her won me over by later episodes but never to her mystry box backstory. I think her reunion with her mother was very affecting but the set-up in the Christmas Special wasn't.
PS. I totally respect people who say that they don't want to find their biological parents BUT what I found was little old lady who had been trying to find me for a decade but couldn't because of the way closed adoptions work. As a young woman, giving me up, was the worst decision she had ever made but it was the Sixties when single mothers could be put in an mental hospital, or would be stigmatized or led to believe giving up he child would be for the best, especially for the child. When I met my birth father, he was a willfull eccentric who had runaway to escape the judgement of the small village he came from and to wander the world and hang out doing naked yoga with Modernist artist Elsworth Kelley, being elected as head master at a First Nations' reservation school in Canada and escaping even further to an island off the coast of British Columbia and hanging out with theatricals, weed dealers and a Polish Count
@@Tymbus Thank you for sharing! The story of your birth Mother sounds rather bleak and upsetting but it's so wonderful that you were able to gift her with a reunion. While your birth Father sounds like a fascinating character almost like something out of literature. I'm really glad that you found them.
Probably the best thing to come out of the sutekh reveal is the amount of fanart ive seen of sutekh and the TARDIS in episodes like Flatline when the tardis keeps changing, or utopia when jack clings onto the TARDIS in the vortex- meaning both Death and an immortal guy are hanging out together, etc
@@daedalus6433 it sure will. The best way to puncture a mighty ego is with laughter. It really sounds like no one working on Doctor Who can argue or disagree with RTD about anything to do with his script or production choices. RTD’s attitude is that his scripts don’t need to make sense because Doctor Who was always camp and silly. He might not take the show seriously, but he takes himself very seriously so laughing at (rather than with) his work is going to sting.
You know how Chibnall made his first series a jumping-on point, while his second was full of old lore, plus some additions to it? For some reason, RTD2 tries to do all that in one series.
Not even that, in those first three specials. I also hugely blame this on the ongoing "streaming" wars. For global viewers and even a lot of US viewers outside of Japan HBO Max and Disney+ is how they're expected to watch Doctor Who. Even if they still have cable or some version of live TV they can't catch every modern era episode on BBC America. And BBC iPlayer isn't a thing outside the UK. So now we're in a situation where all of modern who from Rose until the Power of the Doctor is on HBO Max (including torchwood and Sarah Jane adventures) and then all the new stuff starting from the 60th specials is on Disney+. For God's sake the first special picks up IMMEDIATELY from the power of the Doctor (which btw if you make a new viewer watch that they'll get a nose bleed; it pretty much only works for old fans). Like it's so ridiculous. If they really wanted to do the "new era" and season 1 rebrand then they should've just had Jodie regenerate into Ncuti and RTD could have written the 60th specials like a good bit of time has passed since then. Ideally skip all the Donna stuff, give the Doctor a new companion for those adventures, and then have the Toymaker be the first to reference past eras and imply that him being allowed into the universe led to a soft reboot of sorts. Then have us discover this new post Toymaker universe along with the Doctor who is trying to make sense of his own timeline as well. The biggest problem with this whole "season 1" mess is that this is literally the most bogged down by lore and prior history Doctor who has ever been which is insane considering the show in question. RTD and BBC (and Chibnall to an extent) were desperate after ratings tanked and just had to crank the nostalgia up to 11. The power of the doctor and 60th anniversary specials are so hard for new viewers to watch and then it's not like they happen and they don't come up again. The Christmas special is fairly standalone but as SOON as "season 1" aired it just started dumping exposition and lore on new viewers in space babies and then directly referencing giggle, those events, and even Susan in the Devil's Chord. It wasn't even like it was done in such a way that it felt well explained or not super important. As someone who watched all of that, it felt like I needed a refresher to figure out what the heck is driving the plot with Maestro as well constantly bringing up the Toymaker and 15 vaguely referencing that experience. Can't imagine how bad it was for new viewers. What's annoying is that RTD ALREADY did this so well in his first era. Series 1 felt like a clean slate with a very clearly important and talked about cataclysmic event. The Time War felt mysterious but also like something real that had weight and the way it was written with the Doctor who normally couldn't shut up NOT wanting to talk about it added to its weight by making it feel like something we SHOULDN'T know about. Then slowly over the seasons we got more information about the time war and reintroduced to old characters and villians. By series 4 the show had gotten really heavy with lore and references and callbacks and cameos, but by this point it felt natural and organic and viewer who watched from series 1 could feel apart of this world and decades of lore without feeling the need to go back to "an unearthly child". Then series 5 came along after the end of RTD's era and very similarly felt like a fresh start where what came before had weight but it wasn't driving the plot and scaring off new viewers. Now since Moffat's run was longer it did get bogged down for longer. By series 7 it'd have been really bad. Capaldi's run went all in on incorporating all eras of who and frankly I love that but for new viewers it'd have been terrible. Series 8 also really suffers from trying to do the series 1 regeneration and keeping Clara. I mean it's ironic. Had Eceleston not left for "creative differences" RTD probably would've had the same problem when 9 regenerated to 10 (had he stayed on that long) and expecting viewers to treat that as the same era. Series 10 is the next closest thing to a jumping on point and does a "kinda" good job but I mean you still have 12 and Missy (the Master) and even Nardole from the series 9 specials. It's a big reason why Series 11 having such bad writing was such a problem. That was the show's first time since series 5 that it was approachable for new viewers. Chibnall managed to turn off both new and old viewers instead. Leading to a show desperate to pull back in its old viewers while still wanting to promote itself as a jumping on point for new viewers. And that's really not a good combination in the current era of executives thinking everyone wants everything to be connected always (damn the MCU to hell).
There! I found it, praise for the previous regime that raises a good point but only after it's over with. People said it wouldn't happen this time, but I knew better.
RTD is a terrible show runner for this particular show, yes he got it off the ground in 2005 but that was nearly 20 years ago now and even that first series has some terrible episodes. He did better with the Torchwood spin off cos it didn't matter so much what he did with that show cos it wasn't a show with a history so he could do all the experimenting he loves doing and it didn't matter.
I feel like we had opposite reactions to the "death" of Kate, since it was when Carla got dusted that made me go "oh shit's real," and then it was when Kate and Rose got dusted that made me go "oh, this is all getting reset by the end, isn't it?"
Not a chance. They were originally hoping the series would air in January. RTD in DWM: “There’s still a lot of work to do. Tons and tons. In an ideal world, we might have followed The Church on Ruby Road with a full series of Ncuti and Millie in January, and believe me, we tried. Way back in 2022, we juggled schedules and budgets and capacity, but… nope. We’d have ended up spending money on the rush, rather than on the programme itself.”
@@willlegok9 genuinely the series would have worked so much better if it was scheduled and arranged better. The gap between the Christmas Special, the weird episode order & Ncuti Gatwa's unavailability made an already weird season of DW feel totally insane
@@StubagfulBeen watching you for ten years now! I remember you when you had long hair and a perpetual dressing gown and mug, complete with a Doctor Who style intro. I also remember the little disclaimer 'I do these videos because I care and whatever it's just my opinion.' ... Gosh time sure does fly.
0:00 Intro 8:13 The Church on Ruby Road 14:59 Space Babies 22:33 The Devils Chord 27:23 Boom 32:20 73 Yards 40:26 Dot and Bubble 46:30 Rogue 50:38 The Legend of Ruby Sunday and Empire of Death
I never watched Pyramids of Mars and had no clue who Sutekh was at the time. I will say the ramp up to the reveal really worked for me. Ive since gone back to watch Pyramids of Mars, its very good
It’s nothing new that an RTD season finale defies basic logic. But the problem with Empire of Death is that the Sutekh storyline and the mystery of Ruby’s mum just do not gel together. I wish they had just revealed the mum in Legend of Ruby Sunday and that then led to Sutekh turning up. But the idea that Sutekh is interested in Ruby’s mum is idiotic.
I'm not sure if you're aware, but 73 Yards is shockingly similar to one of the last Sarah Jane Adventures episodes- The Curse of Clyde Langer- Anyone who reads or hears his name immedeately hates him regardless of how they were acting the instant before- Sarah Jane is actually the first to be affected and kick him out, tearing down all the drawings he made for her, and Clyde's own mom also disowns him. It's quite scary
I did think 73 Yards was better though, if only because the end was "we've said his name and we now all love him again" (which I felt kind of undercut the weight of the story a bit). None of the other homeless Clyde hung out with got that magic get out card.
@@thecrispymaster I do think the ending was a bit trash, but I think it was better than 73 Yards honestly. 73 Yards is Russell T. Davis thinking about how clever he is to the point that he forgets to actually let anything make sense. The Curse of Clyde Langer- Them saying his name is a representation of people who abandon others; If they actually get to know the person they may find that they aren't actually worth abandoning. That's how I see it. And the way Sky and Mr. Smith aren't human so they aren't affected is so heartwarming- Sometimes people do need help and others to defend them. Seeing Mr. Smith flat out tell Sarah that she seems to be affected by a literal curse is so satasfying.
I thought the series was going to reveal that Ruby was a fictional character and the setup is this whole season was set within the confines of the Land of Fiction.
My art teacher started with Space Babies and got confused as to why Ruby was randomly entering the TARDIS, because she didn't see Church on Ruby Road due to it not being listed with the other S1 episodes on Disney+. Bet she's not the only lost viewer 'cause of that.
One of my main issues is that not only did we have 2 doctor light episodes, but we cut the episodes down by 8, that isn't enough to build up a plot, and while I understand that Gatwa was finishing off Sex Education at the time, I think it was both a mistake on Disney for pushing filming before Gatwa was done and a mistake on Gatwa taking the part if he had many other commitments. HOWEVER I understand he was committed to S.E and if something ever happened to his role as the 15th doctor before any filming, he needed S.E as a last safety net. But the snow, plot around her mom any other forms of sutekh story telling got buggered over because of pressure, a low episode count and Gatwa's 2 doctor light episodes. WHICH is still a shame because it was his first series, and having your doctor be so absent during that time hinders the story. I kinda also feel that they didn't get so much or really get a giant budget increase, more so that due to a lower episode count, they had spare money. ALSO.....I know people get tired of massive reveals, BUT I was hoping Ruby's mom WAS special. RTD wanted to pull a reverse Rey, but the issue was that it was a very situational and different plot, and she didn't need to be connected to the main starwars cast or inherit so many powers, legacies and name to piggy back on, Ruby defeating Sutekh and having something interesting with her mom is new, original and allows her to stand out and there is a payoff.
The story isn't finished, there will be more to come in Season 2 that will explain the Snow and more behind Ruby's place in the world. Russell has mentioned it both on Unleashed and in the Commentary for Empire where he also mentioned the Star Wars parallel. Season 2 will unveil Mrs. Flood's plans and who she really is
@@Whiteythereaper That's the issue though, the whole snow and inner song things were tied to Ruby's mom and Sutekh because of the power of "we think she's important and that was more powerful than any timelord or god" and because they beat Sutekh and found out who her mom really was, the whole snow thing doesn't matter anymore. No doubt we will be finding out more stuff and hopefully interesting stuff about Mrs Flood and while Ruby will be coming back, this is the end of Ruby's arc.
Speaking as an adoptee, while yes there can be points where I do wonder my origins and birth parents, hand on heart if I died tomorrow without knowing it wouldn’t matter. I’ve had a very lucky life and couldn’t be more grateful for my parents. I found the final two parter where people keep stressing how Ruby’s origin is so important even the god of death was interested very patronising honestly.
My headcanon is that Sutekh thought that the woman was pointing at him, not the sign, and was like "woah this girl can see me?? Who the hell is she?" And that's why he cared so much lmao
I’m also an adoptee, I know who my adopted parents were / are, and I found the finale to be gross and it’s soured me on RTD as a show runner. It’s tone deaf, patronising, and obviously ignorant to what adopted kids generally feel toward people who abandoned her. Someone should’ve told him no during the writing process
The issue I have with 73 Yards and Ruby's Mum's plot resolution is the same thing. In all fiction the writer has a contract with the audience of what the plot (or 'issue' to be solved is). The audience expects to be given the resolution (or something better) and the resolution needs to fit the genre/world. For instance in a Poirot type whodunnit you expect the plot to end shortly after the culprit is revealed. (And it doesn't turn out to aliens as that is the wrong genre) Romantic Comedy promises the girl will get the guy, and if she doesn't, she ends up with someone better (or some other 'better' solution) Harry Potter will resolve plots with a magic spell etc... He doesn't get out his iPhone and Google the answer (the solution needs to fit the genre) In 73 Yards the audience is promised 1 of 2 stories. A) the mystery of the old woman is solved or B) the prime minister is deposed. Plot B) is resolved around 2/3 of the way through the episode and we are left with A) ... Which isn't resolved... The resolution of B) showed that Ruby could 'use' the old woman to her advantage. Consequently she ceased to be a threat (which stops that being a possible plot) and we were left with the mystery for the last 15 minutes... Which was never solved... Throw in the fact that the events effectively never happened and the audience was robbed (Dallas shower scene anyone?) However if they'd made more of the prime minister plot and had Ruby get shot on the football pitch as the prime minister ran off then at least one plot would be resolved at the end. Yes the old woman isn't explained, but at least she had a purpose. Similarly for Ruby's Mum. It's a sci-fi show. The plot is dragged out for 6 months (from Xmas) Ruby is able to create snow, and the memory tardis. The Mum is able to hide from the Time Window thing, and her identity controls Sutekh. The audience was promised a sci-fi resolution and didn't get one (and for people watching a sci-fi show, the resolution given was certainly not better)
Honestly I probably would have preferred for this season to have ended with a more low key story where the main conflict is about Ruby finally meeting her biological mother and then the sci fi element is built around that. More of a character piece about the relationship between the two characters.
Can confirm with the adoption point. My sister was adopted from an orphanage in the Ukraine and she has zero desire to find out who her biological parents are. She was adopted when she 3 and was severely malnourished which lead to her now being 4' 11" as an adult (its very funny when we're in photos together because Im like 6' 3"). The whole last episode where Ruby was like "wow my real mom" was so wild to me because like, no shes not, your mom is Carla, Ruby.
Two points to add 😋 1. One of the things I love the most about RT Davis is his political commentary. The mileage varies, but at his best, he has an ability to make the message integral to the story in subtle ways, so it's understood on an almost intuitive level. I thought that worked great in The Devil's Chord. Yet, I keep seeing criticisms suggesting that it didn't resonate with most people. I thought it was a brilliant commentary on the current political landscape where the funding for the arts gets cut and people's worth keeps getting reduced to their economical value. All the things that make us human, literally the humanities, are treated with disdain. That is a sign of fascism sneaking in and yes, usually what happens before wars, so that destroyed landscape of London is not a ridiculous exaggeration. Dehumanisation is the first step to mass murder each and every time 🤷♀️ That's exactly where we're sitting right now and it's horrifying. Seeing that acknowledged is precious, yet seems to fly over people's heads. I'd love it if people who care about the arts actually defended them because no one else will 😅 2. I literally have a PhD in Film Studies and I watched plenty across all decades, starting at the very beginning of cinema. My reference points are not Marvel, I assure you. 73 yards seems badly constructed to me. I would love it if it did what you say, but I think it doesn't give the audience enough to allow for that interpretation. It feels like a failed attempt to copy the bent neck lady episode of the Haunting of Hill House. There was a multitude of ways to set this up better - from starting with a scene where Ruby assumes the Doctor might abandon her to making the inciting incident more clearly coded - why would a fairy circle feed on people's fears and insecurities like that? It's Dr Who, you can literally have creatures that exploit people's greatest fear, and make that clear to the audience. The lack of clarity is not improving the experience. There are plenty of things to love about the episode, but it's not communicating well.
My issue with 73 yards is it gives just enough information to make it unsatisfying when they don't solve it all the way, if you're going to do something abstract then commit to it fully
This was the quintessential example of the old tag line Screenjunkies made up, Doctor Who: Home to some of the best standalone episodes of TV ever made with a bunch of lore stuck onto the beginning and end.
The cliffhanger of Legend of Ruby Sunday is the equivalent of if some random guy appeared and the Doctor went "No! My arch enemy! Bing Bong McFrungus!" For someon who doesn't know who Sutekh is. My friend actually thought that Sutekh was the Doctor's name being revealed.
Especially disengaging as the character is just the same archetype that was built up to be the biggest threat ever and defeated by the end of the episode twice before in under 10 episodes. Just sorta feels like, if we ignore pyramid of mars, Sutekh is just another version of Mr Giggle
I miss Christopher Eccleston. I was 13 when the original series one aired in 2005. My mum made me watch it because she grew up with it from Pertwee. And back then up to Matt Smith anyway, Doctor Who was amazing. I miss it 😪
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Marti subplot of 73 Yards as that (plus the awful people in the welsh pub) put a dampener on my enjoyment of it. Edit: the other issue with the 'she was an ordinary person' reveal is that it doesn't really work with the random snow or Maestro calling her 'sick'. It pushes things over the edge, especially since they didn't really explain it. They had enough screen time to have Ruby go 'but what about the snow?' and the Doctor say something like 'I'm a time lord and being around me can make things we think about manifest sometimes'. It wouldn't have fixed the issue, but it would've helped.
You think you're old? I'm 50 and remember watching Tom Baker regenerate into Peter Davidson when I was about 7 years old and feeling utterly confused and captivated. Time is relative old friend 😊
"Dangerous Biggerist enemy yet!" Poetry. While Sutekh being there the whole time is a wild thing to foist upon us, it does recontextualize that one line from Craig in Rose, about the Doctor's one constant travelling companion being 'Death'. I dunno if Russell was being cute. I heard this saying recently (about GMing, but I think it applies to a lot of things) that your greatest weakness is your greatest strength but too far. Russell's greatest strength is writing characters that feel emotionally authentic, and a boundless enthusiasm to his ideas that paves over some of their mechanical shortcomings. There's been a big emphaisis on being big, bombastic and fun this season, but it needed a needed refining and tightening up in a lot of places.
can't claim to have watched whole video, but something that hit me about church on ruby road is how it keeps on running to The Flat Where Nothing Happens, just a null space where the one thing that happens is a person disappearing
With 73 yards, I said that the time that people who thought it should explain stuff are mixing up Doctor who as a Tv show with Doctor Who Wikipedia pages.
I think this series did have a problem with Russell writing it Some scenes that would exist feel like rheyve been omitted purely so that the criticism "hes just written the same scenr again" isn't used as with the scene with jackid anr rose in fathers day
True. Church on Ruby Rose was like Rose with certain key bits stripped out, but if those bits were there people would go "this is just Rose again" - I do recognise it was stuck between a rock and a hard place
@@Stubagfulcounter point, Family of blood exists, as does the star beast and Jubilee. In a show about time travel and causality and there being no coincidences something like that works and it’s how the show has survived for 60 years
@Stubagful who got him stuck there? He's the writer and showrunner, this is season 1 of his own new show and he writes himself into a corner because he's a one trick pony but you people forgive him for NOT reusing the only plot points he's able to write? The plot points he wouldn't need to be writing if he didn't set up the plot himself to go in the same ways it always goes when he's asked to write? That's asinine.
I had a feeling Stu would really be into 73 Yards. It was also my favorite and I also think it’s probably the best episode since Heaven Sent, and I’m also a huge fan of “what if we did something REALLY fucked up and weird?” Doctor Who stories. Midnight is probably my favorite of the stories I’ve seen and it’s a similar kind of vibe so there you have it lol.
I convinced my mum to watch it with me when I went to see her recently cause I knew she'd like it. We haven't watched it together since the late 2000s. She really liked it too. That experience was worth the whole season to me. Haven't had a communal viewing experience like that in a long time
"Some things are just not made for you." I have heard this for the last 10 years or so, about so many things. Star Wars is not made for Star Wars fans. DW is not made for DW fans. Witcher is not made for Witcher fans. And so on, and so forth, all the way back to Ghostbusters is not made for Ghostbusters fans. All is in service of the vaunted "Modern Audience", which never seems to show up. The viewing figures are crap, and I barely care enough about any of those "Intellectual Properties" to watch people online have fun shitting on them.^^
I think part of the intent with the reveal of Sutekh’s long term TARDIS-incubation was, like with The Giggle, RTD concluding another old idea within the show: the Doctor as a herald of death… by making it literal, and having him physically eject it from his ship. Which I quite like. It’s even set up in “Ruby Road” with the Doctor wondering if he’s the “bad luck” and in “Legend” with his admission to Kate about how he brings disaster. And I think RTD covers his bases with whether or not this ejection will result in any material change to the show in the same conversation with Kate. In it, her counter that the Doctor brings joy at once sets up the resolution where the Doctor almost literally does that, and allows wiggle room for the Doctor’s guilt to remain metaphorical.
I was adopted. I know it since I was young, people around me knew it and no one really cares. The thing was that, from time to time, either of my parents would come up to me and be like "You know you are adopted, I know it might be weird." or something along those lines. And it was always the same response from me "Shut up, I don't care." But this wasn't due to them feeling I would feel ashamed or something for having "older parents", since they adopted me when they were quite older than my other friends' due to their own circumstances. At the end of the day, they gave me a good life and that's all I care about. Knowing who were the two who brought me to the world could be something interesting, but it isn't something I'd ever lose any sleep about.
I think there's a little difference between being adopted due to parental circumstances (typical occurrence) and being adopted because your mother mysteriously abandoning you as a foundling outside of a church. If she knew her mum couldnt afford to keep her, or died, or didnt want her etc i think she'd have more closure. But yh I do agree that most adopted kids see their family as theirs
Did anyone else feel like the closing minutes of The Devil’s Chord turned into the opening 60s set scenes from the first Austin Powers movie? That had 100% fashionably dressed people spontaneously dancing wherever Austin went. A completely brilliantly executed OTT joke on the way that the trendy youth culture of the 60s had been mythologised
The bit with the reveal of sutekh in the legend of ruby Sunday did work for the new audience, i know people who have said thst even without the context it made it interesting as this ominous monologue made it" seem like its shakespeare announcing a new villain "
RTD's big change to the show was either running episodes in fast forward so they are squashed into 45 minutes, or having a normal story for 43 minutes with the Doctor suddenly finding a magic switch at the end. With this series, it's the same but with hardly any episodes, two of which are Doctor-lite. That seems to be the source of the problem - too much seemed to happen off screen and the 14 Doctor and Ruby were best buddies instantly and at the end she said she loves him. But we didn't see it happen. Also, 16:18 - definitely, definitely and thrice definitely. One way this series fails is the soft reboot thing - it's basically just 2006 again but with more consistency, complete with a nonsense finale.
I just think it's ironic the guy that got the show resurrected is now busy destroying it and for all the catch crying that this show is about change they keep getting old hands back like Davies and Tennant to keep it kicking along.
@@MrLtia1234 I care about the actual show too, and keeping the whole Timeless Child nonsense canon and ignoring a bunch of previously established rules does nothing but remove any sense that the Doctor is in danger, plus that it undermines every sacrifice he's ever made.
I wonder if there's more to "pointing at the sign" that may be revisited. The time window seems powered by Ruby's memory but the sign only appears after the Doctor imprints the idea into Ruby's consciousness. "The Memory Cheats" and perhaps there's something Inception-y going on.
1:08:17 "Oh,no! You mostly went hands-free, didn't you? Like 'Hey, I'm The Doctor! I can save the universe using a kettle and some string and look at me, I'm wearing a vegetable!'" ---Tenth Doctor, speaking to the Fifth in Time Crash
I don’t watch Stubagful reviews to gain a new perspective on Doctor Who I watch Stubagful reviews to see the incremental improvements of his sitckfigure art style over time We are not the same
The point of space babies being for new viewers is a weird one cause I don't know any point in my life where I woupd have watched space babies and not have been turned off by it (I also didn't like the fartimg aliens in 2005 either but at least that got better as I got older as the deeper meaning got clearer, this episode though doesn't have anything to say for those who aren't children). Also episodes like rose or eleventh hour which were for new viewers was also good for older viewers. I have no problem with not everything being made for me and that the wider audience should be equally catered fir but other fresh starys did a better job of balancing between the two audiences.
You put into words exactly the problem I'd had with Ruby's story but wasn't able to verbalise properly, the absence of key scenes to get us to actually care about Ruby and her motivations really did a number on my investment in the central mystery of her character, and in turn made her easily the least developed companion that Russell's written. She really puts me in mind of how Clara was back in series 7, a thin underdeveloped cipher beyond the mystery surrounding their backstory and role within the narrative, and carried exclusively by the excellent performance and chemistry with the actor playing the Doctor. It's a problem that probably could've been resolved if the series had more episodes that would allow us to see more sides to Ruby's character and better develop her relationship with the Doctor (I'm just going to defer to Council of Geeks' video which sums it up better than I ever could). As for the series itself, my thoughts skew mostly positive, albeit with some reservations. Most of the mid-stretch was really solid, I loved "Boom" and "Dot and Bubble", highly enjoyed "Rogue" and "The Devil's Chord", and I could definitely appreciate "73 Yards" for its abstract tone, narrative ambition and visual creativity, even if it didn't quite work for me. Unfortunately, my thoughts are tempered somewhat by the opener and finale both being rather weak, which is admittedly nothing new for Russell, but even by his standards I thought "Space Babies" and "Empire of Death" were especially lacklustre. That said, the production values have definitely been impressive, and throughout it all both Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson have given very strong performances on a consistent basis. My enthusiasm for the show has certainly been reignited after my disappointment with the Chibnall/Whittaker era, but the honeymoon period is definitely over for me, and I'm hoping that next season will build off this season's strengths and avoid the same weaknesses.
To be perfectly honest, I was incredibly close to watching The Seventh Seal when I was 8; just couldn't find it anywhere. Settled for a rewatch of Bill and Ted, as you do. Except I had to watch the first one because the second one had vanished somewhere when I wasn't looking.
My daughter was adopted. I know there are adopted people who have little to no interest in learning about or meeting their biological family, and I know there are some adopted people who are incredibly vested in finding them. But from my experience, for my daughter and most other adopted people that I know, it just comes and goes. There are phases in their life when they ask questions and push for answers, phases when they have a desire to meet their bio-fam, but for the most part they live life in the present and are more invested in their current relationships. And of course there are adoptive families in which some relationship with the birth family still exists, which is another category entirely.
A friend of mine started watching Doctor Who for the first time with "season 1". He found most of it impenetrable. Even though RTD marketed it as a new starting on point, it was bogged down by a weak season arc, and the 60th specials beforehand, and a lackluster finale.
It made no sense to set up threads in the 60th Specials, which were nostalgia bait to bring back fans who had stopped watching and then say Ruby Road was a jumping on point for new fans. The time to mention Susan and give a send off to Carole-Ann Ford’s portrayal of the character was during the 60th anniversary. They could have had her regenerate and not shown the new face, so they could then leave it open to bring Susan back with a new actress at any time. To just bait her return for nothing was just irritating for longterm fans. Retconning Pyramids of Mars to say Sutekh was trapped in the Time Vortex and not his own time travel was lame. Having the Doctor and Ruby watch Pyramids on what was effectively an iPad, while an ageing 80s companion was asleep in the corner, felt like an odd way to plot the series finale of a soft relaunch for a new younger audience
My mother abandoned me at the age of 2, she made her choice and i wouldn't waste my energy on thinking about her. I was raised by 2 loving parents and they are all that matters to me. All these shows drive me mad watching them.
Love hearing your takes on this new series (sorry, season) of the show. As much as Ncuti and Millie have this obvious chemistry it does feel like they end up becoming best friends from the moment they first met. Its sort of humbling to see you move to be a more casual viewer, I think I'm in the progess of slowly becoming that. Sure I have gripes with the season but they're issues and quirks of how Davies has always wrote the show. Space Babies had the babies suddenly change their mind on the snot monster, Dot and Bubble's ending has the subtilty of a bag of bricks and the anti-climax and general treatment of Ruby's biological mum was just a little odd. Building up a mystery before leading into an anti-climax could work but Russel then tries to set up the next mystery box with Mrs Flood and I don't know if I can bring myself to theorise about her now. It does feel like a fresh take on the show and that's all I really need it to be. If we get simple fun with ocassional superb episodes like 73 Yards I'd be okay with that. Each episode felt like it was aiming for a different tone and format from the last which was cool. I just hope we get to see stories increase in quality and see more new writers on the show. I feel like it'd be such a missed opportunity to not have a person of colour write an episode for Ncuti's Doctor.
This will likely get buried in the comments but have you ever thought about making a Twin Peaks video series in the vein of your Simpsons retrospectives? Would love to hear your thoughts on Peaks (especially the middle chunk of 2 and The Return)
@@Stubagful Ik, im joking, but seriously, I wanted to know what you thought and found out that we share a lot of similar opinions on this series, not all but most. Overall the series got me more invested and interested in doctor who than I'd been in the past couple years.
73 yards and dot and bubble made me very happy and positive for the future of the show. The season wasn’t great overall, and the series arc utter fell to pieces at the end, but I’m happy. We can get good, creative doctor who again.
Honestly, this season left me wondering if I'd started to outgrow Doctor Who because of how it mishandled certain areas like character development and pacing. I don't think the show is ruined forever, and I don't hate it either. However, I have made peace with the fact that this new series is trying to aim more for a younger audience who are more hyperactive, and are more likely to engage with more fast paced films and TV Shows. Looking back at the darker and more introspective episodes of both the late McCoy and Capaldi eras, I do feel that they succeeded in maintaining balance between Classic Who's traditions and the character driven storytelling that would come to define New Who. Doctor Who is first and foremost a "family" show, which means there should be things that people from different audiences can enjoy. But honestly, Series 14 (no I'm not calling it Series 1) feels more and more catered to a CBBC Audience with how lighthearted and kid friendly they were by comparison, which also made it harder for me to overlook the more obvious flaws of the episodes like pacing and exposition. Even episodes like Boom, 73 Yards, and Dot and Bubble where the character defining moments were meant to happen feel unearned because of how little we know about The 15th Doctor and Ruby as people. Sure, Classic Who didn't start doing overt character arcs for The Doctor and companion till near the end, but we could still piece together much of the character growth as the writers started to become more settled in with the status quo and eventual changes overtime. I just felt very deflated and empty when the series ended, it felt like I'd outgrown a friend and that it was time for me to let go and move on. That's just the mentality I have now, that Doctor Who will go on, but it's just not for me anymore.
I think rogue was meant to be partly for me as a non straight person but this episode highlights one of my big problems with this series and RTD in general, every gay character feels like a stereotype rather than a character who is gay (like with Bill, who I love, cause being gau isn't her personality). I also just didn't buy the romance, the doctor spends a few minutes with rogue and is now madly in love with them. It's like girl in the fireplace but completely missing everything that made it good. Also don't play a drinking game everytime they say bridgeton, you will die.
@cookieface80 she mentioned be gay like 4 times and it came up naturally in conversation (once when discussing a crush, once when a guy asked her out and once when talking about relationships with soke Romans and once in the finale. Oh qnd once in the Christmas special, 5 times, she mentioned it in less than 50% of her stories). She also acted like a normal person and not some sort of pantomime character, didn't find everyone they ran into attractive and had other things going on in their life other than being gay. Compared to every lgbt character in this series Bill was a better written character and better representation (unless you like being represented as over the top and not like everyone else in every depiction), not to mention had other aspects then being gay.
I saw this on Facebook today and as much as I try, I just can’t relate to the sentiment. “But think long view. That season planted a seed in many young minds. And I'm sure that in 10 years from now, there will be people on groups like this talking about how ncuti was the doctor they grew up with. Who encouraged them to be who they are. Another thing the doctor has always done.” I thought Rogue was a terrible episode in many ways. The murderous Bridgerton cosplaying bird people were cringe. The romance was terrible and if the Doctor thrusting away to Kylie was a sign of his seduction technique, I hope we never see another lust story. When I was a kid in the 80s, representation of gay lives on TV was rare and definitely controversial, with The Sun newspaper losing its shit over a gay kiss in EastEnders. I didn’t see any positive portrayals of gay lives very much in media until Queer As Folk showed Stuart, RTD’s first of several gay narcissist lead characters, broke the mould. Stuart wasn’t effeminate. Wasn’t to be pitied. He wasn’t just there to be the outrageously camp comic relief in a story about straight people. Stuart wasn’t ashamed of being gay. He was having a brilliant time, with guys throwing themselves at him. No one shamed him at work, where he was popular and successful. Of course I related far more to his shyer, self deprecating BFF Vince the Doctor Who fan. I didn’t know loving Doctor Who was a gay thing and a way of making gay friends, so cheers for that heads up, Russell T. Fast forward to 2024 and things are totally different. I find it hard to believe that gay kids now would be so starved of gay representation in media that they need to see Gatwa’s performance in Doctor Who to validate themselves? But do I feel like any TV series encouraged me to be myself or to practice self acceptance? Honestly, no. Maybe other gay people feel differently, though.
@AurumEtAes I know a few fandoms where there are younger people who were helped by positive representation (mainly in kids cartoons which weirdly handle the topic better than most adult shows do, like she-ra and owl house) but the lgbt characters were well written and were written as characters who were gay, not gay characters like what we saw in this series. For me as a kid if saw rogue and the rest of this series I'd have probably not been inspired to come out, cause if that's how people see me then I wouldn't want to. I think being seen in media does help some people, maybe ncuti will help someone, but it needs to be good representation. Good representation can also help normalise a marginalised group, which this series just doesn't do, it instead did the opposite and leaned into stereotypes (which isn't really new with RTD, Jack was a bi stereotype who wanted to sleep with anything), of cause they love Kylie and talk camp and do everything in an exaggerated manner and everything about them is being gay. I feel like what we got with ncuti and RTD would have been fine 20-30 years ago when any representation was welcome and just having a gay or trans character was an achievement but I expect better from shows now.
I'm not sure if you've ever considered doing this but have you ever consider doing He Who Moans videos about the EDA books, I remember you mentioning Camera Obscura back in your Divergent Universe video and I'm curious to know your thoughts about the range as a whole
Hey Stu, long time viewer from Australia here... I just want to let you know how much I admire your approach to DW reviews, and how genuine and/or charitable and kind you are to this material. Personally, I am definitely not a fan of what the show had become, and after watching a slew of negative DW reviews I fully get on board with the shouting matches and what "bigger" creators have to say... But then a little while later your reviews come in, and they ALWAYS offer a brilliant new perspective that, while maybe not matching my own, is refreshingly clever and way less negative. This is true constructive feedback, and I really appreciate that. Keep up the good work !!
Cheers :) Yeah most of this new perspective has come from actually talking to writers in the industry and reading a lot more theory than I used to. I think a lot of Yt fan communities could really benefit from that cause an insular community never learns anything
Corrections: It IS season 14, we dropped series for season in 2005. The two, nah, three audiences they're straddling is the UK hardcores, the Global hardcores, and new people, cuz in the US we absolutely do not sit and watch things as a family, we binge things by ourselves at 2am dreading having to go to work in 4 hours without having slept. As a US hardcore, I actively refuse Russel's force "reboot" labeling, it's redundant. No gap, no reboot, just a continuation of the story. The episode "The Pilot" is referring to the space ship fuel stuff, it was looking for a Pilot, like a plane Pilot, it wasn't an attempted refresh at all really. Babies don't watch Doctor Who outside of the UK, we're all adults over here watching, no kids. That's ONLY really a UK thing. Over here it's Teens (16+) and Adults. What Space Babies actually is is an abortion allegory, which would be fine if the point was correct, but Russel flubbed it, so the point is a fallacy instead of correct, which is pretty yikes tbph. Again, kids don't watch this show outside of the UK really. I was watching Nightmare on Elm Street and Jeepers Creepers when I was 8. What's your point? You keep mentioning the kids, there are no kids, over here the kids watch cartoons, no live action, cuz kids are stupid over here ngl. 73 Yards isn't even that hard to understand, it's a time loop story that only shows 2 loops, implying the 3rd, but not showing it. It's pretty simple. Don't step on fairy circles, or you'll suffer a set of time loops. It's not a ghost, or an abstract, fairies existed in Torchwood, like? Listen wasn't ambiguous, 12 had a mental breakdown, it happens (see the 6th's first ep). Miss me with that faith bs. Yeah, the racism bs at the end of Dot and Bubble was out of nowhere, and Russel's response to it not being obvious is to just label everyone racist, it's ridiculous. I had no clue what Bridgerton was, still don't. The gaymance was nice though. I mean, again, outside of the UK families aren't watching this together, maybe a group of us get together, but we're all adult whovians who've watched for ages already. Not only is Tales of the Tardis not on Disney+, it's entirely inaccessible outside of the UK without piracy. Not a ckrrection, but I can confirm, "what the fuck" were the exact words I said about the Sutehk clinging to the Tardis that whole time. Actually, Season 14 Episode 8.
With the lines "Doctor, I think she's crying. She's given away her child. She's crying her heart out." and "Records say her stepfather was... Well he was trouble. I think she did the right thing getting you out of that house." It kind of feels like RTD let Chibnall look after the production office while he got lunch or something
If there’s a difference between RTD1 & RTD2 eras is that RTD2 does feel like the Moffat & Chibnall have changed how Russell approaches who, for better and for worse
@@BH-98 Most likely, although I also think the much short season of eight episodes has also had an effect. It's really restricted the season with only 7 stories, two of which were Doctor light and another required you to have watched Pyramids of Mars. Plus I think Doctor Who just needs longer seasons to really get itself going, since the show moves around all the time, it means that the limited locations and cast of the usual 8 episode shows doesn't work for the show, we're unlikely to get a big two parter in the middle of future seasons because there isn't time. It feels like the modern format of television is really hurting the show
Great video Stu. I've watched you since the Capaldi era and I always enjoyed your content, but generally I disagreed with you, that's ok, It's nice to see different points of view; but these last few years I've noticed a shift in the logic behind the reviews: less "I don't think this is good" more like "Is this achieving what it proposes?" and honestly, that's a very innovative way of reviewing and, at least to me, very uncommon. I actually REALLY disliked Space Babies, but thinking of it as the story to bring new families into the show, who would have kids watching too, and analyzing through that is much more interesting, mature, and nuanced, also maybe more empathetic in some way. Anyway, lovely to still see you and see your work evolving!
30:58 I'm totally fine and ready to hand He Who Moans onto the next generation, I don't need to hear references to the size of Moffat's brain. Let me sit and do my crossword in peace
I watch stuff made for Japanese children as an English adult. "It wasn't made for you" has never stopped me enjoying anything unless it was badly made. Davies has lost it and Gatwa's Doctor is borderline emotionally incontinent.
think it's wild to make a series that tries so hard to be a fresh start in which the final stakes rely on the viewer knowing the Doctor has travelled extensively before now.
