Headspace-Operated Prototype Rifle - Yeah, it's as Weird as it Sounds 

Almost looked like an ar bolt catch. If this has last round hold open it bet it was the exact same.

Not only it is an HK G36 folding charging handle but also you can HK slap it.

@@calebreutener870 It does If you look a little tab extends forward and would get hit by the follower when t is a the way u. Exact same profile as on an AR

Satisfying though

@@losos1 2 1

I was thinking about how much this resembles the H&K delayed blowback action.

Do we call it the Weird-Springfield-Based-Prototype-Gun-Slap?

@@DrSabot-A Yes

I made an SMG version of this that was visually based on the Ribeyrolles carbine years ago, lol. Didn't know it was a thing until today.

@@Dreams_Of_Lavender made?

@@nosuchthingasshould4175 "Made" as in created a concept model in Blender. Not "made" as in created physical prototypes.

I wouldn't say they are shit designs but simply limited by technology at the time. The working principal of this design just needs to be figured out and this guy simply had trial and error, not high speed cameras and other tools in order to perform any diagnostic checks. Plus it was stuffed inside of an unwieldy form instead of a typical assault rifle.

@@Dreams_Of_Lavender Color me disappointed.

I can't even figure out how the bolt could have been made. (The lug slot in particular).

Sorry I had to disrupt your 420 likes.

The idea is kind of a G3 on steroids: no piston, brute force on the bolt, much less delay than the rollers, and a big mass moving. It would kick like a mule, I guess.

Maybe they were making work out equipment from surplus guns

You don't have enough stopping power unless you risk breaking a recruit's shoulder

There are so many things you can HK slap and I do it at every opportunity because it feels so good to do.

fuck, you beat me too it lmao

I am guessing you're my age, and you grew up watching the action movies of the 80s and 90s, when the HK Slap was the most bad ass thing you could do. Slapping that bolt home on an MP5 was even cooler than racking the slide on a pump action shotgun. You always knew a helicopter was about to be shot down or an alien was about to die.

@Sichael Mender Well, as a gun girl I can confirm that a slap to the hind is the perfect way to make sure I am loaded. :)

@@homeopathicfossil-fuels4789 Wow 😳, lol

That's what I decided once Ian got to where the rifle was in it's development. An early prototype, like this probably was, doesn't need a shoulder stock, because nobody is ever going to shoulder it. It will only ever be fired from a clamp, and a shoulder stock would just get in the way.

It doesn’t look poorly built enough imo, although that bolt doesn’t look too reliable to run reliably and with wear maybe a premature ejection problem

@@egg5474 because all prototypes have to be crude We dont know if this was v1 or v10

@@justarandomtechpriest1578 no one said it was crude. But by definition a prototype is not a production model and should be distinguished as such to prevent it from entering distribution or being used for other purposes. A rifle of this design without a stock is not likely to be picked up and fired by anyone other than it's intended operator

@@christopherreed4723 atf says if you can't shoulder it then it's a pistol, so there ya go 🤠

The mullet of rifles

Yeah, except it's "what doesn't blow up" instead of what sticks.

*seeing what stuck... together?

Honestly the AK is the only gun I see in action and I'm like "yeah, I know how that works actually" Most other guns I understand in theory but I squint a little and theres a lot I dont get

Blowback is easy enough, it's literal weight and spring force that's holding the cartridge in place. Direct impingement uses gas from a fired cartridge to rotate the bolt. Now, roller delayed blowback is... Hard.

@@gerrymandarin6388 Recoil operated is similar to Blowback but the barrel moves with the bolt. Short Recoil: The barrel moves half to length of the cartridge before the bolt travels the rest of the way. In Long Recoil, the barrel travels the full length of the cartridge.

@@gerrymandarin6388 Blow-forward and rotating-barrel, short-recoil are both reliant on the bullet's friction on the barrel. It's a simple enough concept, but I'm still amazed that it works.

This is how I feel about both firearms and cars lmao

Jurassic Park reference I think. I'm an engineer in a completely different field. I can no longer whatch that movie because the engineering of the park is so bad it's unbelievable. Those weren't engineers building that place, they were scientists pretending to be.

If it ain’t broke you haven’t tinkered enough.

Always have been. D:

@@userJohnSmith a scourge on this earth. Pretendgineers

Why not just use youTube Adblocker.....What's an advert?

As of Dec 2 I think a new policy went in place where youtube can claim ad revenue from a demonetized video and make out with 100% of the profit. It's obscene.

Ian's already said he has adverts turned off, so as ZiggyDoes mention, this is 100% money going to Alphabet rather than any going to Ian

On any video: Start video. Skip opening ad (if possible). Drag play marker to the end of video. When video refreshes, replay video AD-FREE!!!

@@braden1986 That's Inrange, not Forgotten Weapons. This channel has not been demonetized.

@@slaughterround643 uqywwy

are you who you say you are are you who you say you are

@@Dapstart all your base are belong to us

no can do. already filed under "stuff I didn't know I needed"

@@ericvantassell6809 Oh look, it's a proto Shockwave. . . . .

The Brits did the same thing with their Lee Enfield SMLE Mk3.

Same...

Why are u going to bed at 8 am 🤔

@@d3734 Some of us work nights

Goodnight!

Don’t lie all of us that work nights know he posts when we should be going to bed lol

If you ever have to chose between paying patent royalties for a sensible design, or patenting your own back asswards, bizarrely complicated design, always chose the latter!

"Weird" keeps the lawyers at bay!

Not demonetized. That's Inrange

@@slaughterround643 Not capitolism, only left wing 'capitolism'.

@@wingracer1614 does RU-vid actually let Ian profit from his work? Yuck FouTube anyway.

@@larrythorn4715 Yes. If they didn't, he couldn't put out videos every single day.

1: Ian has a Patreon 2: *laughs in adblock

That's my immediate thought on the matter as well. It seems like a concept that ought to have received more investigation than it has, given that the original Remington 51 seems to have been well liked - if something of a market failure due to cheaper competition - and the .45acp 53 was rated pretty highly based on early testing, but turned up just a little too late to compete with the 1911. On the other hand, I gather the recent revival of the 51 was an utter disaster, although I have no idea to what extent that was a finicky system, poor quality control, or the combination of the two.

@@discerningscoundrel3055 The similar system in the Remington model 51 works reasonably well due to the much smaller chamber pressure of the ammunition (about a quarter of the 30-06). Also, it is a civilian weapon, where environmental conditions are rather mild, compared to battlefield conditions. I suspect reliability was a problem, not only due to manufacturing tolerances of the ammunition, but also the thermal expansion effects messing with the operation (and this is a prototype, for a series production rifle, tolerances of the rifle, and wear from long-term use would further reduce the reliability).

@@SolyomSzava Yes, I can imagine the pressure of 30-06 will have presented something of a challenge, especially as this was decades before fluted chambers were a thing.

@@discerningscoundrel3055 not that long before fluted chambers. The AVS-36 had them. (Predecessor to the SVT38/40)

@@SolyomSzava I mean, there were other high-pressure delayed-blowback guns being made at this time, it's not a difficult problem to solve - modern ones use fluted chambers, guns of that era just required oiled/waxed cartridges to extract properly. This also looks like the actual chamber is longer than the round is, so case-head separations are unlikely, but ripping the rims off cartridges probably WAS an issue if you ran un-lubricated ammo.

Literally every sane person.

>not switching to needlefire ok boomer

Are you a muskateer??? My old 50 cal. stainless Remington 700-ML, probably the most dependable deer 🦌 killer. Every shot has hit the intended deer and dropped him in his tracks. Even with a 7mm Magnum, you have a runner sometimes....

Fudds gonna fudd

(he probably just placed an order for a dozen 30 round magazines)

I'd call it impulse delayed: breechhead (?) delivers impulse to bolt carrier, is then halted by the bolt, bolt carrier continues rearward on impulse alone and unlocks the bolt. A Newton's cradle, but clearly more fun.

Yes it's basically delayed blowback. The cartridge can blow the bolt head back a short distance and get the carrier/buffer moving before the bolt head bottoms out on the main bolt body. That buffer then has the energy to cycle the system. Kind of reminds me of Pedersen's hesitation lock system only with a rotating bolt instead of tilting bolt.

All of you are wrong lol yes it is a delayed blowback, like a CETME rifle, using a high-pressure rifle cartridge. The closest thing this resembles is easily a CMMG rotary-delayed blowback system, where the inertia from rotating the bolt is the "delaying" force. Although, I will say yes, this does look like an enlarged portion of half an HK roller-delayed system.

@@dravidiantommylinson3880 It's the same hesitation lock operating system as the Pederson - the bolt is allowed to move a very small amount, which sets the bolt carrier in motion (a slide, in the case of Pedersons Remington 51) which then opens the bolt after some delay. However, the locking mechanism is a rotating locking piece. It differs substantially from the CMMG, as it features a small movement of the bolt, then a stop, then a subsequent movement. After the initial movement of the bolt head, it unlocks in a similar way to gas operation or straight pull bolt action, with the bolt carrier unlocking and providing motive force to the bolt. By contrast, the CMMG system does not involve any stop and restart in the movement of the bolt head, instead the bolt head is allowed to move back, but to do so it must move an additional mass faster than itself, slowing the initial opening, but not the rest of bolt travel. The CMMG can be grouped with lever and roller delay systems in that they all rely on a bolt body having to move faster than the bolt head to slow the initial opening, whereas hesitation lock is somewhat weirder. It's difficult to clearly explain hesitation lock systems simply because they are so unfamiliar.

Maybe a Twist-Delayed blowback?

The stock was cut when the prototype moved on to the next stage.... Then it became a Ref. Model of development travel.....

@@PhilipFear And it probably was never very safe to fire.

Just tell everyone it's a pistol. Specifically the ones you don't like.

@@michaelbaker8284 Oh look, it's a proto Shockwave. . . . .

@@bengal2441 Now I feel like an idiot... I tend to forget match and wheel locks and default to flint...

Idk i don't have any ads

@@yahyamusseb it's not a jabb att Forgotten Weapons , some other channells have spoken upp about youtube putting more ads on theis videos

@@watata1t Exactly. I've noticed that content RU-vid doesn't like has way more ads now. Some of the political stuff has ads every 3 or 4 minutes on some videos. I assume it's an attempt to get people to get annoyed and not watch?

Why aren't you using Adblock

not good considering its demonetized , ian isn't getting any revenue from ads on his channel RU-vid is

not enough gears for it to be german

@@notgray88 But the H&K slap

Why not...

Oh, so it's Gunther's skull gun from Deus Ex, eh?

"No. I wanted orange. It gave me lemon-lime."

Nah you use willpower to shoot it

"Why does this gun not have a trigger?"

@@benjaminbreeg6214 you shoot it with the force

Go for it bro!

*DO EEEET!*

Fuckin’ go for it

Embrace thy destiny brother!

@Paul Putter Steamin’ DO IT!

It seemed like that almost anything could work.....and then it didn't.

People apparently *really* hated the idea of drilling holes in barrels back then. Once they got over that mental block everyone quickly settled on gas operation.

Same

It's an AR that you can HK slap, and that is awesome

Hesitation lock. The bolt moves, then stops, then moves again. *Very* freaking weird.

@@jaysonbrockman998 not like the CMMG version. CMMG style, once the bolt starts moving, it doesn't stop until it is all the way back. I mean, yes, it's sorta blowback operated and it has a rotating bolt. But not really.

That tiny little explosion isn't tiny relative to the amount of space it's contained in. Sure, outside of a chamber the blast radius would be like, an inch or two for most intermediate calibers, but remember, that's crammed into a .30 cal hole

Well let’s do some (really rough) math: 30-06 has 60kpsi max pressure. (Bolt thrust of about 4.5 metric ton) Say the bolt head only travels 2mm? (About 0.080 inch) I’m just guessing based on that Ian kinda showed us [The difference between max and min SAAMI spec is 0.51mm] A force of 4.5 ton applied on a distance of 2mm is approximately 90 joules or half the energy of a .22lr. Those 90ish joules are only used to unlock the bolt (against friction on the locking lug and case head, I’m including that at the end as a note) Using 90 joules and vaguely guessing the bolt carrier weighs 100g (3.5 ounces) [half the lightest of AR15 bolt carriers] The bolt carrier is thrown backward at 40 meters per second (130fps) The camming surface appears to be about 3/8 inch? I’ll use 10mm. So the bolt carrier is travelling 10mm backwards at 40m/s The bolt unlocks 2.5 milliseconds after ignition? Once the bolt unlocks the whole bolt/bolt-carrier/bolt-head share momentum/energy and would be travelling around 20 meter per second or 48 miles per hour. Plus any residual gas pressure left in the barrel which at this point is well below 10k (not enough for me to worry about personally, however I will note that being nearer to 6k, the thrust provided by residual gas would be comparable to 2x 22lr’s at once) My estimations also suggest 20-100 joules of energy is lost in friction between the locking lug and receiver (steel on steel coefficient of friction is vague) Once tuned right with consistent ammo the recoil shouldn’t be too bad

@@thomasa5619 you: "some really rough math" Also you: *writes a complete dissertation, thus completing your PhD in science having previously majored in ballistics *

Not Graham. I estimated like 3 different measurements using “gun jesus’ finger” as a reference ignored several aspects then randomly decided “once it’s tuned it’s probably cool” It should do the job. But it’s still rough. I just enjoy math

@@thomasa5619 gun Jesus fingers are an official unit of measure, and you can't convince me otherwise.

The inventor was tinkering with head spacing. No need for a stock for shooting/storage if he’s using a string to pull trigger

My thoughts exactly! It is a prototype, and tinkering with the headspace mechanism...who knows what goes flying.

Same thought here, a cut-off stock would be easier to fit in a vise contraption for remote firing.

It's when YT decided that they could monetize 'demonitized' content, and can now use ads to 'punish' content they disagree with. All while YT can now pocket all the revenue.

Since you decided not to install a browser with an ad-blocker.

@@TheAttacker732 I expect there to be an ugly lawsuit about it. The TV channels have to pay ad revenue to the show producers (production company), it's a legal *requirement.*

@@TheAttacker732 Except this content is not demonetized. You're thinking of Inrange

@@wingracer1614 Huh. I assumed that anything firearms-related was (effectively) permanently demonetized.

Hmm, I may have been mixed up - Krnka did patent both primer-actuated and headspace-operated rifles, but the dates on the patents I found are the other way around - primer-actuated first (Nov1,1900), then headspace (Oct8, 1908).

NVM, found the original source - in Danzer's Armee-Zeitung 45/1901, "Kaisertreu" (i.e. Krnka himself) states that primer-actuation was a fix for headspace-operation; specifically the "unavoidable" case head separations. Admittedly, his anonymous writing makes it somewhat unclear whether that's from Krnka's own experiments or just "common knowledge."

Considering the case is "insta-heated" during firing, maybe not all that much, but we may never know ;)

@@kenbrown2808 It also sounds like an ammunition manufacturing nightmare.

@@tarmaque I'm sure it could probably be done with today's metallurgy but I imagine the cost per round would be insane, not to mention the brass would likely have to be scrapped after every shot.

Or even a sks the way it drops out

The G3 is a Roller delay locked breech. The cartridge doesn't move inside the chamber without the head of the bolt also moving back to force the rollers out of the notches in the side of the trunnion. I have several. I do like them, but they most of the time destroy the brass because of the fluted chamber. I also reload everything I can. Some of the brass can still be resized and reloaded. My 93 in 5.56 destroys the brass completely.

well as far my antebellum historical knowledge, they were pretty much the same persons.as people who asked trapdoor conversion.

At that point, you'd expect the end to be finished like the rest of the furniture, no?

i would guess so! I mean, i have no idea. I don't know anything about gunsmithing. I'm just trying to think for reasons why the butt could be missing. Maybe young was planning for some modular polymer stock? :P Maybe at some point someone deemed the gun unsafe and cut the butt off to try and dissuade potential shooters?

@@TaxiServiceMods as old as that cut looks, I think it was cut off to fit into the test fixture, pulling the trigger via string. Because that system is going to blow up cases.

@@slaughterround643 If we're sticking things in the dictionary, I think the difference is there's initial uncontrolled movement. Mechanically delayed blowback starts off with bolt constrained... ah, what am I trying to describe here. How about these; delayed blowback = constant motion on all parts interrupted blowback = some parts are locked until other parts interact with them or: blowback = impulse acts directly on operating mass delayed blowback = impulse acts on operating mass at mechanical disadvantage interrupted blowback = impulse acts on operating free mass which then actuates lock Or... if a short recoil action is defined by the action recoiling a short way to unlock, shortened to SRA, is this an SCA, short case action?

That's my suspicion. When you're stretching cases, you're going to blow up a few!

I'm here for the early 1900s version of www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/i-just-dont-like-plastic-guns.181381/page-6

That's just a simplification of the Browning tilting barrel, where they moved the locking lugs to the ejection port. And I'm pretty sure that doesn't work well in rifle calibers.

@@slaughterround643 true, not gonna lie