Hearing is Believing - The Ultimate Small Mixing & Mastering Room

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This video lets you hear RealTraps' amazing new modular treatment solution as if you were right there in the room. If you have the desire - and budget - for the very highest quality, this is the treatment solution for you. It's also ideal for regular 2-channel hi-fi listening. Presented by RealTraps partner Doug Ferrara, graphs show the huge improvement in frequency response and decay times at all frequencies. You'll also hear music as recorded from both the front and rear of the room.
If you have technical questions about this video that require a reply, please do not post them here as comments. RU-vid is not a good venue for a technical exchange. Please post your questions in whatever audio forum you know me from, or post in my Audio Expert forum:
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5 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 200

@Harrysound 7 лет назад

Great video. Even if it does feel like I'm watching a VHS I pulled out of a box in the garage.

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

None of us at RealTraps are professional presenters, but we have a lot of good advice to share. It's a lot easier to present technical info coherently by first preparing a script. Most educational TV shows are done the same way, but by professional announcers who don't sound like they're reading!

@thegroove2000 4 года назад

I spent thousands on gear when I should have spend the money first on room treatment. No wonder I was never really happy and content. Thanks Ethan for your insight. It is valued.

@JacobWildrick 5 лет назад

Best video regarding control room acoustics I’ve seen after a 2 day research grind.

@EthanWiner 4 года назад

Thanks Jacob.

@ric0157 11 лет назад

This video is a great demonstration of proper acoustic treatment. Through the monitors the difference was very obvious. Those diffusers sure made things much clearer. Great Job!

@2009soundman 15 лет назад

The "before" and "after" examples underscore the value of effective acoustic treatment. Narrative and visual materials are well organized - a very interesting and informative presentation indeed! Five stars!!

@astralum 15 лет назад

Grate video, i love how you clearly demonstrate the difference so that everyone can hear the importance of acoustic treatment. Cheers!

@adence 10 лет назад

this video is eye opening. thanks for the upload

@bryanturner9523 4 года назад

Eye opening bahahaha

@jasonmelo9379 4 года назад

Amazing. Lol

@scojomusic1 3 года назад

Wow! Huge difference, even on laptop speakers at a low volume. I'm impressed.

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

Acoustic treatment is not supposed to be random, but often it is when people don't know what they're doing. The RealTraps web site has many articles that explain the right way to do this.

@haarisabbasi 12 лет назад

The bass traps made a HUGE difference in reverberation noise. I would definitely like to purchase a set for myself to mix. My low end seems to be really suffering.

@byronmarais 10 лет назад

Thanks Ethan. If I lived in the states I'd be a customer. But thank you for all the effort in helping others. Much appreciated.

@Hexspa 11 лет назад

Thanks again, Ethan. Since treating my room I've enjoyed hundreds of hours of improved acoustics in my living room. I've yet to add diffusion but it sure does sound to give that finishing "professional room" touch. The "back of the room" examples without diffusion sound very similar to my own room.

@EthanWiner 11 лет назад

Yes, this particular setup is expensive, mostly because there are so many diffusers. But you don't need all this to make a meaningful improvement! Even four bass traps plus two reflection absorbers at the side walls will make a very large improvement in a room this size.

@edwardwu2749 4 года назад

I get diffusers are better than no diffusers, but at what point of depth is diffusion not worth it?

@Gamez4eveR 2 года назад

@@edwardwu2749 as a rule of thumb you don't want diffusion too *close* to the listener, from what I heard, with "skyline" diffusers you should have at least a 1.8m/6ft distance, QRD diffusers are more forgiving in that aspect. If you can't get further than that you should use absorption.

@EthanWiner 2 года назад

@@Gamez4eveR Proximity is based on the depth of the diffuser. And it's not always bad to be closer than what's usually predicted: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vb30CICG68c.html

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

For sure, most people won't invest at that level. But many do. One of our clients with this setup is a well-known mastering engineer with a Grammy for his work on a Black Keys CD. But as you observed, even a few well placed panels can make a very big improvement.

@ionraygun 13 лет назад

Good video, shows that you really can tame the acoustics in a smaller room.

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

The cost for all that treatment is around $12,000. But you can get a big improvement in most rooms for much less than that. This was an extreme example showing what's possible.

@Hexspa 7 лет назад

Hey, Ethan ;) To RU-vid: DIY is the poor man's friend. I don't have any Real Traps but, based on what I've seen, they make great stuff. You can definitely get results from DIY options, though, as well as reading Mr. Winer's free resources and joining him at The Audio Expert Forums!

@jimolson9671 6 лет назад

Eagerly anticipating my mega trap starter kit! Should arrive maybe later this week. I know this will make a tremendous amount of difference. It cost $3000. That should be a very good start for my application. My room is 13 1/2 x 18 x 7 1/2 so it is somewhat small. I will let you guys know how it does once I get it and get it installed.

@pac0re 6 лет назад

how did it go man?

@EthanWiner 11 лет назад

As I recall we used about $14,000 worth of acoustic treatment for this comparison, but you can obtain a huge improvement for much less than that. Most people spend a few thousand dollars to treat a room this size.

@EthanWiner 11 лет назад

The concept "needs to develop" is flawed. Waves don't develop, they exist as pressure changes. If waves needed length to develop, headphones wouldn't work. The only factor that's affected by distance as regards listening through loudspeakers and recording with microphones is the presence of reflections from nearby surfaces.

@SheldonKreger 7 лет назад

First thing I'm doing when I buy my own house is having Ethan treat my drum room! Life goals!

@keegonde1800 5 лет назад

Not what I expected when I googled RealTraps, but not disappointed either. Looks like a great product.

@MrRafaelblock 13 лет назад

Awesome! I can clearly hear all the differences even on my laptop with tiny speakers....

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

@MRHDOTCOM1 I some cases room EQ can help a little, in conjunction with bass traps and other treatment, but it's not a substitute for treatment as many believe.

@mygirlfriendismean 2 года назад

First step is finding your spot. Jesco has great tips for that. Next step is bass trapping. Then more bass trapping. I love this video because it really shows the value of diffusion, a hard thing to explain.

@acelakid94 10 лет назад

I must have listen to this clip a dozen times through my speakers with an inferior stereo setup and never really noticed the HUGE difference with the song at 7:00 until I corrected it by sitting at the exact same distance of my front left and front right speakers (forming an equilateral triangle). If you're stereo setup is right, you'll distinctly hear that weird sound at 7:08 start at the right side then pan to slightly off center left and then go back to the right side. I just thought that was really cool since you can't really hear that before the room was treated.

@glennlangford5897 5 лет назад

Excellent, the best comparison video I've seen yet. Shame that treatment solution would cost more than my entire construction budget. Hoping a DIY solution will get me 90% of these results.

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

We use a thin plastic membrane behind the fabric, and it does work much better than plain rigid fiberglass.

@slapopimp 11 лет назад

I think the diffusers and absorbers examples are far more meaningful than the no treatment examples are. The none treated room seems to have nothing at all in it such as furniture, carpet, and other items that occupies typical bedroom space- therefore naturally minimizing some reverberation and other issues. Of course an entirely empty room would sound particularly horrible and be unusable. Good video though!

@squidskunk 15 лет назад

verrrry informative....well done...and thank you.. one problem...most people whatching this vid. will not have treated listening inviroments...so they will not be able to get the full/entire effect of the tutorial...they expirience the same problems you address in the vid. in their own rooms...and that is a shame...

@blcklstd6156 5 лет назад

This is where I want to be at this age, a super Saiyan, All wise, music expert

@Paddykahn 10 лет назад

most helpful video I've found so far!

@EthanWiner 11 лет назад

That's called Lonesome Road, by Dean Elliott, from an album called Zounds What Sounds released in the 1960s.

@garrykingmusic 8 лет назад

Another great product idea, been checking out a lot of products like this, best Garry King, Drummer, Producer (Jeff Beck, Joe Lynn Turner)

@EthanWiner 8 лет назад

+Garry King Thanks Garry. Jeff Beck is my all-time favorite guitar player.

@TheMattd546 12 лет назад

awesome! thank you, what a nice studio you have there, thanks

@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 13 лет назад

@electroneticTV you have to pay attention to the key words in the title. When you MIX and MASTER you want to have neutrality. This is not a room to RECORD music in. That is where you want character and ambience, special reflections ect for certain Recording applications.

@kusgilb 13 лет назад

Great video Ethan. More than just a subtle difference. I sort of like some aspects of the sound of the untreated room, now all you need to do is develop a wet/dry lever for the room. ;-)

@nomorevidz4418 11 лет назад

Thanks. I will be definately looking into finding something that fits my purpose and budget.

@KlooslessMusic 8 лет назад

Excellent video, thanks!

@jaytyranus 3 года назад

I must have watched this video 100 times now, thanks for this. BUT I just noticed something. All the traps are right up against the wall! All the traps are 6", I wonder just how much better the improvements would look like with that extra air gap in place?

@EthanWiner 3 года назад

Good call! We did space the panels slightly away from the walls, though not the full six inches.

@EthanWiner 13 лет назад

@StillLearning1000 I don't think you can judge the naturalness of monitors by listening to a recording made in a room through a Zoom H2 portable recorder. The point is to hear the relative reduction in room tone after installing diffusers and bass traps. Regardless, those are Mackie HR824 pro monitors.

@EthanWiner 15 лет назад

Yes, though you can avoid that with headphones. But even in an untreated room the difference in clarity is pretty obvious.

@djrbfmbfm-woa 11 лет назад

ethan. excellent info. thank you so much. j.

@bc527c 6 лет назад

Nice vidi, does a fine job of illustrating the subject, and impressive results. I have a room nearly the same size and have labored mightily with my own DIY ideas... and while my results are pretty good... they aren't as pretty good as this...

@davidaliperti 12 лет назад

@EthanWiner sorry to bother you, (first of all thanks so much for your articles), I am in REW and spent many hours tryng to calibrate my audio card, it is an maudio 1814, i plug in the mic input 1, the line output 1 but it doesnt see any input , i tryed in many ways,

@EthanWiner 13 лет назад

@electroneticTV Did you watch the video? This acoustic treatment completely cleaned up the excess ambience and ringing in the room, and made the sound neutral. Which is what you want in a listening room.

@JimiHandtricks 10 лет назад

Amazing! Thank you.

@EthanWiner 13 лет назад

@usedmanateesalesman We have many different products starting at a much lower price point. This video is meant to show what's possible in a "money is no object" setting. These days many professional mixing engineers are using small rooms. So for someone who has $40k worth of audio gear, and needs their room to be as accurate as possible, this is the solution. In fact, recent reviews in Pro Sound News and Pro Audio Review profiled Magic Garden Mastering, our customer who has this modular system.

@StillLearning1000 13 лет назад

Very impressive demo. It clearly shows the improvements. I know less than nothing about any of this, but I have some reservations about the monitors used. They don't sound like anything I've heard before. Very clear, but very unnatural. Is this typical of studio monitors?

@romenpheonixx7005 9 лет назад

That was beautiful! How would I know what to put in my room?

@EthanWiner 9 лет назад

Romen Pheonixx Some of my other videos here on RU-vid are more direct with advice about what to put where:@watch?v=ZSX14geMw-c @watch?v=lbLVjHfHahg

@EthanWiner 14 лет назад

@michalczar7 That music is from a "music library CD" called Tension Realm, written by my friend Ed Dzubak. Google can find you Ed's web site. I also noticed a used copy for sale on Amazon.

@EthanWiner 14 лет назад

@AlexanderCollection People on a tight budget will always look for inexpensive ways to treat their room, and that's fine. It's the same with any other audio purchase, such as microphones and preamps and converters. Do you want good or do you want cheap?

@EthanWiner 13 лет назад

@genemz5 Those are Mackie HR824s, the original models, not the newer MK II type.

@EthanWiner 11 лет назад

RU-vid comments are not a good way to discuss acoustics. Do me a favor, please post in my Audio Expert forum linked above in this video's description, and I'll be glad to answer there.

@EthanWiner 14 лет назад

@PSYTRACKED I think it comes to about $12,000, though I forget the exact amount. Of course, you don't need that much treatment to make a very large improvement in a room that size!

@govindadoyle4166 10 лет назад

I love you ethan Winer! Great Video!

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

@graphite412 Brian's room has no EQ in the monitor chain as far as I know. There are two articles on the RealTraps site about the futility of trying to solve room acoustics problems with EQ or other such products.

@kbjrecords7010 8 лет назад

Excellent work on this video. You got skills. Let me know when you upload new vids, maybe we can help somehow.

@EthanWiner 8 лет назад

If you Subscribe to my videos I believe you'll be notified whenever I upload a new one.

@hickerydickerydoe 13 лет назад

@EthanWiner Oh wow! Freeware? That's awesome. I thought I was going to have to spend 100 or so dollars. Thank you so much!

@StillLearning1000 13 лет назад

@EthanWiner The relative reduction was clearly apparent. The only reason I asked was because people that I've spoken to say they use monitors in their studio because they can hear things better, but that they would not use the monitors for home stereo. It's contra-intuitive to me. Anyway, thanks. This video is a good demo!

@EthanWiner 11 лет назад

The measuring microphone is a DPA 4090.

@EthanWiner 15 лет назад

Curtains and sofas do not absorb a useful amount at low frequencies. This is a common misconception, easily proven using room measuring software as shown in this video. You are correct that performance venues don't have extensive acoustic treatment, but the good ones definitely address acoustic problems. A large room is very different than a bedroom. Small rooms have more problems, especially in the bass range.

@EthanWiner 11 лет назад

That's a cut off the CD titled Tension Realm produced by my friend Ed Dzubak. This CD is "stock library music" sold to TV stations etc, so it may not be available commercially. RU-vid doesn't allow links in comments, but you can figure it out from this: shazam dot com/music/web/album?id=20010206

@davidf5501 11 лет назад

Thanks for the info. Has anyone mention that you sound a little like Charles Bronson?

@alexovercast3359 3 года назад

"And now I'm going to Emmett's fix it shop to fix Emmett."

@velierisim 3 года назад

Very informative! thanks.

@PauloFernandi 10 лет назад

Thank you very much !!!

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

@graphite412 Yes, with enough treatment you can do real work in a small room. But the smaller the room, the more treatment you need. Your questions are the right ones, but the answers are more elusive. It's a matter of how good you want versus how much you can invest. 1,000 cubic feet is pushing it, but 2,000 is definitely in range for great results given enough treatment. The room in this video is about 1,500 cubic feet, and Brian Lucey's room I mentioned is only 2,065 cubic feet.

@Vault_Tek_Industries 3 года назад

Thank you!

@NepticFathers 12 лет назад

@EthanWiner Awesome! So it is possible to do mastering in a smaller room if there is the right sound trapping and diffusion coupled with the right equipment? What room dimensions in cubit foot would you say is the smallest space that could be tolerable or accurate, after treatment, with the right dimension ratios, for a mastering situation? 1,000 cu ft? 3,400 cu ft? 8,000 cu ft? Maybe these aren't even the right questions... Thanks for the answers so far though!

@DebutanteMassacre 11 лет назад

I assume this set up is very expensive.

@hickerydickerydoe 13 лет назад

Hi, What software did you use to generate all of the graphs shown in the video? Thanks heaps :)

@deliciousjammusic 13 лет назад

@hardstyle905 Steve's Boogie by Eric Johnson. They also play Trademark by Eric Johnson at 6:38

@EthanWiner 13 лет назад

@StillLearning1000 If you think about it, the goals when listening to music for fun and for work are the same: Flat response and low distortion. So I disagree that different types of speakers are needed or useful. If you're ever in my neighborhood, you're welcome to visit and listen.

@dirtkeepsthefunk 12 лет назад

Agreed. What a marked difference!

@TomMilleyMusic 11 лет назад

i like that you like eric johnson.

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

Probably not - such a trap would need to be very large, which wouldn't leave enough room for traps that target all the other bass frequencies.

@jarekstepniak 7 лет назад

nice video

@AlexanderCollection 14 лет назад

Sounds good, but for $12000 it better had!! Considering this is a small bedroom sized room too. Don't think many bedroom producers will budget for this. Wonder how much a decent sized studio would cost?? Think i'll continue building my own until I strike my first deal then ill be in touch (+: Great work though!!

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

@EthanWiner @davidaliperti I honestly don't know what to tell you. You should ask in the tech support forum for REW at the Home Theater Shack web site.

@takyuen87 10 лет назад

I like your experiment! Very good! By the way, what is the music from 6:39 - 6:53?

@EthanWiner 10 лет назад

Tak-yuen Chan That music is from a CD by guitarist Eric Johnson, the track is called Trademark.

@EthanWiner 14 лет назад

@hardstyle905 That's Steve's Boogie by Eric Johnson.

@bryanturner9523 4 года назад

Night and day difference amazing traps

@RuiSilvaPT 12 лет назад

Wanna make a cheap trap? Fill the room with things! Lots of irregular shapes, Paintings/Frames on the walls.... Of course that empty room sounded bad, All the sound waves bounced back and forth with no opposition to them. I know you were just showing differences but you should show the difference between (empty/typical/RealTraps). If you have a small budget (like me), just don't leave the room empty, More things in the room, the merrier! (just don't put rattling things or you'll regret it!) :P

@MusicallyG 14 лет назад

It is possible to get quality stuff for prices that won't break the bank.. informing video

@NepticFathers 12 лет назад

@EthanWiner That is awesome to hear. Was Brian Lucey's room only treated with traps and diffusiors and the type of treatment used in the video? Was there something similar to krk's ergo or software correction also set up to get a little better reduction of the peaks of room modes? Have you used any of these type of products? I know they do a couple different things like time domain correction, which I haven't really studied yet. Do you have any comments on these type of systems?

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

@davidaliperti I use the Room EQ Wizard software, which is freeware and excellent. Go to the RealTraps web site's Articles page, and there's a complete tutorial. It's called the Room Measuring Primer.

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

All of your questions are answered on the RealTraps web site.

@EthanWiner 12 лет назад

@graphite412 A 10 dB span is about as good as possible in a small room like this. Yes, with even more bass traps it could be improved. But compared to Before it's a night and day difference. Practical consideration limit what's possible. This is why we played recorded music Before and After, so people can judge for themselves. Brian Lucey at Magic Garden Mastering has this same system of absorbers and diffusers, and he mastered The Black Keys "Brothers" which won 3 Grammys.

@EthanWiner 13 лет назад

@hickerydickerydoe That's Room EQ Wizard, and it's freeware.

@amaurythewarrior 12 лет назад

we can only hope that quality absorption and diffusion becomes more affordable as the internet helps musician realize they need it badly. until then, we at least have DIY !

@nekromachine 11 лет назад

And to know that so called 'audiophiles' drop more than $14,000 on basic cable alone without any clue as to what/where their listening experience could be and should be easily attained with that sort of money to spend. Never fails to amuse me the snake oil they are sold and worse still they buy into Ethan, I'm certain you've seen them all (magic pebbles, dots to place on the wall...etc.). If I had the money treatment proper would be the first thing I would spend on. Great demonstration, Cheers

@EthanWiner 11 лет назад

The door is in the front left of the room.

@Chadfish 15 лет назад

Wow! There's a giant difference. No imagine if you were playing 24 bit files, how much better it would sound! Just kidding Ethan. Awesome gear man.

@Hexspa 8 лет назад

But what kind of cables did you use?

@EthanWiner 8 лет назад

+Hexspa LOL, we used whatever we had laying around. You should ask this in the forum. :->)

@HomeGuitarMods 10 лет назад

Nice!

@cophnia61 12 лет назад

Subtle difference? You make a great improvement, I can hear it clealry with my ipod's earphones! Can I ask you how much I can spend approximately to do the same treatment in a room like that? (Excuse me for my bad english!)

@NepticFathers 12 лет назад

I've seen the graphs on the frequency response of the room, before and after the treatment was applied. It seemed as if you had about 10 dB of swing from the dips to the peaks in the low end. Would you say that this is what should be expected? Also how about the decay times for the modal ringing? What is their ideal length? I know having a larger room would help out, but I'm wondering what sort of swing and decay would be tolerable for a mastering environment.

@EthanWiner 14 лет назад

@nu77yworld How much absorption you put on the walls depends on a lot of factors including the size of the room. This is a terrible venue for Q&A, so if you have questions, please ask in whatever audio forum you know me from.

@57ashdot 6 лет назад

This guy's voice sounds like he should be narrating an old school detective movie lol

@rhdtv2002 4 года назад

Ethan has been doing this a LONG time..heck if I am right he was discussing on forums like Hometheaterspotz AVScience and older HT sites frommlong ago

@EthanWiner 4 года назад

Thanks Rich. Yes, I've been doing audio since the 1960s, and acoustics since the late 1970s. I've been online helping people since before the Internet, when CompuServe's MIDI forum was the main gathering place for computer musicians.