Most electrical inspectors like to have the lightning arrester close to the device that it is protecting (in our case, the hotspot/miner) or at the point in which the COAX enters the structure. In cases where the butt end of the antenna is relatively close to where COAX enters the structure, within a few inches for example, we can attach the COAX directly to the butt end of the antenna and run the ground wire from that point down to the electrical system ground wires. You would also pull a ground wire from the mast in the same location. Remember the COAX ground (the wire that comes out of the arrester), should be 10 AWG or thicker (solid or stranded), and the mast ground should be 17 AWG or thicker (solid or stranded).
Loving the information in these videos. What is your experience with window pass-through cables? I found a 40cm LMR-100 pass-through from McGill Microwave. Planning on running LMR-400 from antenna to lightning arrester, N-type to SMA female adaptor, window pass-through, then miner (indoors). Trying to minimize the footprint.
Thanks for the great video series! Very clear and concise. I have a question. Could I hook my lightning arrester directly up to the bottom of the antenna and then plug my cable into that in order to only use one cable instead of two? This would cut down on two connection points since I am eliminating both cable ends, which could then limit the loss of dB. Also, I could save money by not having to buy two cables
You can do that for sure however it depends on your layout. I've cut and paste this from another comment... Most electrical inspectors like to have the lightning arrester close to the device that it is protecting (in our case, the hotspot/miner) or at the point in which the COAX enters the structure. In cases where the butt end of the antenna is relatively close to where COAX enters the structure, within a few inches for example, we can attach the arrester directly to the butt end of the antenna. This allows us to run COAX right into the structure right below the antenna and run the ground wire from the arrester down to the electrical system ground wires/rod. You would also pull a ground wire from the mast in the same location. The scenario allows us to only purchase one piece of COAX. Remember the COAX ground (the wire that comes out of the arrester), should be 10 AWG or thicker (solid or stranded), and the mast ground should be 17 AWG or thicker (solid or stranded). In other situations where our antenna is much further away from the COAX entry point, like on a tall mast on the roof or just much further away from where the COAX enters the structure, we would not want to attach the arrester to the butt end of the antenna. Instead we would run a piece of COAX from the butt end of the antenna to where the COAX would enter the structure and attach the arrester either outside the structure at that point with ah drip loop or locate the arrester inside the structure (like our blue series). Then attach a second piece of COAX on the other side of the arrester that attaches to the helium hotspot/miner.
@@on-chain.nation do you know WHY that setup is preferred on a long run by any chance, vs. just leaving it attached to the antenna butt? To save from buying 2 cables. Any increased risk/benefit to the miner, or just "code"?
Most electrical inspectors like to have the lightning arrester close to the device that it is protecting (in our case, the hotspot/miner) or at the point in which the COAX enters the structure. In cases where the butt end of the antenna is relatively close to where COAX enters the structure, within a few inches for example, we can attach the arrester directly to the butt end of the antenna. This allows us to run COAX right into the structure right below the antenna and run the ground wire from the arrester down to the electrical system ground wires/rod. You would also pull a ground wire from the mast in the same location. The scenario allows us to only purchase one piece of COAX. Remember the COAX ground (the wire that comes out of the arrester), should be 10 AWG or thicker (solid or stranded), and the mast ground should be 17 AWG or thicker (solid or stranded). In other situations where our antenna is much further away from the COAX entry point, like on a tall mast on the roof or just much further away from where the COAX enters the structure, we would not want to attach the arrester to the butt end of the antenna. Instead we would run a piece of COAX from the butt end of the antenna to where the COAX would enter the structure and attach the arrester either outside the structure at that point with ah drip loop or locate the arrester inside the structure (like our blue series). Then attach a second piece of COAX on the other side of the arrester that attaches to the helium hotspot/miner.
Thanks for the video. Question: You reference how much signal loss there is with coax lengths, but how much dbi signal loss is there at each connection (antenna/coax/lightning arrestor/coax/miner)?
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Nice Video!! Two quick questions. Is it possible to install the app on multiple phones and control the same miners? Also, is it possible to have the bobcat start sync'ing to the block chain before entering the location data (like if you're trying to presync on ethernet, then move it to a different location on slower wifi)?
You can install the app on multiple phones for the same wallet. I have it on my android phone, android tablet and an iPhone just in case there is a problem with the app. And miners start syncing the moment they are connected to the internet. They do not even need to be onboarded before they start to sync. And they can get to be fully synced before you ever onboard them or set the location.
Really good video, Just a quick question. why can't you run your coax directly to the antenna from the bobcat miner? with a female to female lighting arrester??
Sure, you can use whatever type of arrester you need depending on what is available. We usually get our arresters first and then pick the COAX connection types. Some of this also depends on where the COAX enters the structure.
@@on-chain.nation thanks for the quick reply, do you need a lighting arrester when connecting the antenna to the roof or can you just connect the miner directly to the antenna?
Hi thanks for the videos When you are placing the antenna in a new business or home do you FIRST go to the house first to measure how much LMR Wire length you will need or do you just estimate ? 2. So I am assuming for each home you place it in you have to make TWO purchases of LMR wires ? Is this correct?
Yes, you should measure for the LMR and usually, if your antenna is mounted outside it will need to be grounded and most of the time you will need to locate the arrester in a spot that will require you to get two pieces of COAX. But not always: Most electrical inspectors like to have the lightning arrester close to the device that it is protecting (in our case, the hotspot/miner) or at the point in which the COAX enters the structure. In cases where the butt end of the antenna is relatively close to where COAX enters the structure, within a few inches for example, we can attach the arrester directly to the butt end of the antenna. This allows us to run COAX right into the structure right below the antenna and run the ground wire from the arrester down to the electrical system ground wires/rod. You would also pull a ground wire from the mast in the same location. The scenario allows us to only purchase one piece of COAX. Remember the COAX ground (the wire that comes out of the arrester), should be 10 AWG or thicker (solid or stranded), and the mast ground should be 17 AWG or thicker (solid or stranded). In other situations where our antenna is much further away from the COAX entry point, like on a tall mast on the roof or just much further away from where the COAX enters the structure, we would not want to attach the arrester to the butt end of the antenna. Instead we would run a piece of COAX from the butt end of the antenna to where the COAX would enter the structure and attach the arrester either outside the structure at that point with ah drip loop or locate the arrester inside the structure (like our blue series). Then attach a second piece of COAX on the other side of the arrester that attaches to the helium hotspot/miner.
Would it be safe to attach the lightning arrester directly to the miner instead of using 2 runs of cable? For example, by attaching an RP-SMA male to N-Female adapter directly to the miner's output? This would be for an outdoor installation with a 30 foot fiberglass mast.
No, I would not suggest attaching the arrester directly to the miner. The arrester body is likely too heavy for the connection on the miner and might damage it. The best method is to locate the arrester at the location where the COAX enters the building, on the outside of the building. I've done this many different ways including having the arrester attached to an inside wall ( see video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-L_iRaIlSTKg.html ). Good Luck!
Thanks. One question: could you also connect the arrestor straight into the antenna, thus only needing one cable, and reducing losses through fewer connections, therefore?
Agreed, good feedback, the only case where the arrester is connected directly to the bottom of the antenna is with an application where the entry point to the building is only a few inches away from the bottom of the antenna, then it would not make sense to have a little tiny jumper.
@@on-chain.nation The first video of yours that I watched on antennas (easy as 1-2-3) a few months ago, you did the arrestor straight into the antenna. I had gotten the same setup with LMR-400 cables accordingly. Now I'm kinda bummed because I feel I need to modify my setup to fit the new quota you describe in this video. Can I cost affectively do this without much hassle? I have the LMR-400 going straight from the miner into a female to female lightning arrestor which is directly connected to the antenna.
What is the point of the power outlet board that supplies 13-14 hours of power to miner if power goes out???? If power goes out wouldn’t the Ethernet gateway power go out and thus lose your internet connection?? What good is having the miner powered on, without an connection?? Hope to hear a response, if you have figured out how to keep the gateway powered on and internet running I would love to hear it. Just subscribed, thanks for videos.
@@on-chain.nation I’m not sure what that is, but that is freakin sweet of it keeps your internet connection going when power goes out!!! I want to learn more!
Any issues with using different LMR types in the same run? Thinking 400 for 50ft span to antenna to arrestor and 240 for more from arrestor to hotspot for flexibility through wall. Would VSWR be an issue?
Do the connectors and adapters for the LMR400 cable have to be specially made for that kind of cable in order to keep the loss at the minimum? Regardless of the type of connector (SMA, N-Type, RP-SMA, etc) I see many kinds, colors (material?) and prices in the market such as Aliexpress, Amazon, and in my local stores, so not sure which to choose.
@@on-chain.nation Too late. I bought 40m of LMR400 coax and a crimper tool. Just need to find the right connectors and heat shrink tubes, so I need to know if they should be special or just regular connectors for this kind of coaxial cable.
@@marcoarancibia5756 You might try and contact MPD digital to purchase the correct connections: 1-888-624-0480 or contact them via. contact form: usacoax.com/contact Don't forget to use discount code HSTREET
No, it does not work that way anymore. If you get into the deep details of the recent PoC HIP's (Proof of Coverage - Helium Improvement Proposals), You will find a table that shows the ratio between antenna strength and distance. Without getting too far into it, you want to use the smallest antenna possible to achieve your goals without exceeding the your region's dBi max limits. For example... in locations where I was using the 8 dBi, I now have much better success with 3 and 5 dBi antennas. Rural areas with trees and rolling hills. For higher elevation locations, 50~80 ft ham radio towers, really tall buildings trying to reach the other side of town or the next town, I'd still try the 8 dBi first. For most in-town units, I'd go with 3 or 5.8. [AS OF TODAY] ... things change, so budget accordingly.
This feels like a dumb question, but I’ll ask it anyway. Would it be ok to use 30ft of LMR-400 from antenna to arrester and then 10ft LMR-240 from arrester to miner, or should I go with the same type of cable on both sides of arrester?
I thought about this more overnight. I have actually done this before and didn't realize it, it worked fine. It was with the jumper wire that comes with RAK antennas. If you already have the COAX in your possession, just try it out and see how it works. if you still need to order the COAX from MPD Digital, I'd just get the same type. Good Luck!
Great info ! Much Appreciated. Do you know if there is a LMR 400 with a similar cross section like the CAT 8 Ethernet cable? I am trying to get the cable from the roof through the window..
I think you might be talking about a flat cable. I'm not aware of a flat COAX. Depending on your application you might find that LMR240 works for your distance
It's a bit of a long winded explanation... Most electrical inspectors like to have the lightning arrester close to the device that it is protecting (in our case, the hotspot/miner) or at the point in which the COAX enters the structure. In cases where the butt end of the antenna is relatively close to where COAX enters the structure, within a few inches for example, we can attach the arrester directly to the butt end of the antenna. This allows us to run COAX right into the structure right below the antenna and run the ground wire from the arrester down to the electrical system ground wires/rod. You would also pull a ground wire from the mast in the same location. The scenario allows us to only purchase one piece of COAX. Remember the COAX ground (the wire that comes out of the arrester), should be 10 AWG or thicker (solid or stranded), and the mast ground should be 17 AWG or thicker (solid or stranded). In other situations where our antenna is much further away from the COAX entry point, like on a tall mast on the roof or just much further away from where the COAX enters the structure, we would not want to attach the arrester to the butt end of the antenna. Instead we would run a piece of COAX from the butt end of the antenna to where the COAX would enter the structure and attach the arrester either outside the structure at that point with ah drip loop or locate the arrester inside the structure (like our blue series). Then attach a second piece of COAX on the other side of the arrester that attaches to the helium hotspot/miner.
Great Question! Here is the breakdown of 240 vs. 400 vs. 600 (20ft. length of cable with N-Type connectors): LMR240 has -1.7 dB of loss for about $30 LMR400 has -0.9 dB of loss for about $40 LMR600 has -0.6 dB of loss for about $67 Only in cases where you are really pushing the limits of COAX length will it be a factor where you will need to consider LMR600.
Rule of thumb is: Use LMR240 up to 25 ft. (7.6 meters). Use LMR400 up to 100ft. (30.4 meters) I'm not sure if I see any applications that would use LMR600. Check out the signal loss calculator, link at the bottom of heliumstreet.com.
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Hi, thanks for the feedback. The lightning arrester is required for outside antenna installations, per NEC (National Electric Code) guidelines, similar to the ground "block" that you would see for a satellite dish installation.
Hi, thanks for the feedback. The lightning arrester is required for outside antenna installation per NEC (National Electrical Code). If you would like more information about this, it might be good to contact your local electrical inspector.
I have seen some install a pole next to the antenna, that reaches higher than the antenna itself, thus encouraging the lightning to strike the pole instead of the antenna itself. Obviously both the pole and antenna need proper grounding.
