When the two anti-villains meet! Loved the "I can't make him louder!" from Cleo's perspective... Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm loving the interaction! Beef's being polite about it, but after X's post today, this is about to go viral! Brace yourselves!
@@docm77 I don't comment often, because I'm usually watching on my ROKU TV. But, I have to say I'm really enjoying these extra videos of the TCG matches. The game itself is quite interesting, while the interactions between everyone are so much fun. Thank you. 🤠👍
A lot of the rules were made or suggested by cleo, she and joe came up with pack sizes, she had more experience with the game before launch than anyone except beef or joe. No wonder her deck is so goos
Cleo used to be a school teacher. I'm sure she has involuntarily overheard more TCG strategy conversations than should be considered safe for a human being's sanity. I'm not sure the HiveMind is fast enough to catch up to years of homeroom / registration period. 🤣
As a 20-year card game veteran, Mumbo is far from broken. He is one of the most powerful aggressive cards, yes, but he is not broken. Ultimately, Mumbo is just a beatstick. He hits very hard, but that's all he does. Part of the reason people are struggling with him right now is because it's very easy to put together a good attacking deck and very hard to put together a synergy/control deck. Control strategies require more high-rarity cards, and require a lot of skill to pilot effectively. Once the metagame evolves to the point where control is an option, I expect Mumbo to fall off a bit. Almost certainly still a threat, but much less scary than he seems at current time. Think about a card like Knockback in the context of this deck. Online Mumbo/AFK Stress is not an uncommon board state for the Prankster deck. If you Knockback the mumbo and force out the stress, what happens? Stress is an awful attacker and you only want her special move on your own terms. So you have to send her AFK to swap Mumbo back in. You got to attack, and you forced the aggressive deck to skip their attack. If you do this while using a card that has a value effect (like Rare TFC or Rare Keralis), or a card that lets you break the rules (Rare Gem, Rare Joe) you are pulling ahead while preventing the aggressive deck from being able to beat you down. Then consider cards like Rare Tango and Rare Jevin, who can spam attacks while constantly knocking Mumbo out of the lead position, severely damaging his ability to consistently attack. Because Mumbo Is just a beater and doesn't generate resources, Totem of Undying essentially causes Mumbo's attack to go to waste. These are all considerations. Another thing to consider is "soft KO's". If the Prankster player is using a second Player type (like builder or speedrunner), what happens if you Lead one of their item types on to a Stressmonster or Grian? Both require exactly 3 Prank items to do their second attack. If you Lead a different type of energy on to them, they become essentially useless until the Prankster player finds a 2x Obsidian to put on them. However, the Prank player would really prefer to be putting their 2x Obsidian on Mumbo. In this game there are 4 things you can do every single turn: Play an effect, play an item, play hermits and attack. Once the dust is settled and people understand the game better, they will realize that the best decks are the ones that maximize the number of those 4 things they do every single turn. The only way to make that happen is slowing the aggressive decks down with interruption cards like Lead, Totem of Undying and Knockback and drawing extra cards with things like TFC, Fishing Rod and Chest. If you do those things while constantly laying down damage, Mumbo looks considerably less scary. TLDR: Prankster deck has a lot of exploitable weaknesses that folks will take advantage of once the meta settles in and people acquire more cards.
What's your opinion on Ultra Rare Beef, Etho, and TFC. To me, beef is the weakest. He likes a weaker version of Exodia. You need 4 different cards and 3 energy of his type of him to even activate his ability. He gets hard countered by lead, a very common disruptive card. Also there are cards that have forced him to go. Even with efficiency, a rare card, Beef's usual max damage is 100.
Dude, it is still 150 damage on average, that's what wels does at 90 hp or less and you need 3 item cards. I don't think its fair to require your oponent to predict you and waste effects when all you need to do is spam mumbo. Not to mention, what about your own effects? Isn't clock still a thing? And there is also fortune, so it's 240 damage for sure
Mmhmm, in that sense games are much better than school, you're taught that losing is only a minor inconvenience, or barely one at all. Sure it might be frustrating, but that's pretty much the worst of it really. In school you're taught to fear failure as that would result in not getting the bit of paper that tells you that you learnt what the school wanted to teach you.
If we assume that in 50% of cases of Mumbos "Quite simple" attack the player has another prankster afk (which is probably on the low side, considering deck building) the average damage of Mumbo is 115 HP. If we assume 75% it is 132.5 HP. With 100% it would be 150 HP straight. I'd say he is quite strong.
@@venator4838 if you watch beef's episodes where he revealed mumbo's special move, his intent was either flip twice plus 40 damage for each or heads OR if u have a prankster afk, than it just doubles. I have absolutely no idea how the wording implies that, but that's what he intended. And anyways, being able to do 240 damage at all is broken
*color screwed. That's what happens without dual lands and all mono color double cost cards. I think he should run like 20 items for this deck and maybe run some hermits with 3-cost moves where the third is a blank item that can be either (if they exist and are actually better than the 2-cost hermits)
@@Lightning_Lance Thing is this game is in the style of Pokemon, not MTG. So applying MTG lands logic to Pokemon is a bad idea. The fact that lands are locked to hermits, (so when a hermit dies you effectively experience Land destruction) and that duels don't exist BUT your lands are likewise useless without hermits (So Mana flooding is also much easier and much more deadly then in magic) means just reducing the cost of hermit attacks isn't the correct answer. In MTG, a free "Discard your hand and draw 7" that anyone can run would be broken. In Pokémon its called "professors Research" and is in all but the lowest curve decks. Those low curve decks ususally run things that draw 4-5 cards instead. The fact is, as much as I love this game, Beef REALLY should have included better draw cards in this game. This is not MtG, and Ren's concern about their power is misplaced. Its how games in pokemon eliminate being energy screwed.
TFC is such a monster hermit. High HP, High Damage, and great abilities. All three of them are really good, especially TFC because of the draw flip ability. Miners just also happen to be the best offensive type in the game. It's strong against redstone and prankster, at least top 3 most popular types.
@@docm77, I also love your content, you're one of my favourite hermits (together with Joe). And just to point out, the fishing rod draws 2 cards, not 3.
Doc there should be also a rule that you cant hide single use card to discard pile before you finish your round (press the button), this way you wont use single use card twice.
Doc should build a mono deck around Mumbo, he is definetely broken. In a mono deck you are most likely to get 2 hermits first turn, while also being able to draw 2 items easily, as there is only one type. That will guarantee like 160 damage average per turn. It's really broken.
Doc. Thank you for everything you ve contributed to minecraft . Your ideas and extra ordinary game play has shown alot of us there really are no boundaries of what's possible. You are definitely an inspiration
It's funny that Cleo's live chat is trying to dictate they need a third-party judge when they all are literally the judge and the players on this service are gentlemen and gentlewomen. They are friends and aren't going to cheat on purpose, even if they're not game masters.
Probably either because Doc wasn't showing his single-use cards, or because he was drawing 3 cards with the fishing rod. They were friendly matches, where they were playing 2-and-2, so no biggie.
@@one_hoop I know everyone is honest of Hermit Craft(proven by Mumbo mystery diamond gift ), but playing a competitive game and in the zone, you tend to make illegal moves sometimes. A famous example is Hikaru, a GM making an illegal move in chess. You would think someone who quite literally "mastered" chess would never make these mistakes, but it happens sometimes.
I just calculated Mumbos average damage: If you have another prankster on the field he should deal an average damage of 150 per round. That is fairly strong but not broken. Calculation: 40*0.25+160*0.5+240*0.25 = 150 if you roll no extra damage the damage does not get doubled so the minimum damage is 40 with a 1/4 chance. One head equates to 80 base damage doubled to 160 with a 2/4 chance Last 2 heads equals 240 damage with again a 1/4th chance. (Pls let me know if I made a mistake)
If you compare that to wels special move, he also does 150 damage but only when he is low health, and his move requires 3 item cards, so I would say mumbo is indeed op. I also think it's frustrating for both players that his damage can vary so much
with a netherite sword or tnt, you can 1-shot any opposing hermit that has no armor and is on full health 1/4 of the time. That seems kind of broken, especially since you can power him up full in 1 move with a 2x item.
@@jausaramvilsu Mumbo also requires 3 cards, 2 Items and another prankster. Also, I believe that random based moves are usually a bit stronger than predictable moves.
@@op-physics dude, if you run only pranksters, that last condition may as well not exist Also you can play as many hermits as you want on a single turn
Doc @22:00 you used fishing rod, but then played hermits. Yes those hermits were legal plays but ONLY before the fishing rod, fishing rod constitutes attack phase . Also negating the netherite sword as you used two single use on 1 phase. I see you caught the sword a minute later, but you can't place those hermits technically either as Cleo has no way to verify they were in your deck prior to the fishing rod
I am still waiting for some hermit to do a yugioh style edit of one of these matches, with super closeups and ridiculous animations, but that’s probably a little bit too much to ask for 😅 thanks doc for uploading these I love this mini side series!
I think you may need to play more than 16 item (resource) cards in a hybrid deck. Since this game doesn't have the equivalent of dual lands, 2 hermit types is already kind of stretching your mana base. And you play a lot of hermits with double costed abilities of a single type, and unlike in magic you have to actually attach the resource cards per hermit, so you really have to draw exactly the right ones to play all that. Especially that Stress card requiring 3 prankster items seems really optimistic to play in a dual type deck (granted, she may be worth it; that ability can win the game). If you do add more item cards, I would also look to add 3-cost hermits where the third resource is a joker/blank one that can be either type, assuming those hermits are worth playing (because with more item cards in the deck, theoretically you can get away with higher cost hermits, just not higher *specific* cost hermits) Double item cards and card draw really help though. But yeah, the game needs some dual lands (probably bad ones that come in unusable the first turn; don't want to make it so good that people play 3-type decks)
Hey Doc, got a suggestion: I love these TCG matches as additional content, but frequently I'm listening to them while I do other things and not necessarily watching everything happen as it goes. It would be very helpful to me if players were to narrate what's going on in the match with a little bit more clarity. For instance: Often when a game ends one of the players will say "and that's GG". Simple enough, but if I'm not completely paying attention during the match I may not even know who won. So for instance at 18:40 - you attack Cleo, then ask her if she has a double item card. She says yes, and so you say "that's GG then". Of course the game is effectively over because the score is 2-1 in Cleo's favor and prankster Stress is her active hermit and a double item card on Stress would allow her to use the YOLO attack, making the score 3-2, and a win for Cleo. But it's hard to get all that just from listening. It's even hard to get that from watching, because the scoreboard isn't always visible to us. A bit more explanation would help to make things like this clear.
Fishing Rod is Ultra Rare (and actually is only supposed to give 2 cards), so Flint and Steel's are far more common. There are very few Fishing Rods in circulation.
In the item description for the fishing rod, it says to take two items, but Doc took three when he played it. Was this a mistake or am I reading the card wrong?
Mumbo isn’t broken because it is conditional on dependent on having three other cards and has an weighted average in the best circumstances of 150. That is good, but it isn’t broken. It is strictly better than Doc’s World Eater, but more conditional.
I think the main balancing issue with Mumbo is that the attack only requires two items - other attacks that can do that much damage require three. Perhaps an adjustment could be that having two items lets you flip one coin, but you need three items attached to flip both coins. ‘Quite Simple’, really.
If we assume that in 50% of cases of Mumbos "Quite simple" attack the player has another prankster afk (which is probably on the low side, considering deck building) the average damage of Mumbo is 115 HP. If we assume 75% it is 132.5 HP. With 100% it would be 150 HP straight. I'd say he is quite strong.
At 16:00 u could have chosen an prankster item and attack with mumbo using his special attack that also would have double and use clock as well, taking out stress
Really love this content tho know it must be rly hard to try to find the time for regular hermit craft with all the father stuff because family always comes first so rly appreciate what u do manage to pump out for us
Seeing Doc how he is planing and theorizing what deck will be the best and when he makes the most OP deck.. He gets unlucky with a draw... Daaamm man I know that feeling I make OP deck in Pokémon Online with Zedaph kind of cards meeens that I make a deck almoat only for Attacking AFK pokemons but with extra cost of energy per turn and noo energy card or good aupport card rolling in... Unfortunatly I know that feeling
Mumbo Expected damage Without afk prankster: 40(0.25) + 80(0.5) + 120(0.25) = 80 With afk prankster: 40(0.25) + 160(0.5) + 240(0.25)=150 Rare impulse can do 150 if there are 2 afk boomers Ultra rare vintage beef can do 200 with doc, bdubs, and etho afk. Rare welsknight can do 150 if he's in red life Mumbo isn't the only one that can do a lot of damage, not even the most damage. He can get that much damage easier than other hermits. He's only overpowered because your Deck doesn't have to be as specialized to access the high attack power.
I think I'm misunderstanding some rules. I thought quite simple doubles the total damage. When I calculate total damage I include item damage so cleo should have done more damage. Does this mean the total damage isn't actually total damage but the total damage before calculating item damage? I thought the special ability of the card is calculated last. Does this mean special ability is calculated before adding item effects?
Beef has the most popular shop in Hermitcraft history. Beef is the poorest hermit because he went with a token system instead of a token + diamond plan. He should have made “official matches” cost two or four diamond blocks to play to earn tokens.
I have planed a lot and prankster deck is op. Because Mumbo and Grian cause SO much damage and Stress Yolo You out from dificult situacions. I thins is best a full prankster deck than a minor one
@Doc can you please check the randomizers in the arena? Does each card have equal probability or does it lower the probability of stacked cards? If you have stacked item cards and randomizer is not proper, there is a good chance the probability for it is lower.
In X's video he showed the randomizer he used for this arena used hopper minecarts in an attempt to fix the stacked cards issue. I don't know about the other arenas that are being made though, they should probably decide on randomiser for all arena's to use so it is more fair
Mumbo with another prankster onboard does an average of 150 damage >.< thats a two turn kill like aaaa. And that means you don't need damage effect cards so you can focus on all the other good effects.
every hermit seems to always end up short on hermits, items, or both. seems pretty obvious that yall need to play fewer effects after looking at the probabilities, I'd play minimum 10 hermits
Getting all double items would help. Then you would be less likely to not get enough items to use the attacks. Conclusion. Use all your remaining tokens on item packs
I think an acceptable nerf to Mumbo could be instead of doubling total damage, there could be +40 dmg for every afk prankster-type hermit in play if at least one heads is rolled. You need 3 AFK hermits to have the doubling effect, but on the other hand you can go even higher if you play right.
That said. More fun effect IMO would be changing everything to: flip a coin for every AFK prankster-type in play (including enemy's) and - if heads - add +60-80 (tbd) to total damage.
That would've been his third hermit out, which would've caused him to lose. If you have 3 of your hermits out you lose. The right play there probably have just been spamming clock and attaching some prankster items to mumbo and attacking, and hoping the damage kills Stress
