Hidden Cup 4 | 2nd Semi Final (Best of 7) 

LOL and on his ride home, he got shot down by a new castle that just appeared within minutes

Hahaha

The romans almost worshipped gease because a goose was the only one who gave the alarm when Rome was attacked in an ancient battle, the guards and their dogs were sleeping, the romans were so crazy that they literally murdered a dog every single year for centuries to "punish" the dogs that had failed to alert them to the intruder, "the supplice of the cannine" in ancient rome, look it up

@@anonymous-rb2sr yeah, so that, all those dogs could tell their grandkids n their grandkid’s to never fail the Romans again

@@Spectraevil Hey, don't ask me WHY they were doing it en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplicia_canum for those who thought I was making it up ^^^^^^

Glad I'm not the only one who found that sentence funny, lol.

Skill-wise yes. I gotta say the Macro-Wars between Yo and Jordan were insanely fun to watch tho.

I’ve watched it three times. If John was playing anyone else he wins that game 2. The pressure Ivaylo put in John’s Eco while dealing with relentless pressure on his own eco was legendary.

Truly legendary! :D

I remember the empty shock in T90's voice at the end of game 7.

Thanks for the spoiler dickhead. If this was the true final that means John must have won the whole thing.

I concur, exceptional gameplay throughout 👌

@@jeroen92 not necessarily, both sets of semis were far more exciting than the finals. Also the comments of a video like this isn't a safe place to look if you don't want spoilers. Incidentally you can watch the recorded finals on T90's twitch page, and could have done so for a while now, so you don't have to wait for him to post it here. I watched 2 games in the finals and didn't bother with the rest, both semis were far more exciting. The second game of the finals was almost a low elo legends game 😆

I was waiting for this one.

The skill level these guys brought to the table is just incredible.

It’s close. This one just beats out Le Loi vs John The Fearless. If that went 7 games it might rival this.

The differences in playstyle make this so unpredictable as well sometimes. Game 2 is probably my favorite as I really thought after the first defense that John would have it. Skirms against mangonels, low numbers, win the engagement... What?

love your hair

Daut Won, Barles at second

T90 won, Hera at second.

As a viper fan, this one hurt... Which is a shame because these were top quality games that I'd otherwise love to rewatch. Congratulations to Hera.

The hype is real. This was the real final match

I was so expecting an Ivaylo 4-2 win when I saw the timestamp at the start of game 6. When T90 predicted a game 7 with 15 minutes left on the video I said, "no way". I was wrong. Amazing set.

ty for the spoiler XD

You are obviously right

@@NalinX Daut is obviously right, Yo is clearly left

@@rbd6502 yeah Daut was right about that Yo left

Sundjata and John the Fearless are too also Daut. He's multiboxing 😎

These are the games you'll come back years from now, knowing the players behind the names and be able to appreciate it so much more.

@@Preacher_. exactly

@@Preacher_. here i am doing exactly that

Actually, yes. Who knows what would be if a certain player had gotten 2 more home maps with prepared strategies.

Exactly

They all knew the rules and the map distribution. Maybe John prepared accordingly.

Well, it may seem unfair, but it's really mostly random chance based on the layout (games 1, 4, and 7 are on set maps). John just happened to manage wins on games 3 and 6 when Ivaylo couldn't change the next map anyhow. Notice however that John only won 1/3 of his home maps any way. His most convincing victories were on Bypass and Mudflow.

@@LittleBigPeach Consider that Ivaylo won 100% of his home maps, meaning he did have something prepared for those maps. Had the order by which players have won their map been different, it is very possible that Ivaylo would have won the set (and most likely the tournament). Btw, john won 2/3 of his home maps (not 1/3) and was very close to winning all of his home maps, which makes a big difference. My point is that this format is highly subjected to chance and should be changed somehow, especially considering that this is the biggest AoE2 tournament of the every year.

It's pretty much a moot discussion. The worst offender is still first game arabia - ask any arena player. And that's a staple in most tournaments. In the end, the player with the better preparation and execution wins - especially on the new maps.

@@Link1506 All these maps are open, this tournament is not designed around arena players it is designed around maps with lots of action. Also, no cares that there were set maps, people care that Ivaylo only got 1 home map and had to play against 3 of John's home maps. If both players had only 2 picks and no matter the result of the 5th game the person who hadn't played 2 home maps yet got the map, then it would be fair because both players would always have 2 home maps and we could keep the interesting set maps as well.

@@Link1506 Arabia is fine. Its literally the most standard map and has been for almost 20 years, it makes sense to play at least 1 game there.

You mean all hybrid?

Yeah I felt the same for this situation, Hera getting 3 home maps while the snake only had one seems like something worth looking into.

not an issue, everyone keeps saying 3 home maps to 1 but out of those ivaylo won 2 and john won 2. What about the previous one of admiral vs sundjata where it was 2 home maps of sundjata to 1 of admiral and admiral won all of them. or even the grand final, john vs admiral, 2 home maps to 1 for admiral, but john won 2 of them anyway. The rules were completely clear and can go either way for either player, makes it all the more important to win the fixed maps that can get most practice on

@@anishnair1063 When I watched it live the set maps already seemed odd to me during the first semi final. It doesn't really matter who won these homemaps. As a player in a tournament you choose these homemaps because you feel more comfortable playing on it or you may have a strategy prepared. None of this implies that you will definetly win on that map. But it is to your disadvantage if your opponent can choose 3 times and you only once. It is not the biggest deal, Viper said he misread the rules (that's on him) and got frustrated (understandable). I think it may have gotten into his head, maybe should have had a quick break to refocus.

Yeah. Viper played worse in games 6 and 7. Almost as if he expected his home map to come up in game 6 and it threw him off. Hera played amazingly and won deservedly under these conditions, but if the home maps were fair maybe Viper would have played better in the last two matchups and he would have won deservedly.

I dunno. That islands match was hilariously fitting for an actual final. But yes, this was pretty crazy.

he was a player in the tournament

@ItsDexGaming Totally agree with you. It should have been a 4:0, even tho Hera lost the Islands game, he should technically have won. And its true, Viper was practically unbeaten for a decade (Yo being his weird nemesis), and I think it can only enhance the overall level of gameplay, that he now has someone who is able to really compete with him and make it a necessity to get better skill wise

I disagree my friend, it was notified in advance and u are suposed to prepare for these maps as well as for your home picks. I agree it was unfortunate for The Snake but it was no dumb luck. It was the agreed terms of HC4. And I am in favour of having one or two new maps being 'forced' in Bo7.

@@pianodentist6750 I don’t have a problem with having forced maps either. Just the way it was implemented. If you’re going to have forced maps then maybe they should all be stacked at the beginning, like Arabia has always been. So both players get to have a home map advantage every time they’re on the back foot after that. Or have a set comprised entirely of pre planned maps. Orrr have a pool of forced maps, and instead of Arabia being the first decider map for every match, it may be any of the forced maps from the pool as the first map of a set, and Arabia can be a home map pic for one of the players if they want it. I think I like this last idea the most if mixing in new maps is a goal of the tourney. Cause if you scatter them in the middle like this. Then you can be in a situation where one person loses and then gets a home map advantage, wins because that advantage, and then the loser who now should also be able to get to pick a home map doesn’t get that same advantage to try and make a comeback.

@@pianodentist6750 we’ve advanced to tourney maps with safe resources for both players for this same reason. Cause the level is so high that tiny advantages get majorly punished. You could pretty much predict who would win each round based on who’s resources were easier to protect. And I say those scripting changes made this tourney a realllllly good one. But then they threw another monkey wrench in the mix and made it so one person might lose two map pics in an off chance it went 7 rounds and the same person lost the match before the forced map pics. And that’s exactly what happened lol

It’s not a problem that the players couldn’t pick a couple of the maps. It’s a problem that one player was able to, and the other wasn’t.

@@JonathanMeyer84 but that is what happened. one player in this set got to pick three home maps and the other got only one.

It feels like there‘s always some room for discussion about who did or did not have an unfair advantage. I‘d rather wait for what the players themselves have to say and for now leave it at stating that I have no clue why there were set maps after Arabia.

@@btarczy5067 both players have made statements according to reddit that boil down to them not liking how that worked out and that it was unfair on both of them. The loser did not get a fair amount of home maps and the winner gets their victory questioned because of that rather than just being accepted although no one has blamed anyone for it as no one foresaw that the current rules could work out in that way.

@@lonerangerv1224 Thanks! Yeah, I think the fact this is a topic at all now is just frustrating because Hera is still a deserving winner despite the circumstances. Not that I can‘t see why it would be brought up! I‘m just annoyed about the possibly lingering implications that this was a tarnished victory when he played like an absolute beast.

@@btarczy5067 It is all just so messy for everyone involved. Not helped that some people have wanted to accuse anyone bring this issue up as just a fanboy wanting to find an excuse for why the person lost. Hopefully this is just a growing pain sort of thing and all sorted out for next time

The demos!

Tbf those rules were posted clearly ahead of time. They’re not ideal, but they were not ambiguous. I kind of think the main issue is set maps. I don’t think there should be set maps.

not an issue, everyone keeps saying 3 home maps to 1 but out of those ivaylo won 2 and john won 2. What about the previous one of admiral vs sundjata where it was 2 home maps of sundjata to 1 of admiral and admiral won all of them. The rules were completely clear and can go either way for either player, makes it all the more important to win the fixed maps that can get most practice on

or even the grand final, john vs admiral, 2 home maps to 1 for admiral, but john won 2 of them anyway

@@anishnair1063 Viper should have brought up the question of whether or not all 3 home maps will be played rather than assuming it would be 2 max for a player. That being said, home map advantages definitely matter and just because Viper won 1 of Hera's home maps doesn't mean home map advantages doesn't matter. His win on Quarry was a total civ win for Britons on that map and there was nothing Hera could have went for that would have counter it, if he had to play a different map do you really think it wouldn't matter? In hindsight Viper should have had his draft focused on the set maps more than the home maps but had he got to play his home maps, Viper was definitely favored in this series. Hera played very well to deserve this win and had the toughest bracket but to say home map advantage didn't matter is disingenuous

@@lamegamer4607 so he should have read the rules and drafted better duhh who doesnt understand the rules for a 80k tournament?? And several other tournaments you always see people asking if they can lame or not, these pro players should really put minimum effort in and read

Seems a bit strange to me as well. I think after Arabia it should just have been home maps. Doing it like this just opens discussion about the loser getting snubbed which is just unnecessary because the winner 100% deserves his spot in the final.

@@johnnyfulton4755 I just know that both players can choose four home maps out of the pool and ban one of the other player's picks. Usually the player who lost the last game can choose one of his home maps for the next one but in the semifinals for some reason the fourth and the seventh map were set so in this case the player who won 4v3 had the opportunity to play on his preferred maps more often than the one who lost which is not how the map picks should work.

@@btarczy5067 Any sensible tournament organizer would have realised that the best way to play a best of 7 with 3 homemaps for each player should have been by alternating between the homemaps from the players and then have a set map for the 7th game if needed. Thats the system for basically any other esport based around different maps.

I think this was a bit of hubris on part of T90. They loved the maps they created, so they wanted them played. When the new maps weren't picked so often, they forced them. Don't get me wrong, every one of the new maps is 10x as more enjoyable than Arabia. But having forced maps at the cost of fairness just doesn't fit in the largest AoE2 tournament.

Do you know guys know that Dux is how the italian dictator Benito Mussolini was known in Italy? It's the same as fuhrer for Hitler

Close, but no. Fascists called him Il Duce (The Leader). Part of his full title was Duce del Fascismo (Leader of Fascism). Duce was an Italian title derived from the Latin word Dux, which meant "Leader". Dux is also the root of the European title Duke. But yes like Hitler tainting the German word for Leader, Mussolini ruined Duce (not Dux) for everyone and it's now only used in reference to him.

@@Urrarg his name is DuxTheSavior, it's on the level "middle schoolers write on the schoolbus thing". And yea that's the ethimology of the word, but "dux" it literally is the title Mussolini gave to himself and in current language it is associated with him as much as "duce". He used it freely as you can see in his propaganda.

@ItsDexGaming If they are the best players they would meet up sooner or later so that‘s not the issue. Only seeing them in a Bo5 would be a bummer of course. I guess we can say that we got lucky this time because this series is an instant classic. Mechanically Hera had a tiny advantage in my eyes - with the exception of some crucial mangonel shots in the games Viper won. The execution for Viper is consistently high level but going forward he‘ll probably have to win with superior strategy and map awareness. The times in which he could outnerd everyone are over.

@@Progeusz I have not paid attention about the issue of home maps... This can be huge indeed. I agree I have also the feeling he threw up some maps in order to focus on the next to come... Bay is the turning point and regarding Cups, Viper is supposed to have watched the previous games and how Hera has prevailed there. He was aware about Hera'strat. I am looking forward Viper's debriefing if it comes.

Is there any information about that out already?

This comment is underrated, t90 should adapt it next year, they stole the win :D

yeah, weird decision from the organization

Injustice

I think he did it purposely and set maps were favored by hera

Imagine Viper fans being so butthurt they can't accept the rules of the tournament that all the players agreed to before playing in it. Cry more babies...

my heart was broken😔

Agreed, but what an amazing set of games. And credit to the snake for calling the last game early when he knew he had lost.

@@ghaznavid Yes! That was real class. It was for the finale, for a lot of cash and prestige - and he called it and wished him all the best. What a great guy

I see Hera as Broly at the begginning, trying to control himself but with unbelievable potential. He has not the modest and kind soul Gohan has (I'm not saying he is a bad person)

it was so frustating to se him go CA against halb-ram, not that I think HC-BBC would win the but, but after game 2 I still felt he should manage to win in that position