HiFiMAN Susvara vs Focal Utopia - Endgame headphone comparison 

The grain adds some analog warmth to it. Fitting. Great review as always!

Shoot everything on film from now on

Hollywood

I had them stacked up against few other headphones Last month. Had them driven through Benchmark DAC3 and HPA4. The contenders were Focal Utopia, HiFiMan Susvara, Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000 and Stax SR-009(Paired with SRM-D50 AMP). Stax SR-009 + Stax SRM-D50 is the combo I was able to source in. I am not sure how much the amp is effecting the Headphone and what to expect from either of those but the combo was also U shape with mids recessed and treble being bit to forward. Had to bring up the mids and bring down treble a notch. Detail was good, clear, had good . But accuracy was bit off. Was great for the game test even without EQ but had to bring down the treble and boost mids for movie. Overall experience left me unsatisfied. Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000 is a bit odd. Little forward on Mid range but is fine and be adjusted with little EQ completely acceptable without EQ. Detail was good, clear, accurate. Trying to be bright but with lack of protrusion of elements in the audio it falls apart. Like for example Susvara and Utopia and even SR-009 had good presence and all the elements in the audio were noticeably put forward where we don't have to try hard to search for what we need in song and can just enjoy all the detail outright. ADX5000 does deliver Detail and Clarity for separation but sadly lacks in protrusion of elements. We have to concentrate while listening to audio through them as we have to specifically search for the details we need to find and point out as they are not put forward like its competitors. It got almost everything right besides the fact that you need to Concentrate a lot while listening to them or would miss out detail even though it is present there. Decently good for gaming. Not so good for Movies. HiFi Man Susvara wow. It was treble forward so had to dial it down a bit and had to raise high-mid a bit and get bass a notch down. Detail was very good, clear, accurate. Level of detail on this and Utopia was a level above the others I tested above. Some may argue that ATH-ADX5000 has similar Level of Detail which can be true but sadly its lack of presence makes it feel to be anemic. One shortcoming was the treble roll off which was steep. Bass was brighter on this than on Utopia. Good for Gaming. Need to bring down the treble a bit and then it is good for Movies. Focal Utopia simply superb. Had to adjust the bass a little bit by bringing it up a notch and it was perfect. Detail was very good, clear, accurate. Level on detail on this and Susvara is level up. Hard to decide between the two based on detail but both are very close possibly Susvara edges out in some cases by a hair but cant go wrong either way. Treble response of Utopia the detail and balance is better than Susvara. And treble has smooth roll off. Good for Gaming. Good for Movies. Hard to decide between Utopia and Susvara. Susvara edges out Utopia in Detail by a little. But Utopia has better balanced frequency range and handles the Treble better than Susvara.

​ @King Dranzer I already owned the Arya v3, it is not balanced and not an end game headphone. Thanks for the info, I sort of have an idea how Susvara would sound. I prefer natural soundness or timbre because it will bring out the emotions. Just like HD-800 can but difficult for planar. Planar maybe more resolution due to cleaner sound only. Looking forward in the future to get Focal Utopia as my end game headphone...

what kind of job do you have? that's a pretty epic setup lol

@@the_wau_ i wanna know too

@@the_wau_ CEO of Sound lmao

You should try Abyss with Woo Audio WA33 Elite. Also DAC matters. I don’t own Susvara but I own Utopia and LCD4. Abyss sounds excellent with WA33 Elite with Chord DAVE+Blu MKII

What in the world do you do for a living??

Exactly! I would like to know how the LCD-4 and Abyss AB1266 compare to each other, as well as how they compare to the Susvara/Utopia

Musn't forget the skullcandy crushers

Which lcd4 2021 unit variation are we talking about here? 😂😂😂

Whats your opinion on Final d8000 pro?

@@jekken333 new pads that fix the 4khz dip

100% I ended up with the TC for planars and Utopia on tubes as the secondary set. Guess it depends on the music you listen to. All of those sets are epic, can't go wrong.

@@krisrudecki9477 That is also my point of view and I absolutely agree. Maybe this year is a good Black Friday Deal for the Utopia, then I'll get it too, think the Utopia looks damn sexy.

You lost me at 15 watts RMS is under amped

@@flitcroftLA you mean from Soloist?

@@krisrudecki9477 Yep, the Soloist 3XP puts out 15 watts RMS (Burson underrates it at 8 watts in balanced, but it's easy to test). There is no way the Susvara is underamped. 502 milliwatts is needed to reach 110db. 120db, dangerous to human hearing for any amount of time, requires 5012 milliwatts (5 watts) which the Burson can triple.

@@flitcroftLA I agree with you, but there are people who will claim many things about amping (like you need a 25w speaker amp to get bass etc), that’s why I said that it could’ve been under amped in my case. I couldn’t get any sort of slam out of Susvaras. When I say under amped I don’t mean peak power, but also dynamics, character of the amp etc. I don’t know if I should’ve been getting more from the Susvara. I since upgraded the PSU and rolled op amps, 1266 sound amazing from this stack. I might give Susvara another go at some point 🤷‍♂️

@@krisrudecki9477 They are wrong. :) There are also people that say that USB cables affect digital audio / sound signatures when that is impossible (USBs do not carry audio signals, disruption breaks error checking which leads to silence). I appreciate your notes -- just want to point out some wider-held beliefs are easily debunked with basic science.

You really believe that such an expensive headphone is being given away for feee just like that? Very very hard to believe!

@@newsigmundfreud3023 Well, it's not "for free" right? There's a value extracted from it through increased viewership and brand awareness. Of course, there's also shipping and taxes, but that's a small price to pay compared to the actual value of the product. Things are given a way for free in contests... Like cars...?

@@moltenbullet Nahhh. It can still be “given” to a not real person really. Make a name and anounce it, and you got viewers. *The host himself cant afford it, but he (or his friends at Headphones.com) are giving it away for him to have viewers?*

More often then not the top tier stuff is actually not so special with metal, at least without EQ. LCD-4, Arya, Utopia, HD800s, HEDDphone at least get outdone by an EQ'd DT1990/Amiron and probably a Sundara. Haven't heard the Susvara so maybe they're an exception. If Clear MG or Utopia (very similar in sound and quality) can handle a bass shelf with EQ then they might be pretty nice for metal.

iha6 doesn’t have the juice for susvara bakoon sounds much better in general too

@@apj.-.-.-.-.-.-.-119 evidently Andrew thought it had sufficient power because he was using it within the Susvara review earlier. It’s more a question of how it stands up in other areas.

What DAC, AMP and cables do you use?

@@allansh828 Yggy A2, GSX MK2. Some cable made by Torq for Utopia, Atlas Zeno (I think) for Susvara, and some random cheap xlr cables in between dac and amp. I have to admit I never heard Susvara on an "Ultra Hi-End" amp.

speaking of DAC, AMP, Streamer, and cables. Have you ever thought that maybe changing something in the drive train to flavor the Susvara's would make them more favorable than the Utopias?

Exactly. The DAC is one Of the main parts Of the chain.

@@s.chandrasekhar8290 ehh, a good dac is a good dac. Should sound clean and that's it.

*Why not ask what source music,.. ask about entire chain?*

Resolve here, not much for punch on the HD800S. It's not totally lifeless though, just not a particular strength.

He mentioned in a previous video/live stream that the Utopia is a bit too bassy paired with the Feliks Euphoria and he prefers it with an amp with lower ouput impedance. I couldn't find the output impedance on Feliks's website. I'm totally new to tube amplifiers and I have a question: if he used other tubes on the Euphoria, would he have another conclusion? In other words, how much does the tubes affect the frequency response compared to the ouput impedance?

@@malek8736 I appreciate that at the outset Andrew stated the this review was his opinion and that others may have a different take. I would like to add that many reviewers of the Utopia have commented on the relative lack of bass....and I fall into that camp as well. I feel that the Euforia has synergy with the Utopia and that it gives the right amount of emphasis in the bass and that tube-like sweetness that I value. So for me and for the folks at Focal (in whose ears I trust perhaps a bit more than Andrew) recommend using the Euforia with the Utopia. As they say "Different Strokes for Different Folks". Also I have to say that in the real world the pricing between the two setups is significant. If one shops carefully the Utopia/Euforia combo can be had for much less. I paid $2400 for a mint Utopia along with a Moon Audio cable and a hard shell case and I bought a used mint Euforia for $1450, which is substantially less than the Susvara and Bakoon which I rarely see go on sale.

Hello, i am really happy to hear this. My equipment ist the focal Celestee with Feliks Elise at the moment. i've been thinking about getting the utopia for a while now. And yes, the feliks amplifiers perform superbly with focal headphones. The Euforia had a bit too much bass for me, the Elise is a bit clearer.

We'll not talk about reliability for them tho

He1000se are much brighter than Susvara. He1000v2 are more similar to susvara imo.

neither would be good enough for that headphone to begin with.

@@KenMoreira I know, but that's not what I'm asking tho hahahaj

@@bryanedward5355 you'd still notice a difference even on entry level gear. It just wouldn't be as dynamic or natural sounding as it should. And certainly you'd be killing its depth of sound.

@@KenMoreira that's not what I meant either hahaha hmmm how should I say this... For example with the best amp pairing the Susvara would produce for example 100 amount of detail, and the utopia would produce about 90, and with lesser amps such like Jot 2 / Mjol 2, would the Susvara keep their advantage in detail againts the Utopia like 95 in the susvara and 85 on the Utopia or would the Susvara be only as detailed or even less detailed than the Utopia?

@@KenMoreira jot 2 is definitely good enough for the susvara. just need to make sure you're on high gain

Utopia didn't change as much off the Bakoon. Sounded fine, but I liked it better off the FORGE

As an owner of utopia, I do prefer tube amp for utopia. Maybe I will enjoy utopia treble from ss amp more as I grow old, but right now I’m pretty sure tubes make it shine.

i agree value wise both the rigs should be same

@@daretobe957 I am looking into getting a utopia, and running it off of the euforia. I am clueless for what dac to use though. What do you use?

@@mattkaye6559 I used to have OPPO udp-205 for streamer and dac. Recently switched to matrix x-sabre3. For portable, I pair Utopia with woo audio wa8 - even the built-in dac in wa8 sounds good enough for me.

32 would likely be too much yeah. I'd suggest sticking with 8

Did you get them? Old or new aryas?

@@BrentLeVasseur interesting. Hope you’re happy with them

I guess $4k HP is like a toy for their main product line of speaker systems, with that you were recognized a kid buying a cotton candy on street... Too bad!

You can use TT2 like that? The headphone amp of TT2 is quite underpowered, how's the speaker AMP sound?

Yes you can . You need to get a xlr cable tho , one made for whichever headphone you want to use . I had a custom one made for my susvara , and connected it’s significantly louder than the 1/4” port

I have the TT2 and having a speaker amp is noticeably better than the xlr outs

I would be using it to power the susvara . Also looking at a benchmark ahb2 for that as well

I would still get an amp.

I did. Check the pinned comment.

@@TheHEADPHONEShow Would you have flipped your choice though, if stuck with only either of the amps? Like would the amp lead the choice for your transducer in this case?

I did...

@@TheHEADPHONEShow Ah . I did not notice from watching.

So I currently own Stellias and I adore them. Thinking about new Utopias. I just like Focals presentation of sound, it seems.. fuller to me, smooth and musical, even if it means less detailed compared to planars. Although they are still crazy detailed.

Ya it's really not an issue at all. The Arya is objectively brighter than the target, but it's an example where that's totally fine because it's well-balanced.

@@TheHEADPHONEShow Gotcha. Thanks for the response and thanks for what you do. It's much appreciated. Keep up the Great work!

Resolve here, I don't have access to one. If someone wants to send a current revision in I'll happily review it.

+ dCS One, Mola Mola tambaqui, and Chord DAVE + MScaler CD transport

You provide him the $100k and he’ll get right on it 😉

Actually, Empyrean's technicalities compares to that of the HD800S, the Clear and the LCD-X. Still, they're great headphones. They're ones of the best (if not the best) headphones for built and comfort, and they're easy to drive and pair well with tube amplifiers.

empy doesn’t compare to these headphones at all it’s got the sound of $1500 headphones it’s just there for comfort and to look nice in reality

Empy is right up there with the Susvara and Utopia. Very very musical. (IMO).

@@malek8736 wtf? Man! This is dumb! Empyrean is much higher quality then lcd x or hd800. It’s different but up there with Utopia,Susvara. It’s the most musical headphone I’ve ever demo it.

@@combojohn7953 who talked about "musicality"? If you had enough experience with flagship headphones, you would know that the technicalities aren't up there.

no. Larger drivers usually delivers lower bass extension. Planars and eletrostats usually have huge drivers because the diaphrams can only move a very short distance. To push enough air, they need to be big to have any sense of dynamics.

@@allansh828 that's weird because hifiman Arya has a large drive and it doesn't have that problem

I also ordered Clear, my first open back headphones. Do You enjoy Yours, how do they sound, what are You using to run them? Thanks!

I think they sound incredible, I'm using a chord mojo, I think your going to like them

Just like Joshua Valour said, the Elex and the Clear can get you 98% of the sound of the Utopia so I don't think there is a big difference, imo.

I've heard some people say what your saying, and I heard others say the utopias are alot better, I guess everybody hears thing different, im satisfied with the clears I got a good deal, I paid 990 brand new with free shipping.

My biggest complaint about Utopia is imaging. It's basically on par with planars around half its price point, tho it is already the best as a dynamics. I guess the second generation of Utopia would use the honey comb design of the Clear MG to be more open and less congested.

@@allansh828 the thing about headphones and imaging is that headphones do a poor job at reproduction of stereofield for music that was designed for speakers in a room. All headphones fail at this and the only reason people think some headphones are better at soundstage is largely because of their frequency response. A headphone like an HD800s has a significant dip in its FR that can trick the mind into thinking it sounds more airy and spacious. However to truly get proper stereofield and imaging on headphones requires spatial DSP to replicate the natural crossfeed you’d get from speakers as well as it emulate the room reflections which actually soften the sound, adding reverb and changing transients. The future of music is DSP. We already have great transducers and the Utopia is among the best. It excels when used with spatial DSP and can sound near lifelike. I actually prefer it for surround sound mix downs (using Dolby Atmos for Headphones on PC) as you are always in the sweet spot which isn’t always practical with speaker setups. Spatial DSP is long understood in the professional recording industry but only recently is it starting to be understood in the audiophile headphone community. This will change with Apple introducing Dolby Atmos as well as the major gaming platforms that need spatial DSP for positional cues and immersion. Also, I still enjoy music without DSP, as your brain acclimates to it. However the Utopia can sound quite intense without it.

@@malfunkt Can you link me to those DSP you are talking about? I'd like to try them. Thanks.

@@HercahyoAdiSaputro sure. Search for Dolby Atmos for Headphones on the Windows store. This one is best used for multichannel content rather than stereo. It has configurable modes for Movie or Music settings. In the Movie setting try it out with the Netflix app (not the browser version as it doesn't output multichannel). Try it out with shows and movies. For mobile, try out Waves NX. The app is no longer supported but is free and is the best spatial dip for mobile. You'll need to measure your head circumference and enter this data in. The app has a quirk (on iOS) of resetting the effects depth everytime you open the app or plug your headphones in, so you may need to set it, but not too big of a deal. It can be used without the headtracker. Works well even with IEMs like Etymotic or BLON but try it with a linear open back like HD560S / Focal Utopia. For desktop, there is a consumer version of Waves NX, but it may not be the best supported. Waves does a better job supporting their AU/VST plugin for DAWs. I use www.waves.com/plugins/abbey-road-studio-3 , If you are on a Mac use a program like rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/ which can host Audio Unit effects. Unfortunately, it will only support stereo, but this fine for music. Setting up multichannel audio bussing on the Mac is a pain (outside of a DAW), but perhaps it could be setup so you can watch 5.1 movies from VLC and route to SoundSource. However, I just use Windows for that as multichannel and spatial dip support is built-in as part of the OS. For Abbey Road, you; will need to measure your head as well and you can now choose from different speaker emulations. Try this out with a range of recordings from all eras to get a sense of how it works on audio media. For PC desktop there is also www.redscapeaudio.com you can actually listen to some demos here www.redscapeaudio.com/pages/preview. make sure to not flick the effect on and off to quickly and give your mind a chance to adjust to its sound. With all DSP ymmv, depending on HRTf aspects for each individual as well as headphone type and eq.

*Question is: How would the Sennheiser HD800S sound here with there amps?... Which of these amps are better for the HD800S?*

the 009 has a pretty bad tonality, makes it not even close here on top of requiring a box that's impossible to find

Stax will destroy everything

Both are solid but I think Sus sounds more natural. But I haven't tried the Stax, so I can't say on that one.

@@TheHEADPHONEShow Thanks again for your feedback. I just realized that you're assocciated with a store so sorry about my other comment (that has been deleted) in which I was talking about maybe buying from other stores (not my best one!) but I'll take a look at your offers too.

us and canada, he said it's tough given other countries' laws regarding shipments and giveaways and he's working on it

*North America

@@malek8736 US and Canada

Between the Utopia, Susvara and HD800S - which one does it all, like resolution and separation? Is the Ferrum Oor doing a great job for all of them to compare? Thanks.

I tried 1266 TC. , utopia 2022 I still.prefer Susvara personal preference . Second is meze elite

Susvara is better of course. Hifiman's designers ain't stupid.

Never write of Focal: "Phone Wars - The Return Of The Dynamics" could be a true Blockbuster

Sopra is many times the price

From where did you get the idea the Focal driver is subjected to modal breakup?? It doesn't. It's an M-shaped dome, the whole point of is, is to NOT breakup. It's been lab tested with lasers measuring the form of the dome during operation. Also, its 40mm not 50mm.

First of all the Focal Utopia doesn't have a metallic timber, this has became a common "myth" in the audiophile community but this is not true, everyone who have spent a lot of time hearing one will tell you this, and even the occasional small "glare" that it can have in some tracks is basically a product of it's frequency response, it has nothing to do with beryllium "breakage" ro anything like that, you're comparing apples with oranges. Second, the Utopia drivers is 40mm and not 50mm, so you don't even know the most basic information about this product.

I would puke too, but it would be about having to spend $6k for an amp to get the best out of them ;)

@@markg3789 lmfao

Nahhh. I don’t believe such an expensive item being given away!