Just something i forgot to add, the reason level 3 is so big is because a level is worth roughly 600g of stats, that's well over a kill's worth of gold. So you get prio easily.
The voli played very poorly overall, not just the wave crash, he theoretically could have traded with u there when you were lvl 3 to his 2 and come out ahead since he would hit 3 off the residual AoE damage on the wave and be able to force an extension with a W
Same. I oftentimes just intuitively do those "bad" trades to pull the wave into pushing to me and I kinda know that it sets up a smooth path to L6 without my jungler running me down, but I couldn't figure out why.
I love this concept, well explained! I don't understand how it works against champions without aoe abilities (unless enemy top gets baited to trade in my wave so my minions are hitting the enemy top instead of the enemy minions, hence making his wave push quickly) I also feel compelled to stay in top to crash 4th or 5th wave (so I don't lose cs and xp) but I'm assuming scuttle crab is better than the few xp missed IF we are certain the enemy jungler is pathing up there
if they trade in your minions they take minion aggro which means your minions don't attack the enemy minions so it could still work. Although probably not as well.
I would like to add that you shouldn't always go for crab if your mid doesn't have prio because after we kill some melee minions from the 3rd wave, our minion wave is slowpushing to the enemy tower, dying in the river in that situation is very risky, because if you lose the top and jg vs mid and jg, it could be very hard to tp back, because they will be around still.
Hey! I loved the video and it was super helpful for me. The only enhancement I would suggest is showing the game clock during the game VOD, which would have helped me better track the scuttle crab spawn. Anyway, here's a subscribe
I did make my little top lane tactic note on my own when I was crazy about this game(I am still tho) and I was thinking that crashing 2nd wave right into opponents tower is not a good idea 'cause it will give the opponent chance to hit level 3 first in a safe position near his turret, and I'm amazed that I made the same conclusion with someone professional in this game
The best wave management is achieved when you completely nullify all the minions. To do this, assuming a windows computer, first open control panel, then go to programs and features, find league and right click uninstall.
In the scenario you showed, you killed the melee creeps of the 3rd wave to get level advantage, after the trade you walk to the river, but if udyr is smart enough to not contest the scuttle, will you not lose tons of miniongold/xp while roaming in a slow pushing state?
Good question. This way you guarentee the scuttle so either way the Udyr has lost out. The minions I've lost, maybe 3 or 4 max if we don't have that big fight are worth far less than the difference in gold 1 jungler getting and 1 jungler not getting scuttle is. This could even snowball into Iven getting both crabs and into more snowballing You are also not in a bad wavestate either because Udyr will try to go to bot scuttle instead and wont stop you from crashing.
i saw this video like 3 months ago, but im still thinking that if voli just sit in lane and pressure non stop before the c wave meet he will be 3 before anyways. Idk maybe im just wrong and being desilusional
Shouldnt the lane be even only? Since the enemy can hit the 3rd wave simultaneously if the 3rd waves dont meet under your tower and you dont have a very potent lvl 3 ganker as jungler
is it possible to use this strategy when I play katarina mid? my level 1 is so bad I'm not sure how to force a trade then, and I tilt hard when the 2nd wave freezes in front of my tower and the third wave crashes into me.
hey coach, im here because of your new video and I came back to this one and once again find myself stuck with the same question. Kat's Q is an AoE and I always try my best to make them trade into me but the wave keeps freezing under my tower
I do have one question on this. In a lot of games where I watch Foggedftw play Tryndamere, he often plays aggressive and crashes the 2nd wave. He then goes and wards the scuttle and lets the enemy slow push back to him. Why does he do this if its bad? In my games I would crash second wave so that they would push back into me and then I would have my jungler gank them since they would be pushing back into me
It's an option but the safer play is to let it push into you and freeze 2nd/3rd/4th/etc in front of your tower by contesting the push. If you crash 2nd you give wave control to the enemy top and in theory they can slowpush + dive you
If your champion is strong enough to contest even in a when down a level it's fine, you can just force it. For example earlier today I was playing Morde v Fiora and even with level 3 to level 2, her parry was still too much to take a meaningful trade and she still had wave control. It's also likely that the enemy top won't rush level 3 due to lack of knowledge so you probably can try to get level 3 before them still. But if both top laners know what they're doing yeah, it's rough. Thats why wave 2 crashes are really bad.
Ive always thought that you want to crash second because as I was learning the game thats what Foggedftw2 told me to do. Makes sense why my team always ints at scuttle now.
