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High Fantasy vs Sword & Sorcery 

Cliff Hamrick Writes
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I compare and contrast two subgenres of fantasy literature, high fantasy (such as Lord of the Rings) and sword & sorcery (such as Conan the Barbarian).
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19 фев 2021

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Комментарии : 40   
@ge0metr1xx
@ge0metr1xx Год назад
wow...I don't think you represented Sword and Sorcery OR Robert E. Howard very accurately at all. First of all ...as far as world building REH's Hyboria was just as/if not MORE fleshed out than Tolkiens. REH's S&S world is MUCH more ancient and layered than middle earth. If you consider that Kull and Conan are in the same world but in different ages. Conan's race the cimmerians are descendant of the Atlanteans (Kull). But Atlanteans were not the only race in Kulls age. REH's world building is actually much more complex than tolkien. Conan was a deeply philosophical character as well. he was a vessel for Howards views on statism, society and civilization. And Howard used multiple characters with intertwining story arches. Now onto the monsters Robert E Howards Sword and Sorcery has many types of monsters, demons, humanoids, Demon-Men half breeds, changelings, gargoyles, serpent men, familiars, Cosmic Horrors, Alien life forms, alien plants, alien characters and alien relics that granted wizards vast powers. Elder races and their elder magics, and types of dragons. You're really are selling REH and the entire genre short here, man. Magic? REH had a ring of power, Ring obsession, robe wearing wizards with long beards, giant spider battles, swords made of meteorites long before Tolkien . Robert E. Howard Magic was much more powerful and complex than Tolkien's if you understand ancient occult practices, Solomon thaumaturgy, eastern black magic, goetia demonology, hermeticism, Astrology, interdimensions, reincarnation. howard's S&S has worging or Beast Master magics, Necromancy, Astromancy. It's safe to say that REH's magic in Sword and Sorcery is much more powerful than Tolkien. Wizards? You are wrong when say there are no Wizards who are main characters in REH world. Look at Pelias from the scarlet citadel. Robert E. Howard DID NOT copy his magic from HP Lovcraft. Just wow.. Way to discredit a genius who was ahead of his time! Robert E. Howard corresponded with H. P. Lovecraft and the two influenced each other. Magic in Howard’s works called on ancient forces or was practiced by a relic of the ancient forces who survived to the modern world (The Devil in Iron for example). Wizards in Howard’s world were powerful but they were either not all-powerful or they had a weakness (for example: the special dagger in the Devil in Iron). Sometimes Conan was simply the witness to the passing of an ancient god (The Tower of the Elephant). This is true for all of Howard’s characters which is why it was fairly easy to rewrite some Solomon Kane stories as Conan ones. Gandalf cannot bring a city back from the ruins or reanimate a stegosaurus as meat-eating dragon (Red Nails). He (Gandalf) set things on fire several times and called up some thunderbolts but that was about it. There was very little actual magic in LotR. Instead we had magical beings. REH died before he hit his prime, Tolkien wrote at an older age. I wager had REH lived to old age he would have compiled his brand of fantasy into Sword and Sorcery epics that would have over shadowed Tolkien's works.
@codyawz
@codyawz Год назад
Tolkien's constructed languages stand tall giving the world depth and historic meaning. Given places change over time and the naming and language reflect this change and consistency. It is difficult to compare the Silmarillion with any conan work of Howards. Still, REH is superb. Both giants.
@ge0metr1xx
@ge0metr1xx Год назад
@@codyawz Howards essay on the Hyborian age goes into past, present and future of Hyboria. Solomon Kane takes place in the same universe. Both giants for sure
@crazyfool7685
@crazyfool7685 Год назад
I always love fantasy and sword and sorcery where snow is involved like in the Fellowship of the ring or in Conan the barbarian
@cliffhamrickwrites2378
@cliffhamrickwrites2378 Год назад
Keep an eye on the channel then! I'll be announcing a collection of short stories with a lot of snow.
@andrewblack2596
@andrewblack2596 2 года назад
I miss sword and sorcery.
@cliffhamrickwrites2378
@cliffhamrickwrites2378 2 года назад
It's making a comeback! There are a lot of indie authors (including myself) that are writing sword and sorcery stories.
@jima6545
@jima6545 Год назад
Doing research for a campaign I'm writing in the Primeval Thule setting. The setting is by Sasquatch Games and is based off of the writings of Robert E Howard and HP Lovecraft. The word you were searching for was episodic. Another name for the genre is Sword and Sandals. I'm trying to write the campaign as epic fantasy through the scope of low fantasy. Challenging but I think I have...angles.
@wsp2000
@wsp2000 2 года назад
I guess there is a lot of overlap between the genres
@andrewblack2596
@andrewblack2596 2 года назад
Sword and Sorcery is more R-rated. More primitive, darker aspects of humanity. Characters are in it to win it or just trying to survive, maybe trying to get revenge. It’s not about heroes in shining armor.
@gutembergjunior3538
@gutembergjunior3538 8 месяцев назад
One of the Best video about this subject.
@alexdelarge1652
@alexdelarge1652 Год назад
Great video! Very informative. Was wondering could you give me a list of classic sorcerer antagonist’s from the genre of sword & sorcery?? I’m making an old school campaign, so I’m looking for some influences.
@cliffhamrickwrites2378
@cliffhamrickwrites2378 Год назад
The first two that come to mind are Thulsa Doom (Conan's antagonist in the movie Conan the Barbarian) and Thoth-Amon from the comics. Red Sonja from the comics had to deal with Kulan Gath. If you want something from the original Conan stories, then check out Yara from The Tower of the Elephant or Thugra Khotan in Black Colossus.
@alexdelarge1652
@alexdelarge1652 Год назад
@@cliffhamrickwrites2378 thanks for the reply!
@aaronworkgrierson1470
@aaronworkgrierson1470 Год назад
I liked hearing your perspective on sword and sorcery. It was good to get your insights. I'd like to read your stories. Are they published?
@cliffhamrickwrites2378
@cliffhamrickwrites2378 Год назад
Thanks! If you want to check out my stories then just follow this link: www.amazon.com/Cliff-Hamrick/e/B081X9QZLC
@aaronworkgrierson1470
@aaronworkgrierson1470 Год назад
@@cliffhamrickwrites2378 cool
@OliverBrackenbury
@OliverBrackenbury 4 месяца назад
I'm a big fan of Brian Murphy's flexible definition of S&S. Have you read his book "Flame & Crimson: A History of Sword & Sorcery"?
@cliffhamrickwrites2378
@cliffhamrickwrites2378 4 месяца назад
Not yet! It's on my shelf but I have yet to read it. But I've heard a lot of people say that it is the definitive guide to the S&S genre.
@OliverBrackenbury
@OliverBrackenbury 4 месяца назад
@@cliffhamrickwrites2378 Oh, it's great stuff. Well worth the time spent reading.
@jeffwhittingham5314
@jeffwhittingham5314 3 месяца назад
Great video. Best explanation I think I've seen. I like both but prefer sword and sorcery personally. That said, most RPG campaigns I'm in oddly enough (both as player and GM) wind up more epic fantasy. I think the group I'm in just gravitates towards it more.
@ianbowden2524
@ianbowden2524 Год назад
Does elric count as sword and sorcery? Or high fantasy?
@cliffhamrickwrites2378
@cliffhamrickwrites2378 Год назад
Elric is generally considered sword and sorcery.
@demonic_myst4503
@demonic_myst4503 Год назад
Alot the early ones are tropes rather than determinage like conan has more than himans it has none human creatures and monsters Personaly i feel comes more down ti thw moral aspwct sword and sorcery is amoral rather than the high fabtasies good vs evil scope of conflict
@stoneworkmegapup215
@stoneworkmegapup215 2 года назад
Lord of the Rings is very clearly influenced by Victorian/Edwardian adventure novels, in which you often have an entire party go out on a quest or achieve some kind of goal. Henry Rider Haggard's King Solomon's Mines is a good example of this.
@JGott0001
@JGott0001 2 года назад
I have a suggestion: I think this video is at least 5 minutes too long and I think you could trim it with basic editing (cuts) and a more concise delivery (script) without losing any meaningful content. If you had cuts, you could do each segment a couple times over to make the delivery smoother (e.g. there's a lot of "uh's" that would clear up with a second take). Cutting away to some b-roll or other supplemental material like images of maps, book covers, frame grabs from movies (like a still of Conan from the movie), and other graphics (like a two column illustration for comparisons) would be pretty simple to insert without more advanced editing and would really help the 25 minutes of a talking head. You may not be wanting to make the definitive RU-vid video for the topics you discuss, but when I searched "sword and sorcery vs high fantasy", yours was the first result. So, I'd say it has potential.
@alexanderboukal5332
@alexanderboukal5332 3 года назад
There's a lot of sword and sorcery authors out there if you read SFF magazines.
@cliffhamrickwrites2378
@cliffhamrickwrites2378 3 года назад
Yep! I think that's where the growth is.
@bookssongsandothermagic
@bookssongsandothermagic 2 года назад
Excellent explanation of the differences
@ge0metr1xx
@ge0metr1xx Год назад
It was actually quite horrible and inaccurate
@ianbowden2524
@ianbowden2524 Год назад
I wonder why high fantasy has garnered such popularity while sword and sorcery remains largely obscure. Well it was more popular in the 80s, but nowadays anyway.
@cliffhamrickwrites2378
@cliffhamrickwrites2378 Год назад
I think a lot of fantasy readers really get into the world-building of fantasy, which isn't usually the focus in sword and sorcery. It's not to say that you can't have a lot of world-building, because that's certainly there. But I've found that most world-building in sword and sorcery is parsed out in a few paragraphs here and there rather than a long diatribe on the smoking habits of hobbits. Also, magic systems seem to be very popular with fantasy readers, which is usually absent in sword and sorcery. In S&S, magic is reserved for the truly insane and evil people who are willing to risk their souls for power. Magic is inherently impossible to understand. So for readers who like to learn about a complex runic system that lets a wizard create a magic vault in which they can store their magic items, then S&S isn't going to give them anything like that. But, I think S&S is making a comeback. The popularity of Game of Thrones and The Witcher shows that audiences are ready for something different.
@Dexroid
@Dexroid 2 года назад
Great video. Thanks for the breakdown. I've been a massive Robert E Howard fan for a few years now. I enjoy most of the follow up authors, as well. I think he fleshed out the Hyborian Age beautifully. Varied, altered Europe/Asia/Africa with distinct cultures.
@cliffhamrickwrites2378
@cliffhamrickwrites2378 2 года назад
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it. Yes, RE Howard wanted to write stories in a historical backdrop but didn't want to be tied to any particular nationality. So, he was inspired by various historical cultures but changed them up enough to make them his own. I think part of it was because there wasn't an internet back then. His research was limited to what he knew and what he could find in the local library. My guess is that the library in Cross Plains, TX didn't have much to go on except a set of Encyclopedia Britannica.
@Dexroid
@Dexroid 2 года назад
@@cliffhamrickwrites2378 fair enough. Are you still planning on making a video covering his style, or did I just miss it?
@ge0metr1xx
@ge0metr1xx Год назад
@@cliffhamrickwrites2378 You are way off the mark here. Again.
@ge0metr1xx
@ge0metr1xx Год назад
@@Dexroid Cliff is making stuff up. REH was very learned. His dad was a doctor who had an extensive library at his home. REH's father would comment on how his son read every book in the libraries and how much vast knowledge he had. REH also wrote historical non-fiction as well. This cliff guy is a like a kid on playground just making shit up as he goes.
@bizarrebraincomics7819
@bizarrebraincomics7819 Год назад
Love S&S best. Also S&S comes out of horror. High fantasy doesn't.
@cliffhamrickwrites2378
@cliffhamrickwrites2378 Год назад
This is true. There's always been an element of horror in S&S
@nolanbrooks1588
@nolanbrooks1588 8 месяцев назад
I offer this comment up as a sacrifice to the all powerfull god, algorithm! May his fickle blessings be upon your channel 😂
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