for that SUPER SPEED, you would benefit more if the rocket motors were linked in series. EXAMPLE= 3 motors fired at once will give you less velocity than 3 motors fired back to back. you are really really really looking for long burn time. off the shelf rocket motors do not provide this, except in a multi stage config. If you want to break some speed records, ditch the electric motors (drag)...attach the rocket plane to the belly of a carrier plane...release mid air, fire the multi stage rockets with your control trims set low. BINGO BONGO, YOU JUST HIT 200MPH. but what would i know, i just work for northrop.
Have you thought about using a prob from a glider, the ones that fold back when not in use. Might help having them fold back when you hit the rocket... loving the videos by the way !!
Yes I was thinking about using one if I am to continue with this hybrid system! I may return to pure high power rocket planes in the future through, perhaps dropped from a drone (with increasingly huge engines 😉 )
@@Project-Air if you do so - which I think is a great idea - make sure to cut off the power when you switch to rockets, as the propeller might ruin the blades if it folds while spinning
@@Project-Air can you name the white plane Sielulintu? (Finnish word, approximate english translation is "Soulbird". They are creatures from finnish mythology, wich bring a person's soul to their bodies on the moment of birth, and on the moment of death they bring the soul to the afterlfe.)
I had a bad day and seeing you succeed brightened up my day! Amazing video James! I think you need an esc with a brake feature(my turnigy plush-32 has one) to stop the motor immediately while still having speed and a folding propeller to reduce drag, as the area of a non folding spinning propeller that produces drag is equal to the circle that the prop makes when spinning and not just surface area of blades.
@@Project-Air They're actually pretty cheap, no more than 15 bucks on hobby king and you can find different blades sold separately for spinners on banggood and aliexpress
@@Project-Air what if you use higher pitched props that way you can still get some power off of them whilst the rocket is on, though depending on the pitch guessing it might need an air launch
Look at some as3x gyros they are a godsent for small planes in bumpy weather, there only made to keep the plane stable it wont do anything lie the “safe” gyro, it just keeps your plane pointed where u point it. I also recommend practicing landing multiple times every time u fly not actually putting the plane down just practice keeping it slow and putting it into ground affect
DO NOT put a folding propeller ! You can extract a lot of thrust from you propeller even at very high speeds. You should consider putting a higher pitch propeller, and/or go to a higher voltage battery to get higher RPM.
So firstly, this was rad! :D Secondly, I have lots of suggestions! I'd like to agree with both (1) the people saying use a canard and/or delta config (easier for CG, they are SO forgiving) and (2) the people saying use a higher pitch prop rather than a folder. I'd also add, try to have more tapering at the rear of the craft, and taper the trailing edge of the wings to be thinner - you're going to lots of effort to make a lovely nose cone, but rear streamlining makes a way bigger difference to drag reduction than frontal streamlining. And then, cashing in some of those savings on parasitic drag, you could afford to have just a little more wing area, for a much easier takeoff and landing.
The whole time I was thinking "why is he testing the electric mode of the flight without an appropriate mass at the rear to represent the rocket motors?" Aaw well. RUDs also make for great videos, well done with the project, and I really hope that you still plan to try again with a tweaked original design
I love your smaller airplane ! Weight is absolutely critical, especially in rockets. To go faster you should put a propeller with a bigger pitch, so it will not overspin when lighting up the rocket, which makes the motor ineffective.
Btw, you should look into using the "plugged" rocket engines instead of the upper stage type. The plugged style do not have an ejection charge, and they have a clay cap to prevent the hot gasses from exiting the forward part of the engine as happens with a booster type. D11-P from Estes is a good example, or the smaller A10-PT.
If you set the motor brake to ON using the ESC programming, it will minimize drag on either props or EDFs and allow the ROCKET to maximize the thrust with minimum drag.
Checking the static center of gravity is far too easy. Skipping that step during a build doesn’t even make sense. Then he forgot to allow for the ejection charge as well? Slow down a little... make a checklist and follow it. Pay attention to the important details and be proud of the results.
Really glad you tried this. was a project 14 year old me always wanted to try. RC tech hadn't progressed to the point it was practical and Pre job dollars were precious. Good stuff. Good on your sponsor Brilliant.Org for helping you out.
You might want to look into folding props like what they use on gliders, you could go full throttle then right before ignition, cut it and it should fold and have a lot less resistance
I'm sure you probably already know that Hobby King used to sell an Me163 into which you could install a rocket motor - the motor they recommended is a C6-0 the 0 on the end means that there isn't a parachute ejection charge - it would be interesting to see not just the max speed but how much was added to the propeller speed by the rocket
Awesome man! Love these projects! Maybe you need a folding prop or something like a small pylon racer prop with more pitch than diameter to have no drag and maybe additional thrust when the rocket boosters are ignited. Can't wait for your next video!
Watching all you guys on youtube has definitely inspired me. I've built a few planes this year, and have plans to design and build even more. RU-vid creators are the true "influencers.."
Great Work! I think there is much Room for Improvement. Might I suggest using an EDF and a Closable Air Intake... something like in SR-71 Blackbird. You could close the Intake just when the Rockets ignite and open it again just after the Boost, hence reducing the prop Drag.
This reminds me of when I was a recruit technician for a guided missile project during the Cold War. One day I misaligned the trajectory on one of the prototypes and ended up obliterating a Cattle Shed 2 miles east of the testing facility. Little did I know back then that farm was owned by Jebediah Lipman, who would go on to become my greatest rival in the tomato empire for years to come
Such an amazing person. It’s lovely to follow you and your amazing mind on these journeys. I share them with my little ones as well and don’t mind saying, if any one of them is as successful, intelligent, driven and humble as you, I’ll be one proud father! Keep up the amazing work. Inspiring to say the least!!!
THANK YOU for showing when it goes wrong and you have to study why. Then with what you have learned build again, over and over until you get it right.💯👍
Try to use folding props with esc braking to decrease drag when you fire the booster. This should let the prop blades fold back becoming more aerodynamic and the esc braking will stop the motors from spinning therefore preventing an accidental opening of the folding props. I hope this helps, Jeb
Just an idea for the landing pad, use spare or extra cardboard boxes layed out and slightly held down by lightweight stakes so during wind, your tarmac is safe and recovery of your craft is higher with minimal damage.
try a peizio gyro in it for the ailerons. it stabilises the flight dynamics and when setup right will make for much better video - less jurking around and nicer to fly.
Adding weight and wind resistance is counter productive to your goal. You should lighten the aircraft and use a bungee type catapult if you want to light rockets while in flight. Either that or drop the rocket plane from an RC plane just like Bell X-1.
Everyone here has made great suggestions when it comes to the aerodynamics and thrust, but I highly recommend implementing some sort of gyro or differential thrust or both. Identifying any problems with the plane through testing becomes significantly harder with low reliability. And you can save time, money, and airframes if the plane is capable of keeping itself alive. You don’t want to make decisions on bad data.
Very nice work! Yes, I'm an Estes afficiando as well. Dial back to 1965 and my family roll up to the Estes Model Rocket digs in Penrose, Colorado! No one in town knew where it was. I was deflated. I imagined a small NASA. Not so, just a couple of ladies fulfilling orders in a small shed for grommets like me.
Try using Estes engines for booster stages. Those don't have the charge to eject a parachute. Or like some of the boost gliders do, use the parachute charge to eject the engine itself.
What about using an underside wing mount for the boosters? Fit cones to the front of them for aero, and a ducted fan for standard flight power. Keeps it fairly stream line and the balance will never change, even as the powder leaves the solid rockets since they will be wing mounted. Just a thought.
I only know this when I mucked around doing similar stuff with my two kids other people told me it would not work but it did. It Did not like it just with propelled engines on their own but soon as I hit rockets made a hell of a difference just wished I kept the videos of it.
How about trying this: let's say you launch with 3 out of six engine ports ignited. You zoom about and whenever you feel like it, you ignite the other set of 3 engines. You don't need a separate stage. Just light them with igniters already installed. Keep up the fine work!
Aerodynamically, I would put the EDFs inside the body and put the smaller rockets under the wings. With the thrust of the rockets it's going to rotate into a loop. CG a little forward if you can. I've done something similar and nose heavy helps with rockets.
The rockets should be located along the longitudinal axis, preferably as close as possible to the center of the body so they won't exert a severe pitch up moment. Under the wings is BAD.
@@aGabay test it with a glider and smaller rocket. You need the nose weight or it's going to rotate to a loop. Under the wings, forward of CG or close to longitudinal axis either way. Still needs to be forward of CG unless you use a low thrust to weight ratio.
@@aGabay put a C rocket directly CG on a stryrofoam plane. I think they're about a 3 ft wing span. You can buy on Amazon or Walmart... Fly it and you'll see what I mean. Heavier wing loading might help though.
Greetings James! Your first plane with the EDF’s flew pretty well. I would recommend you return to that design and refine it. I would also recommend that you use rockets without the ejection charge. If you want to get fancy, you could use adjustable nose cones in front of the EDF’s to reduce drag when you fire the rockets, similar to the air inlets on the SR-71 engine nacelles. Also, if you install flaps on the wings, the aircraft would be more stable at slower speeds for softer landings. Since the original configuration performed so well, in my opinion, that it deserves further investigation and refinement, you could also try adding retractable landing gear, or skids. Another thing you could try, is to put a heat resistant bulkhead in rocket motor section so that the rocket motor/motors self eject when they are depleted. Thank you for posting this video! Please have an excellent and awesome day! 🙂
it looked like you were tail heavy, which you addressed in the video. It also looks like your thrust line on the rocket plane was below your CG as well, which will pull your plane nose down
Great video and project! A suggestion regarding overdriving the motors under rocket power. Look for "lift motors" used by RC glider pilots. They have fold-back propellers that are designed to fold-back flat when the power is cut. Perhaps you could use one/two of those for the electric-powered portion of the flight, then cut power just as the rocket motors kick in. Keep up the great work and thanks for letting us learn-along!
I may be wrong, and correct me if i am, but im imagining it would be more efficient and you would be able to get more out of 4 engines if you add a sort of funnel on the end and when you want rocket power you ignite them individually with the thrust coming specifically out of the funnel making it not spin out of control.
Little tip, you want your CG not smack center, but slightly nose heavy, so if u held the plane under the center of the wings at the fuselage, you want it to tilt forward ever so lightly. It makes for a much more controller launch and in air stability, center balance is almost like being tail heavy as u accelerate the air pressure at front half of the plane will cause it to act tail heavy. Other than that, great job still!!
Hey dude. Remove the clay plug, just lightly scrape it off. Empty the lose BP. Then mix some epoxy and poor in so it’s level. This makes for a plugged motor. You’ll won’t have an ejection charge but will have a smoke/delay charge after the motor has burned. Also I use a Turnigy RC switch for the ignition. On my radio I have an arm and disarm switch then the trigger.
I have an idea to protect the props during high speeds... Build forward-pointing conical-shaped shrouds and attach permanently to fuselage/wings, then mount the motors on servos that position the props behind the shrouds while the rockets are firing and protrude away from them during normal flight to achieve proper airflow. Worth a shot?
Years ago, I flew R/C quite a bit. Sometimes I'd crash on that first flight due to something shifting and my CG going rearward. Then, in an ah ha! moment, I realized I had more thrust than weight, so I could just point the nose up and hang it on the prop. The next time I had a bad launch and the craft wanted to immediately stall, I throttled up and pointed the nose up. Then just gradually throttled back to set it down gently on it's tail rather than try to recover into flight. Saved rebuilding it. :-)
How about a folding glider prop? Hook a motor cutout to the igniter circuit with a slight delay if required; to componsate for ignition to full power delay. 114mph is defo doable.
Yeah, from what I understand, EDFs have lower static pressure at a standstill, but increases in affective power once you get some air pushing through them. EDFs would also cause more drag with the rocket boosters, though.
That went fairly well, and the concept is definitely proven. Depending on how you want to proceed, if at all, she has a lot of promise. Unfortunately you will have drag from the primary motors, but I think 125mph achievable. Another great production mate, looking forward to more as ever. Be well and safe.
Thunderbirds are Go! (Well nearly!) Pity about the first plane coming a cropper, but you've proved the concept & now for the record - can't wait, but choose nice weather, even if the C of G wasn't out, it would have taken some controlling in that wind!
What might be a good idea for a future design is to have the EDF internal so that way when it’s time to ignite the jets the EDFs won’t add additional drag
0:05 ...this take reminds me to the sequence of the movie 'The right stuff', when Chuck Yeager watches the X-1 being fueled and the vaporizing fuel forms misty clouds... ...nice 'easter-egg'...! ;-)
