HIGHLIGHTS Is Church Harmful? - Dave Silverman, Eric Hovind, Sye Ten Bruggencate 

The more I see of Sye, the more he reminds me of a child...

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge." No. It is the end of knowledge.

Why would Sye even attend a debate he obviously had no intent on participating in?

The theologian who plugged his ears and repeated "You denied knowledge so you know nothing" when the secular guest said that you can know something and still be wrong, just kept repeating his mantra to avoid engaging. It brought to mind a quote to elucidate the secular guest's point. It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. - Mark Twain

Luckily, Dave Silverman has more patience than I have. I would started being rude, insulting, and obscene very quickly.

Sye seems to think he's "proving" something by using word games and trying to trick someone into agreeing with a carefully worded question so he can pounce on it. When someone asks an intelligent, open-minded person if they could be wrong about everything they know, often people will agree. Why? Because people who seek the truth will admit they could be wrong. If you have a moment to think, the answer is "no", because we do know some things with certainty. Two plus two is four, and is so because we defined it that way. We know this with certainty. If two plus two was equal to something else, it would be because we redefined addition, and then that would be a fact. And while I can't prove God doesn't exist (disproving an untestable condition is impossible), I can state with confidence that I'm not God (lacking omniscience and all that). So no, I can't be wrong about everything I know. Then Sye follows his routine script and asks how you can be sure you can trust what your senses tell you. This is the worst kind of intellectual dishonesty. He's trying to play on the fact that our senses can sometimes deceive us. But I could respond to this as well by the simple fact that I navigate through my life, work at my job, and live with my family successfully. The fact that I keep living and keep succeeding is very suggestive that my senses are, in fact, trustworthy. The flip side of this dishonest coin is that by his own argument, the "divine revelations" Sye gets can also be dismissed using his crazy logic. When Sye debates with people actually prepared to debate, he spends most of his time playing word games and arguing everything under the sun without making any actual points. This is why people keep asking him where he's going, or to back up his statements immediately, and not after he plays another half hour of word games to obscure the debate. I had a min-debate with a creationist who tried to redefine my statement that logic was a human construct and so not a product of God to "logic is conventional". He then went on to argue that since logic is conventional it is subject to change and therefore can't be trusted. Whether this was true was meaningless - it wasn't what I said. Likewise Sye tries to trick slips of the tongue out so he can start his argument with a flawed premise he tricked his opponent into agreeing with. Using this same artifice, I could ask someone if they could possibly imagine a world where people lived hundreds of years. Since science has steadily increased our lifespans, a reasonable person might say yes (especially if I lead them there with quick words), and I could then ask how they could argue that biblical figured lived hundreds of years. One has nothing to do with the other, but if you talk fast you can sometimes make it stick. Here's my personal challenge to apologists everywhere: Instead of trying to prove your point by attacking science with arguments a high school student could debunk, provide evidence for your case. The evidence must be published in a respected peer-reviewed scientific paper, something that can be tested and repeated. Stop trying to go back AFTER the fact and claim the Bible made predictions of events that already happened. If you want to convince someone, make a prediction based on the Bible BEFORE the event, and we'll see if it comes true. I'm not aware of a single time the Bible has been used to successfully predict specific future events. The problem with apologists is that they have never brought forth a single piece of evidence to support the theory of God that would stand up to scientific scrutiny. Instead they've constructed an argument that at it's essence states they're right and don't have to prove it because they couldn't possibly be wrong. That's not a terribly convincing argument to anyone that doesn't already agree with you.

Excellent! Thanks for posting :)

Thank you so much. I'll check it out.

exactly! just like how people will talk about Santa and deny Santa in the same breath! It doesn't make sense.

He makes Hovind look reasonable.

7:45 the child leaves the room, commence rational discussion

By what standard do you call anything good or evil as an atheist?

how they follow from "everything I know could be wrong" "you have no knowledge" ? Is it another non sequitur in the name of jesus?

just imagine... 2 1/3 hours of this

Is it absolutely true that God is imperfect if he created the universe?

Getting Syed, Getting Trolled, interchangeable terms.

Knowledge = justified true belief, what is Syes justification for his knowledge???? FAITH, thats right -Sye contradicts the meaning of knowledge.

A perfect God is perfectly contented. A perfect God needs nothing. To want to create implies a need. A God who would need or want to create is not a perfectly content God. Sye's God is imperfect if he created the universe. By most christian definitions, God is perfect. Did creating the universe make him perfecter?...hehe

Guy is right. Church. Why? Think

"I could be wrong about everything I claim" Sye: Holds them consistent with that *ATHEISTS THROW TEMPER TANTRUMS FOR BEING HELD CONSISTENT WITH THEIR WORLDVIEW*

LOL, great catch =]

I'll leave a like just for Dave Silverman's face palm. Sye, how frustrating is he. Seriously.

Sye Ten Bruggencate could not tell you WHY God created the universe...not a chance in hell unless he admits to believing in an imperfect God. If he did, he would be an honest man.

WOW! Eric Hovind gets pwned by a Christian minister here.

Dr. Michael Jones? The reasonable Christian? Wow, I'll never say that's an oxymoron again. He looks at Jesus the philosopher and supports it with cogent logic. I wonder if he could change these guys' minds?

2:15 look at their faces! They know when they're beaten.

No no. Ironically this is how it evolves. You might call it survival of the fittest. Its real time macro evolution :-)

sye argues like a child who must always be correct

If you don't know that I know that you know cuz sye is in the know God thing and he has Gods phone number but only Sye can hear him ! LOL

face palm Sye

This knowledge what you know you don't know guy is so arrogant and ignorant with his argument. How can you have an intelligent conversation with someone who keeps on like that.

Is Sye suffering from some kind of personality disorder? It’s a serious question btw. His thought process is so bizarre

i am a non-believer. but his clip is terrible. completely rigged. what a biased debate. you invite a guy on and then don't let him finish his sentence. If you want to criticize religion, let the guy make his point and then refute them, dont just shout him down. shows weakness. Watch some Hitchens for guidance. based on their behaviour i want to defend sye although i dont agree with him.

Don't forget derailing

Sye, the people watching have no idea what you're saying.

this guy "sye" crazy? or?

Sye is a one trick pony.

*immoral

My imagination combined with my empathy gives me my morality. I can imagine that I would not want to be murdered. That would not feel so great. So I don't want to do it to you.

define "church"

Sye- "before having a discussion about anything we have to have a foundation of knowledge and truth" ....so sye wont discuss the weather with someone unless they agree with his god......lol. Must be hard to get through the day arguing for hours with the cashier at the supermarket about a price check....or a restaurant server about the bill, etc. "The bill is $29.54 sir" ....sye- "could you be wrong about that?"

I had a very long day today, and I can't tell you how much this video made my evening, lol. Pure joy.

when you see Eric Hovind in the title..you know it's going to be hilarious.

Nah. It follows from Sye employing a foundationalist epistemology and a correspondence theory of truth. He's basically viewing knowledge as "justified true belief" and when people say "I'm not sure if my knowledge is true" it's immediately degraded to a mere belief in his way of looking at things. But he is of course intentionally refusing to relate to more useful ways to define knowledge.

These guys are arguing 'Without God you have no knowledge'. If someone doesn't value evidence and logic, what evidence and logic can you provide to persuade them otherwise?

and another thing in regards to sye, if you can't debate with people who disagree with you or who you think are wrong, you shouldn't be allowed to debate at all.

We can't have an argument about the economy guys because we could be wrong about anything and everything

Oh man. Sye epic FAIL when he gets called out on his cheap shell game. It doesn't work Sye. The great thing is when he tried to leave the parking lot he ended up just driving in circles. He's still there.

Sye has far too big of an ego to ever make the journey out of his delusional state. It's sad for him. Last night TruthSurge exposed him to the polytheism of the ancient hebrews and he was actually speechless for a few moments as he was and is completely unaware of ancient history surrounding the invention of his god. It was a sparkling moment.

07:45 RAGE QUIT! See ya, Sye! Let's hope the rest of this video is a rational conversation worth listening to.

knowl•edge noun 1. acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things. 2. familiarity or conversance, as with a particular subject or branch of learning: A knowledge of accounting was necessary for the job. 3. acquaintance or familiarity gained by sight, experience, or report: a knowledge of human nature. 4. the fact or state of knowing; the perception of fact or truth; clear and certain mental apprehension.

"God in some respects could be an alien with advanced technology" I would agree with you on that one "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Such an alien would definitely appear to be some sort of supernatural being to a bronze age Palestinian Though, it would seem more probable that the gods of our world are little more than humans trying to explain the world around them. Almost every ancient culture had a god who was responsible for rain, lightning, wind, etc.

listening to Sy reminds me of my first year at university where we learned about epistemology, he realy should use his time to learn about the topic, because in this he is just showing off his utter lack of knowledge and his ignorance about this.

How does it not make sense? Just because we don't believe in a god does not mean we can't talk about the logical facilities of religion. And don't get me started on the wicked evil beliefs and harm from religion, which us atheist damn will speak out against.

Sye doesn't debate anything. He simply asserts that his view is correct because he believes it is correct and no one can dispute his personal assertion. He will accept no evidence contrary to his belief in himself and his own assertions.

Yup, it was. Great upload and an enjoyable 7 minutes after Sye stomped off of the stage.

This debate was slow in the beginning. But it became really great after that idiot Sye left. Everyone should watch this. The two older gentlemen were really great. I say this as an Atheist.

You can go to either Biblethumpingwingnut's or Steve Shives' channels Steve has a link in the description of his promo for the debate. Biblethumpingwingnut has the original video on his channel.

1.On what propositions do you have absolute knowledge/certainty? 2. Through what mechanism do you acquire absolute knowledge/certainty? 3. Through what mechanism do you assess the reliability of the mechanism through which you acquire absolute knowledge/certainty?

I'm so sick of the religious using the moral argument. Like religion has any right to talk about morality considering every religion is in moral in the worst way possible. Oh the irony.

Wow I don't even think Eric has done a complete read through the bible.!? Maybe he has just been repeating his fathers stuff so much he thinks that's all there is?

When the question was asked "Do you think I am a Christian. Do you think Christ is in me?" after Sye left..; the answer is simple. "NO!" Definativly Christ is not in Dave (not sure of name but the one who speaks all the languages.) It is quite simple to see this as well using the definition of the scriptures. Jesus said in Matthew when responding to the Pharisees on an argument "Have you not READ what God SPOKE to you saying...." The point being that Jesus's view of scripture was that it was the very voice of God speaking and held men accountable to it. This Dave guy then calls the same scripture evil and thus either denies the Lordship of Jesus or the revelation of God as confirmed by Jesus. You cannot claim to be one of Jesus's sheep if you do not recognize His voice or His Father's voice or the Spirit inspired scripture. That is the biblical answer.

For one brief moment after the older gent spoke to him,it looked like Eric knew the jig was up and he realized he had been wrong this entire time :(

Hi Crust, "using reason to understand reason" is not circular. Reason is a process not an argument structure; like looking at oneself to see oneself.

I dont know why people even bother with Sye all he does is assert his authority over and over. I'd rather see NephilimFree on that panel over Sye.

Funny to watch how big Eric's eyes get whenever his minion has to leave because of his childish argument. Eric's a lightweight parrot who just wants to appear just enough to make money from his Daddy's dishonest work.

13:20 "You're gong to toalk about things I have not studied" Does that mean that you don;t know what the bible says? Or does it mean that you want time to prepare a set of apologetic excuses to keep up the illusion that you believe in god, so your fans wil keep sending you money?

You admitt that you could be wrong and i don't, because i'm completely delusional. Therefore i win. seems legit

Sye the way we know our reasoning is valid is because your God claims that the earth is flat circle.

Eric Hovind is unwilling to say slavery is evil. Just think about that.

Silverman got roasted pretty bad. Good on you Sye 🙌🏽

When sye finally recognizes atheism its going to be hilarious!

I regret I ever got involved in religion.

Romans 1:18-33

Sye's game: Could you be wrong about everything? (Yes) Ah, then you've given up knowledge. You lose. (No) Oh, well, you're using reason to understand reason, and that's viciously circular. You lose. Rinse, repeat, claim victory, obvious troll is obvious.

Eric has serious Sygasms

Please can you tell me where I can see that?

Why even invite Presuppositionalists?

Who was that host? He's awesome!

You could be wrong about that.

He is. The Voice of Reason.

you know you lost when someone of your same faith ends up dismantling it

13:20 - Priceless.

Wooooow. Jeez

*chuckle*

To Sye "I could be wrong" means "I've given up knowledge" Huh...?? To everyone else it means "If I'm wrong, show me"

Tell Sye. ;-)

2 1/2*

Just because hovind and co. won't admit they could also be wrong doesn't mean they couldn't be. In fact they are. Asserting conviction doesn't make it true, evidence however does.

the words spoken from 9:23 to 10:56 are some of the best and most true words ever spoken about the Bible

Why finally stopped soft balling Sye and told him to leave? It sounds like Hovind but it's not. Who was it?

No.... that would mean you are a sociopath and have mental problems. Sigh.... I sigh for you and Sye.