Getting to make TWO Warhammer videos BACK TO BACK? Say it ain't so! In all seriousness, as a huge fan of Warhammer I love making this kind of stuff, and I'd like to extend another thank you to Toby for joining us on the video! If you want to see us break down more of the Warhammer universes, make sure to like the video and all that good stuff! ❤️
The best part about Tobias as an expert is he's not just critiquing the arms and armor from a historical perspective, he's putting it in context of a fantasy video game setting and taking that into account. It's so great to see.
The historical accuracy can be largely credited to Perry twins who designed and sculpted miniatures for Warhammer for over 35 years and are nuts about historical reenactment (one of them lost an arm while loading up a reproduction of a medieval cannon during a recreation of Battle of Crecy).
My favorite aspect of Warhammer Fantasy has always been how these various depictions of human cultures merge with their mythologies to do battle with your classic high fantasy dwarfs, elves, orcs, demons, and undead. It keeps a very fantastical setting grounded and makes it feel very lived in while still having dragons and magic.
@TaRAAASHBAGS While true, there's definitely too much emphasis on only bears. I wouldn't say it's a monumental loss compared to 5th and 6th and the models do look really good from the armor, uniforms, weapons,voice overs, magic, and it's been pretty universally accepted among the Eastern Europe fans from what I have been able to see from the online community.
What's even better is that it's supposed to be ran by two Skaven inside who are 'motivated' into running by absolutely _smothering_ them with warpdust.
@@leadpaintchips9461if you look closely at the in game model and the real life miniature, the bottom of the wheel has a bunch of giant rats in it. You can kind of see it in the clip. Sometimes the rats get irritated and attack the warlock engineer piloting it lol
That's why Jonathan is so respected amongst gamers, because he understands weapons logic, but also the gameplay aspect on why gun X was nerfed or gun y is imba.
Regarding Tobais's statements about how Warhammer doesn't bug him for having all this wild ornamentation and stuff: it's not just committing to the bit. It's about committing to being *fantastical*. Designs are meant to be reminiscent of real world history/armor, but real history doesn't have giant half-dragon half-ogres wielding clubs the size of minivans, so it's good to go all the way and embrace being a Heavy Metal album cover.
I think if you learn a bit about the universe and know that belief can be strength, all of a sudden the ornamentation starts to make a bit more sense. If you know that your devotion to Khorne can make you more powerful, attaching a few skulls to your armor might start seeming like a better idea.
@@kaythough9604 Yeah, it doesn't need to actually work, it just needs to make you believe that it does. Sure, you're probably going to get cleaved in half by a bloodthirster with or without an extra shiny armour, but in less severe cases, it might just save your life
and the ornamentaion is not arbitrary, but reflects a culture and history, and exaggerates it a bit. i feel a lot of fantasy games have overly designed armor and arms that have not sense of context or history, and subsequently end up looking bland or unreal.
Regarding the the gyrocopters: I recall from the Grudge of Drong campaign pack in the nineties that only Dwarf Brewmasters know how to make the fuel for gyrocopters, which would seem to indicate that it's alcoholic in some way. That said, oil is also a thing in Warhammer, as shown in the Gotrek and Felix series, but it's not very well understood, and only Dwarfs use it in any way.
It's implied that dwarfs will, in emergencies, use their extremely strong ale to power things. Though they seem to have an even stronger version that they use as fuel.
"Oil is for lubricating things, alcohol is for fueling things" might be the Dwarven way, with thier own bodies being no exception if they've taken sufficient cues from Tolkien type dwarfs ("a Dwarf's true friends are their flasks and tankards" sort of thinking). EDIT: Of course, this has real world precedent, Top Fuel Dragsters use fuel that is literally a specific blend of Nitromethane and Methanol (which despite being toxic, is an extremely high octane fuel in piston engines, and turbine engines will run on it too if the fuel pump and injectors can keep up with the higher fuel flow needed, or operate at a derated power level).
@@44R0Ndinin the game as dwarfs you can forge an enchanted item for your characters called Ironwarden’s Tankard, gives them “Immune to psychology” and healing when at high enough morale. So yeah, alcoholism sometimes helps.
I feel like I could watch Tobias talk about all the factions for well over an hour or two. He grasps the parallels and the understanding of necessary design without even seeing the cause for the effect; axe on a musket being needed when you are shooting at literal charging demons that can sometimes shrug off a round but are less receptive to an axe wound.
Axe muskets were a real thing. I visited the army museum in Paris, and there were two of those weapons. One was a halberd with multiple rifle barrels. And the other was a spear with three barrels around the spearhead. I don’t know if they were ever used, but maybe they were supposed to catch on armor, then fire into the knight. Although, the ones I saw had the barrels open to the blade of the axe or spear.
25:20 pretty sure those are Royal Pegasus Knights of Bretonnia, the reasons why they specifically don't carry bombs is because it goes against their troths and oaths and the knights consider ranged weaponry to be something only peasents use
Lorewise Bretonia is all about chivarly and ranged weapon are concidred "ungentlemany" and threted with disdain. There is also religious/social taboo about useing guns on bretonian soil. Their navy has a lots of cannons tho :D
I am super glad you have someone who knows the game side of the game explain the things happening on the screen, so that the professional is not confused.
The vampire counts are indeed modelled as basically dead Empire (Germanic) soldiers of various kinds. I have often wished they could get different models when they raise dead in different cultures. No need for a stat change just Bretonnian or Kislevite clothes/armour.
@caldwing theres a mod for undead factions that lets you raise skeletons themed after the faction you recently battled, and the ai uses it too. i attacked some undead who have been fighting dwarves and they had skeleton dwarves in their army edit: i just realized the others said it too lol
Just a nitpick, I would say HRE (Holy Roman Empire) and not Germanic, since ''Germanic'' can refer to a massive timespan and the HRE also included cultures like the Czechs and Sorbians that are Slavic and Walloons that are French but all used the same style of armour, fashion and weapons in the 16th centuary ☝🤓
His comment of about the dwarf weapons and armor feeling architectural and almost like tools reminded of how during ww2, the usa made their hand grenades closer to t he shape of a baseball so new recruits were more comfortable throwing them. I imagine a similar logic is used by the dwarves. If EVERYONE in your society knows how to swing a hammer from forging and building or knows how to swing an axe because of logging or again building and cutting wood, making your primary military arsenal out of those same types of shapes could be really useful for training.
@@Teslijah Yeah. They aren't dedicated warriors, they're actual miners going into battle with their tools. They can even use blasting charges as improvised grenades and get vanguard deployment to emulate them literally tunneling under the battlefield to come up where the enemy doesn't expect them.
@@screamingcactus1753 Well somehow most of the Dwarf Warriors are not dedicated Warriors. More like a Militia. If they were called to arms, the left everything behind, go to battle, and after the fight is over, they go back to whatever they were doing. But some are really Warriors like the Ironbreaker or Hammerers.
A lot of the older minis were sculpted by people who were into historical war games, especially Michael and Alan Perry (who now run Perry Miniatures). They were known for making things "historical" even when they were asked to make something more fantasy. The reason that the chaos dwarves are the way they are is that they were told, repeatedly to not make the hats historical. Make it more fantasy. And boy did they. I think the influence they've had on the aesthetic has carried over to things they never touched like Cathay and Kislev.
One of the reasons why Warhammer Fantasy appealed to me so much more than Age of Sigmar, as a world, was that Fantasy was much more anchored. It had ordinary spearmen and swordsmen, who were basically just regular people. Then you could BUILD FROM THAT to show how terrifying Chaos Chosen were, or Ogres or whatever. But with the launch of AoS, they kept all the attention on the Stormcast and others similarly exaggerated groups, like the new Ironjawz or the ghost guys or Fyreslayers, etc. so it all felt so disconnected from anything with verisimillitude. It was like slapping action figures together, there was no meat to it, imho. I'm glad Age of Sigmar has introduced setting-specific regular dudes now (I mean, they had the leftover Imperial models previously, but they never promoted them, obviously), so maybe I'll start feeling like it's not so theatrical.
I’d say listen or read the Slayer series with Gotrek as it does show more of the regular people and how stormcasts while good have their faults and can be killed by orcs or basically anything
Took Dr. Capwell pointing out the Skaven shield shape being non-human for me to think why they'd be that shape and they remind me of one of the Skaven symbols from Vermintide which might explain it
And if you think about it. Skaven shields being triangles makes more sense than not. Since it would cover most of their body, due to their prominent hunch, and the weight distribution wouldn’t be as bad for a skaven as say a Norman kite shield would be. If you have complaints on my grammar, I’m tired.
As for the Polish Hussars, it is believed that aside from their wings looking cool they also made a terryfying thundering sound when hundreds of hussars at once would charge on horseback.
there is quite a lot of discussion about it, I heard the thundering noise came from flags on lances, also Poland had amazing technology of... making longer sticks, hussar lances were allegedly way longer than any pikes commonly used on battlefields, also wings were attached to saddles, not rider backs and mostly for decorative purpose during parades etc, not on battlefields
In contemporary Polish history most scholars agree that those enormous wings were largely a ceremonial thing. When they had wings in battle it was usually a one, smaller wing on the back of the horse.
Capwell's artist side really comes through here. It's delightful to hear from someone who understands arms & armour well enough to know how form fits function, but who is enough of an artist to understand that the feelings evoked by how something is represented is the more important than direct plausibility in a game (especially in a fantasy setting). It's a perfect fusion of knowledge that makes the final analysis very insightful without being snobbish at all. More of him please!
23:02 He makes SUCH an excellent summary of the view I have on Fantasy, especially that bit about the lazy argument of "In fantasy you can do whatever you want".
19:36 I think the reason Stormvermin have triangular shields is because that's a "Symbol of the Horned Rat, which signifies not only the deity of the Skaven but also the Skaven race as a whole."
Fun fact about the goblins tied to the stones. They do that because it settles a grudge the dwarfs have against goblins and because the goblin screaming as it falls gives the same effect as a whistle on a dive bomber
one of my favorite things about playing kislev is the war bear riders are meant to fight in the frontlines like heavy infantry and your winged hussars are used for shock tactics. so i often use my bear riders to hold up chaos heavies and then come around and smash them with the hussars.
God i can't describe how much i love Grand Cathay's design/armors/unit style. The ancient chinese empire is just beautiful and i love the fact that this historian guy actually confirmed that all cathay units they showed him are totally accurated to ancient chinese armory/weapons❤️
Eh I commented on this topic - as an enthusiast of Chinese history (esp. Song/Ming), I was pleasantly surprised when the units were revealed. If anything they tend to be on the light side of what historical Song/Ming armies would have worn, but remain very close (including the collar piece he discussed about, although the IRL version was actually more advanced than the one shown for Cathay). Only drawback IMHO is the aesthetics of some of the gunpowder weapons, particularly the cannons and iron hail guns considering there were plenty of IMHO better-looking examples to pull from. I also find the Dragons a bit too "short", but I understand they may want to depart from the traditional representation.
@@RYUcaEU The word you're looking for is "verisimilitude" or "verisimilar" - which, as you may be able to tell just from reading it, describes something that while not *accurate* to reality, carries that feeling of accuracy in its own way :)
Having people like Toby Capwell and Jonathan Ferguson who respect and appreciate the Fantasical aspects and reasoning for the equipment and gear make it super fun to listen to their analysis of video game mechanics :) love seeing them featured.
Wow, I think Tobias finally captured what has bothered me about Age of Sigmar all this time. Old Warhammer Fantasy was of course fantasy, but it felt plausible. Age of Sigmar goes all in on the fantasy aspect and just doesnt feel quite as plausible anymore. The AoS models all look fantastic, but its just too much.
Lets be honest, AOS was made when the MCU was taking off, and GW just wanted to capitalize on that cash grab. Unfortunately it came at the cost of a much better setting. Warhammer fantasy is timeless and can stand on it's own because of how grounded it is, and the problem with cash grabs is they need to be constantly kept afloat or they sink fast.
I don't see what it has to do with the MCU. It's more to do with the fact that in 40K space marines outsell everything and they wanted more of that. They just didn't care that it doesn't really fit in a fantasy setting. It's actually worse than 40K as at least they have the Imperial guard to compare against.
@@grimalkin8082 AOS has absolutely nothing to do with the MCU. The GW suits were trying for years to put Space marines into WFB because they sold like crazy, they didn't care that it was out of place, cue the Sigmarines. GW were also very protective of their IP and coming out of their lawsuit loss to Chapterhouse (or at least not the crushing defeat they wanted), so they basically nuked the un-copyrightable Old World and rebranded everything with silly copyrightable names like Orruks.
Soooooo many game developers, movie directors, manga and comic artists, they could learn a lot of incredibly important points just from watching this video. Tobias does such an incredible job of explaining how fantasy and reality can, and often should, be interwoven to make it feel more natural.
Yeah, the guy does articulate a lot of the things I like about Warhammer that I haven't seen done as effectively in other settings. That sense that even some of the wackier elements have a purpose and a context to them, that the cultures have their own ways of thinking, their own ways to solve problems.
I have always apreciated grounded fantasy. I often found them more compelling than ones that go completely out there. I think its a real show of skill when creators can pull off such effective suspension of disbelief.
There’s one thing I really love about Sylvania and it’s that it’s derived as much from actual Romanian history as it is from the mythology of vampires. For instance, one of the order of blood knights in Sylvania are called the Order of the Blood Dragons. They were inspired by the real life Order of the Dragon which Vlad Dracul, father of Vlad Tepes (aka Dracula), was a part of. I don’t really get that with a lot of other vampire myth interpretations.
I didn't really expect much going into this video. Fantasy Armour, especially Warhammer, is so fantastical that I thought a historian couldn't give much input or would be put off by the material. However this video was surprisingly really enjoyable, Tobias observations about the nature of armaments, design and his little tangent on appreciating the scale of the game were very entertaining. I liked that you kept the little exchanges between the producer and the historian in the video as well, very good content.
My favorite thing so far is that he talls about how similar the lore and such to actual design and structure when the makers of Warhammer have said "we love to steal from history"
The fact you comment and inform him on the units , their names a little Lore helps the reaction so much since it gives context. Makes the experience so much more enjoyable.
Love lizardmen ptero riders. They do do bombardments, just with *massive rocks*. They famously killed Belakor with rocks in a White Dwarf after action report
I'd definitely love to see Toby's take on the various elven factions, especially the High Elves. Curious to see what he might have to say about the really tall helmets.
Always nice to see Tobias talking about Fantasy elements, while understanding that they're fantastically historical in a way. ( Also nice to see my comment from last time helped with the camera work ;p )
To be fair, Chaos Armour is magical and it adapts to an mutation and/or change that occurs in the wearer. So if a warrior grow a horn or something else, his armour will change to accomodate it.
This man who never played this game ever encaptures exactly what we love about Warhammer fantasy and what Warhammer tries to convey. Loved this video with him as usual!
I think the reason why the departure from realism makes so much sense to him, is because we don't know how armor and weapons would work in this world. Spiked armor and horned helmets, for instance, might make perfect sense if you fight flying enemies and enemies with bodies which force them to compromise in their armor design and so on. You can't point at something in particular and say "that won't work" because you can't know for certain, since this world and its physics work so differently from our own. And as he said, if there's a logic behind the choice, and that logic is consistent throughout, it lends itself to the plausibility of every piece of equipment. It's nice to see him open to this and commenting based on the premise of the game, while adding lots of interesting historical stuff. The idea of a "man catcher" is so much more interesting as a real world, historical weapon than the rat holding it ingame. I'd never known about it otherwise.
@17:19 Yes we do have quite an extensive library of historical literature at Creative Assembly, it's a collection made up largely of recommendations given by our historical consultants over the years.
This was a great video. The expert explained things really well, but was open minded about the fantasy setting and viewing it for what it is. Really agree with his argument about fantasy still needs to be grounded. Absolutely great take!
16:31 regarding the purpose, it was twofold as far as I recall - first was to instill terror in the enemies, as the sound of such an amount on feathers created a disorienting humming noise, and the second, more practical, was to foil any attempt at dragging the rider off the horse by using anything akin to a lasso, mainly then used by ottoman janissaries, which was one of the most feared units of that period - it was said the wings caused the noose to slide off much more easily, or even "catch" an incoming one entirely, when mounted to the saddle instead of the back of the soldier.
Just before the 5 minute mark (starting around 4:49) he inadvertently gives the entire game away in regards to the Warhammer universe; "It's like they're so committed to what they're doing...there are no half-measures." That's essentially the ethos behind all of Warhammer.
I love the historical context for the factions of warhammer. Its really fascinating seeing where the designs pulled influence from the real world, and further explains the factions geological locations too since the map mirrors the real world in a way.
I'm so glad we've reached the era where a video about historical accuracy can have an expert that ACKNOWLEDGES that fantasy involves imagination and creative license.
Love his positivity and fairness. So many of these reactions with experts in general have a person who knows what they're talking about, but only talk about how unrealistic the aspects they're reacting to are. Shooting something down for not being realistic or having fun with the ridiculousness of the idea have such a huge impact on the entertainment factor of a reaction.
The heart of Warhammer Fantasy's early days was cultivated by a bunch of history-loving individuals, so the realism isn't surprising even though it has been many years of iteration since.
I love this guy, best conclusions, and viewpoints I've ever heard on all of this so far. And an emphasis on it being believable, and internally consistent - But not necessarily exactly like the RL of our world. Chef's kiss, great review.
I wish you had more info on the exact backstory and mythology of these factions while explaining these things because it goes so much deeper. Like small things like Kieslev has 4 major elements that are represented in their culture - The Forests (winters are cold in Kislev and you have to rely on hunting and firewood) - The Steppes (Many Kislevians live in extremely remote areas and horses are a vital part of their culture) - The Ice (Which is seen as a protective force and a natural part of life) - The Bears (Russia) The Skaven love Triangles because it is their holy symbol Dwarven warmachines are run on alcohol.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in addition to the game's merits, many of the visual elements are well thought out, as the company that made them was originally designed to make tabletop miniatures, so much of this must have a good amount of thought put into it.
I find it funny that you said about the lead bullets with curse words when talking about the skavens when they are one of the greatest enemies of the dwarfs, aand the dwarfs are the ones that write their grudges on the stones to throw with their grudge throwers
I love when the expect GETS it Who appreciates the homework done on the reality in the fantasy. And someone who can appreciate the directions and choices behind the departure
Fun fact! There are historical examples of "axe guns", although they were not widely spread because they were kind of more of a "hey look at this novel idea" rather than the simpler solution of "put a bayonet on the end of your musket and now you have a short spear."
The Skaven triangular shields make perfect sense, because the rats are hunched over they need different kind of cover, it's like the scene in 300 with the deformed dude trying to lift up his shield to cover himself :)
For people wondering wings on husars were used as psychological warfare and the noise they made in charge gave enemy inpresion of biger force than size of unit. Usualy it resultet in enemy routing because they thought that they were outnumberded. Also you need to remember that dust that rose in charge never alowed to indentyfy husars unit size by sight.
would like to see Toby review on the armors in Kingdom Come Deliverance next, be it the armor sets you find in the game or the armor of npcs scattered across it or generally any fun facts about the medieval time period of it. Even a review by the HEMA expert of combat gameplay and swords for the game is welcomed😊
Isn't one interpretation of the wings on the hussars about them appearing taller and imposing. Also one theory says that the wings flapping in the wind would make a sound, to either intimidate because the sound would announce the arrival of the elite cavalry. A less plausible interpretation being that the noise of the wings was supposed to scare the other horses with the horses of the winged hussars being used to the flapping of the wings
