My great-grandfather was an "Capitão" in the Battle of La Lys. In that morning his company (companhia in portuguese) lost about 72 men and he shot down 3 german before having to retreat and taking with him one of the Mauser Vergueiro (thats what we call it in portugal) with the Carlos I monogram inserted in there. That weapon "belonged" to a neighbour of his who was a "1º Sargento", he tried to ofer ti to his wife but she refused and then he brough the Mauser and stored it. Today is in my house, belonging to my father. Thanks for this in depht revision. Orgulho Português! (Portuguese pride in portuguese) Keep it going! Hope for more shows about portuguese rifles!
19th century weapons in Portugal are considered vintage/historical firearms therefore no special permit is required to own one. However finding one Kropatschek or any firearm of this time period in good condition, that isn't completely expensive is another story. Incredibly rare and "unicornical" but doable.
In Norway we have the same. Firearms pre 1890 is considered antiques and no permit is required. I have 4 Portuguese Kropatschek rifles and i would like to get more, but they are rarely seen for sale. Is it possible to find online from Portuguese sites?
Terribly sorry for the late reply! Personally, i've tried looking for ones available for purchase, although all i could find was private auctions, and those went for hefty prices, so i'm guessing we are not that lucky :/
The Portuguese knew how to pick rifles. Beautiful rifle there, I tend to find the Mauser/Mannlicher/Schlegelmich looking rifles to be the most beautiful. Except for that Serbian carbine on the wall. I must have one, it's gorgeous.
Very interesting rifle. I just bought a 1904/39. But man, was it troublesome to get it here...The package with the rifle dissappeared in the shipping process and it took 27 days for the postal service to find the package. It turned out that my name and address had fallen off the package, and it was sent to a place where they keep lost packages...They finally found the rifle by opening the package and comparing it with pictures online of the rifle I bought. When they had confirmed that it was the same rifle, it was finally sent to me. I thought someone had stolen it and started to freak out. But now the rifle is finally here. It's a really interesting and unique design, I am a big fan of both Mauser and Mannlicher. This is like 2 rifles in one. This is what happens if a Mauser and a Mannlicher makes a baby.
Another triumph! Seriously, prior to finding you guys I thought I knew something about Great War Weapons, but now I realize I know squat! I am learning so much from the pair of you and your team. Also, the videos are not just dull information, they are entertaining, full of wit and Mae's wistful little smile following her shooting is the icing on the cake. It makes me smile. Additionally, her point by point critique on the handling of each weapon is a great addition to the overall study of the weapon. Bravo!
Many, many years ago; when I was 11 to 14 years of age. I had the chance to get to know 5 grandfatherly gentlemen that were, to me, the coolest guys ever. They had the coolest one of a kind weapons, shooting the least available ammunition. Or, using explosives (plastic?) to cut USN, US ARMY, USMC or USAAF initials into armor plate at their testing facility outside my hometown. when "Doc" showed me how I could drop trees w/these "cutting charges" ; the rest of the guys would just tell me that "Doc" was showing off with "his invention". Then they would show me how to make my own jacketed bullets using different dies and different materials. They taught me how to make my own jacket bullets for the 6.5 Portuguese that Dr. Lathrop had given me. Mr. Bushmill had given me the dies and the data to load my own ammo for my 6.5 Portuguese. These gentlemen in a forty month period taught me a lot about military weapons from the 1870's thru to the Korean war periods. They had examples of just about every small arm that had been developed/used by every government from the late 1870's thru the Korean War. I learned about the potato digger, Vickers, Maxim, Lewis, Browning, Madsen, Browning, MG-15's, 34, 42, the French, Italian and the "commie cock sucker stuff" to.
I think it was Michelle Moyd who observed that German forces in Africa basically rearmed themselves almost entirely with Portuguese weapons by 1917 because their supply of German ammunition was pretty much exhausted. As that was around 15,000 soldiers, I can see many thousands of these rifles being consumed by the Germans before they finally surrendered. That could account for quite a lot of the missing weapons.
25:06 Little correction here: On October 5, 1910, the last king of Portugal was overthrown along with the monarchy, but João Franco wasn't in government at the time. In fact Franco's dicatorial regime, which lasted only a few months, ended with his resignation on February 1, 1908, after the assassination of the king D. Carlos I and his son, the crown prince D. Luís Filipe. Anyway, this was a very informative video as always. Keep up the good job, guys!
Hi Othais, I inherited one of these, a 1904 model, from my father. A while back I passed it on to my son. We only have 10 cartridges left which my father bought during the sixties for R1.75. It is marked on the box. Here in South Africa we cannot get hold of the cartridges anymore. Here they call it the Portuguese Mauser. It has the Carlos I monogram but not the Union of South Africa stamp. On the left it has the insignia ESPINGARDA PORTUGUEZA 6.5 MOD.1904 and DEUTCHE WAFFEN-UND MUNITIONSFABRIKEN BERLIN He was thinking of converting it to the 6.5x55 swedish caliber since the ammo is very available. Should he do that or must he leave it as original. I was always wondering what the C I monogram stood for, now I know. Thanks guys.
It would be nice when you guys have the time, if you both would each let viewers know your respective top 10 WWI rifles & the reasons why. Perhaps when you've completed WWI you could squeeze it in. Great video as allways & looking forward to your next video. Keep up the great work PS Its fascinating how many countries actually had their weapons developed @ the Tula arsenal @ the time rather than domesticley, am suprised how much came out of Tula on top of Mosin Nagant production. Lastly a Very Merry Christmas to you both
I happen to own a UDF marked 1904, its interesting to note that many of the 12 million rounds sent to South Africa for the invasion of German South West Africa in 1914, were defective, brass was split and bullets fell out the cases - not a good thing when in combat. They did see some action with the UDF but ultimately were swapped out for Long Lee's and SMLE rifles as soon as possible.
I read that the cutout on the receiver was done during refurbishment process when it was reconfigured for 8 mm Mauser. They claim it was done to allow the cartridge to fit. But, I see that was wrong as that cutout exists on the 1904 version. Interesting how wrong information can be passed along.
Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Bah Humbug, Murry Yiffmas, and all that guys. Was a real fun episode to watch and I think I can already guess what Mae is going to think of the 8mm Mauser version. With the benefit of hindsight one has to wonder what would have happened if the Portugeze had made that 6,5mm round a spitzer right off the bat though.
A little late to the party, but just wanted to say what a fantastic video this was. 👍 I've got a Vergueiro 6.5x58 #416 and I'm just in the process of getting some ammo for it. This video really delved into how this rifle was developed and I really appreciate the all research done. Great job!
lucky 21... im early for once post view edit: as to rarity of un-monkeyed with examples, it actually breaks down pretty easily. we have 100k produced. 20k wander off into "non standard" hands, leaving 80k. 67k+ get converted to short rifle 8mm, leaving 13k, or 1/8 total production. over a span of 30 years, 13k attrition is actually quite admirable. it would have to include stuff like drill rifles, ones bent into pretzels by use as a crowbar, loss to accidental fires, plane crashes, boats sinking, etc. all that beyond combat losses. so the fact that an original markings only example exists at all is actually just this side of miraculous.
There where 3 types of manliker, the rifle that you shou, the navy carabine and the cavalry carabine (the difference where in the bolt). They still use by the boys and girls of " Colégio Militar"
Although I have a 1904/39, I think this is a wonderful sorce of information on a resent purchase that I am completely smitten with. I do want a 1904 but I think the hunt will be long and hard. Thanks for the great video.
Stacy Brown Believe it or not, this one came off of gunbroker a few years back for under $500. They do not turn up often, but are most I have seen were well undervalued for the relative scarcity.
GrasCollector I only learned of them in May of this year. I went on GB and bid on the one I have almost immediately. It came with an original sling and is in great shape. Very nice to shoot. I will enjoy the hunt for the 6.5. That is what collecting is all about.
Yea!!! I was getting worried. You guys do amazing work. I love the depth of information your videos provide and the humor of your delivery. Keep doing what you do, we are all thankful.
Kevin Collver ....yes. For many of us, it’s the closest we’ll ever come to looking down the barrel of these guns. I also feel it could be a very important feature for us, the viewers, to gain more affinity with these wonderful weapons and the men who used them.
26:40 "I'm so sorry Portugal but you guys got nailed twice!" ...possibly three times, if you consider the 1885 Guedes. Nothing to do with the Great War but, coincidentally, another Portuguese rifle that was sold to South Africa.
Vi todo o documentário, contudo a Mauser Vergueiro 6,5 foi reaberta para o calibre 7,9, calibre este que se tornou mais popular nos anos 30/40 ( e participou na guerra do Ultramar 1961/1974), a mesmas carabinas Vergueiro tinham "orelhas", no ponto de mira frontal ( e não despida, como foi exibida) e com a inscrição CARLOS I (o ultimo Rei de portugal) o que indica que estas foram fabricadas pela DW em ano anterior a 1910 (ano de implantação da Republica, 05-10-1910), a demais foram anteriores ou posteriores, o que não tem o mesmo valor. É utilizada actualmente como arma honorifica na Guarda nacional Republicana em Portugal (representações a chefes de estado e funerais)
Hello Othais and Mae, great episode again! I was really looking forward to this as I own a 904/39 and was really interested in the original form of this rifle and how it compares. The only thing that concerns me a little bit is that the Vergueiro did not make it into the top 10. I just don't get it. As Mae said, it is better than the Mannlichers and the G98. As you mentioned the 1912 (which was used by the Austrians as the 1914 and is thus part of the Great War), I also think it is slightly better than the Vergueiro because of the gas mitigation and the excellent 7mm cartridge (probably the best round of WW1). However, I do not see any way to come up with TEN rifles that trump the Vergueiro! I can only think of the 1912 Mauser, the Lee Enfield maybe, the P14 and US Model of 1917 for sure, the 1903 Springfield and the Swiss K11. The carcano carbines might be nice shooting and handy but their lack of reliability and crudeness blows them out of the top 10 for sure!
The portuguese ordered 40.000 of them, thought that they sucked and changed the order after getting ony 8.000 to Kropatscheks. Later Steyr sold 20.000 that they already had produced for Portugal to the Boers. What's so cool about Guedes Rifles? They are just Peabody-Martini's in 8mm.
At the end you should have brought up the Kar98a instead of the Gew98. Some of the best mauser sights I've ever seen, and much lighter. Although from what I remember, the one you used had a pretty rough bolt and fairly stout recoil, so that really affected her opinion of it.
@Fritz Fritzl Santa hears the declaration and says, "Dear gosh! It has finally happened. The proficiency has come to fruition. War has been officially been declared on Christmas." He leans to an elf to say, "Alert the child soldiers." The elf radios the secret code word message on TV globally. All the child sleeper cells are triggered by the phrase once watching it, and flick to their brain washed K.G.B. style super soldier mode. Before the elf cuts off he says, "Remember your training..." ;) Merry Christmas haha.
Othias, you say the Portuguese could not use the 6.5x54 Mannlicher cartridge for some reason. There were 4 other rimless 6.5s either in military or commercial service: 52 Carcano (the first 6.5), 54 Mauser, 57 Mauser and the 55 Swedish. I find it interesting they opted for a totally new proprietary cartridge rather than one of these. In my opinion, the 6.5x58 should not exist at all.
With the exception of Finland adopting Russian 7.62mm, 7mm Mauser in Central and South America and 9mm Parabellum, most militaries opted for their own ammunition unique to them before the 1950s. It was done for national pride in many cases. However, it was also useful to have a controlled ammunition to make it hard for people to turn your own guns against you in an uprising. If only the military has the ammunition, then only the military can use the guns. Handy when fighting rebels that they can only get guns and ammo by fighting for it, rather than just buying up stock piles from elsewhere.
Excellent episode. Thank you. 1. Is the "Greater than" sign correct, (5 min:38 sec) and specifications were for more than 7.72 lbs? 2. I inherited 6.5 x 58 from family member, while living in South Africa, in 1996. Thank you for providing this history of the rifle. There were many 6.5 x 58 rifles stored in attics because they were not registered after military use, which might explain why they were not converted. 3. At 29:54 minutes in the video: Lorenzo Marques is now named "Maputo", city in Mozambique. It was pronounced La-Ren-Zo Marks.You can google "Maputo" to understand the regional geography and political influences. 4. What book are you referring to, with the author providing your information during the video? 5. Putting the bolt together again is enough to give you grey hairs - I know, I took mine apart, once. Then took a bag of parts to German gunsmith for re-assembly :)
I have a 1904/39 matching numbers including bayonet in 7.92x57. I'm staggered they're not 'collectable', given their quality and history. Here in Australia, maybe $400-500.
I have a 6.5x58. Great rifle but due to no ammo availability, I don't shoot it. Have had ammo made but can no longer reload them as can't find a reloading die, so don't want to waste the ask I have.
@@flavio_spqr Not a rifle... A service revolver. The Abadie--French designer, Belgian manufacture, Portuguese issue M1886 9mm revolver. Portugal used the Savage "10 shots quick" semi-auto pistol in WWI.
@@flavio_spqr Obrigado você! De nada... Some sources claim that after the 1910 overthrow of the monarchy--and assassination of Carlos I with a Winchester self-loading rifle, profiled by Othais and Mae elsewhere for its WWI use--the M1886 revolver fell out of use... The officer's model 1878 may have continued in use, however. Something like 1,000 plus Model 1907 7.65mm/.32 cal. Savage semi-automatic pistols were acquired by Portugal. My sense is that many of these would have been used by the CEP on the Western Front. Othais and Mae did a great episode on that pistol, which may be found in French small arms, since France was far and away the larger user. Até logo/Chau.
As is the norm an excellent video. I find it interesting that people tend to compare other rifle cartridges against the 7.92 Mauser , 303 British an American 30 ball m1906 all of which for the most part are realistically the very top end of power that a shoulder arm can use in a bolt action platform. The 6.5 Portuguese generates 2000 foot-pounds of energy 6.5 Creedmoor producers 2300 foot-pounds of energy I don't think there's anyone or at least not many who would think the 6.5 Creedmoor is a under-powered cartridge.
Thanks for your comment, I too find the effectiveness/hitting-power comparisons interesting. Especially when other well-known names are added to the comparison. Examples worthy of comparison might include: 7.62x39 @ about 1600ft/lbs, 5.56 NATO @ about 1300 ft/lbs, .300 Blackout @ about 1350ft/lbs, 6.5x50 Arisaka @ about 1960 ft/lbs, 6.5x55 @ 2100+ ft/lbs, 6.5x 52 Carcano @ somewhere between 2300 and 2600 ft/lbs, 7.62 NATO @ around 2500 ft/lbs, .303 British @ 2400 ft/lbs... [All figures come from Wikipedia (sorry!), please correct them if you have better references]
The Portuguese currency at the time of adoption was the Real(1430-1911), after the revolution the currency changed to the Escudo in 1911 until Portugal adopted the Euro as it's currency in 2002.
I have recently acquired one of these rifles and with mine there us this one locking screw that won't budge so can you tell me how I should go at it me and my dad managed to get every other screw loosened but this one on the trigger gaurd plate so what should I do
Being Portuguese.. just about every family lost somone in WW1 and subsequently, Africa. Have to understand that the majority of the Portuguese population were illiterate (say) by 1917 and farming, fishing rural communities.. take Madeira. Weapons and machinery had to be basic. Kind regards, Paulo Sousa PAF (Happily retired)
Recently Indonesian Army recovered a Verguiero rifle from East Nusa Tenggara/East Timor border. Yeah Verguiero rifle have fought for both sides during East Timor unrest. Pro-Integration militias and FRETILIN both utilize Verguiero rifle along with G3.
I had a Vergeiro Rifle,wasthe shortend down one.DWM,slicest bolt action Rifle,I have ever had,well after a Mannlicher - Schoenauer.Yes it was in 8mm Mauser,the 1904 / 39 version..
If everything goes as I dream, I'm going to move to Portugal (to be more specific, Funchal Madeira). So I'm truly fascinated by the information of the military history of my future home land.
The Portuguese preference for long shots is interesting and completely understandable given their views on other forms of armed combat. The Portuguese fencing style is called la verdadera destreza; "the true skill" or "the true art". Its precepts are based on reason, geometry, and tied to an intellectual, philosophical, and moral ideals, incorporating various aspects of a well-rounded Renaissance humanist education, with a special focus on the writings of classical authors such as Aristotle, Euclid, and Plato.
I've got a 1904 in 7mm. Full size rifle (not later Carbine). only has Proof Marks on the Mid upper left side of the receiver. No Crest on top. Rear sight is Marked C. 7 mm on the side of the base. Don't know if this is one of the Brazilian 1904 sent i 1910 or a Salesman Sample used for that Purpose. Serial number A14xx. No markings on Stock other than serial numbers or on the Metal of the Rifle. Other tan the DWM info on the left side of the Bridge.on the left side.
Tried a Viguero bolt on a gewehr 88 as the bolts are so hard to find. Too long. Doesent work, though the bolt head fits. Next, im trying a dutch 1895 and some of the others in the gewehr 88 family. Somethings got to work. Yes hanyangs are exactly the same so they work perfectly, but try and find one now.
Wow that was something that I never knew that I cared in the slides. But like usual great video. And this time I don't use it to go to sleep 🤣 Keep the great work going. And you should do something with "Gun Jesus" again or maybe whit BOTR
I have a Portuguese Vegueiro that the bolt is stuck halfway in after I tried to install it. It will not go in or out now. Halfway in stuck. How can I UN stick the bolt??
