Don, you did an excellent job recovering that record player. It looks great! But I agree the sound leaves something to be desired. OTOH it was no hi-fi originally.
Hi Don. Very nice restoration and I think the colours really suit it's vintage. When using a mono cartridge to play stereo records you get a cancellation effect so all you hear is the difference between left and right channels. If you can find a stereo ceramic cartridge that fits and simply connect left and right channels together you will get a much fuller sound.
Very interesting Don, as are all your videos. Cher was really sounding her age on that player. Best wishes for 2024 to you and yours, we spent the afternoon watching some of the fireworks from Oz, very spectacular.
The ECL80 has a pentode with high distorsion (10%) with Va = 250 V, and its triode is not linear even at 250 V. The only way to have a lower distorsion is to put another stage of amplification and a lot of feedback around the ECL80. The ECL80 was made for turntables but it gives a bad sound and little power. But they needed only 2 tubes. In 1965 I made an amplifier to add stereo for the radio receiver and I used an EABC80 and an EL84 (as in the radio) and it had a better sound. Output tubes on radios of the '60 were EL84 pentode, with more power and a little less distorsion. Moreover, most of the large radios of this time had feedback.
Hi Don, good video once arain. The vertical idler wheel axle adjustment seems to help with wow as it did in your case in about halving it. It's a good adjustment to keep in mind. I have no idea what cartridge is fitted but 9gm does seem too heavy, you can confirm it by looking up the specs for it if there are any. It seems the Cher has recovered thanks to your homage to her recent passing. Remember... I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you 👍👍😄😄
Hi David. Yes several people have informed me of Cher's miraculous recovery. A I have said elsewhere I feel like a total goose. I'm going to have a go at using RU-vid's primitive editor to cut that bit out. I say lots of stupid stuff but I usually pick them up when editing! I'll have another look at the stylus pressure. Another way might be to keep lightening it until it skips the lead out groove, then add a bit. The adjustment is very primitive though. Cheers
Good thing you got a correct tube and checked the soldered joints too. There's seems to be a slight distortion from the speaker however. Probably a wire to it isn't connected properly or it has a cone rub. Only happening at certain frequencies and sounds like feedback or vibration. Might have to look into that. The HMV amplifier C1 is for it's day a good one.
Hi. I thought so too. The speaker cone isn't rubbing but it could be a bad solder. I was also thinking about that 330k resistor that looked original, which I replaced with a 470k as per the schematic. From memory, that will affect the pentode grid bias. I was also playing old, damaged records. Another problem with this video is my microphone died half way through (ok it fell on the floor and I trod on it) so I finished the video using a cheapo unbranded lapel mic which has its own issues. I'm waiting for a new Rode mic to arrive by snail mail. Cheers
I think the lady who brought it back was just experiencing a case of buyer's regret. The speeds you were getting with that 65-70 year old deck were darned near perfect. Less than a third of a percent is pretty darn good. It's far better than the modern Chinese plastic decks by a fair amount. The whole "perfect pitch" thing sounds like a load of hooey to me...
I noticed when you first played Louis Armstrong the speed was inconsistent. Might be why the lady returned it as slow.... You've done such a great job restoring this and making it as good as it can be.
Hi Brendan. Yes I noticed that when playing back the video. Probably idler wheel slippage. It does seem better now however following Dave Tipton's suggestion I'll have another look at the stylus weight - see if I can get it to shut off satisfactorily at a lower weight. Cheers
I recall these types of record players being in our school 🏫 in 1978. I cannot remember if they were still there when I went back to school 🏫 there in 1987, but they were FANTASTIC record players. They beat a modern Crosley of today. I don’t know 🤷♀️ if the cartridges on these are ceramic or magnetic 🧲. Your friend, Jeff.
Hi Jeff, They were certainly better than the new Crosleys and not bad overall. The best record player I ever restored was the Pye Black Box. That thing was awesome! These all had ceramic cartridges. Cheers
That looks like 👍 a classroom record player. I remember these when I went to school 🏫 many years ago. It is sad 😞 that schools 🏫 no longer use them. This looks like 👍 it’s a tube type model. Radiotvphononut has worked on quite a few of these in his history of radio 📻 resurrections. The cartridge needle 🪡 sounds pretty 😍 hot 🥵. Your friend, Jeff.
Hi Jeff, We had similar ones when I was at school but I think they were a later model. They were still tube types though. I do remember listening to records in music class and thinking it didn't sound very good, even back then.
When you mentioned your tone arm scales were from a local dealer, I missed the point until you referred to local weighing operations 😂😂. Enjoyed the video and the final fix
Well done Don. I think the sound is exactly what it should be. We're spoiled with today's HIFI quality. I always remind myself how crappy it sounded back in the day with hindsight. Also, I don't believe that even new, it spun at exactly 33.3rpm lol
Hi. Yes I think it's as good as it's going to get. It's easy to forget what was considered acceptable in the 50's and even '60s. By contrast though, a lot of the radios from that era sound very good. I think the lady that returned it had unrealistic expectations of a vintage record player. I do like the cabinet though and I might keep it and see if I can find a better amp to put in it.
@@Donno308 Hi Don just a thought you are playing stereo record on this turntable with mono cartridge that would degrade sound quality sound tinnier just a thought lol. Anyway great video mate keep it coming kind regards George.
@@geokiss Hi George. Yes you have a point. The various ways of wiring a stereo cartridge for mono also tend to degrade the sound quality somewhat. Hard to find a mono vinyl record these days but I notice that this machine sounds very good playing 78's
The rubber on the idler is shot. Just because it’s soft doesn’t mean it’s fine. The edge was shinier than one of Shane Warne’s cricket balls. That’s why you’re losing literally 4/10ths rpm just by putting the stylus on a record, which is crazy. Great electrical work though.
Thanks for the tip. I'll have another look at that idler wheel. It might be worth buying a new one. I'm planning to build a better amp for it (when I get time) as I've never been happy with the sound quality.
Your lack of output is due to your cartridge Don. The original was a red coloured BSR TC8H (high output) and the one you fitted was a brown BSR TC8M (medium output). If you wish to carry on with the TC8M, you would need a preamp module, but bear in mind that neither cartridge is compatible for stereo records. There are plenty of cheap chinese ceramic cartridges that sound a lot better than the old BSR crystals that are of the medium output range. Fit one of those with the preamp and your difference would be night and day.
Hi Paul. I have one of those Chinese ceramic cartridges and I tried it out. Even without the preamp it sounds much better. I’m thinking of building a preamp for it though. The only thing is you lose the ability to play 78s, but not many people would use it for that anyway.
What a coincidence! I only watched part 1 & 2 last week and now you release an update on this turntable. Cute record player, but indeed a case of technically not really worth the effort. But hey, I also like restoring things which aren't considered collectible. There's always something to learn and/or interesting to talk about. About the bass: Since it's such a simple circuit, I guess this amplifier doesn't implement the standard RIAA equalization curve. That might explain the lack in bass on more modern records.
Hi Kristof, No there doesn't seem to be any specific RIAA compensation in this amp, although there is a .05 uf cap from the pentode plate to ground, which is bigger than you would usually use to damp oscillation etc, so it might play some role in reducing the treble. I did tack a small capacitor across the input - maybe it was a .022 - I don't remember, but it made a small difference to the sound. I could play with it a bit & see if I can improve it. In the end though, I doubt that much can be done to improve its performance. Maybe I'll find a better amp and replace the old one altogether.
@@Donno308 Yes, but if you would find a way to add extra bass, it might cause vibration issues with the record playback. A record player with a built-in speaker will always be quite limited in its possibilities.
Don, i have gone round and round in circles trying to make simple one valve record player sound better. I have come to the conclusion that it's Crap!! ha ha :-D The ceramic pickup is a large part of the problem, lower output and the rubbery bridge can get hard and lose some bass content, but the treble gets through. The speaker coupling cap could have lost some capacitance and the bass is weaker. I could be talking crap lol :-D That rubber jocky wheel might have lost a tiny bit of diameter, smaller wheel rotates faster. Smashing video Don :-D
I have gone around in far too man circles with this one. I like the look of it though. I wouldn't mind "hot rodding" it - fit a quality vintage turntable, a good amp and a shoehorn a couple of better speakers into the cabinet.
@@Donno308 I agree, a good quality refurbished with quality components - it would showup those crappy _Crosley_ players! (A fellow Aussie here BTW mate!)
Hi Tarstarkusz, Yes I’ve been thinking the same thing. After all that work re_ covering it with Tolex I think it deserves something better. I’m just waiting for the right amplifier & turntable to come along.
@@Donno308 It turned out really nice, especially considering what poor condition it was in. You did a very nice job and it's a shame to see it not perform that well. It was probably not a great performer when new.
HMV players may well sound a bit "tinny" due to the speakers EMI used(they made their own). I had a HMV Minigram as a kid and, quite apart from bad design(the player was effectively turned completely off or on as you changed records, the start/stop button turned the amplifier *and* motor off and on, plus the amplifier was fastened to the underside of the plinth, directly underneath the platter, which was metal, so when the amplifier valves got hot, that heat was transferred to the platter, with a narrow rubber circular piece protecting the record from the hot platter. This model I had was British-made as it had a pop-up spindle adaptor, intended for the British market but having an Australian-standard power plug and cord fitted at EMI's plant in the Sydney suburb of Homebush.
Yes I think they were a compromised design to start with. The one valve amplifier was itself a compromise and had a limited audio bandwidth. Combined with very average speaker in an awkward cabinet space the results were, shall we say, ordinary.
@@Donno308 What I used to do with the Minigram was wire a big 12-inch speaker out of an old radiogram across the terminals of the pitiful inbuilt speaker. I'd house the big 12-inch speaker in a cardboard box. I got a more gutsy sound that way.
@@top40researcher31 The loudspeaker is the last part of a record player's or radio's circuitry and is potentially the weakest link. The amplifier, be it transistorised or vacuum-tube, is capable of delivering a great sound, but if coupled with an inferior speaker, you may as well be playing your records on a toy gramophone.
@@top40researcher31 I wish you'd read *properly* what I wrote. I said *"whether transistorised or vacuum-tube".* And I was referring to the *speaker* being the "weakest link."
Thanks Neil. I've heard good things about DaVinci Resolve. If I decide to make the change, though, I think I would run both concurrently until I'm confident enough to go with the new one exclusively. Thinking about it, I think I will stick with the iphone for the video. It seems to work well for what I want. I do need to remember to lock the focus though - I have found that my hand or arm often pulls the focus off the chassis. Besides, new cameras would be a bit of an investment. Anyway, thanks for the info
If I had one of these, I'd get a second amplifier and a replacement stereo pick-up cartridge and convert this to stereo, replacing the volume and tone pots from single to dual-ganged, then get two speakers for external boxes while wiring the internal speaker to be in parallel with the negative side of the output, effectively creating a phantom centre channel.
I had a few ideas along those lines. One idea is to fit a better quality stereo amp and make a pair of matching speakers, covered with the same colour Tolex. Another idea was a really good mono amp, upgraded turntable and a decent speaker fitted into a detatchable lid.
@@Donno308 Some players like this were stereo(and included an AM-radio) and used BSR's UA8 autochanger turntable(or perhaps a Colaro, and in some instances a Garrard). The second speaker was held in the lid with a kind of clip. The controls were generally On/Off-Volume, Tone(no separate bass & treble back then), Balance(useful for determining which speaker was for left channel, inbuilt or lid speaker), Radio/Gram switch and Tuning(if a radio was included in the set, which, in most cases, there was a radio).
@@neilforbes416 sorry i left out some radios but people are listening to FM rather AM these days exept some AM stations have a FM translator for areas that cant pick up an AM station
That almost 😅 sounds like 👍 a “Humvee” record player, by “HMV” being the name. Hence the name “Humvee”, this record player is probably built like 👍 one ☝️. It probably has a 120 volt AC motor. I’ll guess that this record player is a 1953. It’s probably tube type. The capacitors on the amplifier circuit are probably bad. It could also be the cartridge needle 🪡. When the cartridge is dead 💀, there’s no sound that’s going to come from the speaker 🔊. Your friend, Jeff.
Hi Jeff, This unit was built for the Australian market so it has a 240 volt AC motor designed for 50hz mains. You're pretty much right about the year - or I think maybe a year or 2 later. I had already changed all the caps, including the filter caps, as well as the pick-up cartridge. Anyway, as the rest of the video shows, I had just left the speaker disconnected, hence no sound. Cheers
The BSR turntable uses a pickup arm similar to this maker's UA8 model auto-changer turntables. the regret with those is that the auto-changer spindle adaptor for large-centred Euro and Canadian(and the lesser American) 45rpm records were never provided with those UA8s in Australia.
Hi Neil, yes I believe this turntable uses many of the components from the UA8 including the whole motor & idler drive setup. The large centred 45 rpm records never really caught on here. Not sure why. I don't remember seeing an adaptor for them to suit a UA8. I do remember that a lot of the earlier 45s had a knock-out centre and I recall seeing plastic inserts in some 45s that had apparently been put in after production, presumably for the Australian market.. Cheers
@@Donno308 The UA8 turntable was fitted to PYE's *Dansette* players in Britain and, because their market featured records with a mix of solid, optional(push-out) and large-centred records, there was a need for such an adaptor to be included with the UA8 turntable. The Colaros, on the other hand, had the support arm with the small hole that only accommodated the small-centred discs Records with solid- or optional-centres would be handled by the changer sequence but large-centred records needed the "spider" adaptor or a single-play adaptor threaded onto the spindle and down to the platter to play the records one-at-a-time.
@@neilforbes416 That would be a nuisance, and rather short-sighted of Colaro. I never understood the reason for the large format centre hole. Do you know why it was introduced?
@@Donno308 RCA developed the vinyl 45rpm record just after WW2(but it took almost a decade to catch on here. The large centre-hole was likely to make for easy loading when stacking on those early changers that RCA made that only played 45s. The records waiting their turn to be played rotated with the record being played. I've seen those players demonstrated on other RU-vid channels, and quite frankly, the fellow who designed them had a *brain-fart* as these players are so stupid and restrictive that you can't play small-centred records unless you punched out the optional centre(if the record had one). They couldn't play 7" 33 1/3Rpm records as they had small spindle holes. Though multispeed players were coming onto the market in the early 1950s, the American, Canadian and several Euro record labels adopted the large centre. Interestingly, in Australia, the Australian Record Company(later to be CBS) which distributed Capitol prior to 1955, had issued some records here with large centres.
Hi David, The speed is pretty much governed by the mains AC frequency via the synchronous motor. Provided the drive spindle is the correct diameter there's not much that can go wrong except slippage somewhere in the system, usually the idler wheel, which looks ok to me. The drag from the stylus seems to be having an effect though. I will have a fiddle with the stylus pressure & see if I can improve it further.
@@Donno308 I did not know that it had a synchrous motor. Most of the ones I see here, have "phono motors" . Looking foward to the fixes that you come up with !
Hi George. Yes I don't usually do record players and I was quite glad to sell it. Needless to say I wasn't happy to have it back. Maybe I'll "hot rod" it - fit a better turntable and a good quality amp - preferably valve but whatever works.
Hi Gerry. you are right - by modern standards that stylus weight would be way too heavy. In its day however, this was considered acceptable. I guess people didn't expect their records to last long.
