I bought this old 6 cylinder Holden engine at a scrap metal price, for the purposes of testing our TBI throttle bodies on. I never intended to take the build this far.
Dear Customer Continuing on from our phone conversation please see attached some info that may be of interest to you. I can offer you two x MkII TBI-34 and will machine them both so they have the Stromberg two bolt pattern (same as in my 202 videos). These can be mounted sideways as the TBI is not attitude sensitive. Note: 1. You do not have to be fiddling with the mixture all the time, in fact you can just set it a nice spot and leave it. The metering regulator takes care of the rest. 2. Some folks think this unit cannot be used through the rev range or "on / off" like in a car because aircraft are running at a constant speed? This is entirely incorrect as the TBI does not know what sort of engine its bolted to and responds better than any carb I've ever used. The tiny holes offer an almost perfect progression of fuel delivery better than any one single jet or tapered needle. 3. Aerobatic aircraft are generally very high performance engines and they are constantly on and off the throttle. Our TBI unit is used in many competition aerobatic aircraft. 4. Fuel can be any petrol. Avgas or Unleaded no issues. Ethanol best kept below 15 %. I can do you two MkII TBI-34 with two bolt Stromberg pattern for just AUD $xxx (sales@rotecaerosport.com) all up with FREE shipping in Oz. I'm looking to get these on more cars and bikes to show others what can be done. These TBI would be a race tuners wet dream as its like having a pocket full of 1,000 jets that you can install and test in an instant while on the fly. Two of these units will look sharp on your 179. Please see my PayPal money request for the two units.
Best Holden motor back then I rebuilt on in may garage less then a days work replaced the head with yellow Terra head super fast with a 3speed box long live the kingswoods
Mmmm ... graphite rope rear mains seal ... that took me back to my apprenticeship days ... always install dry with a little oil in the seal groove ... then using the wooden handle of your favourite fitters hammer you massage the seal well down into its groove ... then with a very sharp blade trim the rope to be about 1 or 2 mm proud above the block/main brg cap surface and then fit off .. the idea is that when the engine runs oil will make the rope swell and seal the rear main brg. to suit ... the 'knurl' on the crank is as MoogZ (below) suggests to drive excess oil back into the crankcase/sump ... very common system on 'ye olde motors' ....
Hi just reminiscing from my old torana days and found your 202 rebuild very impressed with your assembling and your need for perfection which isn't seen to often these day's
Ahh - the good old days. 202 with 149 head large valves, triple 1 3/4" SUs robbed out of junk Austin 1800s with needles imported from UK, Wade cam, weighted distributor, allow cam gear, lightened flywheel all bolted into my EK. Quicker to 60mph than a 289 GT, after 60 the GT took off :) Tore a few gearboxes, tailshafts, and diffs to shreds. A set of 3 of these TBI bodies would have been nuts.
The problem with the old SU's, was they had a hard time keeping the throttle wide open ?? You would need to pump the peddle to keep the throttle open ?? The other hassle with SU's was balancing the 3 separate Carburetors ???? Best carburetors, IF you could afford them ?? Triple Side Draft Webers. OR. These Throttle Bodies .
Like a swiss watch noice! sounds great takes me back to my youth thats for sure, although my first engine was in a HT with a 186 in it great car $700.00 in 1976 (rusted bottoms on the front guards) those were the days!
I built a blue motor with a yella terra turbo head on it using a black motor efi manifold and delco efi off a vn v6 using the guts out of a ford ea dizzy to run the ignition system . It also had a vortech centrifical supercharger running methanol for 374 bhp at the wheels behind a 2 speed power glide in an 62 ek panelvan . The old 202 didnt know it could do what it was doing . Standard crank rods but forged pistons and arp studs and bolts throughout . It was also drysumped because we kept beating the oil pressure with revs and throw rods out of it . It used to rev to 7500 all day after that . We could have done a engine transplant from another make but i like doing things the hard way . Good old holden engines . Oh it was also grout filled and block oringed .
G'day mate, no technical comments or questions just wanted to say love the ice-cream container for storing bits and pieces. Bet you did that in the old shed at home growing up.
These engines are very similar if not the same as the 3294cc straight-six ohv engines used in the British Vauxhall Cresta (1965 until 1972) and the Vauxhall FD series Ventora (1967 to 1972) and the FE series Ventora (1972 to 1978). The layout seems identical, but it was never a popular car and no upgrades were ever offered for it as far as I remember. I heard the engine was derived from the smaller Bedford trucks. But what Oz has done with these is amazing. 🙂
Cool video… love the “shade tree engineering” assembly tools! Wonder how two or three of these would go on the right manifold, with a Yella Terra head, solid cam and some headers…
Brings back memories. I redid my 186 back in ‘75. It was still going strong 25 years later!! Just a couple of points for interest. I’m not sure about the 202, but the earlier red motors really were red rather than orange. Also the red motor was introduced with the EH in 1963. All the engines before that were grey. I can’t remember all the differences but the red was a big improvement. Thanks for a great vid.
It's funny how motors can bring back so many memories. Bad memories for some people 😂 Yes you're right about the Red Motors being a Big improvement. The poor old Grey Motors were not much, almost Vintage in away. It's sort of ironic how Holden reintroduced the 138 back into the LC Torana,s ?? At least they were a Red Motor, but that was the only good thing about them, LOL. Most took them out and changed to either the 186 or 202 with the ever reliable Aussie 4 Speed. Yes, they were more Red than Orange in the early days of Red Motors. Not sure why the Orange colour was used in later models. But the Die Hard Holden Man never cared to much about it 👍
They made the 202 as a low compression motor also. Designed for use as a stationary engine ( compressors/generators) that ran on standard fuel. Was extremely successful in this application and a much sought after engine.
Do you remember what Stationary Engines they were used for ? I remember the Ford Motors being used for the older Chain Drive Concrete Trucks. The only place you find them now is in old quarries or tanneries for treating the cattle hides.
@@weldmachine. The Holdens were also used to rotate the mixer barrels on concrete delivery trucks. Around about the time of the making of Mad Max III, a motion picture special effects technician, Bob Bosisto had two Holden engines on a trailer driving ducted fans as a wind machine.
Special service tool for installing rope seal, basically it's a semi circle lump of steel with a handle that you tap with a hammer to preform the seal before inserting the crank.
I had a black 202 in the 90s threw a 350 holley on it size 92 jets,extractors 2.25 inch exhaust,Tq20 cam,3 grand stally.Went ok did bit over 5000rpm in 1st.
Installing your Rotec alternator on my Jabiru engine transformed the operating experience of my Skystar Pulsar III. I wanted to upgrade the Bing carb to this TBI but it seemed unlikely its form factor could be accommodated by my engine mount. It also seemed likely, the throttle, mixture and primer controls orientations were going to be very difficult, if not impossible to facilitate. I'll keep watching for future evolutions of this fuel solution.
"mixture and primer controls orientations were going to be very difficult, if not impossible to facilitate" Hi Dennis thanks for your comment, difficult is relative and subjective, but impossible I'm sorry I just cant accept. Take a look here at this Jabiru set up ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yja-gG78Zuc.html
Make sure grout atleast the bottom 1/4 there weak around jackets on starter motor side, I was making 280hp in my torana , and it cracked the block bottom of the gallery.
The colour you're chasing is Holden Rocket red. The colour you have here is closer to Chevy orange, but it's a common colour that reconditioners paint them. As for the Holden Red, it began its production run with the EH in 1964, in 179 sized, through to the 3.3 litre in the VK in 1985. Technically was the Blue engine from 1980-1984, and the Black from 1984-1985. Main difference between the Red and the latter engines was a 12 port head, electronic ignition, and the Black had optional fuel injection
Red motors were up to around 77 78 ish . Orange 202 9 port started around 79 in vb commodore. Best ones were in my opinion were the black motor 3 3 12 port with the factory mild stage or high lift camshaft with early 3.3 blue motor 12 port head combination with a phillipino version m21 gearbox and 3.37 to 1 diff.
Hey mate, love the video! Just picked up a '75 HJ Kingswood and I plan on restoring the 202. I love the way you've done yours and I was just wondering if the pcv block off caps were made by you or if you bought them somewhere? Thanks mate.
Yep. Wikipedia has the details. Red motor in Holdens - 1963 (149 cu in) in EH Holden until 1980 (202 cu in) in HZ. Lead free petrol and increased emission standards killed them off. They were replaced by Nissan 6 cylinder engines.
The red engine turned into blue then black motors and were used right up to the VK fuel injected commodore then the VL sported the Nissan motor from 1986 onwards....
Have you seen how how both Honda, with their CX series of bikes, & Moto Guzzi, with its Daytona, got 4 valve per cylinder heads working from 2 parallel pushrods per head? Plus without the heads being really wide either. Just trying to motivate you to design multivalve pushrod heads for the Jabiru & Volkswagen too (I own a Type 3). Mind you to stop the inlet valves on each side getting in each others way, as the tops of the valves where their springs are, splay out a tad, you might have to tilt the whole valve train, like on the Porsche 356 & 912, so the inlet valves sticks out perfectly horizontally & & only the exhaust valves splays out, but doubly so. Of course it would mean pistons with asymmetrical tops on them though.
Im almost 60 & the 202 when we were young was a peace of shit the 186 with a 161 head running roller rockers and a lumpy cam with triple stromberg cd-150 carbs & extractors was the way to go unless you were running a 253 and knocked off a 9inch diff from a ford to shove into the XU1 then it was fun and no they were not orangery red they were red but you did a nice job son
It was Gutless , timing Gear was Fibre Type were dogs, had to replace with Aluminium Type , Hungry on Fuel ⛽️ Leak more oil than they use , the Best thing I ever did was purchase V6 Jap motors , cars and utilities More power , more Reliable , Fuel Economy twice the mileage to the Tank Never leak oil and after 30 Years Never Broke Down , injection once on one motor Ran perfect untill I hit Tree 🌳
Have you made these Throttle Bodies for a particular market ? Or, is it pretty much open to any buyers looking for a fuel supply alternative ? Seems if you use a Holden Red Motor for your test engine the market is fairly open for the end user. Were you ever based near the bottom of Moorabbin Airport ? I remember going to see a couple brothers years ago who were looking to employ someone to help build the the Radial Engines. I only ask because you mention you also built the Radial Engines. Not sure IF you are the same person or there is someone else who builds these engines as well ??
like this idea can you do theses as like twin carbs ?linked together ? and fit the old original oil bath type air cleaner ? regarding the tightness on the crank we found that when we rebuild the 179 what we found was the rear bearing is now made to fit all early reds but they tell you to clearance the end float o the main rear bearing we did this by using a flat piece of glass and wet & dry paper with oil sanding it till we got the right clearance end float there is a conversion main seal that replaces the old rope seal much easier to fit as well
Properly souped up in the XU1 Torana the 186 and the 202 were fire breathers. Very capable race cars winning against bigger V8s (Moffat and his 351 Falcon). Brocky showed them how to do it at Bathurst. What a pocket rocket! What a motor!
Hi I'm working on an old land rover with a 202 and am looking at my carburetor options... then I see this. Awesome! I would love to use one of your units, but would they suit an automotive daily driven weekend offroader application? I get the priming thing but not too sure about constantly varying throttle response.. did I see somewhere it's not ok to alter the revs quickly/frequently?
@chilliedog We have supplied several TBI for street and track racing engine, bikes and cars no issues, the throttle response is fantastic. The mixture control you can just set and forget. But makes tuning for each given track condition a doddle! No more needing to change jets. The TBI is a fully mechanical low pressure system and has metered fuel delivery. Please email me, I'll set you up with a good deal. paul@rotecaerosport.com
So has anyone actually used one on a street car yet? I'm up for either a new carb or a Holley Sniper efi conversion, real soon. What price can you do for one to suit a HJ Holden 6cyl single stromberg manifold? What else do I need to bolt it on and go? What do I do about throttle cable connecting etc?
Yes mate they certainly have, we’ve sold quite a few for street and track. Give the shop a call I’ll talk you through it. 03 5977 3805 ask for Tony or Paul (me)
They are called a red motor because, when first released in 1963, they were painted brown. Like a dark, red oxide. Changed to orange for 1968 HK. Blue from 1980 to 83, black from 84 to, I think, 86.
Impressed! is this a pure mechanical injection setup? Like does this require any kinda sensors to run, or is this just a standalone unit? I'd be keen to personally test out one of these units, as I've done a few youtube vids. Looking to put another 4-5 holden sixes together over the summer along with another v8. Care to sponsor me with one of those units? More than happy to put out some vids/reviews...
Yes is all mechanical no electrics required. The TBI unit runs on regular low pressure fuel pumps, so the regular Holden engine driven fuel pump is fine. Happy to do you a deal on TBI for you to try out. You'll be impressed I'm sure. They run great.
Those rope seals on the rear main are shit I’m pretty sure it’s the same on the 253 and 308 basically you have to soak them in 30W oil overnight and professional engine builders will often put the crank in an out and torque it up multiple times before they get it right some of them even make up a jig to locate the half moon rope seal well and truly into the recess and even then there’s a knack to make sure they don’t leak and from memory that is cutting them 20 thou proud of the block on either side and allowing them to crush and there might be other ways but I believe you can get neoprene rubber these days that’s the way to go Definitely need to check how many pounds per square inch it takes to turn the crank but only once everything is in including the Pistons
Not correct. 202 red motors were an option in the HQ, starting from 1971. Blue motor was an extensive re-design that came out in 1980, in VC Commodores.
I had three of these over the years. Terrible motor. The 186 was better. These horrible 202 lumps revved to uselessness after three quarters of the rev range, sucking fuel, making noise and going nowhere. My best example was equipped with triple Strombergs a'la XU1, Accel ignition, Genie Headers, a Yella Terra Head upgrade and an 8 bolt Salisbury diff. Ditched the Traumatic in favour of an Aussie Boxes 4 speed. Still got smoked by Cortinas with 250cu Pre-crossflow engines sporting little more than a 4 barrel holley upgrade and a decent exhaust. Same money spent on a 186 would have been better. But would deep six all GMH sixes to get hold of a 350 Chev to play with back in the day.
The only real description of a Holden six and a traumatic. Everyone else is wearing their rose coloured glasses. They were good for boat anchors, but not much else.
A Cortina with a 250 cross flow was a rocket,thats for sure,and a Centura with a 265 with tripple webbers would do wheel stands,but Holdens were never built to race,Holden never designed performance cars.
I dragged off the cops in a Gpak torana with a 161 in it and an Aussie 4sp,they were in an xd with a 250, they said in court that they were doing 180 kph hour and I was pulling away from them,they just disappear behind me,their head lights got smaller and smaller till I could barely see them.it was a stock 161 with extractors and straight through exhaust out of an old clapped out ht ute :), I won't bore you with the story of why I removed the 186,but it was a good engine that was going well when swapped.
Pointless inlet manifold and exhaust headers.....so much horsepower LOST.....might as well just run a Holley....if you were SERIOUS; INDIVIDUAL THROTLE BODIES AND DIRECT INJECTION.......OR TRIPLE SU's old school power....
The engine Definitely Needs a Decent Inlet and Exhaust manifold. But i think this guys idea is just to test the function more than the performance of the Throttle Body.
The rocker cover and engine was red when I purchased it. The original paint was old. The rocker cover had two PCV valves and a sealed oil cap. I blanked off the old PCV valves and went with an eBay vented oil cap. The serial number suggested the engine was from a 1971 Kingswood. I’m very confident this engine was never blue. Cheers!
