I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that Tim is gonna need another fancy bullet making machine very soon. That bullet is impressive, to say the least.
Very impressive and agree that this may pay for another CNC lathe or three. Aside from the stunning performance, I just checked and no one has them in stock at the moment, since the price was also reasonable. $1.90 per round ($38 per 20) for fully copper, CNC-machined 9mm slugs.
The construction of this bullet is amazing. I cannot believe how consistently it expands while staying in one piece. I fully expected the petals to tear off in almost every medium. Well done Ballistic Machinist!!!
@@BallisticMachinist You getting some balls behind the production of this? Get some distribution, If not shop the idea to Underwood so we can get a case of these. I need these in my Life.
I can't even begin to imagine the amount of work he put into getting those right. As spindly as those petals look, it's amazing they are able to fold out at a nearly 90 degree angle and not break off. That alone is pretty darn impressive, but doing it consistently? Kind of mind blowing. I hope he sells the hell out of them. If he does end up making them in .45, I know I'll be buying a few boxes.
Are they technically +p at that fps? Seems like decent recoil. Definitely want to pick a box up for my concealed carry. It’s weird because research shows the 124g jhp is actually best for 9mm, but this round says otherwise!
Just a clarification. FBI gel standards are 12" to 18". While it falls short for a "normal" bullet, it's still like getting hit by a broadhead. I guess the question I have, if only goes half the depth of a human torso, isn't that wear the vitals are? It's worthy of debate.
That round needs to be pattened right away before someone steals the idea. Absolutely tremendous performance consistently, releases energy without overpenetrating.
@Will Swift In the USA a person has up to 1 year to submit a patent after public disclosure. However, the same is not true for non-US patents. You are correct that he (assuming he has not already filed internationally) has lost any patent protection in most other countries.
Good for when you really gotta worry about your backstop situation, that hopefully it doesn't go through the intended target and into an unintended target, to be able to put rounds into the target with solid stopping power and "less lethal" penetration if the round passes through.
@@exgenica Most other countries don't consume ammo like the US does, in fact, Im pretty sure you guys are the only ones that have a need for this ammo all over the world.
I hope Ballistic Machinist patented this design, because it's a quantum leap better than anything made so far. I am very impressed by the extreme expansion and consistency. Unbelievable.
I don't think the design itself is unique enough to patent but it is a great design that works as good as you could hope for. It is different that other similar designed bullets but close enough to be difficult to patent.
You can do what I did and buy some and test them. They're about $2 a round. You can buy just the projectile for $1 a round and load them yourself as well. To answer your question: The "pedals" actually have to tear apart from each other at the base. This spot is fairly thin and machined that way to allow this action. Once it tears and hits about the 90' point, it is very difficult (takes a lot of force) to bend them PAST the 90' point. The projectile is solid copper. What "seems" to happen when hitting "bone" in the advanced ballistic dummy is that it tumbles when one or more of the open pedals contacts "bone". I've had a couple where just the tip of the pedal/s will slightly bend when this happens. I carry them daily in both my Berretta 92A1 and Smith & Wesson MP 9 2.0 CORE ported. I spent a long time in the US Military. From my experience and knowledge, these projectiles are VERY effective. They produce a much larger wound channel and have not exited any target I have tested them against. I used to carry Hornady critical duty and defense rounds, as they were the "best" I've tested before these. Hope the info helps.
watch some of the videos on his channel today. tim & some of the other test people did a gel, meat, 7 other material test. the meat was a pork shoulder with 2 shots. 1 meat alone the other meat & bone. busted through the bone an deflecting off the bone by about 90'. in .380 acp.
when i started learning about bullets and hollowpoints, i hoped that someday we would have a hollowpoint that could expand to a full + shape without bending back, and it’s here!
Unfortunately, 8" of penetration in bare synthetic gel translates to 5.16" of penetration in 10% organic gel used in the FBI tests. Minimum penetration requirement is 12"
@@InGratitudeIam This round will penetrate human flesh and dump all of its energy into your criminal without the worry of a round going through .Win win
Actually, not folding back slightly diminishes the penetration. 8" to 9" may not be enough penetration if going through an arm, hence the 12" to18" directive of the FBI.
Without real world testing I'd say your wrong. Besides light weight rounds out of handguns are notoriously bad man stoppers. Impressive water spray or clay expansion is a moot point. I've seen 38 special hollow base wadcutters reloaded backwards make astounding clay impressions. Doesn't make it a good defense round.
@@hatfield1964 Correct, lightweight rounds are typically bad because they don't have the momentum necessary for adequate penetration; however, additional testing really isn't necessary as these won't even reach minimum FBI standard penetration depth of 12 in in ballistic gelatin.
I showed this to a friend who has been shot by a 9mm in the arm and one in the back , he said "that would have removed my arm and I'd be dead", very insane rds
you friend doesnt know what he is talking about. 20 years of dealing with gun shot victims that WOULDNT have removed his arm. your friend is stretching reality farther then if goes in the real world
Unbelievably amazing. Would love to see something like this for a 45. Good job on the demonstration. Decimated the block clay as if it were from a shotgun. Just straight up bad ass of a round, wow!
I have loaded this same bullet in my .45, .40, 9m, 100 for years. This guy is making his own version of the Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion bullet - which has been out for 10 years.
Grizzly Ammo made a .45 ACP version of this, but stopped producing them. I keep them in my HiPoint .45s for home defense, even though they are years old.
The reason chrono works better upside-down on that table is that the contrast of the round passing over the sensors is obvious, which is why you also use the white strips. The problem is not the chrono it's the sunlight. The light, when the device is upright is too much so it can't see the projectile. You could build a total cover for the device which would prevent errors and allow you to keep it upright.
That was my concern as well. Perhaps they can validate these velocities with a future video where they compare the data from a sideways-oriented chronograph to one properly positioned. If there are serious discrepancies between the test and control groups of that future video, then none of the velocity results rendered from this test are valid. As always, a fun and informative video.
I made a lightweight frame using quarter inch PVC pipe. T put a black tablecloth over the top and sides of the frame. I set my chrono inside and it works perfect.
I have an older, similar (folding), model and it has a hard time on overcast days due to the low light. I also have issues whenever the lenses on the sensors get dirty.
All I can say is WOW!! I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that round!! Thanks for everything you do I know it takes a lot of time and I always appreciate the efforts you go to!!
@@virgilhilts3924 Very true, but the fact is that a soft clay block can still be used as an indicator of how good a projectile dumps its energy into its target. This particular round is able to generate so much "traction", if you can think of it in that borrowed term, that it creates a damn flower pot. Other rounds of similar weight often don't push away the clay as effectively and only get to "gutter pipe" size.
@@virgilhilts3924 Hey, a body isn't made from ballistics gel either, clear or not. The fact that the target is not _actually_ the same as a body doesn't mean it can't yield meaningful results _when comparing rounds._ What one cannot do is to take the expansion in ballistics gel, or the expansion in clay, and assume that it will expand exactly the same in a body. But clay (or BG) *will* show which round is better at dumping energy, in comparison to each other round in the same type of clay.
@@virgilhilts3924 Shees, you want me to be more precise, and call it transfer of kinetic energy? I'll bow out. Be happy, you "win" this round Mr. Expert. (This channel isn't about being a good hunter, which as you correctly point out calls for good aim in the first place, but this channel is about how _bullets_ behave. It's not about how to properly aim, or where to aim.)
I'm in the UK so we're barely exposed to guns, if at all, in our entire lifetime, but even I was extremely impressed with those & the explanations from officer Gregg helped me understand why he liked them so much too. Good luck to the guy who made them, hope he gets back his investment, I think he will jjudging by the results shown here. Great video guys 👍
Depends were u grow up I'm from Kent and have been around deer caliber rifles right up to shooting.50 stuff at Mendip shooting ground and there are flipping tons of ranges if your interested in the hobby go seek a local club most are clay pigeon shooting grounds but hit me up il send u some links for proper clubs I like bisley probly the widest variety of guns and disciplines there happy shooting fellow Brit 😀🧐
@@sextempiric7137 I don't think anyone asked you, hoplophobe. As Sigmund Freud said, those who are afraid of weapons (you. DEFINITELY you) have stunted growth and other ..... mental issues.
The flashlights were a cool idea to have better visibility of the gel. Here's an idea for you - use LED light strips under the gel so you don't lose your lighting
The difference between the 5" barrel and the 16" barrel wasn't as much as I expected. Makes me think they might perform well from shorter barrels too. Tim should send some to Paul Harrell too. I'd love to see what these do to the meat target.
So this is what I think might be going on with that. The powder is being burned off at around the 8-10" mark. The rest of the barrel is then slowing the bullet down. I have a Beretta M9A1 with a threaded barrel just over 5". With the Corbon 125gr +p I'm getting about what's on the box. 1250fps. In my HK Sp5 with a 9" barrel I'm getting 1425fps. What you get from a 125gr .357mag from a 4" Barrel. To be honest I bought the HK because I thought it was cool and would be fun to have around. I live in a rural area so a AR15 for home protection isn't a bad choice. But after that I leave the HK loaded as well. My friend also as a AR 9MM of some sort but it is a rifle with a 14.5 pin and welded barrel. He's getting about 1325 with that same Corbon load. Anyway that's what I think is going on. ⁸
Makes sense. They could be pairing a faster burning powder for such a lightweight bullet. That would still be useful in a short barrel, as long as there's still enough recoil to reliably cycle the action.
The vid says the barrel was 19" not 16". I bring it up because I have an AR 9mm with a 16" barrel and the velocity is quite higher than out of my Beretta 92FS. I do believe once a barrel reaches a certain length velocity does drop off. I saw somewhere with a 9mm that length is around 12-14 inches. I would put a slightly shorter barrel however that puts me in the SBR category.
In rifle length barrels you tend to get a lot of mileage from running hotter ammo, because otherwise pressure drops too much and barrel friction actually makes you lose velocity past a certain point. You can go even higher if you use loads with slower powder, just be aware it'll lose performance in pistols.
Yeah this is clearly a case of a loader knowing what he’s doing. He’s using an appropriately fast burning powder to get max velocity out of short pistol barrels. When you use long but light solid copper bullets, usually you get best results with faster burning powders. So, if you graphed velocity per inch of barrel, what I would expect to see is that velocity increases as the barrel increases until around 8-12” or so, then the powder is spent, and friction between the bullet and barrel starts to win. I bet velocity increases until that 8-12” mark then slows from there.
FBI BRF standard is 12-18" in calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin. Clear Ballistics is fun stuff, but typically overstates penetration compared to 10% calibrated gelatin.
Seeing sonoluminescence from the collapse of the cavitation bubbles in the high speed shots of the water jug is pretty awesome! I saw three flashes, with the largest being at 19:21
Sorry to ruin the mood but those are not sonoluminescence flashes, its actually the flashlight behind the jug used to illuminate it flickering. You can see how it turns off when the bullet hits the jug then it seems to want to turn on again.
@@teresashinkansen9402 I disagree, the flashes are too intense and short-lived to be flashlight reflections. They are also not the same colour temperature as the supposed source light.
@@HamBown The flashlight is plenty powerful, you can see on top of the jug how bright it is, the reflection looks almost like sunshine. For sonoluminescence flashes to occur a sealed collapsing cavity must form, yet you can see there is not even a cavity formed, its not sealed at all and its still expanding, its water splattering around. Ive only seen such flashes happen on ballistics gel because it keeps the cavity shape, also its not proper sonoluminescence but a dieseling effect.
FYI, Some folks may not know that "Swiss" refers to a design, not a country of origin. Tsugami is a Japanese manufacturer, with some units built in a plant in China. It *is* a "Swiss Lathe", which unlike conventional lathes, "Swiss" turning centers have a moving headstock, i.e., they move the work in the z-axis as well as cutting in x and y axis'.
I was expecting you to test it against soft body armour. I thought with the extra velocity it might have had a chance. Props on Tim making some weird but solid stuff. Great video as per usual!
The extra surface area as it expands would make the marginal extra velocity negated. .357 mag is higher velocity and has a heavier projectile but IIIA is rated to stop that. AP ammo is designed not to expand at all. It still would be interesting to see what would happen though.
I tried the exact same thing 30+ yrs ago and doing it all by hand, a small file and hand chisel and a work bench it was not easy and no where near as perfect as what this gent has produced, but was trying for same effect, then I was asked to do a spiral or end result a claw type effect but again without the micrometer and special tools it did not go as planned, so kudoos to the gent who did accomplish this very very very daunting and hard to balance task ! Great job a d thanks for sharing
I'd like to see how it does out of a 3" barrel like most folks, especially in warmer t-shirt weather, tend to carry. I have a feeling the 124grain Federal HST round would still be on top. But again, I'd like to see shorter barrel testing to know for sure! Thanks for a great video for what seems to be a great round so far.
You bring to mind this question, "What is the expansion threshold for these bullets?" And its upper limit where petals shed off would be good to know also regarding use in .357 Sig or .38 Super.
okay so the gummy bear test impressed the heck out of me. it not only penmetrated and bloomed in bear one but still had enough speed and structural integrity to cross the airgap fully bloomed, then went through bear two fully bloomed, crossed the air gap and deep enough into bear three STILL bloomed to cause a potentially fatal wound. those petals are impressive! I want some lol
Impressive to be sure! Having said that, nothing was said about feed reliability. A great round becomes not so great if it doesn’t feed consistently without jamming. It would be great to see some rapid fire rounds through multiple magazines in different popular semi-auto models/brands.
They don't have time or that many of the different types of firearms. As Jerry Miculek has said in his videos, you have to practice with what you want to carry, for reliabilty and cycling. It is okey to practice with ball ammo, but if you are going to carry a specific ammo you need to run it. Not all ammo will work in every gun. My glock can run pretty much anything, but critical defence. I think it is caused by the harsh angle of the slug.
Good point! I would buy a box and test out the feed reliability in your personal carry pistol. If it works well purchase another box. I conceal carry a glock 43x, glocks will Definity shoot any kind of ammo brand. Im sure it will feed just fine in a glock.
This round is unbelievable! Ballistic Machinist should be very proud of his work! People should buy as much of this ammo as possible! He should be rich for this design!
Wow! You sold me! I purchased a 20 round box. That gives me a full mag for my 9mm relegated to home defense, with 2 rounds for my own watermelon and water filled pumpkin test! Great review!
My wife hopes down the line he comes out with a round for her .327 federal magnum - may be waiting awhile! I bought a Canik TP9SA years back to teach her to shoot. It's our nail-driving home defense weapon, she's scary good with that one, better than me. Keep the videos coming! Watching your channel helps keep me out of the doghouse from shooting up various household items myself!
FBI penetration standard is 12" to 18" in ballistic gel this is to account for a hit to an arm outstretched like someone shooting at you or a sideways or odd angle to be able to still reach vitals. Hornady critical duty 135 gr +p is consistently 14" to 16" through various clothing. The hard lead is Also great for hard barriers like car doors or windshields.
Very very cool story. Well done Tim!!! Contgratulations on the new business and best of luck with your new entrapaneuraship! Jeff and Gregg - very very cool shots. Wonderful use of flashlights with the gel block. A really wonderful video!!! :)
Just came across this channel, you guys are amazing and have been going strong for years. I can't own a gun over here in England but learning all these facts and your relaxing narration has helped me fall asleep comfortably and stopped me panicking before. Keep up the good work, please!
@@taofledermaus I would definitely try this round if I could find where to purchase them. I typically use the 147gr HST 9mm hollow points, but would love to compare these 2 types of rounds side by side.
21:58 that went through the exact same hole! Sure, the distance wasn't 50 yards, but it still shows both accuracy of the projectile and marksmanship of the shooter! Very nice!
Excellence in engineering! Count me impressed. Not only does it do what it says, but it exceeds! Something worth buying. I see great things in his future. He's going to need a bigger shop for all of those extra machines to keep up with the orders.
I believe these would be fantastic for an air marshall or someone living in a densely populated apartment building, especially in a PCC or sub gun. As for me with no crowds of people around, I'll keep my 147 grain 9mm JHP's.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 More penetration while also having the benefit of an expanding projectile for a larger wound cavity. I live in a cold climate where people wear an absurd amount of heavy clothing and are overweight. And I also want that extra bullet weight because I do have some medium sized animal threats in my area as well and want to ensure a deep enough shot.
Eh, I keep frangibles in my "home" mag for the 9mm, they're some of the Extreme Shock(tm) Air Freedom rounds. Kinda shallow penetration on gel, but they don't go through two sheets of drywall. Unfortunately, the company is either out of business or no longer making pistol caliber ammo. Outdoors magazines are HSTs.
Looks like results I've seen from the Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion bullets. Very similar design, and the Lehigh in a 220 grain 45 caliber loaded for 45 Colt is just wicked!
I’d like to see more testing before I trust the interceptor with my life. That said, Tim has a lot of experience now with experimental projectiles, and clearly felt confident that this was good enough for (somewhat) mass production, and what I see here is very promising, so I have high hopes!
I was impressed for sure, this seems to be an excellent choice for home and personal defense. I will be picking up a few boxes to check them out. Tx guys
Canada doesn't have an impeach, He's broken the laws, and been caught breaking federal laws, which the average person would be doing 10+ years in a federal prison. the embezzling of funds for the "WE Charity" run by him & his whore I mean mother. The broken federal ethics laws, and becoming the first prime minister to have done so. Apr 26, 2022 - According to the documents, the RCMP concluded that the case has largely been made for an offence of fraud against the government by Mr. Trudeau. AND the violation of the Emergency Shelter act in November of 2022.. The NEXT Election, he will once again WIN by a landslide and have a majority Government.. Because Canada's electoral system is even more fucked up than the USA.
@@sharkey5150 The USA is kind of the reason we're in this situation. Every time there is a mass shooting in the USA, our Elected officials try to make it so it doesn't happen here. The gun garbage is long before Trudeau, he's just continuing the garbage Pierre Elliot started in the 80s. Trudeau is going about it backwards though..
Would be interesting to see the performance from the "short barreled" pistols. Everyone seems to love 'em. Seems like it would be fantastic as this video clearly shows. I'm sold. Love the scientific testing process as well. Men age, they don't grow up. Like two kids playing with firecrackers and toys. Awesome.
Absolutely insanely impressive ammo. I hope the word gets around and that he patents these things because they are 100% a first of their kind sort of deal and could be incredibly profitable for him. I remember when he first started sending in designs to be tested by you guys and it's crazy seeing how far he's come.
@@SCAR16s Lehigh defense rounds are shaped like a Philips head screw driver and don’t look anything like these at all. I don’t really know how you can even compare them.
I just stumbled into your channel, I am a 9mm shooter I liked what I saw. Your way to test a bullet is as unconventional as most of us are, so I subscribed.
Pretty impressive. Please be sure to test the different calibers too guys. I'm really interested in this round when it goes to .45ACP. Also wonder if he'll put it in 12ga :)
We will make sure to send out the new calibers to Jeff. The 12ga expanding has always been on the board the design just hasn't worked yet. Still working on it
@@BallisticMachinist looking forward to seeing them! Those 12ga Gatekeeper slugs are hard to find. A second source for massive controlled expansion would be nice.
Jeff, one of the things I've seen done to illuminate and help measure rounds in gel is using a laser pointer. Of course that won't do anything for the overall lighting while you're filming, but it does illuminate the rounds better in the gel, especially when you have multiple rounds close together, and it helps give you a measuring point from outside the gel without having to move the block around or cut it open.
Wonderful job Tim. Congratulations 🎉🎊. I was very impressed with the projectile expansion and the way it consistently held together. The next gun show I attend, I’ll be looking for these in .45 ACP. Keep up the great work and best of 🍀luck to you and yours during this Christmas🎄 season.
Maybe try setting the gel on plexiglass and lighting from below? I'd suggest getting LED work lights or photography/video lights so it's less likely (still check the heat specs!) to heat the gel up and change it's properties.
Tim uses a common soft cooper rod for these bullets. They opened perfectly. If he used something like phosphor bronze, they would poison them too, causing an extreme amount of agony, which might lead to stopping the perp quickly. Too hard a cooper, and they would be too brittle, and snap. His machine design, is working perfectly with the materiald he is using. Love to see him lighten the round a bit. Close encounters, are the most common, fighting distances. At close range a light zinger round, doesn't lose that much stopping power.
Seriously efficient stopping power with permanent wound channel. Effective round, hopefully orders will pay for his machine tooling. Seriously talented guy, wishing him the best of luck. Hopefully people will be happy with your back stop. You guys have experience and know carry distance, armchair critics gotta love them.
It's interesting and creative, but by modern accepted standards, it is not an effective round for self-defense. I don't know why they stated 8" is the minimum for the FBI standard, but it's not. In fact, it's not even close.
This is the most impressive 9mm I've seen in a very VERY long time. I've recently switched over to 10mm as my bedside/hiking pistol. Seeing this has me rethinking the pillow gun choice. I'm going to his website to pick some up now. Thanks fellas. P.s. I also see he has future plans for some heavier projectiles. I'm stoked for those.
Best 9mm in real world scenarios in full sized pistols is Hornady Critical Duty 9mm +P 135 Grain. Best consistent deep expansion in clothing to hit vitals without over penetration, best hard barrier penetration due to hard lead composition👍🏼
its just a straight up better frangible round. better in every aspect. its pretty rare to see an across the board improvement in ballistics like this, with no drawbacks. definitely getting some for home defense
Very impressive. This would be a better home defense round then most out there. Went through the bears real nice. Wonder what it would do in a short barrel like a 2.5 inch barrel.
The price is great. It's totally worth grabbing a box of 20 and keeping a couple magazines of it on the nightstand. I can't imagine these would overpenetrate in the house.
Most people miss in a self defense shooting and that's FAR more worrisome than "overpenetration". Normal 9mm HPs will be more reliably lethal and also not go through a suspect.
Actually, this is a great point and might make a great follow-up test. How many sheets of drywall will it penetrate? Two sheets of drywall would represent an interior wall, and if that is enough to slow one of these interceptors to non-lethal speeds it would be game-changing. Drywall, fiberglass insulation, and 1/2" plywood would be a good simulation of an exterior wall.
I'd like to have seen how these performed in shorter more common concealed carry barrel lengths, such as the 3.7" Sig p365xl, or even shorter. But thanks for the great video and information on this innovative ammo.
After I saw these , my first thought was " those petals are WAY too long and unsupported, won't the bend on feed ramps?" I'm glad i was wrong and these are definitely impressive!
Interesting how he's got, apparently, the optimal powder for this load for a handgun duty sized barrel. It would be interesting to find the length where the bullet begins to slow thw bullet from friction with the extra barrel length while the gasses are no linger expanding (which seems to be happening here).
It's been a honor not only following you you guys since the start, but for Tim to come up with such a high performance no bullshit self defense round in 9mm?! Tim I hope you read this. Keep up the good work brother
