Home Brewing Myths 3 - Secondary Fermentation, Sanitation, Autolysis 

I started in this hobby like so many others - I had been taught to transfer to a secondary vessel after fermentation started dying down - usually a few days to a week. I was told that I had to get the beer off of the yeast as soon as possible to avoid any off-flavors. About 6 months into this wonderful hobby, I let a primary fermentation go for about 3 weeks without touching it - life just kept getting in the way. At the time I thought the beer might be ruined, but I kegged it anyway (I started out kegging) and guess what? It turned out to be the best beer I had made up to that point. Turns out beer does better when the yeast are allowed to sit a while before transferring (I've tried to share this knowledge with as many homebrewers as possible, but some people are stubborn or just won't believe it, and the myth keeps propagating). That was almost 15 years ago - and I've never used a secondary vessel since. I'm really big on personal experience over common knowledge, so don't take my word for it - try it and decide for yourself.

I completely agree on the myth of secondary fermentation. I, too, did a video (and blog) on this last year after being asked repeatedly why I don't do it in my videos.

Thanks guys !! My only home brew failures have been due to secondary racking. Tears were shed. I had a brew that sat on the yeast cake for 3 weeks with dry hopping with Cascade and it was excellent. Even Kolsch beers sat around for a couple of weeks after primary and were great. Keep up the great work !!

Dear friends good video. I'm a new brewer. Just did my very first American ale and came across a lot of new experiences that I don't find on you tube. I built a mashtun with 5 gallon home depot cooler (the circular one). I used a circular soup strainer as a false bottom. Made a hole in the strainer and fixed a hose through the hole and connected the hose to the mashtun drain. The soup strainer was almost 3/4 diameter of the mashtun. The store I bought the malt said I should be getting specific gravity 1.050 yield but I actually got 1.060 yield. I used 4 gallons of 6 ph water (strike) at 167 degrees and 3 gallons of 7 ph water (sparge) at 160 degrees. I didn't get much bubbles on the airlock during fermentation (6 bubbles a minute). I tested the specific gravity after 5 days to make sure if it is ferminting. The specific gravity was 1.000. I tasted it and it was excellent. I just bottled it with priming sugar. But does fermentation complete in 5 days?? I was told 2 weeks.

Your videos are great. I learn way more because I end up watching them 3 times. The first couple of times I'm laughing so much I get distracted and have to slap myself to concentrate. Great work guys

Mostly agree... I keg fermented a stout then moved and no longer had a brewery and left it in the unairconditioned garage. By the time I got back to it a year and a half later, it was still awesome. I made a Stella Artois copy, bottle conditioned, and it really did not taste right until it was 6 months old. Thanks for the vid guys!

Thanks guys. I am no longer going to second ferment. Saves me time and cleanup,

I'd question the comments about secondary fermentation. The main reason for our difference of opinion is probably that I brew open fermented Ales moving to closed secondary after the krausen has fallen back.

Informative and funny! Thanks guys, this is an immediate subscribe for me, keep it up!

Man I've learned sooooo much from these myth videos! Great job!

Secondary is one of those funny myths that you don't know about when you first start home brewing, then you get a bit more advanced and see everyone on RU-vid is doing it, so copy them. THEN realise it's a complete waste of time when you get more experienced again. I commonly see American home brewers talking about it, so wonder if it is more common due to the kinds of vessels commonly used. In Australia, it's common to use a single plastic fermentation vessel that has a tap on it, ready for pouring into bottles or taking hydrometer readings. So there is no need to move to a bottling bucket or secondary. The tap is usually a couple of centimetres (about an inch) from the bottom of the vessel, so the yeast cake isn't disturbed when racking. Of course plastic has its disadvantages vs glass or stainless steal, but they are less than $30 ($20 USD) for a 30L (8 gallon) vessel, so getting a couple of years of of them is still excellent value in my opinion. Another tip for sanitisation: Put on a pair of latex gloves and spray them with sanitiser. That way, you don't have to worry about any cuts on your hands or the dirt under your fingernails and you don't end up with dry, irritated skin.

Excellent tips and content chaps. I do secondary only of I'm dunking fruit in a hop bag. Otherwise I only go to primary, but I'm happy to leave it on the yeast for up to three weeks. Never had a problem and my beers clear really nicely in the bottle with no finings.

Thanks again. A sigh of relief, i also am still a lazy brewer.

Another great informative video guys.

Great video. You cleared up a few myths that didn’t make sense to me for the reasons you gave and I also love your presentation style. Drinking beer while presenting - what could be better!

I like you guys and drinking and talking is the perfect way to do it that's the reason I make home brew

Great video with a bunch of great tips/info. Well done and cheers!

Tons of great tips in this video. Great one guys. Cheers!

Homebrewers do not complain ! We adapt !!!

You guys are great! Love this video, especially secondary fermentation and batch sparging.

I usually dry hop in the secondary, but i will try dry hopping in the primary for future batches...Cheers.

the sanitizing part can not be said enough.. a ounce of prevention is worth a million dollars Had a mate over ,he wanted to watch me make my beer, i needed his assistance to get the last of the extract, & he goes along grabs the spoon end of my spoon..... then goes along and literally for some odd reason sticks his face in the bucket..... i kinder go a lil grumpy as i told him the slightest bit of bacteria will destroy this 23litres .... lesson learnt on both sides... he can sit 10ft away and observe... I should never need assistance, but some times many hands make light work... but @ what cost... beer is 10day into the "secondary" or bottles...... thanks for sharing this how i have not seen this channel

Another very good video. Thanks!

Doesn’t batch sparging disturb the grain bed? I always sided with the fly sparging method cause once you vorlauf it’s keeps the beer nice and clear because you aren’t constantly changing the circumstances on the grain bed. It would seem that batch sparging would disrupt the grain bed and render vorlaufing kinda pointless since your constantly draining/filling. Just my two sense. Good video guys!

Can definitely confirm that bottle conditioning is still a thing. I'm drinking a bottle that last week was mostly carbonated and awful and this week is fully carbonated and delicious.

You do need a secondary fermentation. That way you free up a fermentation tank & have another batch starting a week or 2 early.

I'm brewing an IPA and I'm playing with the yeast for a different flavor. I'm using a heffewiesen yeast for the banana clove flavor which dies off at around 5% and is better to under pitch so the flavors really set in but I want a higher ABV so once the hefeweisen yeast stops bubbling, I'm going to go secondary with wine yeast because I don't want the wine yeast to overwhelm the flavors I'm after.

The reason I've begun transferring to secondary is so I can harvest the yeast from the primary before the dry hops get mixed in or pour a new batch onto the yeast cake (the best place to store yeast is in beer!). I've been thinking about dry hopping with mesh bags though and maybe that'll stop enough of it mixing in with the yeast.

Great video, I agree with everything except the batch/fly sparge thing. I used to batch sparge, then a commercial brewer who is a friend showed me a neat trick to fly sparge without a spinkler arm: You put a piece of aluminum foil in the mash tun, then pour sparge water on that, to prevent channeling. As soon as I switched methods, my conversion efficiencies went up a least 5-10 points on every brew. I had to readjust my equipment profile in the calculator. Way more effective than batch sparging.

When describing the batch process, the Genus guys say you add the batch liquor, let sit 10-15 min, then start the batch runoff. What is that 10-15 minute rest supposed to achieve? IMO you want to vigorously stir to get all the sugars into solution, then immediately vorlauf, get your grainbed set and run off. Not only is waiting unnecessary, I think it's counterproductive. I think you guys included a myth in your debunking of another :). Also, the difference in efficiency between batch and fly sparging comes down to the SG of the wort left behind in the tun. In batch sparging, that SG is pretty much equal to the gravity of your batch runoff, so the more absorbtion and deadspace losses you have, the worse your sparge efficiency. In fly sparging, as you say, channeling is the big issue, in that the SG throughout the grain is not uniform and there may be pockets with a lot of sugars even if the SG at the end of your sparge is very low. Either way can give you excellent efficiency, and both suffer from their own system and equipement limitations.

About autolysis; i read somewhere -- (couldnt find the source, ill post it if i do) -- that when the yeast start running out of nutrients & food (or are under other stresses like temperature swings which you mentioned), other yeast cells will kill themselves (autolysis) in order to provide the other cells with their nutrients (this is common with many injured cells and dying tissue). So its not autolysis due to high pressure (which would be cytolysis) like you guys mentioned with industrial breweries, but would still be a phenomenon that happens at the home brew level, where reducing the yeast cake (racking to secondary) would help. Maybe Autolysis is being used as an umbrella term for all cell death, but to reduce specifically autolysis, racking to secondary should help. What do you guys think?

Disagree on a couple points boys, some don't care about the efficiency where 2% swing is the benefit. Fly sparge is much much faster than batch sparging. Batch sparging will cause you to upset the grain bed which has become a great filter. If you guys are getting slow runoff then look at your mash tun setup, I never ever get a stuck mash or slow one. Once you stir up the grain bed then you have to vorlauf all over again, and if you recirculate then batch sparge makes little sense unless you want to add another 30-45 minutes to your brewday by recirculating to clarity. If you are using coolers and moving water manually then batch sparge might make sense. Try doing a pilsner without a secondary and you will understand the benefit of a secondary. You may not notice any off flavors in big beers, but do a sessionable SMSH brew and there is a perceivable difference in the beer that was transferred to secondary getting it off the trub is important even if the yeast cake covers it.. SJPorr comment below to add your updates to HBW will increase your viewership. Cheers boys!

Great advice although I do disagree with the secondary dry hopping technique. I can honestly say I've tried this multiple times and the secondary dry hopping does make a difference within the beer. Recently I just dry hop in the keg because I don't do secondary anymore with my IPAs. Although I would love to check out your dry hopping techniques. Cheers

Very enjoyable video guys! Have you heard about Homebrew Wednesday? This content would work perfectly as HBW. Cheers

Great video! Exactly what I needed. Where can I find tulip glasses like that?!

Good tips. Just found and subbed you. Look forward to more great content. Cheers 🍻

Watching the video now but can't take my eyes off the "kegs" behind you.... What are they? Where can they be had? What type of valves are on them?

Could you guys a do a video about fermentation and show where you keep your fermenters maybe even a DIY fermentation chamber?

First time watching, long time "brewtuber". Thanks for the video! I don't secondary beer unless I need the primary fermented space for some reason and can't get it kegged. Liked and subscribed. What kind of glass are you guys drinking from? I'd like to get my hand on one. Cheers!

I am brewing a Russian Imperial Stout! Would you leave the brew in primary for ten months?

You two Rock.. Thank you for the very important info.

Second fermentation is required when mash conversion occurs. Second fermentation isn't needed when high modified malt is soaked in hot water at a single temperature for an hour due to sugar imbalanced wort caused by the method. When brewers grade malt is used along with a Beta rest, complex sugar, maltose and maltotriose forms from glucose released by Alpha during saccharification. Yeast cannot deal with complex sugar, only simple sugar. During second fermentation another conversion takes place when an enzyme within yeast converts maltose into glucose and gravity reduces closer to expected gravity. During the aging cycle the same thing happens with maltotriose and natural carbonation occurs. Batch sparging is a terrible process. It causes beer to rapidly deteriorate due to protein sludge carried over into fermentation. Back in the day when paupers beer was produced brewers purchased spent mash to produce it. Since, a filter bed catches goop, the spent mash was full of protein gum and it could not be fly sparged without causing a stuck sparge. Water was added a few times and the mash was stirred to allow extract and sludge to run through the false bottom. When all of the extract was collected it was allowed to settle and it was racked off the sludge. After the wort was boiled it was cooled and allowed to settle, racked off, and yeast was added. Myths and legends were born on the same day as the internet.

Is it true we as home brewers need to really worry about hot side aeration? I am not sure if this was already covered. Also, what kind of off flavors would be produced fermenting with lager yeast at ale temps?

Secondary fermentation is required when a conversion rest is used with brewers grade malt. When conversion take place the final product does not need the addition of priming sugar or CO2 injection for carbonation. Since, high modified home brew malt lacks Beta amylase the rest is omitted in home brew recipes making secondary fermentation a myth in homebrew but not in authentic Ale and Lager. Oxidation occurs when poor brewing procedures are used. Batch sparging flushes all of the gunk that the filter bed is supposed to catch, into the keg. Infusion brewing methods create chemically imbalanced wort. The imbalances occur when the extract is boiling in the wort boiler which is too far down the line. Off flavors develop during fermentation and continue through conditioning which causes the beer to taste different in two weeks time. The beer is unstable. When mash is boiling chemicals precipitate. In the decoction method, the boiling mash containing chemicals is added into the main mash to activate enzymes. The enzymes change the chemicals into nutrients and vitamins. Wort from the decoction method is stabile, rich in nutrients and chemically balanced which eliminates off flavors and poor aging characteristics of homebrew. I agree 100% about myths in homebrewing because home brew is homebrew and Ale is Ale. There is a difference.

In which case is fly sparge more efficient? I've seen a better efficiency since I switch from batch sparge, but you are making me reconsider the reason for this

Does pressure brewing increase the risk of autolysis? You mention pressure on the yeast cake in conical fermenters so I wonder if the same applies with pressure cap fermenting?

I had a Guy at the brew shop tell me that transferring hot wort to a fermentor will cause off flavors I’ve looked on the Internet I’ve had a hard time finding anything that supports this i’m using high temp silicone hoses and a spike brewing stainless steel conical so I don’t see any leaching flavors from those two items by having hot liquid in them

Don’t know if you’ll see this... it’s a little late. But please do a “Myth of the week” on your podcast!

Nice Backwoods Brewing sign!

What are your thoughts on using a hop spider during the boil and whirlpool for a New England? Do the hops from the boil add anything to the beer once in the fermenter?

Really nice video what are those things behind you ?

Does the secondary fermentation advice also apply to a lager?

How long should it be left in the primary?

Let's get rid of the potential issue of contamination or contact with air in a system where the liquid is pushed from the primary to the CO2 purged secondary with CO2, is there any advantage then of using secondary vessel then?

Hi Guys, great vids full of excellent real-world down to earth advice. I'd like to hear you views on oxygenating the wort before adding the yeast, I've never done anything more than add the wort to the fermentation vessel from a height in a way that creates as much agitation as possible. I've seen recommendations of using fish tank pumps or even oxygen cylinders but since I've never had a problem with fermentation (although I always use a 3 day starter made from 2 packs of dried yeast) these steps seem to add more danger of infection than benefit, what do you think?

How many degrees F do you consider a huge temperature swing while fermenting? Thanks. Good show.

Another great vid! Thoughts on doing overnight mashing? Since you mention batch sparging, does water to grain ratio really even matter during the sparge?

I believe secondary is needed for fruit additions and not everyone kegs, and I find that secondary lets me bulk age a beer. As for risks, if you follow good practice you will not oxidise a beer, and TIP i give a blast of CO2, esp when moving a mead, as that is more sensitive than any beer.

Is 61-70 degrees between day and night time considered a huge temperature swing? Cuz that's my crawl space in the summer

What are the vessels in the background?

Ok I liked and prescribed so now for the interrogation part. What is the myth for stainless steel brew pot compared to aluminum brew pot. This will be a homebrew question so the boil will not be over 90 minutes Homebrew.

Dangit! I just put my coffee stout in a secondary after 10 days. But, dang it tastes good so far!

I have a question about fly sparging vs brew in a bag or batch sparging for that matter. I started brewing in 94' and continue to fly sparge. One reason being is I like to vorlauf to get a clear wort. Other methods tend to leave a very cloudy wort. Yes, a good boil and whirlfloc/irish moss should coagulate the proteins, but I have always been of mind that the brewers of old had already been through these processes and do certain procedures for a reason. I get that the other methods may be faster, but I am wondering why no one talks about boiling cloudy worts filled with small malt particulate matter? What do you think?

Don't won't to be that guy but.. there is a difference between a secondary vessel and a secondary fermentation. In the bottle you have a secondary fermentation if you prime it yes. But a secondary vessel is not a secondary fermentation by it self. Have to do some beer myths videos my self love em. Great work keep up the good work! Cheers guys. And... why is the Gnome jumping?

so you would recommend re-stirring the mash in an "English Sparge"? (i've heard people call a batch sparge where you leave it English. Not sure where that came from) I thought disturbing the grain bed was a no-no?

BIAB question, no sparge full volume mash vs traditional mash thickness and then sparging, what is most efficient and if sparging, is dropping bag into a separate vessel that has the heated sparge water the best method and then stirring?

Great video

My local brewery is in my basement! Just kidding. Great video. I make all bottle conditioned belgian style brew

Nice video

Hey guys could you do a video on flavour additions after fermentation at bottling time. I would like to split my batches half way through bottling add something to change it up and continue bottling. Looking for info specifically on chocolate or coffee vanilla peanut butter etc. Thanks guys

On the video, we see plastic keg. Do you reeuse them or they are single use?

if you don't do a secondary fermentation, how long should the fermented beer sit in the fermenter till it is bottled?

Good bud guys.

Brew question. I was researching how people with kegging systems filter their beer through a small inter tube filter. Can you do this if you plan on bottling or would this filter out any remaining yeast and as result limit carbonation during bottling

where is the guy on the left in news video?

Does krausening a bottled ale constitute bottle conditioning? Will krausening be derogatory to the finished product?

Keep on hearing that when bottling that brown bottles are better than green ones. Any truth to this ? Any unbiased testing done?

Can I primary for 2 weeks, secondary with fruit (apricot purée) for 2 weeks and then ferment in a third for 1 week?

Hi first time brewing. My brew is very close to the final gravity reading. I've had my beer fermenting for 2 weeks. When should I bottle it?

I have only been brewing for a year, I've never done a secondary, but I have what I would consider a candidate. I want to make a clone of Dragon's Milk. It's high ABV, needs a double pitch of yeast, and takes (according to the recipe) a month in Primary. Then you move it to a secondary for oaking and adding the vanilla bean and, in my case, a tincture of cinnamon and 12 oz of Maker's Mark. It is supposed to be in secondary for 1-2 months and then bottle conditioned for another month. This requires a secondary, don't you think? Also, oaking in primary versus secondary - any advice? My medium oak chips have been soaking in whisky for 3 weeks, so they are ready to go, either way. Always enjoy seeing your new videos - you guys rock! Cheers.

Is it true that DMS is introduced to the wort if you boil with the lid on?

What would you say if i have say 6l of liguid per kilo of malt to begin my mash, no sparge at all. circulation on to top of malt from the bottom of my masher. Will this affect efficiency or other factors?? i dont really mind losing 2-3% of efficiency. Other thing id like to ask on the kegging is if i drop from primary after coldcrash, straight from the tap. It will drop some yeast in too probably, will this yeast then come out for like first few glasses? I added a bag wiht string to hang inside the keg and the hop aroma is pretty nice from that but would still be interested if i could worry less on getting yeast in keg and not use a siphon. Thanks and happy brewing!

my father used to the red wine without secandary fermentation but how ?i am researching it

Maybe you guys could answer this question in your next video. Is it necessary to use food grade co2 or is industrial grade sufficient?

Like your t-shirt "it's easier to go down a hill" where did you get it?

Any thought regarding not using a chiller? Its one piece of equipment i dont use currently, i just throw a lid on the kettle at end of boil and leave it till the next day before transferring to primary, all beers so far (quite a few) have turned out great. Can this be a benefit to better beer ?

How long can I leave a beer in the fermenter? Say I want to brew a stout with ca. 5% alcohol, but I also want to include barrel chips which, if I'm not mistaken, have to stay in contact with the beer for more than 2 weeks for a good result. My beer's fermentation will be done after 1 week. Can I leave it for an extra 2 to 3 weeks in the fermenter after it's finished so I can get all the aromas and flavors from the chips?

When did Zach Galafanakis and Ryan Reynolds start brewing beer?

Ive been brewing hard cider recently and it's turned out pretty well but i think i could improve it! My previous recipes typically took 7-10 days to brew then i bottled from there. But after a month or so in the bottles the clarity and taste has massively improved! Would it be worth me leaving in the primary fermenter for even longer, maybe 4 weeks or so? And would racking into a second demojohn to bulk age help the taste? Thanks!

Y'all are funny!

but... a secondary fermentation is need it if you are going to infuse the beer with fruit... right?

So does secondary fermentation not increase the ABV %?

Secondary fermentation is a myth because homebrew doesn't require a conversion rest, ale and lager do.

Thanks dudes!

0 min addition. My #1 pet peeve with Beersmith. Love the software otherwise, but their 0 min calculations suck. For example, brewed a session IPA. oz of Citra and Galaxy at 0 mins......0 IBUs, but cool the wort down to 180F, and whirlpool another oz of each Citra and Galaxy for 20mins, and it adds 6.1IBUs for the Citra and 7.2IBUs for the Galaxy. How can you have some IBUs at 180F, but absolutely none at a 0min addition at 212F? Makes no sense.

good stuff!

What are the glasses you boys are using called?

spirit fingers! also: I miss Logan

Some imperial stout recipes call for a secondary incubation of 4 months, or even longer. Is it really a good idea to leave the beer on the trub for THAT long?

@genusbrewing Sup guys Want it to know whats your take on hot cubing.