To use the words you were using, you are giving us good information. And I thank you for it. Considering to build a similar rigg and I found the clear path servo motors just the other day. You have now convinced me that they are the real deal. Keep doin' what you're doin'. You are a great source of inspiration and knowledge. Very best.
Hi Dave, I was the Guy that recomended you the clear path servos! I started watching your videos about 3 years ago and you inspired me to build my own CNC That has been up and working for some time now. Thank you for providing all those Great videos
Hello. That was a great video and congratulations, it not an easy task to make the correct connection and programing of Synchronous servos. I have not acquired much experience with automation technology, but I like mechanics and electronics, and now I am building a CNC machine on a low budget (very low) basically I am scrapping factories surplus and used material and buing them by the wheight. Sometimes you find very good components in this places.. I have acquired 3 Danfoss ISD 401 part number 175g7000 synchronou drive-servo motors, I have also found a small L transmition with a 1:1 ratio, very handy to install the motors on the horizontal position for the top of the Z Axis on the gantry, and on the side of the gantry to serve the Z table. These servos are permanebt magnet stators and are integrated with the drives... They have a 10 Nm torque and a tension of 300 Vdc with a current of 4.4 amps. The drives are IEC 61131-2 PLC. Since my programing is not very ripe I am kind of lost on how I will connect this servos on the Mach3 g-code signals. I have 2 frequency inverters , 1 WEQ CFW 10 0 - 3000 hz and 1 Siemens Micromaster 420 that deliver 0 - 750 hz , both have 2 phases 0 - 220 va ..I dont know if the gcode language is understood or even received by this Frequency inverters. I also have 3 Nema 23 steppers and I think I already have a more solid understanding of the connection of this motors. But I really liked the idea of using these servos instead , specially because of theyr higher torque.. My machine will be 1000 mmX 1000 mm X 400 mm. I am giving this 1000mm allowence on the Y axis so I can make some large millings. And have this clearance on the side you can actualy design a larger part in sections and you can push a board or sheet of material through and have infinit Y axis .. My intentions are to mill 3d sculptures on wooden door faces ,. ( and also some other ideias..) From the first day I was determined to build this machine and started to invest time and money on it is about 3 months., I designed the whole mechanical structur in the Autodesk Inventor, and I already have all the aluminum extrusion that I am using as a modular structure for all axis sliding tables. I am reinforcing the critical pressure points with 15 mm thick alluminum sheets. the gantry are 45 mm thick.. I am only missing the ball screws. I have some belt pulleys , but i will probably opt for the scews.. I am not sure how belts will behave.. However they are a more unexpensive option than ball screws.. I have 6X 1000 mm linear rails. I think it will be a very nice tool when it is done. Can i ask you to please give me a short path on this one, if I have to go along all the way to learn the whole programing logic to be able to determine a basic schematics to get the sofware g code signal all the way to the Servo motor and configue it to my machine , it will take me a lot more time and cost me a lot more money to finish my machine and have it up and running like yours.. Please i apreciate any help you can give by indicating the correct components and the set up of installation.. Like I said, I wish i was going by myself through the whole process.. But i also have need to finish this machine as soon as possible because i need it to generate income.. The next ones i will be able to improve and will have plainty of time to think through the whole process.. But right now i may need a hand.. My e mail is fmpenas@gmail.com if you have any diagram in PDF and if you can explain to me this step of the process I will be very gratefull. Thank you
We are actually looking at using ClearPath motors to build a new CNC but I will say if you buy the correct motor drivers you can get near to zero sounding motors. We just upgraded from those bad TB6560 drivers to some new ones the model is 2DM542 which is about 40 to 50$ a driver. These work really well and the motors are not hot at all either these drivers are actually digital drivers they use an arm processor to optimize the controlling of the stepper motor itself. I'm not sure too much about the specifications but with 25,600 steps per revolution, I cannot complain about the pure smoothness, accuracy, and strength. I look forward to seeing how ClearPath competes with high-quality Stepper Motor Drivers.
Thanks for this video. You’ve answered so many questions I had! Packing the frame of your CNC with sand might dampen some of that resonance and potentially improve surface finish. I believe ThisOldTony did it to his home made CNC machine.
Thanks for the video Sr. it's really a breakthrought in automation, what you really gets for the price incomparison with a standard stepper motor is totally worthy it! Why in the world we didn't hear about it earlier?
Nice little machine. I love clearpath.. I have actually use one with a 4:1 gear reduction connected to a 1.5in dia 1in lead 6ft ball screw to move a custom nefpress machine slide table (5ftx2.5ft) which was aluminium table with a die that when loaded weighed around 450lbs and only ran on roller bearings for 4 inches then slid across uhmw for the rest of the 5ft so quite a bit of resistance.. I was able to get a stable 6 second travel, or 600ipm using one of these beasts.I was able to get an unstable 4sec or 900ipm but only had about 85% reliability.
Fantastic vid man! I haven't been keeping up lately but every now and then I check up on what you're up to. These recently came to my attention and your vid came up in a search. They look awesome! It makes me want to build something that can use them, or heaven forbid retrofit my Tormach mill or lathe to use them haha. Have a good one!
I would tend to use stepper motors over servo due to the fact that a servo is an error follower. There is always some lag between the desired trajectory and actual. Steppers simply move when they are supposed to. You can get better results on some precision machinery with a stepper system. Larger machines almost always use servos though due to their increased speed and torque capability.
A stepper will also have following error as well. During normal operation a stepper could be anywhere from dead nuts on, to half a step off, and you'd never know the difference. That's why when you go to really high micro-stepping, you don't get much added precision (just smoother operation). For the average 200 step stepper, best resolution you'll get is 400/rev, Maybe 800/rev if you're lucky. Clearpath seems to use a 12,800cnt internal encoder with commandable resolution starting at 800cnts/rev, up to 6400 cnts/rev
Optical closed loop and so quiet. $800 for 3 motors ouch! Great vid. production, everyone should buy a lapel mic, cost only @$20. Wireless pyle lapel are good at same price + phono plug adapter.
Hi David, considering these for my surface grinder retro fit, still getting some (random) motor slip, losing step counts sucks for homing, so the encoder is very appealing.
Once you try servo motors, Its hard to go back to steppers. As you mentioned in video, stepper toque drops to nearly zero at only 1000rpm. Even if you buy big Nema34, after you reach 1000rpm, youre done. With servo, torque is constant up to rated speed, and you also have overshoot which is in most cases 3 times rated power for few moments, when you need that extra boost. Steppers are only for hobby grade machines, as your really cant be sure when its going to loose some steps.
Dude i think you should grab a chinese 2.2k water cooled spindle, it will be like night and day compared to a router. I love mine i cant see myself ever using a router. Im actually planning to make a hotswap for a high torque mill spindle from a minimill for switching between them. Informative video for sure though..im going to be rebuilding my cncrouterparts pro4824 in about 6 weeks and i plan to go with servos and also dumping the god awful v-groove bearings for linear carriges and yhe rack and pinion for ballscrews...im excited.
ball screw noise feeding into case and heard louder from the case that's holding it at 15:35 , sort of sound not getting dampened, try to dampen the noise
Great information as always David.. Think for most it will still be difficult to choose the right size servo... The same basically applies with steppers, what torque do i need... but with so many stepper driven systems we could always copy others... With servo's it would be so great to be able to compare, let's say i have a 4Nm stepper, what type of servo would replace it.. anyhow, this video already helps a lot.. thanks for sharing.
Hi there I can see how the low noise and high speed is awesome, if you had a big size CNC bed. But in most cases, homemade CNC machines aren't that big. So the question is, when will the speed issue bee an advantage, as that is the main force for a server motor? I mean speed is given with the feed rate, witch again is given by the material of the objects. Now you made a nice wood object, and that took about 45min, I really doubt it, that a stepper motor, would be much slower, than that. So with that in mind, I think the cost issue is (in my case) 3 times more with those server motors, than with Nemo 34. I just think that it's kinda overkill with those nice server motors.
Sorry, I just noticed you are using a C10 breakout board to drive the servo. I will see if I can find out what a C10 board is, maybe I can just use the output of my controller which would be ideal for me.
Great vid David!! I just saw these motors for the first time the other day....they are so awesome!! With steppers, if you tune your motors for the fastest speeds with the table empty and then put a heavy part on it, you may have to re-tune the motors since they lose so much power at their top end. I love the fact that they interface with the controller just like the stepper you're replacing. I'm wondering about a controller with built in drivers like the hobbycnc boards. It drives the steppers directly. Since the ClearPath servo has the driver built into it, any idea if it can handle it? I'm sure this is a question for ClearPath, but I was pretty excited to see you do a vid on them. I haven't had enough time to keep up on every vid, but the title got me on this one!!!! Thanks!!! Mike
If they are are just closed loop dc motor, does that mean they have brushes in them? I used to have dc motors with encoder on them and it wasn't as good as steppers with encoders, They hold torque much better then dc motors, and are much cheaper.
This just blew my mind! Thx sooo much for sharing!! :) I'm thinking of building an x-carve or shapeoko; could I literally just swap in these motors, tune them with the Teknic software, and swap in a better power supply? Or is it more complicated than that?
Hi David. A while back you talked about the schneider electric mdrive motors. They seemed very similar to these ones. Did you ever have a chance to try them out? The reason I ask is because I have 4 of those (used ones I got from eBay a while back) and was thinking about using them. Do you still think they are good option? Thanks a lot for all your videos, I'm learning a ton from them!
So the C10 are able to control the servo drives?.. That answers 80% of my question bellow.. Now I think I will only need to know if all servos have the same programing language built in theyr drives, and I also need to know the pin connection of my motor.. Where to you plug the feedback signal into the C10?
Nice Job Neo7CNC! There are tree type of clearpath motor. If i want to used Mach3 which do you use SD,MC or SC? And where i can find those slide bearing table, Looks so porfessional
Very informative video, I haven't read much about servos, but they seem to be a very robust alternative to steppers. Where is the intro music from by the way?
i do understand your cnc is using servo motors on in this video, but, searching for KR33 i did not find any servo motor, this code corresponds for linear rail from THK. and according to your website, there are specified stepper motors "KL23H286" i am curious the full specs of your servos and price also....
Thanks for the video.... Because the Z travel so small and infrequently used compared to X and Y, what's your opinion about using these servos on the x and y and a stepper on z? This would save about $250 on the total install but still give you a relatively quite machine that moves very rapidly between cuts?
Hello David. What do we need besides the break out board in order to make these servos run? I try to understand how they work cause I saw that they have ready built-in drive controller. If I am correct, the following schema is : Power supply for ClearPath servos connected to the controller board , limit switches to controller and then USB cable to connect to the computer? Would you correct me if I'm wrong,please?
As cool as them being silent is, I don't think motor noise is relevant when you have a piece of carbide ripping through some aluminium at 30k RPM. NEMA 17 versions of these would be amazing for 3D printers though.
Hi Dave, Curios thought you maybe able to give some insight. If I had two clearpath servos on the same axis, ie dual rack pinion or ballscrew. How would the Autotune feature work with both motors on that axis. Hopefully you see this and have some thoughts to share. Cheers for the detailed information in your videos.
He, i was wondering. Is the drive also supporting the load of what it is driving to? If so, that would also be the reason why it is making so much noise. It is not preverable to load the driving shafts, because it will limits lifetime and will add additional wear. Cool controllers for the cnc machine. :) Jeff
David, thanks for doing this video. I've watched this one and the more technical one a few times now - can't believe Teknic haven't done better videos themselves. So, I'm actually thinking about making a motor control for my Kessler CineSlider (camera slider) using one of these motors. Problem is that I'm having a hard time choosing the right one since they have a million versions of their motors. Obviously I'd love a motor with some significant "oomph" so I can drive the rigs I need to (full size cinema setups) and I'm also looking at building a cable-cam using one of these motors. Would you recommend going with the SDHP motors (high torque) instead of the SDSK ones? Also - am I correct in assuming I can control these motors directly from something like a Arduino using a gShield?
The SDHP motors only have higher torque at high velocity (more power) The SDSK have the same peak torque but it starts drooping off sooner. You'd need to calculate what torques you need at various speed to firgure out which one you need (I'd guess you could get away with an SDSK). As to the Arduino, you should be able to control it directly without needing any shield.
Great information. But I would like a bit more information about the controller or lack there of. I can see Mach3, or maybe 4 in the back ground, but I assume there is still a breakout board some where? If I understand you correctly the driver is built into the unit? So on the control side you are using what? Thanks for your time!!
+Tim Petersen I can not comment on what he is using for a breakout but I can answer your question.. Teknic ClearPath servo's are what I recommended on most of my retrofits. The servo has everything built into the back(encoder and drive) with a micro USB port for tuning, you still need your breakout board depending on your setup will depend on what pin or type, Linuxcnc mach and uccnc would be a 25pin, other systems use upwards of 35pin and some now use USB Such as the UC300, which can also be used with mach via a plugin. This system is nice because you can now control a cnc with any windows based tablet that has a USB or micro USB. Hopes this helps.
Hi David, Thanks for the great video. I have always been interested in servos but believed that they were just not suitable for cnc conversion [at the hobby level]. But the ClearPath Servos seem like they would be a great fit. You mentioned that you were controlling the servos from you PC, via Mach3 and controlled by a Keling C10 breakout board. This is all standard stuff for steppers, but you indicated that it was also applicable to servo conversion. Is that correct? What about the power supplies to the servos. Are you using a separate 48v supply for each motor? Or are you powering all 3 from the one 48v power supply [obviously a separate supply from the one powering the breakout board]. Any information on the setup would be much appreciated as I am currently researching a suitable spec for the conversion of my G704 type milling machine. I thought I had settled on a spec, the the servos you have shown have made me think again, Thanks for the great info, Cheers from DownUnder... Jeff
Can you help with this Please I have this motor and It's drive and i have a 3 motor of it can i use it with my CNC ??? and what is the best board to use with this drives OMRON AC SERVO MOTOR : R88M-G20030T-S2 OMRON AC SERVO DRIVER : R88D-GT02H I used to use this motor and drive with PLC (Position control) with (+CW, -CW, +CCW, -CCW) what is the kind of board that can deal with this!!!
how does it work with ramping? do you have to tune the servs first, then see what the ramp maximum is and then say mach3/4/linuxcnc these values? Because i think if you say mach to accelerate and decelerate at 10 but the motor only can do 9 then the toolpath is not correct
love the servo motor pretty neat package as you said! listen is there a way i can send you some of my work that im looking to do and maybe you can advise me on the approach ? im new to the cnc work space although i own a desktop cnc for 2 years now and its been collecting dust since i been working more with my 3D printer since i been mostly on the AutoCAD and the prototyping stage of my Humanoid robot here at home, thanks for the upload and let me know if theirs a email i can shoot you down some files to look at
I am looking at upgrading my stepper motors on my G0704 with these Clearpath servo motors, but one thing I cannot find info on is the brake holding for the clearpath motors. is there any way you can test the brake holding. Example my z axes is about 35-40 lbs will these motors hold that weight when the machine is in a static position or off?
The ClearPath servos don't come with a break. I added one from Inertia Dynamics because the motor alone will not hold any weight when powered off or in an error condition. As far as the holding power while the servo is powered, That will depend on what drive mechanism you're using like leadscrew, ballscrew etc, What pitch is the screw, what voltage and what size motor (NEMA 23 or 34) your looking to use. I'd suggest contacting ClearPath to get that answer. Are you using counterweights in your current setup for the Z axis?
I have a Taig mill and have been having problems with the Z axis stepper loosing steps and stalling. I have purchased one of the ClearPath servo motors to replace that stepper. What I don't understand after going through the documentation is how to wire up the data wiring to my system. Currently I am using Mach3 and the MPS2000 controller that came with my mill. Do you drive yours directly out of your parallel port with the Step, Direction, and Enable or do you go through some other method?
Overall I'd have to agree. It's also "cleaner" wiring with their cables. Since the servos have their own controllers built it, it does make wiring neater and easier IMO.
I have been thinking... Consider that you Servo motors have accurate feedback, would you really need "End-stops", I think not... When dealing with Stepper Motors, with no Feedback, I think they'd be essential, but with Servos, I think they are overkill... I think you could get away, without them, altogether... Let me know what you think :-)
+nraynaud1 Interesting - I'm a Robotic Welding Technician... Anyone who knows Robotics, Starts and Ends a program at the "Home Position". 3D Printing and CNC are just variations of the Monster Robots that I program... I have been a part of the the implementation of several Robotic Welding Systems, Miller Robotic Welders, Fanuc, Motoman and others... Not even One of our robots had an End Stop... With servos, it's a waste of resources...
+nraynaud1 It's pretty clear to me that you know very little about Robotics and in particular Robotic Axis and Servos and/or operation... I am a Robotics Technician, so I ask myself... Does this guy have any sort of clue about what he's talking about... He can't even spell... Thanks for your input, but I'll disregard anything from you...
+nraynaud1 I speak 12 languages, but only read & write in 5 of them, including Mandarin and I'm slowly learning to read and write in Thai... So, really, you don't have a point... Good-bye
Hello there, about a year ago you did a review off schneider lexium motor, i would like to know your point of view in servo motor vs schneider's hybrid tchenology.
Hi, as i have now received my clearpath servos i am trying to figure out the instalation. for step and direction i connect the "Input A/B +/and - " just like the four leads on a normal stepper? These asr fewed like the two windings of a strpper? That right? Sorry- not beeing a native english speaker it is a tad harder (to understand) than i thought. greets flo
Would it be possible to build a cnc machine without using "mach3", just using Teknic ClearCore and write your own code for the control? Could you please explain what the CNC controller is doing outside the user interface?
You could. Mach3 is taking the gcode that's outputted from the CAD/CAM software and using that gcode to "tell" the motors of the CNC what to do. Speeds, direction, etc. There are other cnc controllers out there like AcornCNC, Masso and LinuxCNC that can get you away from Mach3.
Hello, I have her some Maxon Motors with the following data. Could you please take a view on it, if they are usable for a CNC Milling machine. I want to use it for wood, plastic and aluminium milling. Do I need a gearbox ? Maxon MMG118895 120W with encoder HED5540 Voltage 30V max rotation 11600/min max torque 120 mNm max current 5,24 rotation change 389 /V best regards huggy
16:54 dose it matter if it quiet its not camera slider. milling make noise and machine structure amplify it bcoz you frame is aluminium and you cut aluminium
I was comparing it to the "chop" you hear and feel when using stepper motors. That "chop" or cogging of the stepper motors causes the aluminum frame to ring. That vibration can impact the cut. This machine cuts aluminum with no issue and the cut quality is great.
Leonardo Huss, resumindo bem, servos são muito mais confiáveis para controlar uma máquina do que motores de passo sem custarem lá muito mais! Pessoalmente, concordo muito... Já vi a diferença na prática.
I drive a Ford Fiesta, it's LIKE a Ferrari..... NO, it's not! Nor will it ever be, no matter how much I polish it & make excuse for its inadequacies. Much like a stepper motor will never be a servo. Yes, the fiesta will get me from A to B. Oddly it will also perform its task in a cheaper manner. (like stepper). Now before I get roasted by stepper owners, I am not saying steppers are shit. I am just saying they are not servos & the only functional similarity they have in common is an ability to get from A to B. Which brings me to my point. I think the price comparison made in the comments & at the end of the video was unintentionally inaccurate. Comparing these to steppers & hybrid steppers still misses the point. Clearpath gives opportunity for the AVERAGE CNC builder to step (pardon the pun) into the servo realm with all its benefits. Look around, you're hard pressed to find second hand servos for this price. Let alone with a driver.... To clear up a few things: Stepper motors do have their place & there are some great stepper machines out there. No, I do not work for Teknics And I most certainly do NOT drive a Fiesta! I was merely making a point :)
Thanks for the video Sr. it's really a breakthrought in automation, what you really gets for the price incomparison with a standard stepper motor is totally worthy it! Why in the world we didn't hear about it earlier?
