A scene that captivated the world... the druglord Luther Mahoney is taken down by Kellerman, alongside Lewis and Stivers. Mike is my favorite detective and I fully stand by him in this situation.
"Game of Thrones" Breaking Bad" Walking Dead" "Sopranos" blah blah blah. "HLOTS" was the best American TV show ever made and this was the best scene in the series.
Also Hill Street Blues and St. Elsewhere, both of which paved the way for Homicide as an incredible network drama. Homicide is definitely one of the finest cop shows and television drama in general ever made! Imo it should've got more shine than NYPD or even The Wire.
I fucks with all B-more shows. I watch Homicide, the corner mini series, The wire and the Newer we own the city. If u like Homicide the show then read the book where most of season 1-3 were ripped right from. Great show and Great Book!!
It really pisses me off that Kellerman became the sole black sheep over this incident, when it was Lewis's idiotic and unlawful decision to beat-up his suspect, and then lose his gun.
One of the best scenes ever, especially when they come back to talk to G. I have the entire series on DVD. I still think it's the best thing that's ever been on network TV. The book is great too. I've read it at least three times.
If this was real life and not a TV show, Kellerman would have been justified all day long. He told Mahoney to drop the gun, which wouldn't really happen because it just gave Mahoney more time to shoot Lewis, and Mahoney refused.
@@brandonb3174 Yeah, in real life they would have just gone ahead as soon as they saw him pointing at another officer and it would have been legal. They do it all the time, it's standard procedure. There was no need for him to tell him to drop it and have that stand off. Now if he just had it in his hand, pointed at the ground, then they have to warn.
No one seems to mention this but right after the shooting as Giardello asks the detectives what happened, Kellerman smokes a cigarette after trying for a long time to quit smoking. I always found that very metaphorical or poetic, for lack of better words.
Maybe the most intense scene I have ever seen. BEST TV Drama ever! Outstanding acting and very realistic and true to Baltimore!!! Thanks a lot for posting AxisofJustice21! I watched every episode and have every episode! Plus I am from Baltimore. Ha ha! Go O's (and Ravens). :)
Yep. That is why this show and The Wire are my two favourite shows, didn't portray anyone as perfect. This is like how GRRM wrote his ASOIAF characters which I am a huge fan of, mainly grey and not your typical black and white where certain types were viewed as perfect and the other side as just evil.
L&O detectives and 2000s L&O:SVU detectives always felt like cops just doing a job, maybe struggling to keep their emotions in check here and there, never perfect. Criminal Intent detectives felt like the ones you're supposed to be impressed by, but the writing did intend to show their imperfections as well.
This shooting was 100% justified. He had a gun the whole time. He could have raised it up in a second. He also aimed at the them for several seconds. I do not understand why they got in trouble for this.
I really felt that Kellerman did the right thing but consequences of the shooting made it really not worth it, this was what he didn't think about (which would be hard to think about at the time)
Reed Diamond’s contract was not renewed as he felt his character went as far as he could go. So they wrote him out by having Stivers come forward and saying the gun was down and Lewis was no longer in danger. This came out during Falsone and Pembleton’s interrogation.
It’s ambiguous but no. This is not a 100 Percent justified shooting. There are two cops with guns drawn on Luther. Luther’s gun is raised but it’s down too.
I just watched Season 7 and after the way everybody turned on Kellerman, especially Stivers, I had to come back and see exactly what happened one more time. Now I hate Stivers even more than I did before. Mikey clearly asked if anyone had a problem, Meldick immediately said nope and Stivers shook her head no right away, yet later she accuses Kellerman of not only doing the wrong thing, but FORCING her to do the wrong thing, along with being responsible for all the cops who were later killed by Luther's psycho sister's henchmen. And because of Stivers, all the other cops treat Mikey like a total piece of shit. This was the one thing that pissed me off most after watching all those seasons of Homicide. Stivers was a BITCH.
And she was so pointless in the long run, seriously. Falsone, Ballard, Shepherd and Gharty were all poorly-written characters, sure, but they at least were given something else to do! Can anyone name even one other storyline that Stivers had?
Remember Molly Bowden? Junior Bunk was nephew to Luther Georgia Rae’s son. Junior shot at Stivers and missed and hit Molly an innocent witness that Stivers was interviewing. Also Junior attacked Lewis and Falsone he was shooting at Lewis. Then he shot Kellerman in the elbow. Before killing Judge Gibbons and then Jr Bunk took a gun from Tambellie’s (sp?) desk and killed 3 uniforms, wounded Ballard and Gereity (sp?) before being killed by Pembleton, Lewis,Giadello, Bayless and Kellerman.
Lewis was a fool and Stivers was worthless. But they received no consequences, and Kellerman was shafted. I am not a 'rah rah cops can do no wrong' type, but it really pissed me off how Kellerman got treated by his fellow detectives, and was blamed for everything that happened after Lewis choose to unlawfully beat-up Mahoney rather than arrest him.
@@mikespenser4013 actually I don't think Pembleton got a shot off. I think he froze like he did when Bayliss was shot. He wasn't a good shot by his own admission .He was cerebral but not good with a gun.
This scene was so powerful. Was the shooting legally justified? No. The gun was down and there was no immediate threat. But was it MORALLY justified? Damn straight. If I'm Mike Kellerman in that situation, I sleep fine. The bodies on Luther Mahoney's name were extensive, and after the beating Meldrick put on him, he might have got off again. With all that said, Mike and Teri should've smoked him as soon as they came through the door, when the gun was still up. Then the shooting would've been clean even legally.
Soldiers and cops are trained to aim for center of mass. Shooting at a person in the chest is hard enough. Shooting an arm or a leg even at close range is very difficult and not something you want to try in a stand-off situation.
Well, because it is. David Simon wrote the book that this show is based on and eventually went on to do some writing for Homicide: LotS. He also went on to write another book which The Wire was then based on.
The the I never got about Kellerman is he spent that time worried about his name during the arson scandal. He gets cleared then he just shoots Mahoney in cold blood. His interrogation sceen with him Pimbelton and Falsone was so powerful.
After rewatching that scene Pembleton went from being one of my favorite characters to one of my least favorite. He literally just came from being involved in a gun battle where his failure to react nearly killed his partner and friend Baylis. And now he is just so high and mighty dealing with a fellow detective. Kellerman should have taken it to trial. If nothing else it would bring to light Lewis's unlawful actions which led to the whole screwed-up mess in the first place.
@@charlesmartin1121 None of the guys were perfect . Frank Pembleton was competent,but difficult .Then , his indecision in the shoot out got Bayliss shot . John Munch was a constant pain in the behind , and caused big problems with Stu Garety . Meldrick Lewis was odd to say the least . He turned against Mike Kellerman , and , one of the female detectives , Shepard. Paul Falzone brought his family problems into work far too often .
That bothered me soo much that he is just standing there pointing a pistol at the guy with the slide locked back. I'm guessing the firearms people on set didn't want to have multiple rounds in the pistol for when he reholstered but still it is jarring to anyone who knows anything about firearms.
awesome show... the thrilling and eventual conclusion to the "luther mahoney saga!" homicide was such a cool detective show... i almost consider the series a precursor to another great detective show set in charm city: THE WIRE
Exactly. When first confronted by Kellerman and Stivers, Mahoney lowers the gun to his hip. But just before Kellerman shoots, Mahoney raised the gun to 45-50 degrees in Lewis's direction, his finger all along on the trigger.
Looked lowered to me. Also, I think he was legally justified in taking the pistol away from Lewis and pointing it at him. Lewis was banging his head against a safe, so it can be argued that they shot a guy who was just defending himself from some maniac that was trying to kill him in his own home. What clouds the issue is that he doesn't just drop the gun. Still the question a jury considers is not if he was armed. You don't get to kill someone because they are holding a firearm. The question was is the cop in reasonable fear for his life or that of the others present. I can see some cops in this situation feeling that way but Kellerman was walking towards him stating his miranada warnings. I don't think Kellerman believed the guy was going to shoot and if he didn't believe that then it was unjustified no matter what anyone else claims. The fact that kellerman asks if anyone has a problem with what he did suggests quite clearly that it was not a justified shooting in his mind.
It was justified but opened a can of worms dealing with Georgia Rae Mahoney & nightmare that destroyed Kellerman it seemed he became more aggressive in season 6 he even cut his hair down.
It was not Kellerman's actions which caused the war with the Mahoney clan--it was Lewis's unlawful actions. Because what Georgia Rae and Junior Bunk reacted to was Luther's bruised and beaten body. To say nothing of the fact that Lewis's failure to arrest Luther led directly to Kellerman's action. Lewis would have been royally screwed for his abusive actions had Luther been arrested by Kellerman and Stivers.
@@charlesmartin1121 this is very true, Georgia Rae starts coming after them because of the evidence of a beating. But Kellerman doesn't help things by telling her to her face that 'he had the pleasure of shooting your brother'. He seems to lose any intelligence in Season 6 and obviously goes into a downward spiral
After Meldrick fires at Mahoney the slide locked back meaning the gun was empty... when Mahoney took the gun, he racked the slide... the gun was empty, as the magazine was empty...
Go ahead and try to rack the slide on an empty gun while the magazine is inserted....See what happens. Meldricks gun did lock back....and remained so when he holstered...however when Luther worked the slide it went into battery . The slide won’t go into battery on an empty mag.
@@MrProfchaos71 I suspect it was a problem with the blanks they were using, or maybe the guns they used didn't like blanks. Kellerman's gun does the same thing if you pay attention after he shoots Mahoney.
The blanks might have not cooperated well with the gun, or the guns didn't like the blanks, guess it's how you look at it. If you look at Kellerman after he shoots Mahoney it does the same thing.
I was an am still a huge HLOTS fan. I have all 7 seasons and it will always be my favorite drama. I remember this scene well but watching it now I feel the same about Stivers she forced herself to be in a go along to get along mindset but I look at Lewis differently. Of course Kellerman did not have to shoot Luther but if Lewis had just handcuffed Mahoney and performed a standard arrest and not attempted to put a beat down on him all 3 of them would have been in a better place as colleagues. The relationship between Lewis and Kellerman changed after this. Please don't misunderstand my point. Kellerman shot Luther down...basically executed him so he is at fault the most but Lewis acted unlawfully first and then got his gun took. When I first saw this scene I didn't think about the actions of Lewis at all but he shoulders some blame in my eyes.
Lewis is totally to blame for bringing about this whole situation. If he had just arrested Luther none of what followed would have happened. And although he had lowered Meldrick's gun to his hip, Luther raised it again to about 45 degrees just before Kellerman shot him. Luther had the initiative, he could have rounded on any of them. If Luther had dropped the gun, Kellerman would clearly been in the wrong, but he did not after being warned 4 times. I think Kellerman became the scapegoat, as Lewis and Stivers got off scot free.
Whenever I watch this scene I wonder why Kellerman didn't just fire 30 seconds earlier. But then Luther still would have had signs of a beating, so it probably still would have caused a whole lot of trouble.
+AMC2283 The way it apparently shook out at the end of the following season was, Stivers testified that Luther wasn"t "aiming" the gun when Kellerman shot, therefore Kellerman was guilty of some kind of police brutality. Frankly, I don't think it would have played out that way in real life, and arguably shouldn't have, either. If the cop says "drop the gun" and you don't drop it, seems to me like the cop has a free shot, at least until the weapon is out of your hands. On the other hand, when Lewis beats the crap out of Luther, that's just plain police brutality, and I find it strange that neither the show's creators nor any RU-vid commenters I've seen so far have seem to have anything to say about that.
+Petronius Arbiter II it's pretty clear they meant for the shooting to be dirty. if it wasn't, all 3 versions of the story would have been the same, and they wouldn't have left anything out
+AMC2283 No, there's nothing ambiguous about the actual shooting, from 3:06 to 3:12 we see that technically, Stivers' later testimony was correct: Luther was holding the gun but not aiming it. Nevertheless, his hands wiggle in a manner suggestive of a possible intention for Luther to fire his weapon again. If I'd been in Kellerman's shoes, I don't think I would have taken a chance by asking Luther a SECOND time to drop the gun. I don't call that dirty. I call it exercising appropriate caution to protect his life and that of his fellow officers. ...But again, because of the beating, the overall takedown is dirty. Yet Lewis doesn't eventually lose his job, Kellerman resigns instead.
+Petronius Arbiter II oh believe me I know how it plays out, I've seen it many times. But there it is isn't it, 20 yrs later, and we can't agree on what happens, but that's how they wrote/filmed it, and it was masterful like the rest of the series
+AMC2283 I just find myself feeling like we're talking past each other. We DO agree what happens, at least I think we do: Luther was holding the gun but not aiming it. Seems to me we only disagree what the law says should be done with that information. I don't know of any court or any law in the land that would maintain that when a cop tells you to DROP THE GUN, you have any right to hang on to it. Not even for a single second. I have a lot of respect for suspect's rights, but I'd never carry it to that extreme; holding but not aiming is no excuse for still holding.
maybe it wasn't empty. maybe it was failure to eject or failure to feed. luther then racked the slide and cleared a malfunction and was ready to fire again. The gun empty after one shot? I don't think the cops are going around with just one bullet in a gun.
@@nenadsubic3283 It wasn't just Meldrick's gun. Kellerman's does the same thing when he shoots Mahoney. I suspect it was an issue with the guns not liking the blanks. Some guns can handle blanks better than others. Or it could of just been some weird thing they did where they only used one shot per mag. Maybe they were running low on blank ammo for multiple takes?
And failed to obey 4 clear warnings to drop the gun; and raised the gun from his hip before he was shot; and kept his finger on the trigger the whole time.
one of the best scenes on tv and this was such a well written show. the only thing that comes close on network tv now is the taut scripts of person of interest on cbs. ck that show out. love andre braugher in this seris.
Statistically a lot of cops get shot with their own guns. So it's not that far-fetched. Meldrick could have been trying to apprehend Mahoney and they got into a scuffle and Luther managed to get his pistol. Mahoney isn't around to dispute the story.
Yeah, I heard that back in the day a lot of cops would keep the first chamber of their revolver empty in case they did get their gun taken from them. It gave them a chance to fight back before they got shot. Heard similar stories with the H&K P7s since the guns had a squeeze cocker apparently there were instances where the gun would be taken from them but wouldn't be able to fire cuz they didn't know how to grip the pistol.
Either the gun didn't like the blanks or they were only loading one blank at a time for safety reasons? Not sure what was up with that. Kellerman's gun does the same thing after he shoots Luther.
"Who's this?" "Some bad guy. We're supposed to shoot him." "I'm not gonna shoot him. YOU shoot him." "I'M not gonna shoot him... I know! Let's get Mikey!"
Before The Wire, before it's time. A superb watch . Read the book both of those shows spring from. David Simons A year on the killing streets. Astounding
