It is only fun sometimes You might look at the characters you end up not using 4months from now and feel bad Thats what happened to me with genshin, so I did vertical for hsr Imo, a mix is best. Some characters have amazing e1/2 and their LC really help them, plenty are fine e0s0 tho
@@cookies23z maybe for open world games, I played wuwa and genshin for a bit and I definitely did not feel the need to pull new characters at all. But somehow in hsr it's really nice to have a range of characters you can test and play around with.
You really don't need much in the way of vertical investment, if you will then the best vertical investment is for supports who can slot into a variety of teams like Robin and Ruan mei where their signatures and e1/e2 make basically any team work. Once you have these fundamental characters built, you can basically horizontally invest everything else to have new characters to build and make new fun team comps.
And more in line with gacha brain too: collecting waifus/husbandos. In my case, I like horizontal more because my brain refuses to think ~20% damage increase is worth the same as a new character with a completely new model, voice line, animation, and all that stuff. If I struggle in endgame, 100% of my cases are never about whether I have a signature/eidolon or not, but other thing like gear or leveling talents.
Yeah I'm team horizontal as well. I've been able to clear all the endgame modes at max rewards with E0S0 units since December or so. My relics are FAR from optimal as well lol. That being said, I have had to be creative with teams and work more for my clears some of the time. I enjoy that process, but I know some people just want to breeze thru the endgame, collect rewards, and move onto the next thing. To each their own!
A balanced approach would be to horizontally pull all the different dps archetypes - DoT, Debuffs, FuA, Hypercarry, etc just E0 S0 or S1 at the most (make sure to not overlap same type of dps/LC to save pulls) and then vertical invest into the harmony supports that are incredibly essential for these archetypes and have much longer staying power in the meta... Get these ones to E1/E2 S1.
What I do is mostly pull E0 with their sig if its too important for that chara (like Acheron) otherwise just E0 with 4 star/5 star std LC, I have dots (Kafka & BS), hypercarry (all elements but some element dps I use 4*) & SB teams but not FuA team. Gonna start with pulling Robin when she reruns because harmony is more universal than DPS. Any character that have too much overlap I'll skip like Yunli & Sparkle (I have Clara E1 & Bronya E3).
@@jaguh9069 Honestly the only Sig that's actually felt *needed* is Yunli's, because she actually needs an effect from it she can't get without comp building. It's solely so as to A) not have to build Lynx and B) because we don't know what units are coming that Hoyo intends to synergize with her taunt needs (because I have to imagine something is). And her LC will probably go down in value when that happens. And even then, I wouldn't pull for it unless I was whaling. If I *really* wanted to use Yunli I'd just build Lynx. Though this LC is clearly in a brand new category of "need" when it comes to building, because she flat out doesn't function the same way without a taunt application and you have to provide it from either a specific character or a specific LC. But thankfully, that character is F2P and not even gacha, so it isn't actually a *need.* But it is extraordinarily nice to have compared to all other LC values. Acheron's Sig is very nice and VERY powerful, but she'll still wipe the board with basically anything without it. To my knowledge, Blade's is the only other character with the same distance in damage between having their Sig and not having it. And I still wouldn't say it was necessary for Blade (even when, unlike Acheron, he won't just easily decimate everything without it). Yunli won't even come close to the same performance without either the LC or Lynx, because she'll actually operate differently. But since Lynx is immediately available and F2P, and has no real competition for any other teams, it's not actually *needed.* But I would say it's more important than any sig LC.
Hoyo is smarter in HSR than they were in Genshin. If you've noticed, since DHIL, they've been putting more power into E2 for DPS and E1 for Supports (Harmony E1s are crazy busted compared to E0, like Robin) They're way ahead of the community when it comes to something like this. Just the fact that the best DPS examples are FF and Acheron (and even DHIL) whose playstyles/teamcomp drastically and fundamentally change with their E1/E2 (FF E0 is very different from FF E1, and the fact that we have separate teams for Acheron E0 and E2 is crazy). They know the middle ground will be the choice of players, and it shows. It's also concerning that Light Cones have been drastically more specific as each character releases. The gap between their signature LC and the next best is getting wider and wider. This is particularly true to DPS, a good example is Acheron. This might ruffle some feathers but E0S0 Acheron is not Tier 0 like FF is at E0S0. Acheron without her LC is drastically weaker than she is without, she misses ultimate ticks. And it's sad to say Yunli is the same, she's functionally different without her LC. Hoyo knows how to make people spend. Unfortunately, they've been getting greedy.
Yeah coming from honkai impact myself, I've hated how genshin has changed everything. The trend of multiple copies being significant upgrades never used to be a thing (and was never a thing at all for gear in honkai impact), sure you could get multiple character copies for SS or SSS rank but they generally weren't THAT impactful maybe 20-30% numerical damage buffs, and you only needed them if you wanted to retain in the ultra prestigous top 100 abyss, which is entirely pointless (the extra crystals you get are pitiful its just bragging rights). I especially hate how E2's are now these massive differences in terms of QoL or ease of use. Like firefly's extra turns are just mental and her not using skillpoints is game changing. And acheron generating an extra stack and needing one less nihility is super handy. It's a shit trend, sure give characters some more power but make them numerical buffs like some more pen, some more def ignore and stuff like that, and don't make it outrageous it just feels bad if you don't get it otherwise. But again, it works, so they do it and it sucks.
Genshin also the same by putting most of the character power in C2 like Raiden but since 4.0 its getting much more obvious. Some character kits even locked behind C1 like wriosthesley. So its definitely not something new for their business model.
@@jaguh9069 yeah I saw Siegwinne's kit and how utterly lackluster it was, and her C1 and C2 actually give her the utility and support ability to be kind of good in off-field dps teams, but those things should have been part of her base kit and even then she'd be mediocre. And then the worst part, she can't even reliably reach the cap of hp without her gacha weapon which you can only exclusively use on her because it has a mechanic built in about getting 'bond of life' which she can get, which has 0 application in her base kit, it purely exists as an enabler for her signature weapon to give her more max hp. It's laughable how that character is so clearly designed in every way to be as consumer unfriendly as possible.
@@netneo4038well I honestly think it's because in genshin you don't really need constellations signature weapons you can clear everything with just 4 stars
@@anighazaryan1125 that kind of makes the feeling worse though. Because its not about needing the power, its about the fun of building the character and the teams, and knowing chunks of your mechanics or bonuses are locked behind your wallet are awful feelings. Siegwinne is a perfect example of that, like why is her signature weapon designed to exclusively work with her, what's the point of that other than to fuck you over? Because power isn't extremely important in genshin those anti-player decisions just make it so much worse.
I balance it out with my diagonal investment: Get the character, then get lightcone if possible and S1 in a rerun if its game changing. Only spend on monthly pass and sometimes battle pass (which I recommend to newer players that may want something cost effective).
Honestly, the monthly pass and battle pass gives so many ressources. If you do not mind spending a bit of money, spend it on those two things. They're incredibly efficient in terms of money spent for ressources gotten. It's also incredibly easy to fill out the battle pass completely. I play the daily quests every day (takes 5 minutes per day) and do the weekly pass thing every week and play every event during that time. It doesn't take a long time at all. That being said, HSR really respects your time. The fact we can store energy up to 2400, is awesome. The fact they don't have that in every single one of their games is insane to me. Like, ZZZ is their newest game. It should have that feature from v1.0.
I just go all in on support (cuz u can't really power creep a support as easily as a dps) and every 3-4 patches I get a new dps (cuz that's usually how long a dps lasts before power creep). And yes get the monthly and battle pass they are soo valuable especially for low spenders/new players.
I only spend occasionally but I also do diagonal investment. Not for all characters though. Eg I only have Topaz E0 and Ruan Mei E1 with their signatures, Clara with Yunli signature, and E0S0 for everyone else
@@Da_Donke_Lord True, the limited supports have more use in teams even though for Sparkle right now is more for older DPS and E2 Acheron, but that does not mean she wont be useful in the future.
@@XiasGaming said that to my Blade who still only have 58% crit rate thank to my luck relics . He something miss crit 🤦 Or substats level up does not go to crit rate & damage not even once . And this when I equip with him with HP relics set . 42% + 16%
Going to talk about it from a f2p perspective. I'm generally a big fan of vertical investing and pushing the limits with my favorite character, but I have to say SR quite strongly favors horizontal investment. First of all, theres 3 games modes, and different characters are better at each game mode. Not to mention the buff changes every reset and sometimes it's quite strong compared to the buffs in something like Genshin's abyss. In addition not being able to break the enemies will result in significantly slower clears, but this is most apparent in Apocalyptic Shadow where breaking the enemy is essential. Pure Fiction also feels like especially a character check since the buffs are usually VERY strong so you really want to have characters that can make good use of it. So why horizontal and not something like diagonal? Well, I'd argue that the game is balanced around E0S0 characters. If you have a team that matches well into the enemies, a decently invested E0S0 should be more than enough for a full clear (6000 PF, 20 cycles remaining MoC, 6600 AS). F2P players can generally get around 90 pulls a patch, which also happens to be around the average pulls it takes to get a banner character. This means they should be able to obtain around half the banner characters, which means if you just keep pulling characters you should have a pretty good answer into any piece of content. Keep in mind, this will make it more expensive to invest in all of said characters, but there are also ways to mitigate this. Farming efficient relic sets is important, as sometimes going for their best in slot isn't worth it compared to farming a more efficient cavern/sim uni world that can help build more characters at once. Or sometimes it's better to go for a 2pc 2pc combo instead of a 4pc. Not to mention this way you'll be able to experience as many of the playstyles this game has to offer as you can.
I got e2s2 Firefly and cleared MoC 36/36 AS 11/12 PF 11/12 My other team just sucks, takes like 8-10 for MoC and can't clear the other endgames fast enough Btw the account is about 3.5 months old
@@roywempor8395Acheron was basically a marketing mistake. They doomed all of their upcoming Nihility characters now with her. I believe devs know and are already finding a way to powercreep her by creating another playstyle.
@@trapchan386well, all characters are meta during their release. Using FF to clear endgame content that was made for her to clear is the least impressive thing tbh. Let's see how she performs once break is not meta anymore. That's how you judge thé true value of a DPS. And currently, only Hunt and Erudition units has gained value over time.
Don't hate me for saying this, but I wish this game model never came into existence. Some people spend reasonably, but it siphons off so much money from people who really shouldn't be spending it that it's insane to think about. It's incredibly predatory and hurts many young people who are often irresponsible.
nah I don’t think anyone is gonna hate for this because it is a fact that this game model is extremely predatory. Horror stories of children and even adults spending so much money on gacha games is proof of this
most successful businesses usually are the ones feeding from people weaknesses and addiction, if i were a president I will stop most of it, cuz it is the biggest reason why the rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer, and more money transfers from beneficial businesses to more useless ones like video games, smoking, alcohol, drugs, gambling, and entertainment.
Anyone that hates you for this is a gambling addict or a rich prick who feels better knowing others don't have what they do. It's a predatory system, it sucks because the game is really fun. Best thing to do is buy the $5 monthly pass and never directly buy currency. If you're really into the game you can even buy the battle pass. But anything else is silly, and can pull you into a bad situation.
Gacha is bad, there's no reason for it to exist other than to make it more likely for you to spend more money on something. But for some reason it works, but we all have to acknowledge its not a mechanic or feature made for the consumer's benefit. Nowhere else will you see people spend thousands of dollars on a game, and that's just for a single release of a new character. Maybe games like path of exile, which have garnered so much goodwill that people buy huge supporter packs (which include physical goods like shirts etc and offer 0 gameplay benefit other than skins) which still cost less than the average E6. It really does suck because the concept of gacha is exciting, pulling for a character not knowing how much you will need and how lucky you will be is inherently exciting. But those mechanics can exist, entirely without it being P2W. And honestly, despite me playing 3 different gacha games (i'm no whale though, very light spender like its an mmo), I do hope that the trend either dies down (unlikely with how much money it makes) or becomes regulated in some way, it's just not good for gaming. At the very least that the required spending at the top end falls down massively, like what if the maximum amount you could spend on a new release to get everything isn't thousands of dollars, but instead like a hundred dollars. That's still a lot of money if you think about it compared to other games, but it's not outrageous. And perhaps the regular player could get away with spending 5-10 bucks per release. But that won't happen, because a company isn't just going to cut their revenue to a tenth it was before. Not without being forced to do so.
I'm more in horizontal investment. But i have 4 S1 , From Acheron, RM, Jingliu and Jade. But my only E1 RM. I cleared any endgame easyly, right now just collecting more characters, is bored play the same team. PS: i'm day 1 HSR player, 358 dolars spent in my journey so far.
Damn. im a f2p and I can't clear any MOC 10+ because of one thing and one thing only. Lack of a proper sustain(Gallagher is built but only e1, my only other built character is Lynx that can barely be considered well built)
Horizontal i think is just better but also unsafe for f2p if you too wide. Whereas vertical is good if you make good investments but then your account isnt as fun since you only have like two teams for 8 months.
i do vertical investment personally, but i get that it gets a bit hard to wait and save around, especially with some endgame modes that make it really not fun when you do not have the current dps that lends itself towards that playstyle (such as break/fire/phys etc.) this last apocalyptic shadow made me want to scream without firefly and break-teams in general lol. but i do have e6 robin only and that helps with one side for sure... i just prefer investing into one character rather than a lot of e0 characters.
@@XiasGaminghm idk, maybe this person doesn't care about any of the caarcters you mentioned. I am sorry, but getting a caracters E6 means 7 copies but in the list you just showed, you need like 13 copies There is no way you can compare 13 copies to 7 copies
@@XiasGaming what? E0- 1 copie, S0- 1 copi, RM E0- 1 copie S0- 1 copie, Boot E0- 1 copie, S0- 1 copie, Acheron E0- 1 copie, S1- 2 copie, Jiao E0- 1 copie, S0- 1 copie, Robin E0- 1 copie, S0- 1copie If you count, it's 1 copie + 1 copie +....+ 1 copie=13 copie Oh never mind, i have reread your comment......who puts S0 for no light cone? Might aswell killed the S0 and just let S1 on Acheron So that means, 7 copies....oh ok then, sorry again
I definitely agree with that decision as vertical investment provides more exponential returns in the form of eidolons for specific 5-star characters that ensures much more versatility in team selection such as E1 S1 Robin providing support for more teams compared to E0 S1 Sparkle and E0 S0 Loucha.
Same...but only because I didnt pull for any new unit since Aventurine. I've just levelled everybody at 80/80, and am starting to 10/10/10 everybody. Even created a sheet on which relics and planars to farm for. And also created a sheet of which LCs and eidolons to get on rerun. I dont NEED it. I can 3-star everything with E0S0 characters, but if Hoyo barely release interesting characters anyway, I may as well invest in the characters I like.
This video came at the perfect time, I was just thinking about grabbing E1 Sparkle on her rerun since she's one of my best characters and that extra step to E2 would be juicy. That being said, I see people considering Eidolons and LC's in a pretty unhealthy way. Remember, this is a single player RPG. The ideal way to play this game as a F2P is to skip banners fairly often, only pull the characters you love, and only pull them at E0, maybe get the LC if you get lucky with rolls. Then, if you still like them after several months, is the point when you pull Eidolons and LC's on their rerun, and only if something new you want isn’t nearby. People in the community insist that because the new DPS is stronger than the last and they raised the HP pools of MoC12 that any old DPS is dead, any support that isn’t Ruan Mei or Robin are dead. So they pull the new shiny toy without finishing their build on their last shiny toy. Spend some time relic grinding, build up some of your standard banner characters and 4 stars, and you can probably still 36 star MoC and Apoc Shadow. I cleared the last one with Jingliu, the washed hag. It'll be fine.
For longevity I prefer vertical, such as investing in only my FAVORITE character like an E6S5 Blade since it's more about how I play the game rather than trying to clear everything and being effective and critically thinking about the game in an objective manner.
Massive respect for you. I have FF E1 and yet I always think too much about playing the game and even choosing what Calyxes to grind. Playing an out-meta char is truly the pinnacle of strategic thinking.
I agree with this, especially prioritizing building team archetypes. I always called it “diagonal” investment. My thesis (as a spender): - E1-E2 stopping point: I don’t think I’d ever E6 one 5* character because that’s all eggs in one basket (ie Seele example you gave). Would rather have multiple E1-E2s on a team. - If I’m pulling a character I’ll only do so if I can get the lightcone as well, if not I catch it on rerun. Reasoning: Personally I feel like I’m only getting half the character without it. I’ve never gone for copies, but JQ is the first 5* that’s making me consider prioritizing his lightcone copy over Eidelons, just so I can guarantee more baseline effective hit rate. The idea of having to sacrifice proper mainstat relics in favor of wtv has effective hit rate substat doesn’t sit well with me - Balancing waifu/admiration and powerlevel/gameplay: Boothill is cracked, but I’ll never pull him because I don’t really care for his character. Gonna be grinding to build these characters so I’d make sure I actually like them and not become a pure meta slave. Conversely I love Yukong as a side character in story, but I’ll never build her.
I’m at the point where my horizontal investment strategy has enabled me to full clear all of the endgame modes, and I’ve been able to maximize my enjoyment by having a great number of options that can clear (if barely) the final stages of endgame modes, which provides a fun challenge. Granted, I have generally good gacha luck and I’ve been playing since day 1, and I really just like collecting characters in general.
As a Spender/Whale myself, For DPS I am more into Horizontal Investment ie: E0S1 with very rare occasions I either don't get LC or Vertically invest some into the DPS. While for Supports, my Mood is more towards Vertically investing into them, and I did Vertically invest somewhat into Ruan Mei by getting her E1 on rerun and even more into Robin (E1S1) & Sparkle (E6S1), I also really like Sparkle, hence why I fully vertically invested into her. While most of my DPSes besides Acheron & Topaz are E0S0 or E0S1, Acheron being E2S1 and Topaz being E1S1. I think one can Balance it out by first getting a team for each Archetype (As having a DPS or 2 for each Archetype will give you an easier time clearing endgame content centered around that Archetype even if you don't have the most Meta unit for the Archetype, then afterwards doing some vertical investment into your Favorite characters or even supports/Archetype units (Ie: E1S1ing Topaz, E1S1ing Jade, Getting Aventurine's LC or even his E2, E1S1ing Robin, E1ing Ruan Mei, E1S1ing Jiaoqiu, and E2S1ing Sparkle (As an example) to boost your Archetype
im a horizontal player in genshin and after almost 4 years of playing, i actually regretted it. too many characters i dont even like and my fave characters could have been stronger if i pull constellations, that's why im changing my way in hsr, playing vertical with e2s1 dhil and only pulling husbando characters at e0s1 since im still a collector. i cleared all hard game contents even with bronya/tingyun/pela/e0 robin as supports. i fully support the gameplay that play whoever u like so it's less prone to burnout in the long run
honestly this is the answer. Pull for who you like and your love for that character will push you to keep improving them until they're good enough for endgame, regardless of meta
@@graceyan7544 thanks for getting it. also, hsr is a game that all 5 star they release are strong (unlike genshin lol) so you really wont get dissapointed
Mixed of both is the best for me as light spender. Right now I have good break, dot and hypercarry. I started FUA with Yunli + her LC + S0 Huohuo. I don't have premium fua like Aventurine + Robin however Yunli would cover my FUA team with existing support like Sparkle and Tingyun.
i havent watched the whole video yet but my take about the discussion would be the inital early game its probably better to horizontally invest mainly to cover all the bases such as one erudition dps that is likely longevous in pure fiction and is viable in moc, a good all round dps (generaly a destruction main dps or acheron) to cover all gamemodes and then a unit that can excel in apoc shadow and do well in MOC. Then you would ideally try to get supports that benefit the whole account like your robin, ruan mei and your sustains and if those necessary supports are in the banner while the dps you plan is not coming soon then pull on the support since even though you might not get the dps, having a support is better than no supports since you no sustain(except zero cyles) are stupid unless you can accomodate for the lack by not letting the enemies get a turn (for example welt black hole and cucking their actions with robin ult advance). then once you established a good core that can somewhat reliably clear. make the choice in switching to fully vertical or fuck all i want to gamble for people that enjoy horizontally investing and pulling i recommend farming for multiple good sets for universal sets. such as pioneer, genius(quantum set), grandduke, prisoner(is interchangeable between most DoT and is an excellent pick for 2pc 2pc combinations) and the eagle set(CN favorite for supports) or speed set(only need 2pc) and for planars either farm world 3, 7 or 8 and synthesize other niche sets. world 6 is a good pick if you run a follow up team core with aventurine. for those who want to fully vertical invest i would say the most important thing is to properly guage the value of a new support for the said character, their light cone and the eidolons since each one of them give a different scale of buffs, for example: e1 firefly is more recommended than e0s1 since you get more superbreak from harmony mc skill which means more energy and uptime and since you dont need to worry about skill points while e0s1 boothill is more recommended than e1s0 since you can generally get his stacks pretty quickly when mobs are there and s1 gives higher numbers for break dmg, while for Dr. Ratio its more important to have an e4+ pela with resolutions, silver wolf or topaz than his e1 or signature due to him requiring a debuff applicator to do any of his follow up attacks.
The last method is definitely the best. That’s what I do. My account is primarily built around Nihility and AoE units. I didn’t care about RM but pulled her because I knew she would benefit DoT. Picked Himeko from the standard and she helps fill in holes in my break team. (She’s definitely the most flexible and valuable standard character). Himeko, Herta, and Argenti take care of me in PF. DoT and Acheron take care of me everywhere else, and I’ve been consistently full clearing everything since 1.2 Only place I haven’t invested much is follow-up, but I rarely have problems because I can slot in Ratio/Clara/Himeko as needed
I get too bored with the same character. The whole enjoyment is building a character and then a team. So horizontal for me, but vertical is probably more practical.
I personally think vertical investment is fine for early game/casual players. Back in 1.0, many of these new resources and characters didnt exist anyways. I argue new players have so much more to work with right now that they have more freedom to choose how they want to approach the game. The only time I think horizontal investment feels needed is for more meta/endgame content. In which, you benefit from a variety of playstyles/builds. That being said, HSR is not a hard game by any means. If you invest well, you can complete most content with ease. Getting an Eidolon or LC has almost always been for QoL reasons or because I enjoy the art. However, most people understand that you're potentially paying for that power in some way. Rather it's by skipping multiple banners or bringing out your wallet. E6 Acheron would be a long time investment yes, but I'd get bored only playing the same character over and over again, frankly. So I prefer horizontal teams.
I'm a long time player doing a horizontal investment. I only have E0 5 stars (Jing Liu) although i have IL, Acheron, Jing Yuan, Firefly and Ruan Mei with their signature LC's. But i skipped Robin, Seele, Kafka, Black Swan, Snake Lady, Yunli so i don't have the FUA investment although i do have Ratio and Topaz. I'm aiming for Feixiao after i got Jiaoqui 😅
The issue is that end game modes like as want u to pour the different types of investment like moc favors vertically invest well PF and as want u to expand your roster
Tl;dr the important thing isn't either vertical or horizontal but where to put those investment, building team archtype, reading the meta for pulling plan and farming plan. If you can master those the game would be so ez especially in long term and your char will clear the stages for you in easy full auto.
thanks for the insight, eod! I'm gonna ramble on my experiences. I also wanna say that your videos help me a lot with being smart with my pulls and team building philosophy in star rail so yeah, love your content :) I'm more concerned about vertical investing and meta in hsr than in genshin. in genshin, I survived without kazuha with just venti and sucrose as my anemo crowd controllers and 3 star cleared 99% of the time. I got kazuha way later and turned my already comfortable experience even more comfortable. I've spent a little but I don't intend to spend more. but it's different for star rail, because I'm completely f2p and don't ever intend to spend. but I'm starting to feel the "pinch" because I prioritized 2 teams (dot and qingque mono quantum) for MOC in early game, which meant skipping a lot of meta characters at the time (jingliu, dhil, acheron, premium fua). mostly out of preference, but also because I knew I'd be spreading myself out too thin if I always tried to get the new shiny dps. even with both ruan mei and e2 sparkle, I find myself wanting robin because she works so well with fua. hyv marketing team knows what they're doing... then I switched to vertical investing. I got firefly e2s1 because I love her, but I'm also happy she does well in MOC, DU, AS, and PF to some extent. the weakness implant is just so nice, which is also why I got silver wolf in 1.1. you can argue she's fallen off and I kinda agree, but as an f2p, sometimes I legitimately don't have a good dps to cover an element, so she's a lifesaver. but I fear the day I can no longer brute force content by throwing firefly or qq mono quantum at the enemies. my dot team is already starting to fall behind because I don't want black swan and ruan mei is glued to my firefly team. I pitted my 1.x ass team of sampo, kafka, asta, and huohuo against cocolia in as and it was just a terrible experience. I want one more vertically invested dps but idk who that's gonna be. they HAVE to work with my existing characters, I can't also pull their most meta supports. I'm hoping that e0-e1 s1 sunday will be that character, but if he isn't, well, rip to me I guess. tldr: I did mostly horizontal investment in genshin, but mostly vertical investment in star rail. dps's are temporary, supports are forever
I can’t help but be horizontal, I get so excited for new characters. But getting good artifacts suffers bc all my resources are spent on everyone’s levels and talents and by then another cool new character is about to come out. BUT I don’t care about fully clearing everything, so I’m glad I fit into one of your categories ☺️
Exactly just save or buy whatever character you genuinely like. I mean it’s a 1 player game for gods sake. It’d be bored overpowering every single mode of the game.
Vertical invest in 2 teams. Try to find a team that wants characters that can also be used in other teams at the same time without losing too much value or any value. The best example for this would be Acheron E2S1, Pela, Sparkle and any Sustain. Acheron wants debuffs. Debuffs also exist in DoT teams. So instead of pulling Jiaoqiu to replace Pela, pull Black Swan instead and replace Pela with Black Swan. At the same time you can pull Kafka too. In cases where there is a dot rotation, you can still default to Pela in your Acheron team that should still be able to clear endgame while having a functioning dot team. Same for a possible sustain/abundance character for dot teams. Chances are high they can also be used for an Acheron team. That way you can invest vertically, while still going the route of horizontally.
I'm a "Good Enough" investor. I build whoever I like that helps my account. Do I have the best teams, nope... Can I 36 star MoC, nope. But I can clear story mode and have fun in most of the end game content. Good enough for me. Old saying don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
I started with HSR around patch 1.5. My first team was DoT with Kafka/Black Swan. But my investment was vertical. Everything changed first with Acheron and then with Firefly. For both of them and their teams, I became a dolphin or partly whale with a horizontal investment: E2S1. I have finished the DoT team with Huohuo, but I'm not investing in it anymore, I'm using it for farming. My two teams are currently Acheron E2S1, Sparkle E0S0, Pela E6, Aventurine E2S1. and Firefly E2S1, Harmony MC E6, Ruan Mei E2S1, Gallaghar E6. The next investments will be in 2.4: Jiaoqiu E0S1 for Pela, Sparkle S1. And in 2.5: Lingsha E1S1 for Gallaghar. There will certainly be a better replacement for the Harmony MC in the future. With these three teams I hope to have to spend less money for a longer period of time.
Vertical investment. I just pulled Acheron to E2 because I just liked her then pulled and built my team around her, already had a well built fast pela, pulled for Aventurine, then Robin, now accidentally pulled an E1 JQ (just needed an E0S1 JQ, pulled on the wrong banner. Was supposed to go for sparkle). For 2nd team since I already had RM, had Gallagher E6 from pulling for Acheron and the release of HMC, I was definitely going to pull for FF then got her to E1S1. In short pull the DPS units that can clear all contents and then build everyrhing around them, that will offer more longevity, save more resources, and allows you to focus on a handful of goals.
I started at horizontal investment. Getting the necessary characters that I need is my priority with decent relic sets. Sparkle, Acheron, Aventurine, Fuxuan, Ruan Mei and Firefly. Now I have 12-ish competent characters. 3star clear for MOC, PF, and Apocalyptic Shadow. Also my standard pulls are wonderful; Himeko, Bronya and Clara. After playing for 5months, I'm on transition for vertical investment. The only time that I will pull is for E2 Acheron, E2 Firefly and if Kafka returns. Then, will save until FATE collab next year.
i feel like mostly horizontal with 1-2 important eidelons or lc for either dps or harmony units is the way to go. Like ruan mei e1 for example. imo its more important to choose the eidelons and lc u want to invest vertically in wisely. some eidelons and lc are key upgrades for universal supports or s tier dps units.
the best way to manage your account is by first doing horizontal, then when you get enough characters try to focus on what you have, I'm doing that and the last dps I will get is Feixiao then pull only for eidolons for my characters like acheron, feixiao, firefly, kafka and jingliu, I won't need any new character since my already existing ones has ton of power
I want to play with my fun, and beloved units. Not with the "new" units. I go out of my way to build teams for them that work well, but if it's too much, or I hate the ideal support, I won't bother.
As FTP I focused on progression vs account value. Characters are more important in the beginning, but over time you will need good lightcones to bring the account together. Lots of decision making in general.
I'm a waifu collector so I mainly prefer horizontal investment, however I do sometimes invest a little bit more on my main DPS characters. I usually try to get E1 or S1 on them if I can afford to. I also don't min-max on relics, I usually settle for just "good enough" relics on everyone, with the exception of a few of my main DPSes. I don't like wasting resources for minimal gains. Edit: Thinking about it, I'm quite surprised that I prefer horizontal investment in Star Rail since there are many other games where I prefer to focus on one character or team. I think I just find it easier to farm materials and relics in HSR, plus most content is easy enough where you can get away with mediocre gear on your team. In contrast, games like WuWa and Genshin, I'd much rather focus on 1 or 2 main teams because farming mats and gear is a bit more tedious. I especially hate Genshin's time-gates farming nodes where you can only farm a specific mat on a specific day of the week.
I said I was gonna be done spending after I got 2 full teams built, E2S1 Acheron team, and premium follow-up team. Then they made all the changes to break so I spent for E0S1 Boothill without looking into Firefly's kit which i slightly regret but Boothill gets the job done, then I decided to spend for Ruan Mei, getting her LC but missing her E1 because I ran out of funds. I already had hmc and Gallagher E6 for the team, so it still seemed worth it. I skipped Jade because I never built Himeko and Herta and didn't care about Pure Fiction. Now I'm sitting at full star completion in Pure Fiction, MOC and Apoc Shadow after pulling E2S1 Yunli and E0 Huohuo and I'm planning on pulling Jiaoqui, Feixiao, and Lingsha. I hate FOMO. Like I said, I didn't plan on continuing to spend, but Star Rail dominates all my algorithms from looking up builds and and it's nothing but a hype train for every character. The silver lining is I may skip Kafka on the choice banner who I was initially gonna pull for since I have a copy of Black Swan, but it seems DOT may be a dead archetype before long and not worth the investment. As always, my relics are dog water, but maybe someday I can convince someone to do an account review because I've invested quite a bit and I'm proud of what I have, not to mention I still really enjoy the game, being the only mobile game I still play other than AFK Arena.
I think a lot of people would like to get the chance to try out the different team compositions that are currently available but realistically speaking there isn’t a tenable way to get that unless you spend an insane amount of money. I wanted to try making break/DoT team but grinding for these teams is such a sinkhole that there there will have been a new mode/meta that the composition you built up will underperform
Personally will only vertically invest only if I really love that character AND their Eidolon is either change their gamplays or provide more versatility. Acheron E2 is prime example of this. Team building with her E2 is much more versatile than E0. Firefly E2 is also what makes playing Break much more fun because you are rewarded handsomely well for playing it. Planning ahead when to use her to break/kill enemies to gain extra turn along with Gallagher helps in the right moment really makes me enjoy the game a lot more as it is so rewarding. While I do get it that something like Robin Sparkle RuanMei E1 are strong and can amp up my DPS so hard. It doesn’t provide anything new which is not bad as this game most endgame contents are DPS check but It doesn’t prevent boredom that well either.
The way I've been doing - although it's been frustrating at times, looking back now it's been working - is I horizontally invested until now (with some minor exceptions being SW and FF LCs) and, now that I've been able to 3* all endgame modes, I'll begin pulling only characters I really need (such as Kafka, Black Swan, Topaz and Aventurine - I really tried pulling the IPC members, I really, reaaaally tried, but it looks like they hate me as much as I hate capitalism 😭) or those I really like/think are going to be meta (such as Feixiao and Lingsha - this last one because of a rumored summon meta coming and also cause I love her design), other than that, I'll begin vertical investing on characters that I feel are gonna stay around for a long time (such as Ruan Mei, Robin, Acheron and FF) Needless to say, I'm screwed on the next patch lmao 🤣😭
This game has a lot of character kit design where you eventually find the need to horizontally invest anyway. Even an E6 S5 Kafka will still be reliant on other DoT characters to set up the DoT. And Acheron/Firefly no matter how invested, need their debuffer and break supports respectively. Vertical investment is more like a luxury afforded by bigger budget, i.e. pulling lightcone/eidolon.
I've come to a point where I have a few pretty decent teams, I've got PF covered with Herta/Jade/Clara and MOC & AS covered by FF, Acheron and RRAT. I also have Jingliu and DHIL+Sparkle if the need arises. I'm also at the point where I realized I have the most fun with my RRAT team. Part of the reason is the silly goofy animations and the constant FUAs, another part if that Aven, Ratio & Topaz are probably my top 3 favorite characters. As such I don't really want to get the shiny Ratio replacement coming soon and would rather invest vertically in this specific team to keep it competitive for longer. E1S1 Robin and S1 Ratio are my future plans. I do want E1 Topaz too but I'm afraid I won't have enough to guarantee that. A bummer is also that I want JQ for Acheron but will have to skip him for now and pick him up on a rerun
I’m honestly at the point where I am close to getting all the characters I use to max traces. All with their own max LC, all max level and with full max level relics. This is for a bit over 20 characters. I could farm for better relics, but for most characters I have good enough ones with a couple of characters with great relics. I’m honestly close to running out of things to farm unless I just start farming for completely perfect relics
for me, horizontal for account goodness so my faves can be stronger, but if i like them a lot, horizontal they have to tick all the boxes for me to be motivated to get more than just the character itself - currently planning on e1s1ing robin sparkle and ruan mei when they rerun because i like all of them
Interesting video, the kind that makes your channel stand out ! Also quite timely for me : since i enjoy the game & story i consider to be there for the long term, even though 100% F2P. At the same time, the wait between each story part is 6 weeks long... There is not much else to do besides leveling the roster. To the point where the goal of clearing the end game content becomes achievable and actually tempting. So, there i am at a crossroad : either pull Jiaoqiu with his LC to max out my Acheron team or wait a Kafka or a Robin or (crazy !) both, without their LC but with the idea of strengthening DoT and FuA playstyles 🤔
Well, i made my choice : Pulling Jiaoqiu and his Signature LC ! I consider this a Vertical Investment towards my Acheron team, with the goal to get it complete. I think it is better than trying to chase other units that, for one, rerun too quickly for me to catch up (F2P requires time !) and, for second, would better fit into different playstyles, like DoT and FuA. So, due to the limited resources, i would be left with more good units indeed but only half complete teams... Now, on the contrary, knowing that i have a solid base, i am free form there to focus & properly build a different team for a different playstyle. That would count as Horizontal Investment. Break/SuperBreak might be the most tempting since i already have HamonyMC and Gallagher (E4) and this team has no overlap with Acheron. It could be a target towards the end of the year, if nothing else on the horizon !
As F2P day 1 player, with played Genshin Impact before. I managed to clear floor 10 MoC (old MOC) and all end game content later with 3* I did a mix of investment, I focused in Archetypes and commited to that E2 S1 DHIL, E2 S1 Kafka, while also pulling for their best support E0 RM, E0 Sparkle, when PF was announced I started the FuA investment my Himeko and Herta carries there with DoT Kafka, and no incredible luck in the pulling(E2 Yanqing) or crazy perfect relics. Yes I skipped Acheron and still clear all content in the game Currently investing in my E0S0 FF but in the near future I can see trying for E2 at least. priority of my account get Black Swan and get RM LC. I have a non invested Ratio and Topaz, even though I keep upgrading my DoT team no good FuA relics sadly.
I’m done making two teams (E2 Acheron hyper carry and E1 FF super break) so I’m trying to pull for versatile vertical investments now. For example, I’m pulling JQ E0S1 for Acheron team but JQ can also slot to DoT teams and since I have BS, I only need Kafka for the core DoT. Moze, Aventurine, Ratio, JQ can also form a budget FuA team. I’m pulling Robin on her rerun.
I prefer only vertically investing into characters i like (e2s1 Aventurine, yes I know vertically investing into a sustain is dumb but hey I can use him as my viableDPS so...) then horizontally investing bcs it's just more fun having more characters. I liked DHIL and JL when they were out but good grief was I burned out of seeing them after constantly using them in 1.4-1.5 endgame. Now I just pull for characters that seem interesting to me, especially ones that can boost archetypes I like playing (Break and FuA)
Hi EOD love this content. As a person who has played since 1.0 i have mostly adopted the horizontal play style because i want more team plays for fun and back then i wasn't into meta or like looking good guide and stats. I was more of go with what i like, see how it fits, if it can clear good enough for me. However there were some characters that skipped which i regret now (mostly argenti and robin 😢) but it is what it is i find ways to clear 1st. Fast forward today, i don't have like E6 S5 kind if stuff but i am still able to get 3 stars or 80000 for pure fiction with pure dedication to maximising and tuning individual characters now because of my early game horizontal farming. Moral of the story, play the game for fun and exponentially grow ur teams and playstyle. Trust me it will be frustrating 1st but getting a clear is more important in my book rather than getting all in 1 time for short term ❤❤❤
Vertical investment is what i started my account with in the sense of "oh I really like QQ" so I saved up for sparkle & xuan (both e0) and then yuan's cone since it's also just generically super good. Doing that though kinda left me dry since the game has not been kind to her and building into another archetype is just too expensive now so unless you go vertical for the hyper pushed characters I don't think it's worth it over actually having options for other teams and not locking yourself, maybe a cone or two aswell if they're very good generically.
Really true, go for the generic. But I'm more towards build META unit than teams. That is why I pull Blade. Generic DPS is always the best DPS for long-term full-clear F2P player. Especially as it is clear since Bronya exist, that supports are more valuable than DPS. Then Acheron came. Still fine and coping. Then Galagher came. Absolute goated in the sustain category, that enable cross team-type play for bonkers like Acheron. As a long-time gacha player that only start 1 patch before Ratio, I can see that horizontal or vertical investment only works before Apocalyptic Shadow appear. Now, you need everything to be fully invested (need signature LC on the support or maxed everything with great relic) while having decent team selection (at least 3). That is if you are aiming for full star. Thus obviously need to be a low spender. But for new F2P aiming a few notch below full star (e.g 10 floor on MOC, 9 star on PF), can only survive if they are going vertical. Vertical as in forgoing team comp, but only choose META units like Ruan Mei, Acheron, or Firefly (the mentioned generic outlier characters). As fortunately, all great META unit require low investment, thus suited for vertical build. For new F2P, 1st must have character is Galagher. Then build those 4-star DOT team. Then look for generic DPS or (if lucky starting at a good patch then) META character. TLDR from my perspective: long-term full clear go for vertical, only aim for META unit. Then suffer while waiting with free characters and/or generic DPS.
Best plan is to build horizontally to get a least some teams you enjoy using in every type, so dot fua hypercarry break and so on, then once you have the characters for the teams then to build vertically after, sure you might be tempted to pull on new characters but unless they are an improvement to your built teams or you are lucky or have money to burn then go for characters you want. But as a f2p I have now got a team under every team type and I’m not gonna be pulling on new characters unless an absolutely busted unit drops and instead I’m gonna focus on getting some limited lcs and eidolons on my most used units as long as e1/maybe e2 are worth it. After Male Miko just came out I’m gonna be saving for boothill lc and maybe try to get some harmony eidolons like Mei or Robin.
me on the other game, playing 8 years and have many characters but in the end just use a few of favorites, so in HSR I go with vertical investment on my favorite characters which is Nihility characters (both DoT and non-DoT), other characters at least go E0S1.... in the end play whatever you enjoy the most and be responsible with your own financial....
Team Type building is a pretty interesting way to think about meta. Is there a guide for every specific modifier in the end game modes? Who would be nice for the current pf Shatter ult mechanic?
I buy the monthly and the BP. My 5 star character are all E0 and 3 of them are S1. I am able to finish the endgame content - sometimes i miss the last reward. Spending hundreds or thousends of dollars on a single or few characters is just plain stupid because you do not need it at all. Go for harmony chars and get 1 damage dealer of every element and 2 sustain chars. Done!!!!
Vertical investment is the right approach for me, but, I am also a horizontal investment lovers (i like to try other chars too), so i make an alt where i pull other characters different from my main :v. Or i just borrow friend's account time to time just to know how certain character feels.
I been playing Genshin impact since 2020 and getting into HSR has been pretty difficult to manage both . HSR is just a casual experience for me. I won’t spend money on it but only because I am already heavily invested in Genshin with most my limited 5 stars all c6’ed. I’ll be honest though. It’s been feeling more like a job than a fun game..
I do horizontal until I find the team comp I really enjoy. but I also spend money per banner so I'm allowed to do so. Free 2 play players cannot, and I simply always tell them, find a character you reallllllly really think is badass/cute/awesome, whatever you want and hyper focus on their best team, free 2 play resources are far too little at times. I feel bad when people do horizontal investment only to complain their character is too weak and stuff. I see it far too much.
Ive e6s5d one character (acheron) and I can say that while its awesome to have a character than can dish out millions of dmg and trivialize all content with, it gets boring fast. Ive been using e0s1 yunli cuz I like to actually play around with other characters and maybe have combat last longer than 2 turns. I have a fair a few characters at e2 and I think thats a good stopping point
i stand by doing horizontal investment until a certain time where you feel all your characters are good enough to clear endgame no matter what the circumstances are. At that point vertical is very much better
I pulled e2 acheron and e2 ff. Didnt pull a single limited sustain pulled all harmony at e0 except for robin who I would pull on rerun. I plan to continue this way for the future as well. Vertical investment on fav dps and horizontal for the support and if they released a sustain on par with huo huo in terms of offensive support, Ill pull them as well.
Horizontal investment is better imo because my E0S0 Firefly with RM, HMC, and Gallagher out damages my vertically invested E0S1 Blade, have insane relics, with RM, Bronya and Luocha lmao, and I'm pretty sure HSR devs could make new archetype character whenever they want and call it a new meta, like Superbreak which is really broken and changed the endgame meta.
Get E1 Ruan Mei, E2 Sparkle, E1 Robin, then you can use any favorite character to fill the gap, I found those 3 harmony with their respective early Eidolons give the most gains and versatile in terms of teambuilding.
Horizontal investment since I spend so little money in this game. I'm used to this type of game, so I make sure to roll for characters to make a proper teams. Works well for me, but since this is a gacha game, you''ll be at the whims of fate anyway. In the end, just do whatever you feel like it.
Def Kafka to pair it with my black swann but I hesitate going for BS light cone and E1 aswell or save for trying to reach acheron E2 on rerun. On my other account I'm torn between feixiao + her LC or topaz + LC since i already have aventurine and robin. robin E1 is amazing tho, hard decisions this patch
I'm not pulling every character in this game, A: I don't have that kind of money and B: I don't like every character in this game. I have every team type in this game except DoT since I don't have Kafka, which I'll be pulling on her eventual Rerun. Besides vertical is better for me since it increases the longevity of my teams. I mean E2S1 Yunli with E2S1 Sparkle that Yunli hypercarry team will good for a long time. E2 Kafka with E1 Black Swan and E2 Ruan Mei/E1 Robin is diabolical. I'm actually going to pull some premium cones for my 4 star units to enable them to last longer too. I'll pull Firefly LC on rerun for my Xueyi and likely Lingsha LC for Gallagher if it's good for him. I already did it with Asta by pulling Robin LC. It also helps that I don't have Acheron, Dhil, Jingliu(I built Yanqing because I like him more), Seele, Jade, Argenti, or Firefly and never will. Vertical investment is actually good in this game and I think before 3.0 I'll have finished building all my core teams.
Idk if I’m the only one who gets this feeling. But if what happened in Inazuma in combination makes you feel unwelcome. Natlan’s music and “war” does the opposite and welcomes you with open arms. It wouldn’t be a reach to say Natlan itself is rooting for the player
If a character has a really good signature or e1 that will let them hold up for longer ill consider it. Anything more is just too much invested for me as someone that likes getting new characters.
Horizontal Investment for me, to an extent. At least one type of damage team. So I have a follow up attack team, DOT team, and break team. Each doesn't reuse any characters either.
I dont get how vertical investment and full clear is even possible now that there are 3 endgame modes with multiple gimmicks and elemental weakness. The only way i see it possible is the full Nihility rooster. A E2 Acheron team and a very stron DoT team. With that you can barely bruteforce all content. But even now it's already getting weaker... It's "vertical" in the short term, in a few month you will need to go "vertical" with other team.
If the endgame difficulty of the game is scaling vertically then vertical investment is better, if the game’s difficulty is stagnant horizontal investment is better. Hence why in hsr vertical is better imo because holy sh*t the hp of moc is doubled compared to when floor 12 was first introduced.
Im more horizontal bc here the thing. I really LOVE team building and i enjoy using multiple different characters on different teams so i enjoy getting much characters as ican
For me i am going vertical for 2-3 characters that I really like or are really strong. I got E2 S1 boothill and plan on getting s1 acheron. Then i will keep saving until another busted dps comes out to use as my second half of moc. I am f2p + express pass
I just gamba a lot of the time i rarely save for characters with the only characters i have ever actually saved for were jingliu, Acheron and adventurine, i wasn't able to beat moc for a long time honestly not until i got acheron boothill and firefly cuz i was lacking supports and relics but nowadays i just pull everyone that catches my eye, so far everyone i skipped has been massively meta and i regret skipping them ngl Even tho its just fuxuan topaz and robin
Ehhh, yes. I am on the boat of ,if i feel i need Eidolons I just need better relics. Not because...idk i would like to invest in my favourite character but i am indecisive so at the end i end up not doing it xD. Also i am on the boat of Playing fun teams over just power, and for example Boothill doesnt need any eidolon +his teams needs new characters rather than stronger ones, and the other is acheron, I preffer getting the fox because she gets an upgrade in PF.
Only eidolons i have are e2 dhil, e2 firefly and e1 ruan mei. I have sig lcs for Kafka, Acheron and Firefly. I was considering E1 robin and/or e1 Lingsha
Let's just be honest NO ONE who can afford a Seele e6 r5 would dare to skip even E0 Acheron And building a character does not take you an entire year. So, putting a high invest in a character doesn't mean that will be your only character you will be using for your entire life This Vertical investment problem cn be solved by pulling for the newest supports, thus why seele can still 3 star clera some stages, even at e0
We all know the best is always a well managed diagonal imvestment. Pull the core units of multiple archetipes, and overinvest on the ones that are mid/long term game changers and flexible if possible.
