For those ordering one from auction sites etc, it is important that you have the special control system as shown in this video. Due to the incompatibility with DC and DCC without the controller you might be just buying a shelf ornament. About fifteen years ago I saw some displayed at an exhibition. Due to the high current these draw to boil water, the track was getting very hot to touch. My thought was this may be solved with heavy duty wiring to each track section so the heating current largely flows through bus bar type wiring with low resistive heating. Would also be better with large radius curves to help reduce high speed runaway derailments. A derailment can be very damaging with these as the steam will keep driving the wheels and valve gear when derailed. To combat the heat of the locomotive, it is advisable to handle with the supplied cotton gloves for safety. Issues like this contributed to Hornby ceasing production.
Yes all very good points to note John. I mentioned most of these in my first video which is why I didn't repeat them here. I've found that with most derailments though the loco tips over, so the driving wheels isn't as much of an issue as the loco scorching the scenery is... don't ask me how I know 😂 Thanks for watching 👍
I know! I'm still surprised that this was a commercially viable product that was mass produced, to a certain extent. Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching 😃
A work of art, a real steam loco in OO scale.... really gives another angle to the hobbie... Thanks for sharing... You said you could watch this all-day, I've watched this 3 times already lol😃Cheers Neil
I think they had 7 different locos in the range originally - five A4s and two A3s. That said, I think Hornby could only fit the mechanism into the very largest of locos and even the A3 required a bit of alteration to get it to fit, so that's probably why it never expanded. Thanks for watching 😃
Not gonna lie I saw the title and thought you were doing a live stream!!😂 Thanks so much for such an informative video, I’ve always wanted to know how these locos worked!
Haha, I can see why you'd think that! Funnily enough I actually am doing a Livestream next week - though probably not with this engine! Thanks for watching 😃
hello. thanks for these two videos on your live stem loco. I've been contemplating about getting one for years and having a go at an exhibition the other and now your review gives me hope of finding a Mallard set and giving it a go on my own on. thanks very so much. il be using this to aid in understanding how to set up when I finnaly get one. Will keep you posted. kind regards. and keep up the good work. Matt
Hi Matt, really glad to hear you enjoyed these videos and it's great they've inspired you to have a go at Live Steam yourself. There's certainly a bit of a learning curve at the beginning but it can be very rewarding if you're able to get it all working correctly - I still feel like I'm only scratching the surface! Best of luck with the search and yes, please do keep us posted. Thanks for watching 😃
I can indeed confirm that the Hornby A4's that were tender driven with the old Ringfield motor, introduced in 1979, had the trailing pair of tender wheels articulated. I've got a few of them myself, but the updated version doesn't have them. Lovely to see the fascinating workings inside the live steam version here though, so thanks for making this video, and keep up the good work! :)
Ah, that makes a lot of sense! Hornby must have based this on the older tooling then, either to make it more stable or just to keep costs down. Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for watching 😃
Thanks Matt! They are little marvels aren't they. When the world gets back to normal the 00 Live Steam Club are often at exhibitions with their test track so we'll worth keeping an eye out for them. Thanks for watching 😃
My dad has one of these and they are a lot of fun. When they start rolling you have to back them off quite a bit or they go far to fast. I can see now that is from the slack so will try the long push. Thanks for sharing.
They are great fun! Yes, in my other video where I had this pulling coaches round a circuit, you can see I back it off quite quickly as soon as it starts moving. Certainly keeps you on your toes! Thanks for watching 😃
The engineering is ingenious. Aster has made Gauge I live steam, but the usual gauge for model live steam railways approach a narrow gauge railroad, like 7 inches.
Had one of these (the flying scotsman) since about 2006. Not used it much but you've given me the impetus to get it back out and give her a few laps around the dining room table
They are a fun challenge to get going! I'd recommend running it on the floor initially rather than on a table though. They can be a bit of a handful and derail at speed while you're getting the hang of controlling it, so best not to give it a long drop too! Best of luck and thanks for watching 😃
Thanks so much for you clips on this subject. I bought one and it runs like a dream. If anyone doubts how good the are from the live stream that was clearly a 1 off. These are lovely machines when used correctly.
Glad you're having fun with your own live steam engine Joe! They really are wonderful little machines aren't they - I need to give mine a bit of TLC and get it running even better if I can! Thanks for watching 😃
Hi, just watched your last 009 layout build. You have made me very envious as those little engines look great on your layout. I particularly like the slate fence. The stone effect at the bottom the hill looks great too! You were very right to change the platform material. Thanks Joe
Well done chap,, you have given the OO live steam surface a good scratch,, there is much more to these beasties that many will fail to comprehend,, like the fact that they are real steam locomotives that run on real steam!!! LOL Thanks for the OO live steam club plug as well!! 👍🏻
Thanks Nick, glad you enjoyed the video. I’ve gradually gotten better at controlling it over the years but I wanted to give a shoutout to the OO Live Steam Club in both the videos I’ve done since that’s where I got most of my knowledge. Thanks for watching 😃
Thanks! It's worth mentioning too that on the rolling road it's not really facing any resistance. When it's on the track and having to pull a rake a coaches the slow speed very much improves as the locos generally tend to perform better when they have some weight behind them. Thanks for watching 😃
Incredibly interesting. I thought OO Live Steam would be entirely run on a simple oscillating cylinder, impressed to find out how wrong I was. Including the whistle sound in the reverser is quite clever. Also, amazed that these are superheated. Wow. They aren't cheap though! I imagine the market just wasn't there for these, and most modellers with an interest in Live Steam probably set up O or G scale in the backyard (as I have done).
Yes it's impressive how much effort Hornby put into these tiny little marvels. You're not wrong about the price though!Considering locos hadn't really hit the £100 mark back then it was a lot (and still is) not helped by the fact that they had a reputation for being difficult to control. It was a fantastic range from Hornby but I doubt we'll ever see it again, and if we did I expect it would be even more expensive! Thanks for watching 😃
Stranger things have happened, zero1 was hideously expensive and hardly anyone got stuck into it... fast forward what do you know DCC is everywhere. The real wheel of the tender being articulated is normal for hornby stuff of that era, their A1s/A3s of similar age both have that
Thanks! I deliberately got one that was a bit rusted and worn instead of one that had been freshly repainted. But I was surprised they weren't as expensive as I was expecting them to be. Thanks for watching 😃
Yep, it works just like a real steam engine just with an electric heater instead of a fire. Definitely is as temperamental as real steam engine too! 😂 Thanks for watching 👍
Yes they were quite expensive, especially considering that normal locos were mostly still around the £100 mark back then. But I agree they're absolutely great to watch both with the body on or off! Thanks for watching 😃
It would be interesting to run this on a glycerin/glycol mix to maybe create steam clouds ?? Nice explanation, pretty thorough and informative . Well done
Interesting idea! That said, you're only meant to use distilled water in these to stop everything clogging up, so I don't know how that would affect it over time. I did hear of someone who was planning to try a drop of smoke oil around the exhaust to produce more steam - sadly I never heard what the outcome was though. Thanks for watching 😃
wouldn`t mind a live diesel class 66 !!! jokes aside, I can't say i`ve ever been a lover of the steam engines, but this is quite unique and I would consider a loco if the price came down. Thank you for sharing this video.
I think someone made a similar comment on my other live steam video - I wouldn't mind a Deltic personally! Yeah I think the price put a lot of people off initially and to this day they're still quite high even for used secondhand locos. Thanks for watching 😃
My pleasure, glad I could demystify it. Oh wow, I've seen a couple of those live steam Rockets - they're definitely on a whole other lever! Thanks for watching 😃
Yes!! I’m going to be building another layout when I’ve moved home!! I run DCC, mostly with sound chips. My new layout will be Ongar Station in its current form.
Ah awesome! That sounds like a fantastic layout. I really need to get down to Ongar when things get back to normal, it's been on my list for far too long! Thanks for watching 😃
@@paulhorn2665 It’s one of my many passions, Paul!! I’ve been a volunteer at the Epping Ongar Railway since 2013 and really enjoy every moment I’m there.
Enjoy your visit to Ongar and stepping back in time into a GER station, it has come a long way in a few short years thanks to the volunteers, can't believe it was nearly derelict when I took over!! Simon (Former EOR GM)
Glad you enjoyed it Dave! Yes it's a shame Hornby stopped making them but I can see why. Must be over 10 years now since they discontinued them although you can find them on eBay every so often. Thanks for watching 😃
It is a shame they're no longer produced, but I can see why Hornby stopped. It was always a bit of a gimmick and the internal workings only really fit into the largest steam engines, so there wasn't much scope for expanding the range. Still, I'm glad they had a go at doing something different! Thanks for watching 😃
If the loco is jerky at low speed it's likely the seals in the cylinders have probably hardened with the heat, these are easy to change. I used to repair and service these locos whilst I worked at Hornby in Margate.
Good to know Jeremy! I did suspect that was the case and it's been on the list of jobs to do for a while but good to have it semi-confirmed by someone who knows a lot more about these than me. Thanks for watching 😃
I think the normal A4 locos do also have the rear tender wheels on a separate bogey. I’m not 100% sure though, but I just seem to recollect my mates having it as a kid.
So according to others who have commented, it seems the old Hornby A4's used to have this (as well as a moving cartazzi truck) so that's probably why you remember it from when you were younger. Since then Hornby has updated their A4 and the more modern ones have done away with these pony trucks but it was kept on the Live Steam for some reason - probably to make it less likely to derail. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
Yes I think so. There's a rotary valve at the front which lets steam into the cylinders so I imagine it's part of that - at least that's what I assume. I'm not brave enough to take it apart to find out! 😂 Thanks for watching 👍
I have the Mallard set, and the A3 "Papyrus" ......I'm delighted with them both even after almost 20 years Hornbys excuse for discontinuing this was that it was too expensive. The Mallard set cost me £350 in 2004, and I paid £200 for the A3 {loco only} in 2006. A decent large DCC loco is now £200/£300 ....and quite honestly, there is just no comparrison at all between the two. A ive Steam loco needs driving, with concentration & skill, it's very tempremental and no two are the same .....very much like the real thing.
Back then that was considered very expensive for a loco, given that most models weren’t £100 yet. There was also a global recession at the time too. I think if Hornby were to relaunch the live steam range the locos would easily be in the thousands this time round given that they’d be more expensive to make in the first place. Thanks for watching 😃
Yeah, it's great to see how it all works while in motion. Mine is a 2004 model but the range was first released in 2003 I believe. Thanks for watching 😃
It's great to see inside of it, just a shame Hornby only made LNER locos out of them and not GWR or Southern. How does it work in terms of boiler certificate, maintenance?
The LNER Pacifics were really the only engines big enough to fit all the internals workings into. The cost to have designed a whole new chassis would have made it even more unlikely. You don't need a certificate with these (similar to garden railway live steam locos) and, as long as you use the recommended distilled water, maintenance is minimal with regards to the boiler. Thanks for watching 😃
Haha! 😂 I guess what I meant was, I'm just repeating what I've learnt from others. If you asked me any further questions I'd be stumped! Thanks for watching 👍
Yes that is a bit of a shame. I can see why they made it like that though, otherwise you would have no idea when the direction had been changed. Thanks for watching 😃
I wonder how much Hornby were influenced by the Steamcraft range of OO and HO live steam models developed by David Taylor and sold from 1976 to 1982. Although the models of his that I have seen on RU-vid are all gas fired, I recall Hornby having some arrangement with someone who developed an electric version. Perhaps this was David Taylor also. I used to see small ads in the back pages of the Railway Modeller of the period. Mainly UK models but a few US and German models I recall. Was thinking at the time that they used Wrenn die cast bodies for most to cope with the heat. Eg an A4 was one of the first. Even more expensive than Hornby live steam though.
That's really interesting John, I never knew about the Steamcraft range - a bit before my time to be honest but I'm surprised I've never come across them before now. I'm told the Hornby Live Steam engines were designed/created by Richard Hallam (don't quote me on that!) so it doesn't sound like they had anything to do with each other but I suppose they might have been inspired by the Steamcraft range. Thanks for watching 😃
Very nice ! TRS trains on Facebook do an updated safer version using just bottled water that is alot cleaner to the layout , safer and can be fitted to any loco out of the box usually and even synchronises each chuff wheel movement to the sound decoder fitted on the trains . If you have O gauge trains water vapour stea!m will even eject from the front wheels too !
Thanks Tim! Yes I've seen the TRS smoke generators. They're very impressive but live steam is a different beast entirely. If you just want to see smoke and steam coming from a loco then smoke generators are a great option but the point of live steam is that it's a living, breathing steam engine, so to speak. Thanks for watching 😃
Yep, that's how the engine moves. The steam moves from the super heater to the steam chest at the front of the loco and from there is directed to the cylinders to move the loco. Thanks for watching 😃
No that's actually part of the mechanism that lets steam into the steam chest and onto the cylinders I believe. The wiper board I show in the video is only for controlling the light in the cab but it's a good way to visualise how far open the regulator is. Thanks for watching 😃
i have just seen a video about it but its an old one featuring the commercial i always wanted hornby and right now i want that engine however i live in a poor country and we do not have enough money to buy the tracks details and the live steam engine itself
Ah yeah, I saw that commercial too. If it’s the same one I’m thinking of that was what got me interested in live steam too! Model railways can be an expensive hobby these days but it is possible to do it on a restricted budget if you’re willing to make a few compromises. Check out Budget Model Railways - they have some really good videos filled with plenty of tips and tricks for getting started without much money. Thanks for watching 😊
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy i just had a thought that popped in my mind that you can tear apart hornby live steam locomotives and then slap them inside other trains and modify the shell
Ah fantastic, hope you've have great fun when it arrives! I'd definitely recommend starting out on a rolling road but it's very rewarding when you finally get the hang of controlling them. Thanks for watching 😃
No, there's a safety valve which stops the pressure ever getting too high and if the water gets too low then the power to the heater cuts out automatically. Thanks for watching 😃
It's a great shame that Hornby don't make this system any more - it was really novel and exciting. I'm told they had issues with the engines, the instructions to operate them and the fact they weren't compatible with the power systems for rest of their OO scale electric models. However, I think all that could have been resolved.
It is a shame and it would have been interesting to see how Hornby developed it further. I think the high price didn’t help either considering the world was entering a recession and most model trains were yet to cross the £100 mark at that point. Thanks for watching 😃
Wow i always thought the live steam locos were electric locos that just had some artificial steam coming out of them, seeing an actual minature steam locomotive is amazing
It's an easy mistake to make as there are lots of models just like you describe, with a standard motor and then a smoke generator installed. But yes, the attraction with the Hornby Live Steam was that it was an actual working steam engine. The electricity was only used to heat the boiler and send commands to the regulator. Thanks for watching 😃
Hi Falleen, yes the controller is specific to the live steam locos. Mine came with Mallard as part of the starter set but they're not suitable to use with normal DC or DCC engines because of how differently they work. Thanks for watching 😃
It probably could be improved in those ways. I wonder though if that takes the fun out of driving an actual steam engine - part of the point is that it's not as simple to drive as a typical DC model. Thanks for watching 😃
It would be awesome but we're unlikely to see a live steam version anytime soon given the range has been discontinued for a while now. Perhaps we'll see one of these with their new smoke generator at some point though! Thanks for watching 😃
Have you seen the inner working of a real steam engine... now that is a real Heath Robinson contraption 😅 Like I said in the video, the wiper board is only a visual representation and in reality only controls the status lights. But in some ways having a an electric motor open and close the regulator is an ingenious way to get around the fact that physical cab controls at this scale would just be impractical. Thanks for watching 👍
I''m not sure how helpful this answer will be since I run a production studio but at the moment I'm mostly using a Sony HDV Z5. It's a fairly high end camera but I'm not sure they make it anymore. That said, some of my videos were shot on a 6 year old iPhone so having a big fancy camera is not always the solution to getting better videos. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I mean like what valve does the actual steam use? the linkages on the side look decorative, I don't actually see them moving a valve above the cylinder
I’m working on my Illinois central 4-8-2 mountain type no 2600 ho and n scale hybrid live steam locomotive it runs off alcohol and it runs on smooth nickel silver n scale tracks
That would definitely be interesting to see. The mechanism only just fit into the 00 gauge locos so it might be a struggle in HO, but then a lot of the US locos are bigger than what we have in the UK so that might even it out. Thanks for watching 😃
So neat and intricate but not as intricate as a clock, you have to have a lot of patience to work on any of these small machines. Patients that I really don't have that's, why I stick the lawn mowers and tractors.
Yes definitely not as intricate as a clock, but then clocks don't have to withstand the pressure and movement of a steam loco. To be honest I barely have enough patience to repair my simple electric locos when needed, so it's anyones guess as to how I keep this running 😂 Thanks for watching 👍
Sadly Hornby only made these for a brief period about 10-15 years ago but you can still find them on eBay every so often if you keep an eye out. Thanks for watching 😃
Hey Jasper, yep it's actually a steam powered loco. It does steam some of the time but usually when it's pulling a few coaches - it's hardly having to work here at all. The motor inside is just to open and close the regulator so it's the equivalent of standing in the cab of an actual steam engine and pulling the lever yourself. Thanks for watching 😃
I wouldn't have thought of doing it this way. I would have tried to find a way to make the electric current operate the valve and have full valve gear on a gas fired boiler.
That's more similar to how large scale live steam engines work. They are mostly for garden railways though so you can understand why Hornby might not be keen on having people lighting gas fires near their layout. Thanks for watching 😃
@@michaelbujaki2462 To be fair, neither would I if I was trying to build one of these from scratch. Not sure I'd even be able to build a standard DC loco properly! 😆
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy That depends on your starting point. If I had to make the wire to wind my own motor I wouldn't even try. Give me a box full of parts and assembly instructions and I'll have it together in an hour.
There's no recycling marks on the body, though I've heard someone mention it might be a mix of plastic and ceramic. To be honest I'm not that keen on taking a knife to the body to find out though 😂 Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Your call, thank for the reply! It's not too difficult to scratch a clamshell somewhere on the inside where it won't show, but it is a bit like reading the tea leaves. Big difference between no glass fiber (GF) and some, but no telling whether it's glass balls or GF you're hearing, much less the percentage. Not sure how bakelite might react.
No, not at all. I had the body off for demonstration purposes but usually you just lift the coal load out of the tender to refill. If you're interested, check out the link to my other video on this in the description and you'll see what I mean. Thanks for watching 😃
It may have been designing in the UK but I'm pretty sure all Hornby stuff was being made in China by this point so you don't have to feel too jealous. Thanks for watching 😃
What a magnificent piece of engineering, although its ironic that the motor operating the regulator would be more than capable of driving the loco directly, without any steam equipment, but then it would be nowhere near as interesting.
They are fantastic to watch aren't they! Yes the motor could easily power the engine but as you said, that isn't the point. I suppose the same could easily be said for the larger scale live steam locos with RC controls that are operated via motors too 😆 Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Always wondered what the motor was for ever since first seeing this in the hornby catalogue, was it something to control the steam flow, something to start the loco in motion, or was it powered by the motor with a bit of assistance from steam, a sort of hybrid, well now I know.
Sadly Hornby stopped making these about 10-15 years ago but you can still find them on eBay (many unused) if you keep an eye out. Thanks for watching 😃
Hi Jack, there's lots of RU-vid channels out there dedicated to showing you how to get started with streaming so I'd recommend having a look at those. They'll give you a much better idea of what's possible and will explain it much more thoroughly than I can here. Thanks for watching 😃
Hi there would love to chat to you about your live steam, you have pricked my interest, maybe we could chat privately on this you you don’t mind , best wishes paul at Sandling junction
Hi Paul, sure feel free to send me an email to thatmodelrailwayguy@gmail.com - Though as I said in the video I'm far from an expert on these models so you might be better off taking a look at the OO Live Steam Club instead. Thanks for watching 😃
Indeed the main Hornby a4's use a different tender chassis without the pony truck. I also noticed that the locomotive itself is different (instead of the fixed axle with flangeless wheels there's a pony axle on the Locomotive, something Hornby did do on the older a4 models.) I guess its the old chassis tooling completely, seeing as the Hornby live steam models are pretty old already it seems.
Interesting, I read another comment earlier that said all the A4 tenders had a pony truck but I have to admit I didn't think that was the case. Yes the cartazzi truck is moveable on the live steam engine too. I think the newer A4s were around by the time these were released so I think Hornby just wanted to make it more stable on the track by not having the sliding flangeless wheels. That said I reckon these models are one of the few where the amount of detail isn't the selling point 😂 Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I don't think the A4s trailing wheels we're flangeless, although I believe there is something different about the profile, flat, instead of having a small angle like almost all other railway wheels.
Did they really! I never knew that. Obviously they had the front bogie and the cartazzi truck but I didn't realise the back wheelset on the tender was also a truck. Have to admit though, I've never come across another Hornby A4 model that has this feature though. Thanks for watching 😃
I think the first battle there would be convincing Hornby to start producing N Gauge! I have seen someone successfully run a live steam 009 engine though so it's possible. Thanks for watching 😃
Hi Graeme, in the case of the Hornby Live Steam range the motor is there to act as the driver opening and closing the regulator to control the speed - since we can't fit our fingers inside the cab to use tiny controls 😉 It's fully working steam engine though. Thanks for watching 👍
So there’s two things to note. Here the loco is on the rolling road and isn’t having to pull a load so it’s not working particularly hard - steam engines only puff when they need to after all. But if you just want to see steam then you’d be better off installing a smoke generator in a normal loco. The Live Steam locos are more about driving and maintaining a working steam engine and all the differences that come with that in comparison to a normal model. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Oh I understand that for sure. I have been working on smoke units in some of my engines, I was just imagining live steam would have more steam leaking from the cylinders and such like a full sized steam engine.
Yes, as I mentioned in the video it's on the rolling road so has no real resistance and no load to pull. Check out my other Hornby Live Steam video if you want to see it running round a circuit at a more realistic pace while pulling some carriages. Thanks for watching 😃
Oh it was definitely a gimmick but it was mostly let down by the driving instructions which were awful and led to the range getting a bit of a reputation. They were also quite expensive which didn't help during a worldwide recession either, so I suspect that's partly why Hornby dropped the range. Thanks for watching 😃
