The black and maroon livery was that of the Post Office, not the LMR. It was applied to all horse-drawn mail coaches long before rail carriage started. The 'coachman' is an armed guard, employed by the Post Office rather than the railway, and his sole duty is to protect the mails being carried; he has no responsibility for the train or its contents. However, this is the origin of the 'guard' in the railway sense. The mailbags were stowed in the cupboard-like box -- known as a 'boot' -- underneath the guard's seat. In those days there were only a few bags of mail to be carried in each shipment. I don't know what Hornby have collectively been smoking to produce this mess, but it seems to be pretty heady stuff and I sure would like to try it.
Even though I am Norwegian, I watch your videos with great interest. As a former newspaper editor, I appreciate that you are independent and honest. You say what you think, even if it may not make you popular in all circles.
The passengers in the coach were indeed paying passengers. They paid higher fares to travel in the special RM coach which apparently had four seats not six (as in mere first class). I'm told by more knowledgeable men than I, that it shouldn't be on the same yellow chassis as it was narrower and inside the wheels. Mail was only carried. Personally, I love my red mail coach and have now named the Guard Colin :)
One of the drawings supposedly showing the coaches does, indeed, have a different chassis for the mail coach matching your description though it does have passengers.
I made myself a Manchester and Liverpool railway mail coach more than 20 years ago for my own layout. There is an awful lot of information out there on this model and I had no difficulty finding it, goodness knows where Hornby were looking. for me this is another failure and for the price they're asking for it I would consider something considerably better.
I don't laugh very much, but that thumbnail of Colin sitting on the toilet with a log clearly visible made me laugh harder than I have in a long time, honestly why can professional model makers at Hornby not see this when a complete amateur like me can? Thanks for brightening my morning by reviewing this Sam
Constipated Colin 🤣 OMG Sam this was a hilarious review, it honestly doesnt surprise me Hornby have made this a turd and honestly their product listings never fail to disappoint 😂
Coachman Colin is the most hilarious model train figure ever! Yes please keep him at the back of the layout where he belongs. Just seeing him riding on the coach gives me a pain in my-----
Morning Sam. I watched the video with my early morning coffee and whilst also in a teams meeting, not realising that the mute button was not activated. A few comments about constipated Colin were heard along with me choking on my coffee ( went down the wrong way) unlike C Colin, and me laughing, coughing and spluttering. Needless to say, Constipated Colin is now a thing, along with me doing impressions of Colin becoming un-constipated.
BRILLIANT BRILLIANT BRILLIANT......We were both crying with laughter at the end of this, poor Colin, I hope someone sent him a good laxative in the mail. 11:00 on made us chuckle as in Metaphor for Hornby's products. ..lol...lol On a more serioius note, what the hell is happening at Hornby, ?. At least Simon cannot be blamed for this. Their product descriptions fell off the cliff with HM7000. In my opinion the best video you have ever done. Factual, to the point, and so so so funny. Briliant, thanks for posting.
@@SamsTrainsI think Colin is badly depicting the guard leaning forward so his face is hidden by the brown chest, in real life this would good way to keep smoke ,ash and embers out of your face when the train is traveling
Constipated colin is loose on the back........ Had me in stitches. The coach from what pictures I have in colour, one is the same picture you looked at and another postcard with three closed yellow coaches and four open blue ones, shows the mail coach in the same colour scheme. Only thing is the sub frames on all the yellow stock is a darker colour in the picture. As my Lion Loco and rolling stock are in 'N' gauge.
hahaha! Yeah there's a few different drawings I've seen, none matching this one - is there a picture that shows this exact sceheme? Thanks for watching - Sam :)
As a Canadian, I've gotta say that 'Guard' looks like he's realized his 'Throne' is cold... no, wait! I think he's caught a glimpse of the horse up on the passenger 'walkway'...!
Hi Sam. Yes, mis-describing the model is unforgiveable (if not contravening the trades description of goods act), but the coupling used fits in better with the era and other coaches it goes with.
I love my 1960's Triang R346 Stephenson's Rocket set, still going strong after all these years. I wonder if this Hornby offering will still be around 60 years from now?
I have a Triang Rocket coach on order from eB** - it's a bit of shot in the dark, but I'm hoping it will work OK with my Rapido Lion (which has an NEM coupling)...
Maybe the passengers in the drawing were employees of the Royal Mail service? Perhaps they had some sort of central mail sorting facility, then - at the end of the day - a couple of the employees would load up mail destined for their local post, put it in the box on top, and take a train ride. Then, at the end of the line, they’d get off, take the mail from the box and put it in a large bag, and put it on a horse-drawn wagon to the local post office, and the remainder of the postage would be sorted and ready for delivery the next morning. Then - after delivering the mail - they would all catch a ride back to the central facility on the train going the other way. 😊
“Collin is in for a very long uncomfortable ride in that posture. They should have made him more relaxed but alert. Also improve his mounting system. As far as the coach itself is concerned, I would have a hard time justifying the cost. I don’t know what the msrp was for the other coaches, but the “mail coach” should have been in the same price range. As you stated, Hornby needs to make sure that their advertising is accurate to the product. Thanks for the review their are always enjoyable.
Perhaps Colin is staring at the box in horror, because he's just remembered where he put the Anusol - -----out of reach! BRILLIANT SAM! haven't laughed so much!!!! This surely has to run!
I remember, back in the late 1960's, Mike Sharman had a similar model, converted from an original Triang 'Rocket' coach on his Victorian railway. It looked much like this one, but without the guard's seat at the end. I've also seen a photo, in a book, of a very early TPO coach - again similar to this, but with a collector net at one end - which may actually be preserved in the NRM. I agree, the guard looks most unhappy.......
It's a bit inconsistent having a figure suddenly appear at the end of the train while the locomotive is mysteriously driving itself and the carriages are presumably full of ghosts... Did Lion come with a driver and stoker/fireman? If not, why start including figures now?
Hornby have been advertising on Facebook trying to create a customer base here in the US. Guess I will stick with my Marx and Lionel O gauge. Love your product reviews.
Nem couplings didn't come in until 30 years later. 32 to be precise! Bishop of Wilchester. Seeing we have the TITFIELD THUNDERBOLT at the head of the train. OOPS hornby sadly didn't have a licence so made a Colin instead. Just recovering from the superb results from 2 of RAPEDOS FINEST train packs. Lion & Toby.
I collect transformers and if they advertised an accessory and it was missing from every copy ever printed there would be hell to pay. The fact that an actual toy company puts more effort into their product listing accuracy than a high end model company is insane.
FIY: Round axles in flat sided bearing boxes has low friction with a light lube, even on driver wheels. also: i am watching to see Hornby's response. You Do give them a LOT of honest, public exposure !
As my parents used to ask when I busted in:”Who’s robbing this coach? Me or Ned Kelly?” (NK was an Australian outlaw and police murderer of the 1800s , but popular in folk culture for a while. Ignore the movie of the same name it is worse than Hornby model descriptions 😂😂😂😂)
Hornby has reached a point where many large companies fail. Upper management has now so detached from the day to day operations that they are too busy playing golf and not doing the job they should be. If Hornby does not dramatically change it's corporate culture, you will soon see it's demise. This will at least be a collectors item some day from that company that used to make model trains.
I have no experience in this industry, and I'm convinced I could get a job there as a designer, then get fired for my designs being too accurate and making everyone else feel bad about themselves for not knowing how to do their niche as hell job
it isn't actually new, they have been selling this longer than they have been selling Lion. The coach was included with a rocket train pack, which cost me £189.90. It seemed a lot more reasonable in that pack at that time (September 2022), but now to get just the coaches in that pack would cost £109.97 (this coach, one first class and one third class). So I effectively acquired rocket for £79.93 (which I think we can agree is a great model even if it was as expensive as locomotion No 1 is going to be)! Hornbys prices are just plain wrong now.
By the way, I just remembered. I don't know if you knew this, but here in the US, when steam locomotives were coming out, rather than building coaches, they actually took decommissioned stagecoaches that were modified to run on rails. And there were extra seats added to the back for more passengers
I believe specific mail coaches weren’t invented until after the conveyance of mail act 1938. This act required railways to have available specific coaches for sorting if required by the postmaster, before then it seems to of been provision L&MR provided in agreement with Royal Mail of thier own accord… how Royal Mail ended up with one of the coaches branded I’m not sure
I believe you're thinking of Travelling Post Office vans. Royal Mail carriages were provided by the Post Office from pretty early days, and attached to trains for a fee from the PO. Passengers could travel in these coaches for a surcharge on the regular price, which guaranteed them fast transit.
"Medical" discharge is exiting below coachmans seat ! Right on the track. (Sam called it out at ~9:30.) also, NEM couplings are stated on the spec sheet, but NOT included ... ?
Sam - Your L&MR Mail Carriage is slightly different to mine - 1) On Mine - it is very hard to read the 'Royal Mail' & the 'Liverpool & Manchester' writing printing on my Mail Carriage. 2) The Red Colour on mine seems to be more of a darker brown than your & yes 'Colin' also seems to be doing a 'Pooh' on mine aswell!!! lol 😀🚂🚂🚂
Thanks Sam, probably the best Comedy I have seen in a model video for a long time! Just a shame this is actually a real product problem.... Shame on Hornby! I don't know much about the "Era 1" Era of the Railways, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mail Carriges also Doubled up as Passenger coaches. After all, White Star Lines Olympic Class Ocean Liners Primary purpose were as Mail Carriers which is why, Olympic, Titanic and Brittanic had RMS designation for Royal Mail Ship. Carrying passengers and other stowable freight were secondary side loads as extra revenue.
Not quite correct. RMS vessels received that designation because they got a subsidy from the Post Office in return for a guarantee that they would cover the route in less than a certain maximum time. Other than that they were just regular ocean liners.
Andrew Knights Add a comment... Sam, sorry to say Hornby are NOT a manufacturer, at least not of anything that comes from China. Like many other companies in the model railway world, they are simply another commissioner of models. However whilst this may explain that due to some lack of competence or communication between their manufacturer and themselves they may have little idea of the product they are trying to sell to the public. They should be on top of their supply, as the Chinese companies will supply what you request, for the most part. Thanks for a good revue of a cXXX product, entertaining at least!
Sam's comments about the guy dropping a deuce and then likening that to Hornby's products is the kind of stuff that keeps me watching, even though I'm a Marklin fanboy.
I think the problem with Hornby is that they don’t have the resources to do anything really well. My modelling is armour 1/72, 1/76 and 1/35. Even in their recent new toolings, there are glaring errors. Perhaps they employ people who have no real passion for the subject or the job.
I had issues with Corgi when they decided to issue their late model Tiger tank (steel road wheels, side skirts, and rear stowage bin) as the well-known Tiger 100 that was captured by the Russians and put on display in Moscow. I wrote to them pointing out the obvious errors, but as usual, they couldn’t take constructive criticism and never replied. I did explain that tank enthusiasts would probably be laughing their heads off and that they would lose sales but obviously they didn’t care. Hornby seem to be going down the same route.
Thanks for the comment Sam I have some of your merch and when it had delayed shipping my mum spoke to you online 😅 also in the next live I’d like to see a P2 with 9 pullmans and also the 0-6-0 blue Peckett with some GWR genesis coaches
It's priced like that because demand for Era 1 is going to be low, but also quite insensitive to price. There are a group of people who will want it because there's so little other Era 1 stuff out there and who will be willing to pay. I for one am just glad that Hornby are producing models beyond the grouping era and BR steam.
Hi Sam, you know setting aside the mad price and the descriptive errors I really can't help loving the look of this and the train you ran. With the possibility of Locomotion I'm seriously considering it
Constipated Colin; haven't laughed so much in ages!! I've seen some risque things on layouts over the years, but never a bunged up Victorian gent relieving himself in a 4mm scale field..
An accurate review Sam. You are right to call Hornby out for this sort of exploitation of the modelling base. It is their greatest failure and confirmation that they haven't just taken their eyes off of the ball, they are not even watching the game! I did read somewhere that well-known capitalist Mike Ashley has just purchased a sizable portion of Hornby shares. Make of that what you will but I cannot say that it fills me with hope for a positive future for Hornby.
The idea of the mail coach was that it was meant to be a horse drawn carrage that could be converted to road usage by changing the wheels. This comes from the days that Royal Mail used to provide a taxi service in that paying passengers would ride in the wagon and the mail would be in boxes and bags on top. So the idea is you would stay in the coach and be taken to the final destination by horse and cart from the station. I don't know how partical it was however, but this was essentially the first road railer in existence.
You’ll be pleased to know Hornby have updated their page on this somewhat! Now it correctly states the couplings are not NEM, but chains, and the weight is now “17.59” (with no units however). However, still states the buffers are plastic and has the “seated at the back of your layout” gaffe.
What stood out to me was that the wheelbase was quite different to that shown in the paintings. Whether the paintings are wrong I don't know but I thought it noteworthy. It seems that the examples in museums are replicas so maybe the paintings represent the originals better? Also the body ends of the mail coach in the paintings follow the curved outline rather than being squared off on the passenger coaches. The text "Royal Mail" on the door seems to be in a modern typeface. That said, I wouldn't like to try to make and sell them for £40......
haha yeah - there's something very valuable in there... he's even lost control of his bowel in the name of keeping his eye on it! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
The butt pole sticking out the bottom of the seat is the worst part, it is so amateurish and easily avoided that it makes you question how much thought they actually put into these models.
I paid less than this for 3 accurascale Chaldrons from rails... I know not technically right but they look pretty nifty behind my rapido lion... I was hoping for maybe something decent :/ not something that would have been with hornby first rocket.
Sam; you’ve said the mail coach has the same chassis as the regular passenger coaches and showed a period drawing. The drawing clearly shows a different chassis; it’s four wheel, but it hasn’t got the long buffer shank things running down the solebars, and the axleboxes and W irons are not actually present - which admittedly seem odd on the drawing but nevertheless - for some reason the drawing shows a different chassis. Hornby recycled the same chassis as their coach - seems easier and cheaper for them of course - but it seems a work of fiction.
One problem with early illustrations -- as opposed to the few engineering/technical drawings -- is that the artists didn't really understand what they were looking at. So details we nowadays see clearly were often bodged in, or even omitted entirely. They could do horses and horse-drawn carriages no problem but in the 1830s axleboxes and W-irons were pretty alien technology for most people.
I’ve given a thought about hornby’s listings. I think this might be the case: If it’s advertising a feature not on the model, it’s an oversight. Likely a template they forgot to change. If it’s NOT advertising a feature, I.e, not mentioning the couplings aren’t NEM, it’s deliberate.
Wouldn't it be nice if Hornby saw this as an opportunity to relaunch their Travelling Post Office - Operating Mail Coach sets again? You know, something decent and fun to get entry-level fans into the hobby? That would make good sense though, so it's unlikely they'll do it.
What you have here is a toy made by accountants. Someone at Hornby will have proposed making the mail coach in a meeting; great... but the development and mouldings will cost X. Erm, how about we use the chassis from the Liverpool & Manchester carriage - that'll save X amount? Okay! Then the bloke on the rooftop needs moulding too... If he bends forward a bit he won't foul signals and tunnels... There you have it; a toy made by committee and accountants.
I wonder that too - a lot of their written material has been bizarre lately... but it is Hornby after all, so a lot of what they do is weird! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam, had Hornby fitted the NEM coupling to this piece of plastic, how would you have joined it together? What Hornby should do is release a packet of NEM couplings just for fitting to all of these coaches., Martin. (Thailand)
I wonder if they outsourced their product descriptions to an AI, or just someone very far away with no access to the product and a different understanding of the language... and liability laws.
haha I wonder - but with a team the size of Hornby's, they've no reason to do that... and also no reason to be getting almost everything wrong! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Maybe this is a hot take, but I've never liked model railway figures. They're just gaudy and awkward looking. I understand that, in theory, having actual people on your layout should add to the immersion, but when the people in question are plasticy looking figures permanently frozen in mid motion, it just makes everything appear more toylike. Point is: Poor execution aside, I don't understand why this coach needs a figure at all. Lion doesn't have a crew and it looks fine (I'd argue better) without one. Just let the model speak for itself without gaudy accessories.
Interesting and insightful review. I was thinking of getting Hornby's Era 1 Queen Adelaide Saloon coach whenever it gets released but seeing those couplings, makes me think twice about buying. I am not too impressed with Hornby's quality or models over the last several years, however personally I think their 4/6 wheel coaches and BR Mk1 coaches aren't bad, also the J15 and newly-tooled terrier are good quality. But their wagons I'm afraid don't seem to do it for me anymore, especially since they've paid more attention to under the wagon detailing which I don't see as necessary. Prices are just a joke now and I feel as if Hornby are killing themselves although not softly.
Yeah - the Adelaide coach is listed as having NEMs too, which I believed until I saw this… now I’ve no idea if it’s got them or not. Hornby definitely get a lot of their models right, it’s just they’re extremely inconsistent!
