actually, for some people (including me) who use very close coupling 3-link couplings sprung buffers are necessary, and trying to fit a pair of after market sprung buffers is both expensive, difficult and can look a bit naf. Doesn’t matter for most people, but certainly does for myself. Edit: Also as far as I can tell (which I‘m still not 100% sure) but Rapdio‘s weird rivets are correct! Hornby‘s wooden deck planking is also correct (though Rapido isn’t wrong, as the GWR livery did have the wood painted grey), though I will say the real one is more of an oak sort of colour while hornby seems to have gone for more of a chestnut for some reason.
The price is unforgivable, the odd design choices are probably due to the fact both were designed for a train pack. Looking at how tiny Lion is maybe that's why they wanted a light truck to make it easier to pull. But that would be okay if it wasn't for the astronomical price.
I agree it is! And that could be true yes - maybe the Hornby Loriot wasn't designed for NEMs to begin with? That's really made me think! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I don’t know which I prefer. Hornby’s has a nice wooden texture but the Rapido felt more detailed. Guess it just depends on which you’d use for a Titfield Thunderbolt pack (I hope you review that when it comes out, alongside the E1 and S56).
I guess the high cost is due to design, tooling and setup costs being more difficult to recoup than models that can be sold in multiple liveries but you would have to really want one to pay anywhere over £25
Like the Lions only of real interest for those interested in the Titchfield Thunderbolt. Personally I prefer the Rapido version. It’s easy to add some weight with lead or a load but sorting wheels with bearings is a bit more involved. I like the comparison though. Any chance of a similar group test of the Toads from Oxford, Hornby and Rapido? You can include the Bachmann one to show how things have progressed in thirty years 😁
Yeah exactly - too obscure to be otherwise popular, especially at these prices! Glad you liked the comparison - I think the Rapido one is the best option too! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I pre-ordered the Rapido version from Derail's about 3 months ago and it arrived today. I now wish I'd watched your review first!! 😀 Infact, I'm wondering why I bought it in the first place!!🤣
This was a comparison I really wanted to see (I tend to collect Departmental stock). This was an excellent review, thank you for putting it together. I have to say Rapido had set the bar really high for themselves with the VIX Ferry Van, best rolling stock I have seen in a while.
Re-“inverted rivets” - have you heard of “countersunk screws” Sam? Because it’s perfectly possible to do the same thing with rivets (I.e. mill out a recess in a piece of steel for the rivet to sit into. As to why - as with screws, sometimes it’s beneficial to have the rivets flush with the metal either to avoid creating tripping hazards or simply for aesthetic reasons (I believe a number of locomotive tenders were built this way with filler applied to fill in any gaps making the rivets invisible).
I wonder if the high cost is a reflection of new tooling and assumption by Rapido and Hornby that this being a rather rare wagon it will not sell in large numbers so they have to price each one accordingly.
I've made a plastic kit of a Lowmac. The slightest bit of warp in the chassis and the model will derail on the first bend. On such a thin chassis, there is no room for error and a plastic one is more likely to warp over time. Therefore, only the Hornby one is viable IMO for all its other faults !
There’s an even better option for those looking for a Loriot.. the Cambrian kit! It’s all plastic and you’ll have to put it together, weight it and paint it, but it’ll only cost you about £15. 👍
This lowmac embodies everything wrong with Hornby; badly executed marketing choices, bad design, bad production and overpriced. Its not going well for Hornby.
Rapido really does a lot of work on the underside detail. Ive heard this saying that Rapido models work the best when theyre derailed and turned over--because they have insane underside detail!
Comment will probably get lost in the sauce. But there was a discussion about this from Jason Schron at Rapido CA about a similar Canadian Flatcar that was not reaching sales targets presumably over it being %20 more expensive than similar freight cars. Due to the nature of Diecast molds and material being a lot more expensive, flatcars often end up more expensive to make than similar Boxcars/ Freight Vans, Tanks, Hoppers, etc since you can't just hide a generic hunk of Zinc/Aluminum under the floor.
If I would have to choose one it's gonna be Rapido because of the better detail, especially the brake rigging, lower price and it actually has working couplings. So yeah, really disappointed in Hornby's because originally I wanted the metal construction but the couplings are so horrendous it's a big no especially for the higher asking price. However, on the grand scheme of things I think I'll stick with my old Airfix lowmac because for the price you can get better Dapol and Oxford rail models. I recently bought my first Oxford open wagon and I'm blown away by the value.
I’d prefer Rapido’s detail, it simply blows Hornby’s out the water. As long as it doesnt stringline in a long train, I’d be quite content. Worse case, just add a load!
If you follow the rules the GWR set out for these wagons, they were supposed to be marshalled at the rear of the train only. Thats what the printing on the inside of the wells says on the models too. Obey the rules and there is no risk of stringlining unless you buy that Hornby tank and its weight and stiff running pulls the head of the train off! 😉
Regarding the end platforms, I've had opportunity to climb over the one at the SVR in the past and I don't remember it having obvious rivets, it is instead a rather flush piece of thin sheet metal. The longitudinal chassis rails are also prominent in the well, Hornby have completely missed this out by planking the whole thing. In that regard, Hornbys is a work of fiction with its pronounced rivets, silly solution to a problem that doesn't exist and lack of well detail. To fix those rivets would be a nightmare file job AND you'd have to fill the mounting holes too. Rapidos sunken rivets aren't much better, but I'd take that over raised rivets as its much easier to fill and repaint/weather in. That and the decent representation of the exposed chassis rails in the well push their wagon leagues ahead of Hornbys 'effort'. In regards the weight, you could always 3D print a load to bump it up somewhat. A sheeted lathe would look great on it, especially tied down to those functional tying down rings.
Yeah I agree - I’ve looked at some detailed photos myself and there are definitely no visible rivets.. I assume the original design/build must have been different in this regard, but maybe not? Thanks for sharing re the planking too - that is very odd then! Cheers, Sam :)
Re weight - given the cars are used to carry a load, a lighter car might be an advantage in that the load will compensate for the lightness of the wagon without creating excessive drag.
For me it would be the Rapido purely for the axel bearings and the sprung couplings, you can always fix a load on it to bring the weight up. A great video Sam and thank you for your trouble. Regards from Ron.
I noticed in a couple of your close ups sam, Hornby’s die cast body had a few paint chips in it too. When Hornby’s version also turned up at the local model shop, a couple of them had missing buffers at one end!
Curious to see how much weight the "Dan's House" ex-grounded coach with interior details will add to the Rapido Loriot. Great review, as always. I for one pity any company trying to keep up with the runaway increases in Chinese wages, factory costs, and shipping.
The high prices are to recover the die,and machine costs! If they were able to sell the unit,as a package,the costs would have been amortized over the run! Production decisions,most people never see! One offs,are also harder to sell,as Sam had noted,given their obscurity! Thank you,for an interesting video,and a GWR gem! Thank you 😇!
I would choose the Hornby one , I like the wood texture and that it's all metal. I prefer metal models because they are supposedly less fragile and less prone to derailments. Obviously I wouldn't buy it for the price. I don't necessarily mind about details that you can't see anyway when the wagon it's on the rails , so I don't mind that you can't see the planking from underneath or the brakes. But I'm surprised that the metal wagon didn't roll on the hill , I would say even it has no bearings , considering that it's more than double the weight of the plastic wagon that it should've rolled more. Also , in most cases I prefer free pivoting couplings , because in my opinion for light rolling stock and bad layed tracks , curves , points etc sprung couplings can cause unwanted derailments ; for me it matters more how a model it's behaving on the layout than how easy it's to couple it when it's standing.
That's fair enough - the all metal construction is very tempting, and it should make the wagon run more stable. If it ran properly, that would be the choice for me! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
As soon as I saw Rapido, I knew the price would be high, but I really didn't expect Hornby to be quite so ridiculous in pricing. These two are close though. Each has it's pros and cons, but given the prototype it was based on and the fact there was only ever two of them, I would probably go Rapido and save the money. The detail looks good on Rapido and although Hornby do have a couple of pro's, the price is what ultimately got me. Ultimately though, I won't be getting either myself as they don't fit my railway layout. I just thought I'd give my opinion :)
Looks to me like the Dean churchward brakes are applied on the hornby model, might be best to have the rapid model and have a dicast load for weight. Think these Y's were absorbed hence only two
Did you know with the rapido GWR Loriot Y wagon is number 41990 and the real 41990 Wagon is preserved at the Severn Valley Railway also remember that SECR 5 Wagon you reviewed, it’s number is 12522 and the Real 12522 wagon is also preserved at the Severn Valley Railway
I'm with you Sam very pricey for what you get for either model. Essentially it would be down to reliability so the inclination would be the Rapido version personally, although if I were to spend that sort of money on a wagon I'd like it to be absolutely perfect in every way.
Thanks Sam, you have saved me a few bob. I don't think I want either! I love my Rapido rake which is now up to three - a Mink, an open and the excellent Toad which has just arrived. Given the detail on the Toad I can't see how the price works? Think I'll treat myself to another Rapido open or Mink or maybe a Bachmann Macaw and be happy I've saved those few quid. Cheers.
Well you can just add weight to it by adding a slab of flexible sheet lead, or something similar. Weight problem solved. Always follow recommendations for proper weight per length of your car. I prefer metal wheelsets myself. But the tie down rings is a bit of a problem. I really like obscure railroad wagons (in your lingo, rolling stock or car from my neck of the woods) Which one? Not sure. But I think I would go for detail. Plus I think that it would be able to add details earlier.
Not sure if its to do with how it comes across on camera, but the Hornby planking effect looks great to me! I think the couplings would put me off though.
Interesting how the rings are located differently on each model. Although it is possible that BR moved them (you'd need to compare them like for like for that). I've had issues with the ex-airfix Lowmacs derailing, even with extra weight, so I'd be concerned by the low weight of the Rapido one. The decks would most likely be a lighter colour wood, especially after they had spent some time in the sun, so why the Hornby one ended up being more mahogany coloured, I dunno. It is possible GWR painted the decks though. Also interesting how the Rapido one represents the frames as part of the deck, whereas the Hornby one has the deck simply planked.
Decent review here Sam, to be honest both look quite good from the looks of them both, if I was to get one I’m not really sure which I would go for, funny how we mention rakes because today I just received a 15 old hornby HAA hopper wagons which are going to go with my other 10 so I actually have a rake of 25 of those now.
Buffer to buffer competition, like that, glad they each focused in different areas as it will give customers more options, sad that there are slacks on both ESPECIALLY given their price but i guess thats how the fracki- i mean ahrem retail now works.
I think theres a lot to love on your rating scale, but I think quite a lot of things end up being E grade, I think it may need rebalancing or more grades in the lower tier?
Very useful comparison, Sam; more like this please! Looks like the Hornby version keeps jumping on the rear axle. You’ll notice it especially during the sequences after the scores. Is there a problem with the back to backs?
I mean they took the points well, so at least they beat literally everything Dapol for running. And the couplers are the right height so they beat dapol there too! Id get the rapido one personally, put a weighted load on it and that really fixes my only gripe.
11:18 one of the manufacturers has clearly got this wrong.. they are of the same prototype as evidenced by the serial number.. yet the tie down hooks are in a different place on both models.. and surely, if they are the same prototype they would both be the same colour? Unless one is preservation and the other is pre-preservation ?
They are, but one is GWR and the other is BR, so they're separated by a number of years... it could be that they were modified during their lifetimes Thanks for watching, Sam :)
An interesting review comparing the 2 products. The Rapido version looks slightly better IMHO (although I haven’t seen either of these in the flesh). The lack of weight doesn’t appear to be an issue on the Rapido wagon either & once a die cast load (of a Catapillar or JCB) has been added I would imagine this would improve the performance too.
Hope you are feeling better. Thankfully I don't need to purchase a Loriot Y for my railways as I wouldn't be spending my own money on one after watching that. I have my own Triang based Dan's house/coach wagon anyways so don't even need one for that purpose. Funny you should say that about rush jobs, I'm still waiting on the 88DS!!
The wood decking on both models would be incorrect after they had transported there first load. To secure loads wedges and blocks would have been nailed or screwed to the timbers, loading marks where point loads would split the surface, over time rotten or badly damaged timbers would be replaced.
Given the results of the rolling and coupling tests, if I was looking at buying one, I would go for the Rapido wagon, regardless of the weight difference between the two.
Interesting review; thanks. You could increase the weight of the Rapido wagon by adding a load, and if you wanted better value, there’s the Cambrian kit. OK, it’s more work and it’s a Loriot W, but it’s also £14.70!
In the 1950s,I am sure I had one of those in a Hornby Dublo(three rail) set,I stood on it,but managed to to straighten it and show no ill effects ,I wonder what price it would fetch now...
great review im sure but i stopped the video at 2:56 after you said the price as i know ill never buy either at what in my opinion is a 20 quid top wagon, all the best Sam'sTrains👍
Bought two of the Rapido versions, detail good, but I found mine derailing in several places on my track, there is no "play" in the wheel axles and as a result the flanges start to grind and lift even on radius 3 not helped because its such a light wagon. I will have to reduce the back to backs to stand any chance of running the wagon. Does not bode well for the lowmac wagon just announced 🤔
I HAVE to assume they're so expensive as most people wouldn't buy more than two, so they bump up the price. That's just my theory though, and it's still utterly bizzare that they're so expensive 😵 I also have to know--what's going on with those wagons at the right in the rankings?? is that box van powered? It doesn't have a locomotive pulling it Cool video!! :3
Re the Hornby model, not sure about the coupling issue! (I would just deal with it) but the free (or lack of) rolling is something that all wagons/coaches should be able to do. Not sure that I like the woodgrain effect on the Hornby model. In real life this would have become dirty very quickly, covered in oil etc depending on the load!
Hornby would never normally have gone for such an obscure type. The Loriot Y in Hornbys case was a rather cynical landgrab of movie rights without permission. Perhaps thats why the price is so high, nobody outside of certain legal circles knows what Hornby had to pay Studiocanal for their blatant copyright theft.
As a truck driver, the trailer version of this wagons are called "low boys" and they're extremely susceptible to getting stuck on railroad crossings. There's some pretty crazy footage of a train striking a stuck trailer sitting on the tracks. I don't think anybody was injured thankfully, but still, what a mess.
My late uncle's house had it's driveway right next to a railroad crossing. A lowboy trailer load of steel matt (used to place drilling rigs on it) high centered on the crossing; when the train struck it, it created quite a mess, scattering steel matts all over his yard.
Oddly in Australia the Hornby Version is cheaper than Rapido. ATM. But at $79. Aud for Hornby & $85 for Rapido. ( 2024) 🤔🙄 Obviously, Hornby prob'ly have a Larger BRAND name aka. Clout..! And Maybe, Distribution..!? But think I will buy a Wellwagon from another supplier, if I am in that much Need..! Or just Buy a Bottle of Booze, Something Nice and Toast both 'Hornby & Rapido' for their Stupidity and or Greed.🎉😂🥳 And then just Not Buy Either..! 🤔 So much to Choose from so little Money 'Hic..!' Pour me Another..! Great Review Sam as Always..! Cheers All..! 😎
I assume they've both put the price point very high because they think no one would buy them anyway. And no one will buy them anyway because of the very high price point. This is kinda of a logic in the end, but... ^^'
Great video as usual! The prices in this hobby have gotten absolutely ridiculous, to the point where I mainly just buy pre-owned models or budget models. These models are not worth between €30-€50, and honestly those prices are just insulates toward the customer. Both are flawed, which would be fine if say these models were say between €17-€22, but at these prices the issues are unforgivable. If I was to pick which model I prefer, I would go with Rapido just because the damn thing works properly, and on top of that it is cheaper, but really, I’m not going to buy ether of these. I’m not disappointed in Hornby, as I have been for ages, but I am disappointed in Rapido, as they generally are much better than this.
Fair comparison Sam. A tad too much over-repeating whining about price we thought tbh. This hobby with detailed models has always been expensive, and these trucks seem to be a rarity; aimed at avid proficient modellers. That said, H have gone on a path of imitating Märklin in too many ways but their quality isn't even half of it and with so many defects and errors by design and in manufacturing all the time. Well, it explains them being back in deep troubles of course. On this one, they've just ruined a (potential quality) model by skimping on non-sprung couplings... How silly... Rapido really can't convince us either with detailed but rather cheapo constructions and fairly high error rates usually as well. Interesting comparison though. Both have clearly taken different routes as for this model. Metal would certainly always be our preference and the price would be fine for us, but then that most silly coupling construction 🙄 Cheerio.
haha thank you! I always say that expensive models are fine if they're worth the money - but these weren't, and their inadequacy for the money was multi-layered, so a degree of repetition was necessary... but I agree, I probably do overemphasise issues of cost, but mainly because I feel very strongly about it. Yes, with models like this, it makes sense that Hornby are in deep troubles... they're not contributing much to the hobby/industry with models like this, Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hello Sam. Once again I have watched your video with its great informative review and I feel as you do, they're each good in their own ways but, I find it still difficult to choose a winner? I'm now eagerly awaiting the next video.
Both models are too expensive for me. I prefer the Hornby on weight and 'looks', but still not enough to 'shell out' for either. What trucks were used in ww 1 and ww2 for tank transport?
Are Rapido's gravity defying tie-down points designed to be accurate with a load on the wagon and chains/ropes to secure it whilst Hornby's is modelled empty?
Having a wagon made of plastic like Dapol's is pretty standard. For the price you'd expect not, but still, it doesn't seem to affect the performance and they got more detail into it. Normally die-cast is a feature I'd go for but considering the ugly peg-rivets and the horrible couplings I'd say Dapol's is best. Even disregarding that, I would have still got Dapol's anyway just because I don't want to support Hornby's conniving business model. I wasn't going to pick one up until I watched this review. But it suddenly dawned on me that I bought a couple of traction engines that would look really good on one. However I'll wait and see if they go on sale since even 33 pounds at Hattons is too much. You can get an Oxford Warwell for that.
Yeah I'd definitely expect that - though the weight doesn't spoil the performance, it's more the cheap-feeling nature of the plastic construction that was so offputting! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Remember what was designed to pull it a small Lion locomotive. Hornby were freed from this constraint when they messed up. So rapido designed theirs for the titfield set Sometimes the reasons are not immidiately obvious
Nah - Rapido's Lion is going to be more powerful than Hornby's (so they say), and with bearings even a 50g wagon would be incredibly easy to Haul... Lion only has to haul one of these and a few other bits... it wouldn't have struggled! Even Hornby's Lion could easily haul 3+ of these Hornby Loriots! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This is nice, I like the trucks but they're not my style. I loved my birthday video a lot more. When you told me you were ill, I was worried about you. By the way, what was with your crazy dancing at the end of my birthday video? You had me in stitches of silent laughter.
There is a great western locomotive model in HO that I really think you should at least try. The great western cathedral 8098,think of it as a sort of copy of the lms famous 4-6-2s with only a few minor changes
Great review but the trend today seems to be ever increasing prices. Prices have gone up 30 to 40% for basically the same models. These increasing prices are slowly pushing people out of the hobby.
Personally, I typically value die cast construction fairly highly, but those couplings are simply unforgivable! I wonder if it would be possible to get the Hornby wagon, but then order all the separately fitted parts from the Rapido wagon as spares, and rebuild the Hornby wagon into something worth owning.
Hornby - is metal - doesn't defy gravity - worse in all other aspects Rapido - is plastic - defies gravity - better in all other aspects Well, the good news is, the maximum you're gonna buy is 2 wagons, and you own the entire fleet