Horrible Mistakes Writers Make With Plot Twists - Andrew Warren

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Andrew Warren is the international best-selling author of the Thomas Caine thriller series. Andrew also writes the space fantasy series Tales of Talon under the pen name of A.A. Warren. Andrew was born in New Jersey, and studied film and English at the University of Miami. He has over a decade of experience in the television and motion picture industry, where he has worked as a post production supervisor, story producer, and writer. He currently lives in Southern California.
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8 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 45

@BenjaminWhitley Год назад

From his comments on how not to do a plot twist, we can reverse-engineer how to manufacture good plot twists: 1. Take your story or outline and focus on the 4 scenes where good plot twists tend to reside: End of act 1, midpoint, end of act 2, and anywhere in Act 3. 2. Brainstorm what shouldn't happen, what you don't want to happen, and the last thing you would ever want to happen. Power through all the bad ideas. 3. You will inevitably find ideas better than what you originally had. Follow them to their logical conclusion, no matter how much it might de-rail your story, before deciding whether to reject or accept them.. 4. Embrace the ideas that excite you and serve your story. Reject the ideas that - although fresh and original - don't serve your story or de-rail what you're trying to achieve. 5. Rewrite. M. Night Shyamalan said he didn't think of the twist for The Sixth Sense until the 5th draft, and then he completely rewrote it around that central twist.

@mageprometheus Год назад

I like it when the twist causes the goal to look like it's about to fail, but something from the original plan re-twists and there is success after all.

@johnnydavidauthor Год назад

Fantastic insights, as ever, brilliant channel 😃

@benparrish672 Год назад

Don't twist just to twist If it doesn't make sense (GoT) then it won't fit

@Lilliathi Год назад

You just called out one of the most popular works of twisty fiction.. clearly it did fit in the eyes of most people.

@Eidolon1andOnly Год назад

@@Lilliathi Not exactly since the last season of the TV series polarized the audience something fierce. So not "in the eyes of most people" but closer to "in the eyes of about half the audience" which definitely isn't a good thing. Not entirely bad either, but still not good.

@Lilliathi Год назад

@@Eidolon1andOnly That part is essentially fan fiction, I don't regard it as canon.

@mel3687 Год назад

@@Eidolon1andOnly Actually it wasn't the plot twists that angered fans so much as it was the poor execution. People would have accepted Dany's madness had it been properly foreshadowed and developed. Even Bran's usurpation would have been less difficult to swallow if it was earned and appropriately explained. Instead, they diverted from (or completely dropped) established character arcs, sacrificed narrative pacing, structure and atmosphere just to slap an ending on it.

@risanf7999 Год назад

There's a lot of talk about "subverting expectations" in the creative world, but I think it's only a good idea if the plot twist is BETTER than the story trope you're subverting. For instance, I have one story where I make the protagonist lose to his rival, but I chose that path because it allows the protagonist to dust himself off and try again later, and it also powers-up the rival character as a formidable threat. However, cheap subversion of tropes has gotten so common in recent movies and TV shows, that it has the opposite effect, and in fact highlights why the original tropes were so resonant to begin with. It speaks to the state of current movies that simple, crowd-pleasing stuff actually stands out more these days, like Maverick jumping into a fighter plane and saving the day, or Luke mowing down a bunch of robots with his lightsaber.

@andrewwarren3849 Год назад

Well said! That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Thank you.

@risanf7999 Год назад

@@andrewwarren3849 You're welcome! And thanks for your comments on "foreshadowing after the fact." The newest draft of a story I'm writing has a pivotal scene where the protagonist discards a jacket as a metaphor for discarding his insecurities. What you said made me realize it's a good idea to go ahead reference that jacket in previous scenes to make it a proper Chekhov Gun.

@DovieRuthAuthor Год назад

I’m not sure where the negativity is coming from in some of the comments. The hallmark of most genres of literature and movies is a plot twist written so skillfully that the audience doesn’t see it coming. There is also much discussion nowadays about the plot summary. How much do you tell a potential reader/viewer without giving the plot away? I believe less is more. I won’t read a story if I know what’s going to happen. There are many authors who swear by a long description. Perhaps this could be a future topic on Film Courage.

@Lilliathi Год назад

There's a balance to be made between enticing the reader to start reading and not revealing the story beforehand. There's a lot of books out there, people are not going to pick yours unless it sounds special.

@mel3687 Год назад

You won't read a story if you already know what will happen? That isn't true at all. You specifically pick up genre fiction, don't you, before reading the blurb on the back of the book? If so, then you already have an idea of what the story's premise will be. The entire marketing concept of "genre" itself centers around plot profiling that promises very specific tropes, themes and narrative structures. You would feel cheated if you thought you were purchasing a romance novel à la Nicholas Sparks, for instance, only to discover that the story was a revenge thriller. So you read the book summary to confirm that this book does, indeed, meet pre-conceived expectations. Take the movie _The Village_ for example. The trailer sells the movie as a Lovecraftian supernatural horror period film, but when the twist reveals that the movie is actually just a modern day psychological thriller, viewers were angry because the movie trailer (or plot summary) was misleading and they did not get the genre (tropes, story narrative, themes) that they hoped for.

@BionicDance Год назад

Honestly, plot twists are so often predictable or hokey...assuming we're talking about taking the audience by surprise and not just circumstances throwing the character for a loop. I prefer breaking common tropes, especially the ones that you see coming a mile away because you've seen it a thousand times before: - "Hey, Captain! You should come look at this!" is to be met with, "Tell me what it is, first." For once. - Blaming yourself for someone else's death (that was _toooootally_ not your fault): "Oh, _stop that._ That death had _nothing_ to do with you. Don't be a schmuck." _For once._ Instead of the heartful-but-whiny "Believe in yourself!" speech. **rolls eyes** - Do I even need to mention the Prometheus School of Running Away From Things? - Along similar lines, more people need to tackle someone out of the way instead of _bumping_ them out of the way and getting hit by the car themselves. ...that kind of thing. The sci-fi thingy I made--very retro-Star Wars in flavor--takes place solely in the Sol system, rather than being intergalactic. That kinda thing.

@gnarthdarkanen7464 Год назад

Maybe I'd like to see someone... JUST ONCE... de-rail the "blaming yourself for someone's death" bit with something like, "Oh for Christ's own sake, he was such an asshole! He knew everything already, which is why you couldn't teach the dumb-ass NOTHING! We all know he got himself killed by being an idiot! What are you even crying about???" ;o)

@BionicDance Год назад

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 I'd watch that. Sounds like something out of a "Kick Ass" sequel.

@gnarthdarkanen7464 Год назад

@@BionicDance You might find at least some of "Supernatural" worth watching then... Keep an eye to Bobby Singer (though I may be "preaching to the choir")... He was my favorite attitude on the show. From him and the boys blasting their way through ghosts trying to taunt them into self-loathing with, "If you're gonna shoot, SHOOT. Don't talk." To the berating he gave Dean over a self doubt and whiny episode about Sam "going off the rails"... "What, you think family's supposed to be there to give you warm fuzzy feelings? Well, boo-hoo, Princess. They hurt you worse than anybody BECAUSE their family. That's what families DO!!" Gotta love Bobby. He was rougher than a corn-cob up a garter snake, but he always said it like he meant it... and 90% of the time, he was dead-on point! ;o)

@Lilliathi Год назад

Your individual points are good, but originality isn't everything. An old story told well has plenty of value and not everyone is a jaded mass-consumer/analyser of stories like we are.

@ptolemyhenson6838 Год назад

The "take a look at this" thing is something that I actually experience IRL, albeit in situations with very low stakes. Certain people I know will absolutely refuse to even start describing what they want to show me until they find it on RU-vid again or they lead me to the next room, then it will end up being something that's incredibly basic to describe.

@filmcourage Год назад

Does a bad plot twist ruin a movie or tv show for you?

@wexwuthor1776 Год назад

Depends on how bad

@phildiamond8549 Год назад

Not exactly a plot twist, perhaps - but Brad Pitt finding his wife's head near the end of Se7en is a good example of how NOT to end a story line - and a good way to deter the audience from ever watching again, in my humble opinion.

@familycorvette Год назад

For my money, the worst plot twist in the history of movies was when the Viggo Mortensen character in Eastern Promises turned out to be an FSB agent. It completely pulls the rug out from under the character. The camera has lingered over his tattoos in the steam bath and the viewer has speculated on the life of crime represented by those tattoos. We think we are seeing a character arc where a bad guy who has done some very bad things feels a pang of compassion for the trafficked women and turns on his former life. Instead, we get a story about a cop just doing his job.

@Yatukih_001 Год назад

Not at all. As you can see judging by my 20 questions on how to introduce an interesting plot twist, plot twists make movies more entertaining and interesting, especially bad movies. Now imagine what would have happened if Winston manages to escape in 1984? How would readers have reacted to Orwell´s classic?

@imadivergentandantinormiep7877 Год назад

The problem with the writers who are invited to this channel, is that they "write to the readers", so their main goals is to please the readers and it's exactly in that point when mediocrity and lack of authenticity begins. Can you imagine if Dostoevsky, Hemingway, Raymond Carver, Lars Von Trier (director, screenwriter) would have thought about what the readers like, they wouldn't have made the masterpieces they gave us

@Yatukih_001 Год назад

When I write, the main goal is to introduce something as new as possible to the reader. The more new it is, the better. It would have to be a novel idea. Writing to the readers is hugely important, but the problem starts when you exclude yourself from the equation. Because you are your first reader.

@BenjaminWhitley Год назад

Exactly! All the great writers write for themselves. Write what excites you. Don't pander to an imaginary audience. You need to ignore all critics when it's something you really love.

@jpch8814 Год назад

I have to disagree with this one. Some of the best plot twists are in Thrillers and Mysteries. When Gone Girl emerged, it defied the standard "twist" and redefined it for writers and readers. I could say the same for Dennis Lehane's Shutter Island and Mystic River. If you read them now, you'd think they are "basic" and "common". However, back in the day, they were trendsetters and innovative, and that's why they had such success. Formulaic writers are just that, formulaic, basic, and meh.

@user-cg1rm7hf4r Год назад

Maybe not a plot twist but in Thor: Love and Thunder, I was waiting for someone to figure out that the hammer was blocking the chemo treatment. So for me, it was a plot twist that she died. When movies like Sneakers seem to have no plot twists while being in the genre for plot twists; which is why maybe the movie is good, but so, so, so, so slow.

@BenjaminWhitley Год назад

Sneakers has tons of plot twists, what are you talking about?

@user-cg1rm7hf4r Год назад

@@BenjaminWhitley like?

@BenjaminWhitley Год назад

@@user-cg1rm7hf4r There are at least a dozen, but the biggest plot twist is when the NSA guys turn out to not be NSA guys.

@user-cg1rm7hf4r Год назад

@@BenjaminWhitley not a plot twist, then everything someday they're fbi but they're not you would have plot twist,

@Yatukih_001 Год назад

Here are 20 fun plot twists. 1. What would the world be like if Tank Man was actually killed by a tank and everyone saw it on TV? 2. What if the Warrens never investigated the paranormal? 3. What if Nintendo was a different company? 4. What if somebody invented an O.S. decades earlier than Microsoft? 5. What if the Tau give up and the Tyranids abandon their hive mind? 6. What if Thailand occupied Iceland instead of the Vikings? 7. What if Socrates loved democracy? 8. What if Germany decided to be neutral during WWII? 9. What if people ate dragons in Dungeons and Dragons? 10. What if Dracula turned Winnie the Pooh into a vampire? 11. What if Robin Hood decides to keep all the stuff he stole to himself? 12. What if Beethoven never wrote the 9th symphony? 13. What if JFK was ACTUALLY Jimmy Carter playing us fools all along? 14. What if somebody opened the Torch on The Statue of Liberty to the public? 15. What if there were three theories of general relativity all developed by Albert Einstein? 16. What would happen if Gandhi joined the Nazis? 17. What would happen if an Icelander finds out he´s actually a Neanderthal? 18. What if somebody finds a computer under Vermeer´s home? 19. What would the world be like if China was a direct democracy? 20. What would the world be like if communists acknowledged the existence of ghosts and tried to communicate with them? Thanks for your video. Kind regards from Ásgeir in Iceland.