As a couple of commenters have already pointed out, at a little after 4pm on July 26th 2019 a second train derailed in a very similar fashion on horseshoe curve. This video and the model consist in it are based on the previous derailment, although at first glance it appears the same principles apply.
hi, i am not a train expert, but. when i saw the derailment drone video the other day. first thing i saw was empty cars going around a tight curve with a long load on the tail end. AND i thought, the empty cars did not have the weight to stay on the track going around the curve. so i am happy to see someone else saw the same thing.
You are on point in the demostration! They block the train with light weight on the engines which is never suppose to be blocked that way! When you are going in mulpitle curves the train should be blocked heavy weight on top of the engines not only for traction but for stability of the train! GREAT JOB! Jac Jac!
Thanks, I was thinking that the all of the curves coming up the grade out of Altoona probably added to the rolling resistance of the train and contributed to the derailment to. Once again, something I've encountered in the model world.
I used to know a guy that was a Southern Pacific engineer when I was a kid back in the 70s and even back then he told me you shouldn't put empties on the front of a train. So they've known this for decades but they still do it. If fact with the increases in profit taking and cutbacks like other companies, you see that kind of thing more and more often.
The second demonstration was better , and I think your theory is close. These models can act and behave as the real thing and this is good knowledge for model railroaders going for prototyping operations. ...thx for the video
Everyone keeps saying "they put the empties on the head end." What most fail to realize is that it was just random chance, that's how the cars were shifted into the train the last time they were switched, probably at Allentown. This event is no different than the truck train that straight-lined up at 245 several years ago.
Good reconstruction! i think your right,there has been an excellent thread on the "TRAINS" magazine forum titeled "String lining"running a while discussing exactly this subject. Good job.
Thanks, I've actually been watching the trains forum hoping the "String lining" thread would pick up on this wreck, as there tends to be a few professionals that hang out over there. They were discussing the wreck on another thread called "train makeup 101" though.
@@RailfanS1 Hello there,i am a 73 yr old retiree in the UK, but worked as a fireman /second man(engineer}from age 14 to 23,but although i changed employment i have always been a train watcher!and modeller, never gets out of your blood!i am in the UK and watch the VRF cams regularly and am frequently surprised at the make up of some manifest trains with what appear to be very heavy loads behind or between mostly flat cars or those centre beam timber pack carrying cars , The String lining thread on Trains has made for some very interesting reading? although it has morphed into other subjects but a great thread anyway. Have a good day!
As an engineer, I always watch the amperage on the unit, to make sure I'm not pulling too hard. The same can happen shoving back also. I've seen first hand, an engineer shoving back with air set, through crossovers and the cars just lift up off the rail and down on their side... big mess. I don't know if this train at horseshoe curve was dp'd. If it was, it could've prevented by applying more power at the rear.
@@omega7b948 They will investigate the derailment, and find the cause. It might've been track. It's too early to comment on the cause. It might have been string lining, this model setup looks accurate...
I believe what happend is that the light cars got to the top of the arc and pulled in. Cars should be required to be of a minimum weight or ballasted. In HO, a 6 inch car should weigh 4 ounces. That is a 1 ounce minimum plus 1/2 ounce per inch of car. ... Many clubs require any car run on their layout meet the NMRA recommended weight. Bob
well this looks very well done....i want to point out though they were going uphill and instead perhaps the drawbar did break and what you see is the whiplash from the disconnect instead...either way it looks like several of the CB flats were unroadworthy and were dumped off the hi side of the curve, last i had looked
I suppose that is a possibility, the whiplash from a drawbar breaking under such force would be pretty extreme. It'll be interesting to see what the official cause is determined to be.
I believe it was a string line derailment too. More factors where the fact that they put too many empties up front and that caused coupler straining which in turn caused the derailment.
Thanks for this explanation! Learned something new! And kudos on that graffiti car you've modeled. I keep thinking of doing a camera setup to photograph the cars passing by my company. There are really some very interesting artists out there adding some color to the rails that should get some attention. I think about getting back into the hobby but I don't yet have the space. But when I do, I'd love to have a consist sprinkled with colorful grafitti.
Thanks, i didn't actually apply graffiti to any of these cars though. The gray hopper is a part of Walthers ethanol series, and is a "billboard" paint scheme, featuring ears of corn painted on the side of the car to promote ethanol use.
That was exactly my thought, when I seen how the two trains were made up. Regardless of loads, you have very light weight cars, between heavier cars, on a grade, with a curve. It's more than likely going to go with gravity...
Nice demo, especially w/the 80MAC's simulating weight of the rest of the train. Info available indicates that 34A did not have rear end helper locomotives. Nicely done.
Thanks, I've heard that 34A didn't have helpers also. I actually tried to create the derailment with one of the 80MAC's on the end initially. Even with the 80MAC completely stopped it didn't work, the leaders just dragged it around the layout and the cars stayed on, so I had to add the second.
Our late afternoon local consists of canter beams, grain cars and wood chip cars that are usually all empty and it reaches speeds of up to 60mph. I mean it’s usually under 20 cars long but still
Bingo! I think that's what exactly what happened. Eventhough the video doesn't pick up the wreck when you see the aftermath the derailed cars look like this demonstration.
Yeah, that was my thoughts to "I've seen this somewhere before". Unintentional wrecks of the same type that we've had on the club layout gave me the idea to make this video.
Hey all, string lining in real life works way different than on a model. Train makeups like this are not uncommon. And 8900 tons, while heavy, is still not bad. I’ve had trains up over 10000 tons with a string of empty flat cars on the head end. Stringlining, if the cause, was most likely caused by the lead locomotives pulling erratically(load spiking). Most likely cause of this was the inner rail rolling over from sideways stress which is in correlation with poor track maintenance.
Hi, the blue and yellow cars are Atlas 73' center partition cars, commonly called center beam flatcars. The yellow TTX ones just came out, and might still be available at hobby shops although they sold out very quickly online.
"String line" most probably a major factor, but usually a combination of events and fails are involved. As for unrecorded trial run, In the UK we call that Sod's Law. Thank you sir.
Laws of Physics operate pretty much the same at all scales (larger than the sub-atomic). In other words, scale has little to do with the REASON this happens, only the results scale up or down. Nice work. Thank you for sharing...
Where do you get your centerbeam cars at? I have HO Scale too but I can’t find them on the website I use all the time. I don’t go to another cause I don’t know if I should trust them, so I stuck to Walthers.
I got my center beams from Lombard Hobbies. Model train Stuff is usually my first choice, but the TTX ones I wanted were out of stock as soon as they became available there... Lombard still has most of the road names from this last run in stock, except TTX. I’ve ordered from them once before to, got a great deal on an Athearn Genesis gp15-1, and they’ve been great to deal with both times.
Accident most likely due to putting the light cars in front, though possibly the rear loco's lost power? The improper placing is most likely as you say and it stringlined. I'm also a model railroad N-scale enthusiast who likes running long trains without individual loco AC control, on sick gradients with curves, including using mid train helpers and dummies on the back. I've spent hours setting up a single 70 car 7 loco train that won't derail. Great video!
Because the views of the real accident show the vehicles falling in to the curve there was a tension in the train. If the train had fallen outward there would have been a compression. (Pusher over speed or going down hill without rear braking effort.
I don,t work for the railroad eather, but I can tell you being around trains all my life and into HO scale model railroading this is what will happen if your train isn,t set up right, too many heavy car,s twards the rear with lighter ones in front will cause the lighter one,s to be lifted right off the track do to lack of weight causing a derailment add to that mabie not the best track conditions,or to much power application up front, my HO,s have also done this. 😐😐🤔🤔🚆🛤️. F.M.
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One wonders why the apparent 'lightweights' were disproportionately up front; presumably the pushers were supposed to counter the hazards of the 'stringing' effect. Thanks for the very good demo. Even with the best of track monitoring by NS, a broken wheel, drawbar, or some other malevolent event, can wreak havoc. Too bad the Virtual Railfan Cam is down. This I do know and have experienced: NS does not like people observing their rail activities, even though it is something as seemingly positive and constructive as a derailment cleanup and restoration of service. The cause of the derailment, if ever made public, will be most interesting.
Glad you enjoyed the demo. I'm looking forward to what NS is actually willing to share about this wreck to. I'm thinking that if it's a train makeup error they may not say much at all.
@@RailfanS1 I agree it was possibly a train makeup error, lighter cars in front and heavier to rear. I have also heard a number of times there was no pushers on the back end.
Cam failed due to lightning striking a the fiber optics cable @ HSC. NS had no say or influence in that failure. This is as per a VRF mod. Besides, the cleanup was long done before the outage. The were only tamping T2 when it went offline.
@@Sailor_Saturn1 Thanks for the clarification as to the source of the failure of the Cam. I had no intention of maligning the good folks at NS; they already had their hands full ! Jack Taggart
Thanks, the Conrail engines are powered. I’m running on DCC and all of the engines on the train are speed matched, I derailed the train by slowing down the Conrail engines on the rear which caused their weight to pull the center beams off the track. Check out my video on how I speed match my locomotives for more info.
I love scratched rolling stock, it gives my rolling stock look more realistic, what scale are those paper towels are you using? They look a little to large to be H.O. scale😉 Oh..... and good demonstration I thought that derailment looked like a string liner as well 👍👌.
Last month's Trains had an article about train makeup. I've often wondered why the railroads would allow trains with a consist like this to even leave the yard. However, they do and, they do it often. Not being a railroader, I don't have the answer to that! Will somebody be held to account for this?
Yeah, and I keep hearing they didn't have a manned helper set pushing on the rear either. Can't confirm it, but if true that would have been a contributing factor.
