There are lots of rail fan videos on here. This is so much nicer, seeing videos made by someone who actually works for a railroad. Thank you for doing these.
This was cool! I went to apply at CSX as a signal maintainer / radio man. As I wanted to work on equipment like this. Took the test and the guy kept saying during the test "you will be shoveling ballast stone". I explained all my experience, FCC licenses and education. He looked at me and said "you will be shoveling ballast stone." Thus ended my career with CSX.
Most railroads outssource their radio and IT personnel because it is cheaper, That is what I do for a couple railroads. I dont work for them direct only under contract.
Thank you for explaining all of the line side equipment that helps aid the railroad. I know that hot wheel bearings can cause a derailment if it softens up the axle ends. Excellent video again I thank you sir, happy railroading.
Your certainly welcome Chessie, so pleased to learn you enjoyed the show my good man. There are several other videos on a playlist on my channel home page about this detector if you would sometime care to check them out also.
Thanks for the explanation. I would have expected more equipment in that shed given its size. Neat to see what goes into those detectors. Thanks for posting!!
I've seen trains go by at night with one wheel where the brakes were applied full force, and the steel wheel was glowing red hot and throwing sparks into the dry brush along the tracks heading south. I called 911 and told them about it, and they were totally uninterested until I told them that I knew my call was being recorded, and that they were now responsible for fires set along that track by those sparks, and families killed in their homes as a result. That got the dispatcher's attention, and she said she would get right on it.
Very interesting comment sir, that had to be a real sight after dark! Awesome you got to see that. Always amazed me more fires weren't started along the tracks in them good old days. We've had several fires along the tracks from sparks off the loco engines, one fire was really dry out and the fires spread out over a 5 mile stretch, not one big fire for that long, but lots of little ones. The loco shuttled the fireman up and down the tracks, they had a long afternoon trying to put all those fires out with brooms, hardly anyplace they could get a water truck to.
I keep the emergency contact numbers for the railroads in my area saved in my phone for such occasions. Never seen anything quite like that, but I have seen a rear locomotive spewing sparks. That was an interesting call, because it was a UP locomotive, but when I called UP they said they didn't have any tracks in the area, but when I told them the Loco number they discovered it was running on a BNSF line, so they transferred me over there, at which time I had to convince the BNSF Dispatcher that there was a UP Loco on their line! This was up in Southern Washington where BNSF runs down the center of i5.
This was very interesting. I’ve seen your other videos on this detector and wondered how it knew a wheel was hot or something was dragging. Thanks Dave.
@@Robertx19 All the ones Ive heard just give the axle number and sometimes which side it's one. Guess it just depends on how the detector is programmed.
Not all cars have the same number of axels, it is rare but possible. I would imagine the system just gives axel number because it really can't determine if a car has one, two, or even three axels on a truck (that yoke that connects the wheel axels to the car). Cars usually have two Trucks with two Axels each (four per car). Locomotives have varying number of axels, so that would make it more difficult for the system to count cars, so an accurate axel count is all that is needed. I am sure the engineer has an onboard electronic manifest of his rolling stock. All he has to do is punch in the axel(s) number(s) reported by radio and the system will figure out which car(s) have an issue. It knows the model (hence its axel arrangement) of each car attached, as well as weight, and contents. The engineer needs all this info to adjust for climbing/decending hill's, curves, bridges/trestles, braking, acceleration and such. Am I correct in this?
Alco the Railroad Dog approves of this video. I liked it as well. Where I grew up they wayside buildings were called Silver Pagodas because of their shape.
With a software change we set up a couple at the bottom of a long grade and it would flag the cars where the brakes were not working as they should. BTW the bearing scanner is on the left and it looks at the tiny piece of axle between the bearing and the wheel, the wheel scanner is on the right. Enjoyed the video
Yay! Found the twin to the last one! Wayside bungalow. Sounds fancy! I wondered how you'd find hot wheels (not the mini cars, Lol). Question answered! Also explains some "little sheds" along tracks I've seen before like that. Might be one of those! Thanks for sharing this neat stuff, never disappointed yet!
Your welcome, these things are amazing, the can be programmed, depending on what model detector you get, to record and announce an incredible amount of info, such as : axle count, cars in train, train speed, ambient temp , etc. They record up to 130 trains on their computer logs with info on all bearing and wheel temps. They can send that info to detectors further down the line or to dispatch, and I've only begun to tell you all they can do. Totally amazing the technology behind them, it just boggles me. Thank you for watching
Wow! Some temperature sensors with heaters, a couple small industrial computers, a couple of i/o interfaces a base radio and a battery in a shed. I would have thought 30 grand would have been high, but then you mentioned Caterpillar. That explains it.
Once again, thanks for the back story. I walk along the D&R trail here in the Poconos and wonder. I hope some one explains how the graffiti artist get there work on such unobtainable bridges and so forth.
Thanks very informative. At first I thought why such a big shed for a couple of relatively small electrical panels however I could then see it is designed so one can work inside it if needed, use the radio etc.
Wayne, yes sir, you are right. Bungalow is also cooled in summer and heated in winter all for the comfort of the complicated electrical components, can't remember if I said that in the vid or not.
Hi Dave, As the other viewers have mentioned, thanks very much for the opportunity to see the electronics inside. The outside I have seen. Lol, the inside, not so much. As a Class 2 are you required to maintain a certain number of these detectors or certain kind of detector?
Jeff, i am not aware that there is a federal regulation for having a certain number. From listening to others seems like other railroads have them bout 10 miles apart.
Great video! OK, those huts are called bungalos, good to know. You told me in another video that the Axel Counters are Proximity Transducer Switches. So I guess the Bungalo sends an AC signal down to the Transducers. There must be a coil inside with the core mounted vertically just below where the wheel passes over it (that spot in the middle of the top side of the sensor). When the wheel passes over the coil, the magnetic field changes and the Bungalo electroncs can detect a current change from that (no moving parts for high reliabilty). It counts axels in as they approach the Bungalo, and counts them out as they depart, cool! To prevent false alarms, the system must expect the pulse change to occur at a certain minimum rate. This way, if you use a metal tool near the Transducer, it won't trigger the system too easily. This was very helpful... I am going to make a coil based Proximity Sensor for my O Guage trains. Right now I use Infra-Red (IR) LEDs in my tracks to count axels, determine speed, and activate accesories. Tiny little coils that can detect steel wheels should work in cars that have steel wheels (as most quality O gauage model trains do). But on HO guage it won't work, those wheels are almost always plastic (except on the locomotives). The Hot Wheel detectors are IR cameras (2 on each side of the track). On each side, one measures the overall temperature of the wheel and the other is more focused to the center of the wheel (hub) to measure the temperature of the bearing as it passes. Very clever. You explained in another video that the Equipment Drag Detector is that wedge shaped sensor across the track. If something is being dragged, the object will flip the detector out of position and trigger an alarm. You said there are Switches inside it to detect a dragged object in either direction, I guess it is spring loaded to return upright as the objects pass by.
Glad I could be of some service on the info Paul, when you pass a spike over the transducer you can feel the magnetic pull on the spike. Let me know if I can be of any more assistance my friend.
@@ccrx6700 Next time you place a spike near a Transducer, see if you can feel a 60 Hz vibration (active sense), but I am pretty sure it is just a coil around a strong magnet (passive sense). The metal passing by induces a pulse (or even a spike going onto it makes a pulse and another pulse in the opposite direction when the spike pulled off) in the coil that the electronics can detect. This may explain why the system wants trains to travel at a minimum speed for the system to work. Hey, the other day I saw a video on a Defect system that looked like it had two radar domes (radomes). One on each side of the track, they were rectangular shape. Any idea on what they are?
@@paulromsky9527 When running a spike over it, there is a definite pull down effect, don't know anything about Hz, but you can feel it pulling the spike down. Our detector has 2 boxes on each side, one for hot bearing detection and the other for hot wheel, they are the rectangular boxes you speak of. Any way you can visit us? I can take you there and show what all is involved.
@@ccrx6700 The things I am talking about are on 2 foot or so poles, they are about the size of a bread box. The point toward each other from each side of the track. Let me see if I can find the video. I asked what they are, he didn't know. I think they may detect the gaps between cars over the couplers to count the cars, but maybe they can detect stowaways.
There's an audio chip that has the samples, each word is stored as a WAV file. There is a processor that selects the WAV files to put together. Very cool 😎
I'm not sure who markets the audio gear and software heard here, but NS also uses it. Used to love the detector over at Monon Indiana that gave axle count and train speed, as well as any defects of course.
The detector we have and many of the ones NS has came from Progress Rail. The voice is the same for ours as many of NS and several other railroads. Had 1 guy write in that said was same voice for a Canadian Pacific detector. It's the same voice at milepost 241.0 on Horseshoe Curve. We could also program ours to announce axle count and speed along with several other messages, the guys here chose not to do that with ours. Appreciate your watching
LOL! Timing again...Wasn't the topic of detector tours JUST posted? On this end, it's the tubage which picks the next videos. Well...If they want algorhythms helped a second time...So be it. LOL! Cool video! .............umm...AGAIN. :D
The JACX cars we bought brand new and own them. The CYMX cars were brand new and we leased them, then when the lease ran out we bought them. The OFAX cars we bought used and they came from Denver Col. So we currently own all the cars Steve.
This one just has pyrometers in it. There is a newer one called Powerview which actually has infrared cameras which take a thermal image of each wheel and bearing and perform image analysis to detect problems.
I have to use discretion on what I can relate and what I cannot Steve. Workers who may get injured or killed is not a very good thing to make videos about. I do have several videos of accidents that have happened to rolling stock such as derailments or car bearings gone bad or car doors opening up on track.
The trackside detector building may also be called a doghouse. I'm surprised they didn't ring the bell and give a quick short blast on the horn, was an FRA mandate when I was railroading. Couldn't tell if they had headlights on on either end of the locomotives.
Good question Max. Our detector is not, all transmissions are sent over our RR radio so all who have a radio can hear. However out there on the other RR's such as Norfolk Southern, etc. yes the message is sent to dispatch along with the locomotive engineer. Thank you so much for taking the time to watch the video and write in my friend. May you have a most blessed day.
Yes it is, I was really surprised when we installed it at how big that cabinet was, but guess Progress Rail can charge more for a bigger cabinet...LOL Appreciate your watching William
The default detector does that scan the hole wheel or just the spot that passes over it? I really like your videos. I find them really informative. Keep up the good work.
Awesome question Matthew and one that I don't have an accurate answer for. The scanner box bolted to the rail has an opening about 1 or so inches wide, so am thinking that is the width of the scan. It takes an infrared picture of the wheel and bearing, then the computer figures out the temperature, pretty darn high tech, far above my pay scale...LOL Appreciate your watching sir
Sorry, more questions: How far apart are the axel counters at a hot wheel/defect detector? Also, how far are the trigger sensors (I guess axel counters as well) from road crossings. I notice that the signals/gates are activated well before a train reaches the crossing (it make sense), but the signals/gates deactivate right after the last car clears the crossing. I assume there are 4 sensors: one far down the track on each side of the crossing, and one just past the crossing on each side. That is what I had to do on my train detectors (I use IR LEDs) to get that more realistic look: plenty of notice to activate as the train approaches but deactivate as soon as the train passes.
Approximately 40 or so feet, if you need an exact measurement write me back and I will get that for you. Only 2 sensors, they activate the shutters on the cameras immediately after a sensor finds a wheel to go over it. They are magnetic, you can take a spike and run it across the sensor and it will open the shutters on the cameras. I can even set the detector off to give a message by waving spikes over the sensor, in and then have another person on the exit sensor do the same. One time we had an operator who was notorious for going over the speed limit. We played a joke on him by setting the message off with spikes, it gave a train to slow message. We kidded the operator, well that didn't mean you! LOL
@@ccrx6700 40 feet or so, thanks. I am sure they calibrate the system for the exact placement. For my trains I will use 40 feet at O-Scale. I just posted a video on this based on your input. It is in my Trains Model and Real playlist. Feedback welcome. Thanks
Yes and installation, that was 4 years ago so would imagine it more now, but having the detector there has caught 4 hot bearings so far and saved us that much money from derailments and tore up track. Thank you for watching
Back in 2020 the progress rail micro for the CSX defect detector was replacing into a STC smartscan NG2 after the wrong milepost but they changed a milepost 507.1 at Huntington, West Virginia.
I listened to a train coming into the US from Ontario thru Rainier Mn. It was moving about 10 mph and had what sounded like a broken or cracked wheel. I wondered at the time if they had devices to detect that type of problem. It rolled past a CN office and Customs office. Later that day I heard they had a derailment just down the line, (16 cars) at low speed. I have no idea if it was related. CN staff never notify local officials about things like this.
Some RR's do have an impact detector on some sections, but some RR's don't have them so hard to tell on the CN division you heard that on. They are called WILD, wheel impact load detectors. A flat spot on a wheel or a broken wheel can be the cause of a derailment. lbfoster.com/en/market-segments/rail-technologies/solutions/rail-monitoring/track-monitoring-systems
RE: hook flange guard rail reply to you. This type was almost predominately used by predecessor Southern RR. You may still find them being used by N S now.
They are on both sides of the rails Steven so they can check both sides of the car or loco wheels. Thanks for stopping by and checking out the video my friend.
You said it counted in and out, so if there was an issue would it tell you something like axle 38? So you would know which car to check? Great channel by the way. I stumbled upon it and have been captivated.
Ralph, yes sir, if it gives a critical alert message, the detector will give the axle number and the side of the rail, either north or south. 6 axles on the loco, then count back from there, it is an amazing piece of technology. Thank you very much for your kind comment, I am glad you are enjoying the show. Stay tuned sir, got a lot of good videos planned for this coming year. I do appreciate your watching.
The way some of these hot box detectors work is like this: A short range track circuit or 2 transducers start the detector as the train passes over them. The shutters on the scanners then open up and start scanning and reading the temperature on each bearing. Some, like the one in this video also have scanners to read the wheel temperature as well as the bearing temperature. The transducers are counting the axles. Since there are two transducers, it also determines the direction of the train. If it detects a hot bearing, usually anything above 180 degrees for the axle bearing or 540 degrees for the wheel, it takes the axle count from the transducers and announces it over the radio. Train crew then stop, walk their train, count axles and use a tempil stick and check the bearing temperature. Sometime it is just a handbrake that was not released. If it is a true hot bearing, the car is set out at the nearest siding, yard track, team track, etc.....
Prob is, made by Progress Rail, there a lot of them scattered across the country. One guy from a Canadian RR wrote in and said it was the same voice they had on theirs
I believe the Micro Defect Detector is an ultrasonic unit, the transducers mounted on the inside of the rail. Those appear to be EAC coupled Rayleigh wave transducers. Or I could be way off. It could be a WLID.
Wow, I'm not sure, I do have some CD's that came with the unit, will have to look that up sometime. All I know is the gated transducers send a signal to the detector circuitry which counts axles in one one end and axles out on the other. Appreciate your watching
Hi, they're magnetic transducers that generates about 1/2 Volt AC for each wheel flange passing over it. The Micro Defect Detector uses infra-red based sensing comparing the wheel bearing heat & wheel heat for the "Hot Wheel Detector scanners" to the ambient outdoor temperature. The 2 transducers near the scanners at time mark 4:06 tells the system to collect (if I remember correctly) 32 samples per wheel bearing. Those are called the "Gating Transducers" and the furthest Transducers (at time mark 4:31) away from the scanners are the "Advance Start Transducers" (one in each direction) that will open the scanner shutters, turn off the 110VAC that powers the internal scanner heaters to prevent snow build up & condensation for the internal optics (electrical noise elimination reasons). The Advance Transducers also help to determine train direction & speed calculations.
thank you 2:22 460mhz "space is time" What band is 460 MHz? The 460-470 MHz band is allocated to the non-Federal fixed and land mobile radio services on primary basis and to the Federal meteorological-satellite (space-to-earth) service on a secondary basis.Mar 1, 2014
Why is the DD running on a UHF frequency? Do shortlines typically use UHF? I had a shortline near my house (ceased operations in August last year RIP EFRX) and I had no idea what frequency they used. Never picked up any close calls from them, nor could I find them on radioreference.com. Granted, they only had 1 locomotive, but they would regularly interchange cars with the BNSF.
Wow, you ask some serious questions that i have no answers for. I dont understand radio stuff like that, but hopefully someone that does will answer. Thanks for watching
@@ccrx6700 Ah, ok. My local subdivision (BNSF Scenic Subdivision) runs on 161.100. Most railroad frequencies are between 160 and 161 (maybe a few on 162, but not many). The only other frequency would be the EOTD/FRED (whatever you wanna call it) frequency on 427.9375, in the UHF band.
@@ccrx6700 You're probably using one the FCC Industrial/Business pool frequencies, which can be assigned to any business such as a shopping mall, towing company, etc.
Glad you enjoyed it Mid Michigan EMD Railfan. Not something a whole lot of folks ever get to see inside a detector cabinet. Thanks so much for taking the time to check out the video and may you have a very good day my friend.
Service would be underground from a riser/meter base and possibly a load center on the utility pole where the mains feed is. NESC gets kinda paranoid about overhead cables near railroads.
Wayne, some of the cars do have gps or other tracking devices on the bigger railroads, that sends real time info. Obviously there is no need for our cars to have that technology, but railroadin is going high tech out there. Lots of new types of tracking is happening. Great question and thank you for watching
Good question Andrew. it counts wheels. When a hot wheel or bearing is detected it will give an alarm and give the exact axle the defect is on. Thanks so much for watching and writing in my friend.
It ben a long time seance I herd just passing the chicken farm . I listen to CSX when I was at Emerald... Milepost detector was in my scanner and still is .. Happy memory's..
Neat Pat! I did not know anyone else could hear our radio channel. How sad to me it was when Emerald left us. They are going to raze the prep plant soon, our new owners have announced. Were you able to stay in the mining industry or have you moved on?
Back to Shipping. Went to UPS... I Retired the Security Company at Cumberland Scales in 2003. Moved back to Illinois. Bought a house and now it just search the net for whatever and whoever,, Miss Novak. ,Jerry "High lift"
It is amazing what solid state digital technology has done and is still doing to improve out every day lives. This also gives me concern for what may, scratch that, will happen with the next time a soar flair hits our planet and the resulting disruption of all this stuff.
It is scarry when you think about it how much stuff is digital tech. Think about this too, with these super long trains other RR are running, when signal is lost or disrupted to the DPU's the weight if going uphill yanks all those couplers apart and really gives the lead loco a huge jerk. Think about all the computer tech running these trains with the PTC, if something goes hay wire, ugly things can happen
The cost probably includes equipment, shed, burying cables, shutting down the line to install the detectors, on-site maintenance, liability, etc. And it probably requires a support guarantee for 40 years.
Why does such a tiny gap between rail lengths excite such a loud 'kerthunk-athunk, kerthunk-athunk'? I hope the electronic equipment is located on a remote part of the line. I'd be concerned about vandalism.
The gated transducers tell the detector that axles are passing over, that begins the process whereby the shutters are opened on the detectors. Yes they do count the axles in and on the other side axles out. Once the shutters are opened they take an infrared picture of every wheel and bearing, translate that into digital which is recorded in the processor in the wayside bungalow. It is an amazing piece of technology, and what we have is a basic model. the best ones out there are just mind boggling what they can do, record and send info. thank you for watching Gordon, good question sir.
I'm a sinal maintainer. We use SOTC's (short overlay track circuits) for presence detection. They operate on a few kilohertz and the senstivity can be adjusted for however long or short you want your detection approach to be. Those trigger tthe shutters on our systems.
@@gordoncrisp3060 Awesome Gordon, I do believe you can program into this detector that parameter also, although I have no clue how it's done. This thing is amazing what all can be programmed and what it can do. I am certainly no way near any kind of technician like you are. I do thank you so much for your inputs. It is also amazing how reliable they are.
Count 'em in, count 'em out... Rawhide! [laugh]. Questions: Suppose the train stops within the Bungalo' detectors? Will it give a slow/stopped train warning? Suppose for some reason the count in does not match the count out, does that alert to a derailure? This is an amazing system. I bet your cohorts that work, in say the Bronx, must have a time dealing with vandals mucking with these sensors and breaking into the Bungalos. Have you see the train theves in the LA area? They jump on slow moving trains, cut the bolts off containers and steal the contents. The tracks are heavily littered with open boxes - crooks don't care about picking up after themselves.
Yes most generally if the train stops within the gated transducers then starts it will give a train too slow, depends on the speed of the train as it first passes over the transducers. At either end are magnetic switches which count axles in and axles out, these are called gated transducers. If train is going slower than 5 then you get a train too slow because the detector works best at 5 or above. It will work at below 5 but the results from it's findings may or may not be accurate. We have never had that happen where the count in and out does not match, however as you noticed once the train goes over the detector there is a 15 second wait before a message is given. During that time the detector is doing an integrity check of it's components, so I suppose if the count does not match an integrity failure message will be given. Then someone has to get into the computer to find out what failure that would be caused by. There are many reasons for that message and only can find the answer in the computer.
Right next to the Matchbox. :P Lol. But seriously, I didn't see any obvious hot wheels either, but then again I suppose that's exactly why the detector is there!
You guys are using UHF 464 MHz for the radios? I figured you would be on the VHF railroad band 160 MHz. anyways all that is is a computer and sensors with a voice synth connected to a radio. Thats the basic description. going more in dept like how it's programmed in C or C#, running a distro of busybox linux, and mp3, ogg or wav files may be too much lol so I will keep it simple.
Good question! After the rolling stock wheels have passed over the cameras and out of the gated transducer (the counter that counts wheels in and wheels out), it does what it calls an integrity check where it is checking itself for defective sensors or readers or things of that nature, it's quite technical and I really don't know what all or how it does it. If it finds a problem in the system it will announce, Integrity failure. Depends on what the problem is, but it can still record certain information from the train which can then be found in the computer train log. It records all data for up to 130 trains and then starts to write over them.
@@ccrx6700 Thanks for the info. So as long as the self diagnostic isn't defective then it can detect defects and we're good to go. Gotta love technology.
@@TheRantingCabbie yes sir, these detectors are totally amazing. They also average temps between all the bearings and wheels on 1 car, and they can send real time data to dispatch and on to the next detector down the line which will calculate that info into each car, and send that info on to the next detector, and so on. Just amazing to me!!!
@@TheRantingCabbie yes there is. We do a daily roll by visual inspection, plus they try to walk the trip with a heat gun checking bearing temps a couple times a week
IR photo Diod with a microprocessor measuring voltage difference between ambient and sample. If the difference is greater than a set amount, the data in the stack is marked as positive. Why they are still doing voice alarm no one knows. Best way is to transmit from there to on train computer to give direct visual to the conductor. New tech is semi monitoring gives in cab information.
Thank you terenfro for the highly technical comment. One thing to satisfy your curiosity is these old locos don't have computers, just a radio so via radio is only way operator will know of a problem. It is also very helpful for the track crew and mechanics and office to be able to hear an alert. that way everyone is on the go to get to the detector site where the train will be stopped. Appreciate your visiting with us today my good man.
If you would like i will explain how this thing works. The thing next to the track takes pictures of each wheel and bearing essentially doing all the hard labor. This info is sent to the middle management and a report is filed. The report is then sent to upper management in a digital file. Upper management then uses actuaries and algorithms to produce a recomendation of action. Effectively giving upper management plausible deniability in the event of failure or blowback. Barring any catastophic failure the wheel or bearing will be replaced. And life goes on. Hows that ? Lol
Yes sir, this is a kinda stripped down basic model, what the good models can do totally boggle my miind, it just incredible the technology that is out there.
There's an IP camera. Where does that go ? There must be internet in there. Is it fed to the security company ? Can you see it at the office ? It should have it's own static IP address and port number that you can view on any computer on the internet. It would be nice to add that to a live rail cam on your website or RU-vid.
I know that that frequency is not licensed checked the entire FCC database and nothing has been licensed for your railroad operations which you must cease immediately because you're operating unlicensed on a business band frequency
