How a Pressure Tank Works and why you need a Cycle Stop Valve 

Thanks for the kind words. I am glad it helped.

Yes, i need one as well.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 I deleted my post for 2 reasons, I have only seen videos of why not to have a csv, They can be misinformation since I noticed a few sketchy things that make you doubt truth or lie. Common Sense tells you if you return the same water in a small test tank and cycle a pump, it's going to heat up so going to investigate further before making a statement that may not be right. Second, I do notice a big amp drop after start up so you may be right, keeping it running may allow it to run better and longer, Personal experience with jet pumps, I notice you can get double the life by just letting it run and I can say that with truth since I did just that, my old jet system never shut off on purpose, got tired of changing pressure switches and even a small issue, shut down, clear system, fix issue, waste time priming lines and rinse/repeat, I set it to run constant and had little issue's plus it stayed cooler, I switched to submersible and kept the same set up except my pump works so good, it fills the 30 gallon tank so fast it barely ever runs for 15 seconds every couple hours unless you use washer/tub/shower. Even then it barely cuts on, But if your csv does what it says, pump barely will ever run at even 50%, I would guess like jet pump, draw less power, never trip the pressure switch and still keep 33psi, the only question I have is what happens to back pressure from not using water, would that not build back pressure? My jet pump returned water in a loop but the sub has no return, what happens to back pressure? Pump would be pushing water with no where to go if nothing is being used.

@@Klemin2012 Thanks. You are starting to understand. There is no water being recirculated. If you are not using the minimum 1 GPM coming through the CSV, then the 1 GPM fills the pressure tank until the pump is shut off. Jet pumps don't drop much in amps, but are air cooled motors and doesn't make any difference on water flow for cooling. The back pressure will be as much as your pump can build when thinking the well is deeper, which is how the CSV controls flow. But no pump can build more pressure than it can stand. Back pressure is a good thing as that is what makes the amps drop and the motor to run cooler.

I know the blank stare you are talking about. To be such a simple valve the CSV has a complicated explanation and a hundred ways to use it. I have tried for 25 years to find a better way to explain it. I am glad the animation video helped. :)

All that was debunked over 30 years ago, which is also how long we have been using Cycle Stop Valves to replace VFD's or Variable Frequency Drives. I thought VFD's were great as well back in the late 80's and early 90's. Then I got smart and figured out pump amps will drop naturally without varying the speed. When I figured out a simple, inexpensive, long lasting, mechanical (no electric) valve was a better pump control than a VFD I never looked back. Someday maybe you will get smart too. All you have to do is research or test it for yourself to figure out everything you said is incorrect. You can't get a better pump control than a Cycle Stop Valve.

There are bladder tanks and there are diaphragm tanks. Some bladder tanks have the air inside the bladder, some have water. All diaphragm tanks that I know of only have water under the diaphragm. The most important thing to make a tank last is to limit the pump cycling. With every pump cycle the diaphragm or bladder expands and contracts. it is like bending a wire back and forth until it breaks. It is only going to take so many bends. You could use up all the bends in a short time by letting the pump cycle on/off too much, or you can make a bladder/diaphragm last many years by reducing or eliminating the cycling by using a Cycle Stop Valve. The second most important part of making a tank last is getting one where the bladder/diaphragm does not touch the sides when expanding and contracting. It is hard to make a bladder that doesn't touch the tanks sides, and easy to make a diaphragm expand and contract without touching the tank. Oh, and tanks with replaceable bladders are the worst, as they are made to need replacing regularly. In other words diaphragm tanks are better than bladder tanks, but any tank will last longer when working with a Cycle Stop Valve.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks! I find that Wellmate makes a fiberglass well tank with a top replaceable air cell. They apparently have a quick disconnect for the plumbing as well. I just recharged my bladder tank idf I have to replace it I am considering a Wellmate tank and a CSV.

@@shofar-man The bag or bladder in a well mate tank tends to wrinkle when it expands and contracts. The fold or wrinkle is where it will break. Look at the flex lite. They are fiberglass with a diaphragm.

Cycle Stop Valves work just as good on booster pumps as on well pumps.

Even the new variable speed pumps just turn on and off all the time you are using water. But if you have a regular pressure switch it is probably not a variable speed pump and the Cycle Stop Valve will solve your problem and give you strong constant pressure in the shower.

Thank you! All filters, softeners, and such should be placed after the CSV/pressure tank on the line going to the house. Keep in mind filters and softeners lose quite a bit of pressure through them. So, you may want to set up your system with 60 PSI constant from the CSV using a 50/70 pressure switch instead of the usual 40/60 pressure settings.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 thank you so much. Have a great weekend

If you have a CSV and the pump is still cycling, just loosen the adjustment bolt on the CSV or increase the pressure setting of the pressure switch until the pump runs continuously while you are using water.

That worked well, I settled on 55 in a 40-60 system, and it is doing as advertised. The Animation got through my confusion like no written explanation has, excellent work, Thank you again.

You could not be more wrong! Restricting the flow decreases amperage and heat in the motor windings, not the other way around. The pump can work almost anywhere on its curve without varying the speed. Fact is the high voltage spikes and rapid rate of switching from an inverter "VFD" cause high temperature in the motor windings and shorten motor life. Cycle Stop Valves make motors run cooler and last longer, which is why VFD or inverter companies feed you so much BS, trying to keep you from trying a CSV, which will make your pump/motor last 30+ years.

Thank you! Then you might also like this one as well. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4GhE-1Midgc.html

The CSV is just a simple valve. It cannot and doesn't need to control motor speed, just water flow. The pump only runs continuously when you use water, as compared to cycling on and off while you use water, which is bad for pumps.

Yes. That is why we check those things when recommending a CSV. But usually there is only 30-50 PSI more on the pipe than the normal pressure that happens because of the depth of the well and the pressure on the pressure switch. If the pump is 260' deep when the pressure switch gets to 60 there is 175 PSI on the pipe at the bottom of the well, even without a CSV.

Those are very good questions. The CSV can never completely close, so it can never deadhead a pump. There is no electric to the CSV. Pumps just normally reduce in amperage when restricted with a valve of any kind. Here is a video to explain the technical stuff. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3GABhLLtjas.html

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Throttling down the flow to 50 GPM is making the pump work harder. Harder = more power to overcome a restriction. I'm sorry but where I come from it takes the life out of the pump and will shortens it life. Not to mention the added energy cost. Am I missing something?

@@dantedenardis1385 Yeah you are missing a lot! Pumps work just the opposite of the way you are thinking. Pumps work easier when the flow rate is reduced, not harder. The energy a pump uses decreases not increases when the flow is restricted, which increases not decreases the life of a pump. Pumps are counter intuitive, which is why you are thinking wrong. See this video for a more technical explanation. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3GABhLLtjas.html

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Okay I might have learned just something new in this. Youare right , it is counter intuitive to think that the harder a pump pushes through a reduced orifice the less energy it is going to use. Thanks for giving me something to think about at 3am ....lol

@@dantedenardis1385 I am glad someone besides me is up at 3AM thinking about this stuff. Lol. It is one of the hardest things to explain. I have tried many ways in almost 30 years and still get the same question everyday. It is the centrifugal impeller that is the magical thing here. It only draws a load depending on how much weight it is lifting. The actual definition of horsepower is the ability to lift 33,000# of weight one foot in one minute. One gallon of water weighs 8.33 pounds. It takes a lot more HP to lift 50 gallons a minute than is does to lift 1 gallon a minute. Restricting the pump to make this happen causes the impeller(s) to just spin in nice cool lubricant and not draw any load, as they don't actually touch anything.

The Cycle Stop Valve will let you pump a weak well dry if you open too many faucets. The Cycle Sensor is designed to sense a dry well and shut the pump off. The pump doesn't cycle when it pumps the well dry, but it will burn out if not shut off fairly soon. The Cycle Stop Valve does allow you to use a very small amount of water without cycling the pump. So if your well only makes 4 GPM, and you only open 3 GPM worth of faucets, the CSV will make the pump only supply 3 GPM and you won't pump the well dry.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks! What about winterizing the cycle stop valve? Is a drain valve required on each side of the valve, or can water flow backward through the valve for draining the system?

Just drain the pipe on both sides of the CSV for winterizing.

The pressure gauge has nothing to do with the function of the pump. The pressures switch will still turn the pump on at 40 and off at 60 even if there was no gauge. But gauges are like everything else in a pump system which is destroyed from the pump cycling on and off too much.

The CSV1A as comes in the PK1A kit is designed to handle some sand or sediment. Just put all your filters and softeners after the PK1A kit or after the pressure tank.

The CSV must be before the pressure tank/pressure switch. When the pressure tank is screwed directly to the 3/4 port in the CSV1A the tank is on the outlet side of the CSV.

It is not the small things that cause cycling problems. It doesn't hurt if your pump cycles on for every toilet flush, although it doesn't. What hurts is repetitive cycling during long showers or watering the yard. Your water doesn't come from the tank, it comes from the well/pump. Pressure tanks are only to reduce the on/off cycling, and when you have a Cycle Stop Valve to do that for you, a large tank is just a waste of money and space. See this chart for number of cycles with or without a CSV for just house use only. The CSV and small tank still cycle less than a large tank with no CSV. Then if you have any long term uses like yard watering, there is no comparison as the CSV will cycle the pump only once, while without the CSV the pump will cycle hundreds of times. Average Cycles Pump Cycles for Family of Four with No Irrigation Cycle Stop Valve Pressure NO CSV CSV50 PSI CSV50 PSI CSV50 PSI Pressure Tank Size 20 Gallon 4.4 Gallon 10 Gallon 20 Gallon Average Daily Cycles 35 31 25 18

Normally filters are installed after the CSV/pressure tank.

Lol! You would think so right? But that is not how pumps work. Pumps work on a curve. Your 12 GPM pump will produce 12 GPM at low pressure, or 1 GPM at a higher pressure. Submersibles will pump 12 GPM from a shallow well, but only 1 GPM if the well is deep enough. You don't have to slow a pump down to make it pump less water, just make it think it is in a deeper well by closing a valve to increase the pressure. The amazing and counter intuitive thing about pumps is that the amps or power needed decreases with flow, even though the pressure is increasing. Close a valve down to 1 GPM and the pump is only pumping 1 GPM. There maybe 100 PSI in the pump case, but the impeller is just spinning like a top in the perfect coolant and lubricant, and not drawing any load. Same thing happens when you put your hand over a blow dryer or vacuum cleaner. The amps don't go up, they are reduced when the flow is blocked off. You can hear the motor speed up because it it not blowing air and there is no load. Centrifugal pumps work the same way. The CSV just makes the pump think it is in a deep well when only a little water is needed, and makes the pump think it is in a shallow well when you open up more faucets to use more water. Proven science even though very few people understand how pumps really work. See the video about pump curves. Thanks

Had no idea. Thanks for the awesome explanation.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Is it true only for submersible pumps or also for jet pumps? Thanks

@@lisinsignage the amps don't drop as much with a jet pump, but it will work down to 1 gpm as well with no problem.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks !!

There is no average pressure from a submersible pump. Every pump is different and the water level in every well is different. It is not common to have more than about 150 PSI, but 90-120 is more common. Give me the size of your pump and the water level in the well and I can tell you exactly how much pressure will be before the CSV. And sure you can use as large a tank as you want with a CSV, if you just like wasting money, space, and waiting on the strong constant pressure to happen. It doesn't hurt if your pump cycles for every 2-3 gallons used, which is doesn't when you see how the CSV works. The CSV takes off so many cycles for the long term uses of water that you can't hurt the pump flushing a toilet even a hundred times per day. Pump companies labeled the CSV as a disruptive product almost 30 years ago as it makes pumps last longer and uses smaller pressure tanks. A product that is disruptive to the pump industry is the best thing you can do for your pump and your pocketbook. If pump companies don't like it, it is the best thing for you.

Thanks for the reply! We have a new 1/2 hp Zoeller pump, the well is 150’ with water level typically at 75’. We actually bought a CSV Kit, just haven’t installed it yet due to worries about the potential pressure on the old plumbing from the well casing to the house.

@@jriley309 What gpm is the pump?

I believe it’s 12 gpm. Thanks again for the response

@@jriley309 A 12 gpm 1/2 hp pump can only make about 80 psi max.

I see, Thank you. I think I will be purchasing the CSV system sounds great, Thanks again.

does this run 220 or 110 current? I've scoured the web, but I can't find the answer.

The CSV doesn't connect to power in any way. It will work with any size pump running on any voltage needed.

Well the pressure switch and pressure tank need to be close together and after the CSV. But the CSV can be at the well or just before the pressure tank/pressure switch. The CSV is usually installed at the well when there are hydrants or tees in the line before it gets to the pressure tank at the house.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 My pressure switch and tank are about 20 feet apart and have been since I've owned the house. But if I'm going to install a CSV, should I move the pressure tank out to where the switch is?

@@geronimomadmartin3499 Yes or move the switch closer to the tank.

It is the other way around. The SQE was introduced in 1999 to compete with the constant pressure of the Cycle Stop Valve that was introduced in 1993. They wanted something to produce constant pressure that would not make pumps last forever like a CSV. The CSV and variable speed pump both vary the flow and deliver constant pressure. The PWM or pulse width modulator, which is a VFD, is like a Rube Goldberg contraption compared to the simple Cycle Stop Valve. The mechanical CSV does in one simple step what a VFD takes thousands of bits and bytes and components to computerize and line up correctly to accomplish the same task. I agree you need a soft start if you are forced to live on solar. But you don't need variable speed to get soft start. The SQE pump is just a full speed SQ pump when a simple pressure switch is used instead of the CU301 controller. But it still has the 5 second soft start built into the motor. The SQ pump has become fairly reliable even though it spins 3 times as fast as a normal pump. It is the CU301 most people have problems with and have to expensively replace on a regular basis. That is when most people find us as they are looking for an alternative to the CU301. Amazingly, the SQ pump has almost as good of a drop in amps when restricted with a CSV as when slowed with the CU301 (VFD). Replacing the CU301 with a Cycle Stop Valve and normal pressure switch makes the SQ pump many times more reliable and long lasting. As neither the SQE or Aquavar are "tankless" like the ones you quoted me discussing, the existing little tank will also be fine with the CSV. I like "rare" systems. I have never seen one where the CSV couldn't do as good or better than a VFD. Yes, the CSV is more economical, but it is also simpler and makes pumps last longer than a VFD. You also won't loose the soft start feature when replacing the CU301 with a CSV. And although soft start is helpful with inverters or generators, varying the speed with a VFD causes the pump to use more Kw per gallons produced. You get more gallons per Kw from your solar or batteries if you use a full speed pump to fill a pressure tank as quickly as possible and let the pump shut off. A VFD is just a Rube Goldberg gimmic when it comes to pumping water. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/vfd-repair-kit

We have kits that come with either a 4.5 or a 10 gallon size tank, which works for most applications. 1HP or smaller pump running at 40/60 or less with a single family home only needs the 4.5 gallon size tank. Any larger family, extra house, 1.5HP pump or larger, or running higher than 40/60 pressure should use the 10 gallon size tank. More than a couple houses and I would use a 20 gallon size tank. Look at the kit model PK1A.

Yep close a valve and if the amps don't drop that is the best way to diagnose a bad thrust bearing in the motor. But you can run these regular centrifugal pumps at much lower flow rate than you would think. Now I am talking about using cool water only, as hot water applications have a much higher minimum flow required. The minimum flow in a Cycle Stop Valve is set to maintain adequate flow to keep the pump from getting hot. The cool water being pumped can never increase in temperature by more than 10F degrees from inlet to outlet. As long as you don't let the fluid get hot, water has excellent cooling and lubricating values. A little re-circulation doesn't hurt anything, and won't cause any cavitation until the water heats, which it is not going to do. Vibration on a large end suction centrifugal pump can happen if the shaft slenderness ratio is too low. A small diameter shaft cannot hold the weight and force of a large impeller extended on the end of the shaft. But if it is a well built pump to start with, it won't vibrate even at very low flow rates, just like when you are testing at shut off. Multi-stage and submersible pumps, which are most common in these applications, have bearings on both ends of each impeller and are not prone to vibration from shaft flexibility. Even if there were a little vibration or cavitation, it would be far less harmful for the pump/motor than letting the pump cycle on/off to supply varied demands.

You need the Cycle Sensor to protect your well pump from running dry. The Cycle Stop Valve would go on the booster pump to keep it from cycling to death and to deliver strong constant pressure to the house.

The pump should be installed after the holding tank, but prior to a pressure tank. The CSV would go after the pump and before the pressure tank/pressure switch. The CSV only causes the pump to run when you are using water. But if you use water 24 hours a day, the CSV will make the pump run 24 hours a day, which is a good thing. Without the CSV the pump would cycle on/off to death when using water for long periods of time.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 and how do i order this for delivery to Canada ?

@@thisisme7984 We have shipping to Canada on our site or you can all us. 806 885 4445

The CSV125 valves do not like sand, but the CSV1A can handle quite a bit of sediment. However, it is always best to keep sand and sediment out of the CSV when possible. And as long as the filter is rated for the max pressure the pump can build, the filter can go before the CSV. Give me a pump model number and the depth to water in the well and I can tell you how much pressure will be on the filter before the CSV.

the well pump is 2ST52-12PLUS-P4-2 50' calculated head 200' distance to well with rise of 20' I was hoping to set csv to maintain 55. do think that would be possible?

That pump can only make 103 PSI max. If your water level is 75', that pump can only deliver 70 PSI to the surface. So yes you can run the CSV at 55 PSI with a 40/60 pressure switch. However, at 75' lift plus 55 PSI that pump can only produce 7 GPM. If you use more than 7 GPM the pressure will be lower than 55 PSI. As long as the filter is rated for 100 PSI or better it will be fine installed prior to the CSV.

My math shows 400 gallons in 10 hours is 0.6 of a GPM. A jet pump with a CSV1A will stay running with flows down to about 0.5 GPM, and a submersible will stay running with as little as 1.0 GPM. So, if you have a submersible just use a little larger tank than normal with the CSV. Although it will still cycle, it will be a very slow cycle. With a 40 gallon size tank that holds 10 gallons of water, you supply pump will be still have to come on every 30-40 minutes.

The CSV would have nothing to do with that problem. If your well only makes 7 GPM and you are letting out 23 GPM, the well will be pumped dry as soon as the extra water stored in the wells static level is depleted. Can probably only run 23 GPM for 10 minutes or so before you pump a 7 GPM well dry. Now if you have a 23 GPM pump and the well only makes 7 GPM, then if you only open up 7 GPM or less, the CSV will make the 23 GPM pump only put out 7 GPM or the exact amount you are using, so in this way the CSV can help keep from pumping the well dry. In low yield wells the Cycle Sensor will protect the pump if the well runs dry. Using the Cycle Sensor for protection and in combination with a Cycle Stop Valve will let you get the most out of any low producing well.

I am sorry you still don't get it. As you can see I have tried many ways to explain this simple valve. And it is a simple valve. It just closes to reduce the flow from the pump, making the pump think it is in a deeper well, which makes it pump less water. The CSV just cannot close to less than 1 GPM. So as long as you are using more than 1 GPM the pump NEVER cycles. When you are no longer using any water, the 1 GPM coming through the CSV has no place left to go except the pressure tank. Then the pressure tank is filled to the pump shut off pressure and the pump is shut off. The next time you use water you cause another cycle. The pump only cycles for each individual time you start using water. But the pump NEVER cycles as long as the water is running, like systems without a CSV do.

Sure as long is it is a regular centrifugal or jet pump. The CSV won't work with positive displacement pumps like those 12 volt RV type pumps.

Sure we do that all the time. You just stagger the pressure switch and CSV settings so the highest pressure pumps come on first and the lowest pressure ones last. I have one system with eleven well pumps scattered across a sub-division. We give each pump 3 PSI difference from the last, like 60/80, 57/77, 54/74, and so on. Here is a link to an animation with two pumps you can play with. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/home-two-well-system

It doesn't matter if it is gravity fed to the pump, drawing from a storage tank, or a well, anytime you have a system that requires water to automatically come on when you open a faucet or turn on the irrigation you need a Cycle Stop Valve. CSV's work great on booster pumps as well as submersible pumps. It doesn't matter if you are boosting city water pressure, well, or tank water.

For deep well jet pumps with the pressure control valve, you just put the CSV after the pressure control valve.

The CSV will work with any pressure tank. However, a bladder or diaphragm type tank is best. Then yes all you need is to add the CSV before your tank and before any water lines or hydrants tee off. If it is not a bladder/diaphragm style tank it takes a little more consideration to work with an air maker system, but it will still work.

Pumps do not need to rest. Pumps are made for "continuous duty". They will last longer running 24/7 than if it cycles on and off even a few times per day. I have a pump feeding a stock tank that hasn't shut off in 15 years. Just like a diesel engine in a truck, they are made to run 24/7. Start and stop them 50-100 times a day and you will need a new one shortly.

The only way you can get 6 bar pressure from a pump that can only do 5 bar max is to have at least 1 bar inlet pressure to the pump. A pressure vessel can only store the pressure it is given, it cannot increase the pressure.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Your example shows a 25gpm pump @ 50psi, how then can the pressure switch turn off at 60 psi? Turns on at 40psi yes but from what you just said the pump can only push 50psi out to the tank and the tank can only store the pressure it is given. How then can the tank reach a pressure of 60psi to turn the pump off?

@@waltermelyon4300 Because the CSV is set at 50 PSI and will maintain 50 PSI when using more than 1 GPM. But the CSV cannot close to less than 1 GPM. So when no water is being used the 1 GPM "leaking" through the CSV has no place left to go except the tank. The tank is filled at 1 GPM until it is full to 60 PSI and the pressure switch shuts off the pump.

With a 40/60 pressure switch, the pump should come back on as soon as the pressure drops to 40. The CSV really has nothing to do with that. Either the pressure switch is not turning the pump back on for some reason, or the overload in the pump is tripping on startup. You might also have a low pressure cut off lever on the side of your pressure switch that you must hold to get the pump started. If that is the case, you could have too much air charge in the tank, causing the pressure to bottom out before the pump starts. 40/60 switch , needs 35 PSI air in the tank when empty of water.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank so much for your quick response and the insight. I have two pressure switches, one with the cut off lever on the side and the other without it. Both have the same issue. At first, I thought it was a low water level in the well, so it was replaced the with regular one without the cut off lever but still does the same. I think the air pressure in the tank may be the issue as you mentioned. I will have them check that. I really appreciate your input. thank you.

@@egyahechie3171 Using a regular pressure switch without the lever on the side, the pump should start when the pressure drops to 40 no matter what. I am guessing you have a bad start capacitor and the overload in the motor is tripping on start up. What do you have to do to get the pump started again?

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank you so much for your input. After troubleshooting, we found out that a stone was blocking the check valve causing water to gush back to the well and turning the pump off. After removing the stone the cut-in and cut-off works fine @ 40/60 psi. thank you so much and I appreciate your quick response.

The two most common residential size valves are the CSV125 and the CSV1A that sell for $69.00 and $179.00 respectively. You can get them at Cyclestopvalves.com.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 I already own (not installed yet) a pressure regulator to control the incoming water pressure to my house. Is this the same thing?

@@armandomarin-arias4021 No! A pressure regulator will burn up a pump and a Cycle Stop Valve cannot regulate pressure from a city supply. If you have a well pump or booster pump, you need a Cycle Stop Valve. If you have high pressure coming from a city water meter, you need a pressure regulating valve.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank you very much for your info. I will be looking into this after the holiday invoices. For what you inform me I think I am in need of one of those valves. Will be getting in touch soon. In the meanwhile, Thanks again.

The CSV will raise pressure to both lines. You must have a blockage or something to have different pressures on the same system.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 So the 50 psi the csv pushes should be enough correct.... Guess I'll have to check for blockage🤦🏻‍♂️

@@CountrySideLoony Yeah you should have 50 PSI everywhere, except after a blockage.

Sounds like you need both a large storage tank to provide a reservoir AND a smaller pressure tank to provide for good delivery volume when required.

Yes, the 4.5 gallon tank can supply about 1 gallon of water before the pump comes on to feed icemakers and wash a toothbrush. But any demand larger than that will trigger the pump to start and the CSV will supply water as needed for as long as needed. Then when all faucets are turned off, the CSV filling the tank at 1 GPM starts a mechanical timer that keeps the pump on for another 30 seconds or a minute to make sure everyone in the house is finished with the water before the pump goes off. The size of the tank is not important. What is important is that the pump stays on until everyone is finished using water, and that is what the CSV does. A large tank would only benefit in that you could flush a toilet 4-5 times before the pump comes on. But that benefit is outweighed by having to wait for the big tank to empty while shower pressure is decreasing for 4-5 minutes before seeing the strong constant pressure from the CSV.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 I do see the benefit of the constant pressure, only that it may mean more pump cycles than with just using the large pressure tank.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank you for your response. I’m am installing a well pump for a small 1000 square ft home. For a situation like this, with few people and fewer water needs, I am thinking that a large pressure tank will result in less pump cycles than using the csv. My reasoning is that most of the water use will be intermittent. A toilet is flushed and the sink is used to wash hands. Then a few minutes later, a few dishes rinsed and glass filled for drinking. A little later A pot is filled with water for cooking. Thena few minutes later Another bucket of water filled for cleaning. Etc. provided each use is a gallon or just over, and the uses are spaced out by several minutes the CSV with a small tank would cause the pump to cycle on each time. While with my large 86 gallon pressure tank, (holding maybe 20 gallons for use) all these uses might have been handled with just one pump cycle. Am I thinking right?

@@paulbach Nope. You will be surprised. The system with a CSV and a 4.5 gallon tank will cycle the same or less than using a 20 gallon size tank without the CSV. We have a chart made by a customer many years ago in our PK1A spec page. Won't let me give you a link here, sorry. But there is no comparison to the strong constant pressure, and the larger tank makes pressure worse.

@@paulbach Sure. Big tank maybe one or two cycles. But small tank and CSV maybe 4-5 cycles. Not big enough difference to justify the expense and problems associated with the large tank. Extra cost, space, and heat are needed for a big tank. Then a big tank causes water pressure to always be decreasing as water is being used, and stays at the low end of the 40/60 switch for a long time. With a CSV and the small tank, strong constant pressure happens instantly after the first gallon or two is used, and you get the benefits of a mechanical soft stop. (no water hammer) This has been discussed in ad nauseum for over 30 years. The fact that we are still successful at this after 30 years should tell you something. You will notice we recommend a 10 gallon size tank when there are many uses and/or users in the house. Where you would get 20 gallons draw from an 80 gallon size tank, the 2.5 gallons drawn from a 10 gallon tank is not its main purpose. Sure the 2.5 gallons will flush a toilet or fill the ice maker all week without the pump cycling. But rarely is a toilet flushed only once, and rarely do people wait a few minute in between someone else having used water. When people in a house are up and getting ready for work/school water will be used every minute or so, somewhere in the house, until everyone is out the door or settled down. Same thing in the evening. So, the 2.5 gallons in the 10 gallon tank is filled at 1 GPM with the CSV and becomes a mechanical timer. The CSV doesn't let the tank even start filling until the toilet is finally full, then with the CSV set at 50 on a 40/60 switch the tank will take about 1.5 minutes to fill to 60 PSI so the switch can shut off the pump. During this minute and a half of pump run time, if anyone, anywhere in the house uses any water, the 1.5 minute timer starts again. So, if you stand there and flush a toilet 1000 times in a row, the pump only cycles once. When everyone in the house is up and using water the pump may run continuously for an hour or two, instead of cycling 7-8 times as it would with just a large tank. Knowing that the CSV is better for the pump/motor/tank/switch/check valve/space, cost, everything, is one thing, but the strong constant pressure for nearly every water use is so much better than the 40 to 60 over and over that people tell me they no longer even need soap in the shower. 🙂

Just a regular 40/60 pressure switch. Any pressure switch set at just about any pressure will work.

Yes a CSV will work with that. A 4.4 gallon size tank is the normal one we use with a CSV, but is way too small a tank without a CSV. Just put in a CSV1A before the pressure tank. It will eliminate the cycling and give you strong constant pressure in the showers.

So your video shows a 40/60 switch and running around 50psi using CVS. Can i use my existing 30/50 switch and run at say 40psi? I dont know the actual HP of my motor off hand but lets assume its 1/2-3/4 HP. I am also using a shallow sand point well.

Yes 3/50 is more common with a jet pump as it won't usually do 40/60. You can set the CSV1A anywhere from 15 to 150 PSI.

A CSV with a small pressure tank actually works better with low producing wells than a system with a large pressure tank. A large pressure tank is just an additional demand for a weak producing well to supply. If the well is really weak, a cistern storage tank with a booster pump and a CSV is best.

right

Yep the whole thing is counter intuitive. Everybody thinks restricting the output of a pump will make it work harder, when just the opposite is true. If the amps go up when the pump is restricted the thrust bearing in the motor is bad, which is how motor thrust bearings are checked. If the amps don't go down at all, you just have a bad designed pump, which there are a few of those like a 10 GPM Pentair pump. But the amps will reduce by 20-30% in most pumps, and the really good ones like a Grundfos the amps will drop by 50-60 %. Watch the video titled Pump Curves Technical Video if you want to see how the power drops off as the pump is restricted. Even though it is a normal characteristic of pumps, most people, even some pump engineers don't understand it.

Thanks for the response back. I really don't know what pumps are these brand/style wise, they were installed prior purchase of property. All I know is that they are submersible pumps in wells. It used to be a plant nursery (reason for the high water demand with three deep wells) so I assumed they used good stuff. I only use one well for irrigation (big well) and it does cycle when is running so I do want to extend the life. I've researched the prices on those pumps plus labor and is not cheap so a $400 investment makes all kinds of sense if it works. Thanks again.

Wouldn't still be here selling Cycle Stop Valves after 25 years if they didn't work. But I wish I had a nickle for every time I heard that statement. Nearly all pumps will have reduced amps when the flow is reduced. And there are NO pumps that will have an increase in amps when the flow is restricted. May not even be $400. If you already have a pressure tank and pressure switch, adding a CSV could be $63 or $174. But we match the CSV to the size of the pump, so will need a little info on the pump. If you do not have the pump model number, we can back into what we need with horsepower and GPM, even if you have to do a bucket test to figure that out. I am an old driller and pump installer, so I can help figure the size of pump if needed.

According to the previous owner, the big well that I use for irrigation is 300 ft deep and produces 60GPM thats all he knows. That is why im thinking the CSV2W will be a better fit. It irrigates in sections but at any given time up to 8 sprinkler heads could be running. Anyway I may try the smaller units (CSV125) on one of the small wells just to test it and then get the irrigation CSV which is $400 but if its going to triple the life of that pump, is well worth the money.

Jose M Solis Just because the well will make 60 gpm doesn't mean you have a 60 gpm pump. Measure how much come out of 1 sprinkler in a minute and multiply times 8. I'm guessing more like 25 gpm. Then don't use the CSV125 if your not sure how much pressure the pump can make.

Even with a small tank, CSV or not, there is no hesitation of flow on pump start. However, with a little too much air charge in any size tank there will be a hesitation of flow on pump start, as the tank diaphragm hits the bottom slightly before the pump is started. This means the tank runs out of water just before the pump starts. You could also have a hesitation of flow on pump start if you have an SQ pump, which takes 5 seconds to get up to speed. But even the problem of a slow start from an SQ pump can be solved by just decreasing the air charge in the tank a little more than usual. In this way the tank diaphragm doesn't hit the bottom and the tank is still supplying water until the pump is up to speed. When there is a lot of demand at less than 1 GPM, a larger pressure tank is recommended with a CSV. The CSV only supplies demands greater than 1 GPM , so a larger tank is needed to supply long term demands of less than 1 GPM. There are reasons to need a larger pressure tank with a CSV, but yours should not have been one of them. Sounds like you just had too much air in the pressure tank?

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks for the reply, you definitely know what you are talking about. I tried lowering the pressure slightly, but it did not the solve the problem. Could be a problem with the pressure tank. How about a pressure switch with no low limit. I know my well will not run out of water.

@@jashby9736 Yeah those low pressure cut off switches with the little lever on the side are a nuisance. Getting rid of that would probably have solved your problem alone. But even those should not trip out if you have less air pressure in the tank than the pressure that the pump kicks on.

@@jashby9736 Thanks for posting some truth to that Crazy Guy on the other RU-vid channel. I noticed he said everything is debatable. Lol! Facts as I have presented them and are certified on pump curves are not debatable. His "opinions" are also not debatable, as they are factually incorrect. He will probably delete your post as he has done others that speak the truth to his lies. Thanks again!

@@cyclestopvalves8380 He is definitely full of you know what. Anyone with no knowledge can make themselves out to be an expert if they are talking to uninformed people. You're welcome.

We sell a lot of CSV specifically to make on demand heaters work properly. Usually the 40 to 60 swing in pressure using the old pressure switch method will vary the flow in the shower head. At 40 the shower flow is low and the instant heater goes off. At 60 the shower flow is high and the instant heater comes on again. Some people call this a cold water sandwich. With a CSV holding a constant 50 PSI as long as you are in the shower an instant heater will stay on as it should and give you all the hot water you want.

I don't have the cold water sandwich situation although I'm familiar with it from when I had such in the late 80's... I had the on-demand installed 2 years ago and it has worked fine except for a drop in pressure for approx 15 seconds during a long shower before it comes back strong (and still hot). This only started in early December (4 months ago). A well service is coming out this afternoon. I'll see what he says and if he has ever heard of a cycle stop valve. I live in the boondocks and a lot of the service folks up here don't know about new developments in their trades because they simply haven't encountered anything since they first learned.

NO not just a pressure regulating valve. Put a regular pressure regulator valve before the pressure tank and pressure switch like a CSV and you will burn your pump up in 5 minutes. CSV works sort of like a pressure regulator, but will never let your pump get hot like a PRV will do.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Don't worry, I worked on industrial fluid flow systems for a living. your valve description is too vague. I like to know what it's doing and how. My home system has, coming from the well, a check valve in case the pump mounted one gets stuck, gauge, throttling valve, gauge, pressure switch, then tank. Downstream from that is a PRV.

@@bobbean4702 The CSV is just a valve. It opens and closes to maintain a set downstream pressure. It just can't close to less than 1 GPM. So when you are no longer using any water, the 1 GPM leaking through the CSV has no place to go except the pressure tank. The pressure tank then fills and the pressure switch shuts off the pump. This way you can have a constant 50 PSI while using a 40/60 switch. without the pump cycling on and off. With your pressure regulator after the pressure tank, you would need a 50/70 switch. Then your pump will be cycling on and off over and over between 50 and 70 while the pressure regulator is giving you 50 PSI to the house. You are getting 50 PSI constant, but cycling the pump to death in the meantime.

It is just a simple valve that opens and closes according to pressure. When the spring is set to 50 PSI, the spring pushes the valve open when there is less than 50 PSI. When the diaphragm on the end of the spring sees 51 PSI it pushes the valve closed. So the CSV makes the pump supply just the right amount of water by opening or closing as much as needed to maintain 50 PSI. With a 20 GPM pump the CSV will vary the flow from 1 GPM to 20 GPM matching the amount being used by maintaining 50 PSI constant. It just valves back the pump and makes it think it is in a deeper well when only small amount of water are needed. The CSV just cannot close to less than 1 GPM, because your pump needs to flow at least 1 GPM to stay cool. When you are no longer using any water the 1 GPM "leaking" through the closed CSV has no place to go except the tank, and the tank is filled to 60 PSI where the pressure switch shuts off the pump. The pump stays at full speed all the time, but the amps vary according to how much water you are using. This is just how pumps work normally, and anyone selling a VFD or variable speed drive just doesn't know pumps drop in amps naturally when simply restricted with a valve. VFD's are nothing but a scam. The natural counter intuitive properties of pumps confuses people. They fall for the VFD hype, pay way more needed, and are out of water way more often than they should be. A simple Cycle Stop Valve does a better job than a VFD, cost much less, and makes pumps last much longer, which is why you don't see the pump companies pushing them like they do those highly profitable and short lived VFD's.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 cool, thanks for the explanation.

Correct. If water comes out the air valve on a pressure tank the diaphragm or bladder is torn.

The CSV1A by itself is $179 including freight. The PK1A kit is $395 and has a new pressure tank, switch, gauge, relief valve, and everything you need to replace the pressure tank. You can get a diagram and order it here. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/pk1a-pside-kick

can you take a picture of the items that will get .I like to see what I get

can I change 50psi to 70psi

@@alanmcdowell977 You can see a picture at the link I posted. 50/70 is not a problem, you can order the PK1A set up that way. I would switch from the 4.5 gallon tank to the 10 gallon tank when going higher pressure as at higher pressure tanks hold less water.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Preset scv are $69.00

Way better than a VFD. The CSV varies the flow rate and lowers the amp draw while giving the same strong constant pressure as a VFD. But it is just a simple, inexpensive, long lasting, mechanical valve. The CSV cost thousands of dollars less and makes the pump last decades longer than a VFD or a big pressure tank. Gee, I wonder why some pump companies will say anything to keep you from trying a CSV? Lol!

The pump only runs when you are using water. Open a hose, the pump comes on and runs. Turn off the hose, the pump shuts off. Cycling the pump on/off actually uses more energy because it takes 6 to 9 times the running amps to start the pump. Lots of car washes using Cycle Stop Valves. Gives better pressure and makes the pumps last longer.

okay where to buy the CSV send to philippines. do you have online shop for CSV?

my pump is 1hp Self-priming Jet Pump pressure tank 100 liters.

You can find our on line store here. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/csv1a But you might need to call us so we can figure freight. Thanks

Yes, it might take 9 times more amps to start, but it doesn't take very long to start, so the power used isn't very much. I don't think you'll save electricity.

Look at your pressure gauge while you are experiencing low pressure. If the gauge is going from 50 to 70, and 70 to 50 over and over, a CSV will hold a constant 60 PSI, which believe it or not is much stronger shower pressure than the average 60 you get when cycling between 50 and 70. But if the gauge just stays low like 30, 40, PSI you just don't have a large enough pump to supply as many taps as you want to run. If the pump is cycling, a CSV1A would solve the problem and give you better pressure.

Cycle Stop Valves My gage does exactly that, cycles repeatedly. Not to be a cheep skate, would the CSV125-1 60psi solve my problem?

Yes the CSV12560-1 will work with that pump. And it maybe the one you need anyway as it is really designed to install in the well for systems that have a water line teed off the main before it comes into the house and to the pressure tank. But you can also install it close to the tank. If you have sand, iron, or sulfur in the water the CSV1A is a better choice. The CSV125 is also not adjustable, so you can't turn it down if that is needed. Also is there a chance you have a filter clogged up, as 50/70 should still be good pressure, just fluctuating.

Cycle Stop Valves I have a regenerative water softener, high iron. I have read reviews with similar situations, all positive results with the 12560-1. Will it matter where in line between pump and tank I install it?

Looking at the consumption chart on your Web page, it says I should have a 12-14 GPM pump. I just replaced a failed 12 with a 10. The fella at Ferguson said the 10 would be more than sufficient. I'm a little concerned that a CSV would even benefit my system. Whenever a higher usage tap is running, shower or washing machine, pressure to other taps is cut in half. I have 2.5 baths, and 7 faucets, washer and dishwasher, two hose bibs.

There are CSV's small and large. They work on pumps from 1/3HP to 500HP.

The animations seen here needs Flash. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/animations Even though it is the most modern pump control on the market, Cycle Stop Valves have been around for 25 years. So much of the stuff on our web page uses older software.

thanks man, I thought it was some kind of a simulation program where you can hookup things together and do a virtual test before you actually do it in real life.

It sort of is. There are several animations to try and duplicate any type of water system you may have. And with this program you can turn on sprinklers, showers, toilets, etc., and see how the CSV controls the system. But I made the above video using this program for those who can't get the Flash software to work.

Yep. It is just that simple. A lot of people do not realize throttling a pump with a valve will make the amps drop the same as when varying the speed with a complicated, expensive, and troublesome VFD.

Water is not compressible. So you need a pressure tank with 75% air, so you have something that is compressible. Without a little tank, there would only be two drops come out before the pressure drops from 60 to 40 and the pressure switch starts the pump. Because of the air in the little tank, it will express about 1 gallon of water before the pump comes on. So the 1 gallon in the tank will let the ice maker fill or you can wash your hands before the pump comes on. Otherwise it would come on every time your faucet leaks a couple drops. Those so called tankless controls all have this problem.

Yes the CSV makes shower pressure better by holding a constant pressure. It will also make instant water heaters stay on when the old cycling on and off causes water heaters to go on and off as the flow changes. You can get one here. cyclestopvalves.com/

One minute of run time is mandatory, two minutes is better, and running continuously while using water is best. Pumps are made to run 24/7/365. Any cycling on and off shortens the life of the pump/motor.

You have drank the Koolaid or fallen for the VFD hype. If you will fall for that crap about VFD's then I also have a bridge in Arizona and a gold mine in Houston to sell you. Lol! You should watch some technical videos like this one. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3GABhLLtjas.html It could keep you from making the same mistake as thousands of other gullible people who fell for the VFD hype.

Because the only problem with the old pressure tank only method is the numerous on/off cycles of the pump. Adding a simple Cycle Stop Valve solves that problem and makes the old pressure tank method much more dependable, long lasting, and deliver much stronger constant pressure to the house.

@Cycle Stop Valves But if you run water for any time longer than a few minutes that would force the pump to run longer.... A pump isn't a light bulb, leaving it on continuously isn't a benefit like with a simple electric filament. A pump is a machine. Long runtime is worse for the pump regardless of how many times it's turned on or off. This is why tractors have an hour keeper on them. The runtime is what decreases it's value and indicates wear and needed upkeep or repairs. This is why we have an odometer in our cars and not an on/off counter. The odometer is a better reading of actual runtime because runtime is the issue, not on/off cycles...... I mean, sure, it seems the CSV would help regulate flow in a system with proper expansion tank(s) set up, but it seems pretty unnecessary when you have those tank(s) in place and properly sized. Idk, just seems like an extra breakable part in a system that already has enough of them.

@@elib9002 Pumps are made to run continuously 24/7/365. says so right on the side of the motor. Pumps are completely frictionless when up and running and will run forever without any wear. I have a pump feeding a stock tank that hasn't shut off since it was installed in 1999. It is the cycling on and off that destroys pumps. I think you will find that if you start a tractor a 100 times a day it will not last very many hours either. The wear on a motor happens on start up before the oil is circulating. Truck drivers know to keep their engines running if they want their truck to last. Starting is bad on most all equipment. The pump and bladder in a tank are the "breakable" parts of the system, and the tank breaks from the bladder going up and down too many times from the pump cycling way more than it should. You cannot install enough pressure tanks to do what a Cycle Stop Valve does. Just like a light bulb, a pump will last longer if it is never turned off. The Cycle Stop Valve is a simple and robust piece of equipment that is not going to fail, and will keep the tank, pump, and everything else in a pump system from failing prematurely.

@Cycle Stop Valves Yah...... that's outright false. I just checked mine and there is no such label exists...... And there is no such thing as frictionless.

@@elib9002 Lol! On the motor label it says "Duty Cont" for continuous. Also look up the Kingsbury thrust bearing for proof of frictionless. Your being confrontational. This is your last chance to learn anything from me as I will delete this unless you start asking nicely. Lot of hater's for no reason out there, and you sound like one? I am too old to put up with any more crap! Have a nice day.

Lol! What is not true? That is exactly how pumps work. Without a CSV the pump system cycles on and off and the pressure goes up and down until the pump is destroyed. With a CSV the pump runs continuously while using water, the pressure stays strong and constant, and the pump is not cycling itself to death and will last several times longer than normal.

It is just a simple valve that closes or modulates flow at a set pressure. Controls the flow by maintaining a constant pressure. Pressure decreases, valve opens. Pressure increases, valve closes. Guess I need to make a video showing a valve opening and closing. Sorry! But for such a simple and useful valve it has a complicated explanation.

Hi Derek You are just thinking about it too hard. Lol. There is no electric to the CSV (just plumbed). It doesn't vary the speed of the pump. The CSV is just a simple spring operated valve that "constricts or reduces the flow" just as you describe. However, working against a bigger resistance doesn't slow the pump down. Quite to the contrary the motor actually speeds up as more restriction means reduced flow rate and reduced load, not increased load as you might think. The same way as putting your hand over the suction of a vacuum cleaner or the discharge of a blow dryer makes the motor sound like it is speeding up, because it is. The "load" is in the volume of air or water that is being pumped, restricting the flow decreases the motor load, which is just the opposite of what most people think. The amps naturally decrease when a single speed pump is restricted, almost exactly the same as when reducing the motor RPM with a complicated and expensive variable speed drive (VFD's). It is not me who has you confused, it is the ones trying to sell VFD's. They want you to think that is the only way to reduce amps from a pump/motor. They don't want you to know that amps reduce naturally with flow, not RPM, and that is a natural, albeit counter intuitive property of any pump with a centrifugal impeller. The CSV is a simple valve that is easy to understand. What is hard to understand is how restricting a pumps flow with a valve can have the same effect on amps as reducing the RPM. See this video for further explanation. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3GABhLLtjas.html

Thanks. The paragraph above is the explanation that was missing from the video. Very interesting.

Back pressure is good for the pump, cannot be any more than your pump can make, and the CSV itself has a limit. I only know of one idiot who blew off the incoming pipe, he just posted it on Amazon, which we do not do business with, so they keep that post up top. Lol. If your pump lasted 23 years without a CSV, it would last 40-50 years with one. We have only done this about a million times over the last 30 years. So, look at your pump curve, figure out how little back pressure it can build, get over your concern, and start enjoying strong constant pressure instead of seeing that pressure go up and down over and over and over.

The Cycle Stop Valve or CSV was designed to replace Variable Speed Pumps or VSP's or VFD's, etc, etc. Variable speed pumps are not new. I was doing them back in the 80's. They have been around since 1964. However, VFD's have been "upgraded" or "de-bugged" every 18 months or so since VFD time began. They told me in the 80's that the newest model was going to solve all the problems of the last model, and they are still saying that today. They have made a LOT of improvements over the years, but laws of physics will never let them solve all the problems that happen when you vary the speed of a pump. VFD's are a good thing however, in the fact that they will deliver water at a constant pressure and allow the use of a very small pressure tank the same way a CSV does. It is just that when you have two ways to accomplish the same task, the simplest way is always the best way. A simple little valve (CSV) with only one moving part is going to cost much less and last much longer than any computerized VFD with thousands of electrical components. Plus using a CSV is much easier on the pump/motor than the pulsing power supplied and resonance frequencies created by a VFD. Pump manufacturers are in the business of making money selling pumps and VFD's. Why on earth would they even mention or condone a product that is disruptive to their industry because is cost very little and makes pumps last much longer than designed? Constant pressure is an excellent idea. And a CSV is a much better way to get it than a VFD.

Thank you. Yeah so simple it is scary. Lol! We tried to see these to all the pump companies back in the early 90's. Took us several years to find out they blacklisted the CSV. Pump companies said the CSV is a disruptive product as it makes pumps last longer and use smaller tanks. Wow! Found something that makes pumps work better and last longer and the pump companies are doing everything in their power to discredit us and come up with variable speed pumps or Masscontrol flow switch controllers that don't make pumps last forever like a CSV does. Notice you don't hear from any of our customers from 20-30 years ago? The CSV made their pump systems work so well and last so long they forget they even have a pump system. When water comes out the faucet everytime you open it, you will never have to think about your pump system again.

That would be nice. I will work on that when I have time. Thanks!

How many GPM's do you have running for 7-12 minutes to pump the well dry? Even a well that only makes 1 GPM can still give you 1440 gallons every day. You need a Cycle Sensor for the well pump to protect it from running dry, and it will be your timer as it is built into the Cycle Sensor. You can use a Cycle Sensor on the cistern pump as well, so it shuts off if the cistern is run dry. Because of the price many people are using the 1HP, 33 GPM, Hallmark pumps in cisterns. I prefer the 230V version. Used in combination with our PK1A kit you can have all the water you want at a strong constant pressure. See this link. forum.cyclestopvalves.com/index.php?topic=1841.0

Lol! Even 1-2 minutes of run time isn't enough. That is just the minimum. With a CSV the pump will run for as long as you are using water, then 1 more minute to fill the tank. You don't have to worry about "cycle duty" on a pump when it has a Cycle Stop Valve. Although you can use any size pressure tank you want with a CSV, even with the small tank there really is no way, as in no amount of flow for any length of time that will make the pump cycle repeatedly, which is what destroys most pumps. Cycle Stop Valves make pumps last many times longer than normal, not the other way around.

NO that will not work. You would have really high pressure for an hour or so until the pump melted down.

Wow! If you are really "interested in new ways to do things", maybe you should ask questions instead of being a "condescending prick" to someone who could help you. Sorry, but you started it. Now, do you want to learn something about pumps and controls or not? If so, you could learn a lot from our web page and videos because for the CSV to be such a simple valve it has a complicated explanation, mostly because it is so simple. Over the last half century I have built and installed many thousands of pumps made by all those companies you mentioned. I thought I was good friends with their engineers and salespeople as we had "mostly" good relations for decades. They were my first customers in 1993 and I spent several days with these engineers around the test pits at the manufacturers facilities testing the very first Cycle Stop Valves. Even with 25 years previous experience in the pump and well business, I had not idea how CSV's really worked. I could only put them on pumps and show them the amp drop, cooler running motors, precise pressure control, and of course complete lack of cycling. These engineers explained to me how amps drop naturally when a centrifugal pump is restricted, back pressure from restriction doesn't hurt the pump or motor, motors run cooler at reduced amps, and lack of cycling would make pumps last much longer than normal. But even before I left the manufactures plant some would start treating me differently, not telling me things. For months, even years I called these engineers to see if they had decided anything from all the testing. I kept getting the run around and put off. In the meantime I was making and selling Cycle Stop Valves to everyone who had a pump system problem. I didn't get to test them on the run of the mill 1/2HP, house pump systems. I only got to sell CSV's on strange systems where they had already tried huge pressure tanks, various pump control valves, tankless gadgets, and even Variable Frequency Drives or VFD's, and were still destroying pumps often. Which BTW I was big into VFD's back then which is how I found out about valves, as they were being used as a backup for the undependable VFD systems. Anyway, we have tested Cycle Stop Valves on the toughest to control systems with complete success since 1993. I even have a couple of customers still alive from that long ago with systems we installed in 1994 still working daily. What I don't have is an affidavit from ANY pump company showing the CSV makes pumps last longer. What I do have is the word of several engineers after they retired, as they were never allowed to talk freely to me while in the employment of one of those companies. It seems a short while after I left the test facilities of one of those companies you mentioned back in 1994 they called a company meeting. The CEO of the company said they had "Tested Cycle Stop Valves, and they make pumps last much longer. This company makes pumps and anyone who mentions a Cycle Stop Valve will be terminated immediately." Again, wow! I always thought if you made a better mouse trap, people would beat a path to your door. I never realized if you made a mouse trap so well it could make mice extinct, the mouse trap industry would do everything in their power to shut you down. But there is a lot of money in mouse traps as well as pumps. That is when I learned the industry caters to planned obsolescence, and even hides, buys out and shelves, or destroys what they call a "disruptive product". These were all new words to me at the time. I have spent the last 30 something years figuring out what they mean and how the CSV does what it does. If you believe those big companies would tell you the best way to make pumps last a long time, you need to start studying the same things as well. I have also lost any patience over all these years with people who are judgmental about things they do not understand. You could learn a lot if you would just call me like a normal person and ask instead of pissing me off accusing me of selling snake oil and getting away with it for 30 years. Way back then I had no idea how they worked, like you. I understand it is such a simple valve and good concept that it is hard to believe. I have even offered to pay pump installers or plumbers if they can show proof of any kind of pump failure caused by a CSV or if any warranty has been denied because of its use. So, let me put it back on you. I will pay you $1,000.00 if you can show proof that a CSV has damaged or even failed to extend the life of any pump. Nobody can show proof of a single failure and some are still running after 30+ years so far. That is why pump companies will not endorse the CSV in any way and you would be wise to educate yourself in real world capitalism. Not that I am against it, but you have to protect yourself from the flashy adds that big companies buy with your money.

Usually yes. It is rare for a house pump to be so oversized that it builds more than 200 PSI on the inlet. But it is possible. Knowing the horsepower or amperage drawn and checking to see how many gallons a minute you can catch in a bucket will tell us what size pump you have. Or, you can just put a gauge and a ball valve on the pump and test for pressure.

@@cyclestopvalves8380I see, thanks for the reply.

An 80 gallon tank is expensive, takes up a lot of room and heat, and only holds 20 gallons of water. A pump will cycle more with the 80 gallon tank than with a CSV and a 4.5 gallon tank. The old style 80 gallon tank system cycles on/off for every 20 gallons used. The CSV and 4.5 gallon tank only cycles once for each use of water, no matter how long the water is used. So yes the CSV cycles more for small uses of water, but doesn't cycle at all for longer uses of water. Which means overall it cycles less with the CSV than with the old pressure tank method of cycling for every 20 gallons used. Not to mention the constant 50 PSI pressure from the CSV is much stronger house pressure than when continually cycling between 40 and 60. Plus, everything from the pump to the pressure tank is destroyed from cycling on and off, and the CSV makes everything last much longer.

Good explanation in the video and reading this comment even explained it more!!! Getting mines asap!

Several things. If the system had a CSV to start with, the pump would not have cycled on/off enough to destroy the tank bladder. But yes if you have a water logged tank, the CSV will still keep the pump running while a toilet is filling or a shower is running, compared to clicking on and off rapidly several hundred times as it would without a CSV. Delays the need to replace the tank, but doesn't eliminate it. A good tank is needed, just not a large one. The CSV fills the tank at 1 GPM above its set point. So, no matter the size tank we try to set the CSV/pressure switch to get a minute of run time. This can be done with as small as a 4.5 gallon size tank that only holds 1 gallon of water. The CSV filling the tank at 1 GPM makes the tank more of a mechanical timer than a water storage vessel. The 1 minute of run time (which with the CSV only happens after you stop using water) is to make sure you are finished using water before the pump shuts off. As long as you are using more than 1 GPM the CSV just keeps the pump running continuously, water goes right past the tank, and the size of the tank is a moot point.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 !.) With a 35 gallon tank how close can I set start and stop pressures to ensure enough run time yet avoid annoying pressure swing? 2.) I have three hydrants before the pressure tank so I assume the CSV would have to be installed at the well head which is about 100 ft from the house. 3.) I don't know the specs on my submersible pump, is it safe to assume that I can just install the CSV with no worries?

@@shofar-man 1.) With a 35 gallon tank how close can I set start and stop pressures to ensure enough run time yet avoid annoying pressure swing? With a 40/60 switch a 35 gallon tank holds about 8 gallons of water. The CSV fills the tank at 1 GPM. You can get two minutes of run time with a 5 PSI bandwidth, like on at 55 and off at 60. Setting the CSV at 55 will give you two minutes of run time. However, you will also only get 2 gallons out of the tank before the pump starts, which is basically the same as using a 10 gallon size tank with a full 40/60 switch setting. The 55/60 setting would keep the pressure more constant than the 40/60 setting. But it is only for the first 2 gallons used from the tank, as then the pump starts and the CSV gives perfect constant pressure for as long as the faucet/shower is on. The first 2 gallons is used up so quickly you won't notice the quick pressure drop to 40 before the pump starts. So, larger tanks are not necessary. BTW, finding a pressure switch that will do less than 17-20 PSI between on and off isn't easy either. 2.) I have three hydrants before the pressure tank so I assume the CSV would have to be installed at the well head which is about 100 ft from the house. The CSV would at least need to go before the first hydrant. It can go in the line or the CSV125 is made to be installed in the well, so it is before everything. 3.) I don't know the specs on my submersible pump, is it safe to assume that I can just install the CSV with no worries? No. Especially with the CSV125 as it can only take a max of 150 PSI back pressure. If you can't find any info on the pump, and amp check will tell you the Horsepower, and a bucket test will tell you the GPM rate and gives a clue to the depth of water. From these things I can back into which pump you have and find a curve. You can also use a pressure gauge before a ball valve and close the ball valve long enough to get a max pressure reading, which is really all we need to know if the CSV will work. Most pump systems are fine with a CSV. However, occasionally we run into a pump someone incorrectly installed that was made for for a 800'-1000' deep well, and the well water level is only 10'. That causes more back pressure than a CSV can handle, and is why you can't just put a CSV on without knowing something about the pump. I can help you with the amp and bucket test if you like? 806-885-4445

YES THEY DO! They hate it that the Cycle Stop Valve makes pumps last several times longer than their planned obsolescence date. So they will tell you anything they can to keep you from using a CSV, including saying that it will void the warranty. BUT they will not put that in writing. They know if they put that in writing I would own their pump company. Because not only can they not disallow a warranty for using a CSV, they have never seen a pump damaged in anyway in all these 25 years the CSV has been in existence. Restricting the flow from the pump reduces the amp draw and makes the motor run cooler. Plus restricting the flow is how the CSV keeps the pump from cycling itself to death, which is why pumps using a CSV last many times longer than those without a CSV.

NO, amperage goes down not up when the pump flow is restricted. And the contacts on the pressure switch do not wear out, because the pump is not cycling. You are on the right youtube page to learn something new today. Just see the video about pump curves and you will learn that restricting the flow from a pump is a good thing. The amps are reduced, the motor runs cooler, and the extra run time is what happens when the cycling is eliminated, which makes the pump and everything else last much longer. But don't feel bad. I thought the same thing 30 years ago. Very few people really understand how pumps work, but everybody thinks they do.

Very Interesting. I threw everything I had at it and you bounced right back. I like that. Maybe ,I can, learn something new. I'm never closed minded about something totally new. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt until I actually test it for myself. Cheers I have a nice pump system right now with a 4gallon tank. If you send me a valve ,I'll make a RU-vid Video on Unpacking , Installing , and testing your valve and if it doesn't cut the mustard ,I'll send it back to you and delete the video.

I appreciate the offer, and I did have to give a bunch away to get people to try them 25 years or so ago. Have you seen any of the "Reviews" on our home page at this link? www.cyclestopvalves.com/

There is nothing to prove. With centrifugal pumps amperage drops when restricted (less flow and more pump head pressure). With positive displacement pumps, which are very rarely used in pressure systems, amperage goes up when restricted. The video is really instructive and this solution solves the biggest drawback of traditional presostatic systems, which is cycling and variable tap pressure. I understand we are talking of a pressure reducing valve, with constant output pressure. As far as I know this type of valves introduce big pressure losses, very noticeable at higher flows. If this were the case, pump efficiency would be affected, and power consumption too.

The only time you even see friction loss with a CSV is when trying to use the max flow the pump can produce. Anytime you are using less than max pump flow, the CSV is putting extra "friction loss" on the pump to make it pump less water. And as this video shows, adding friction loss to a pump pushes it to the left of its curve, and actually makes it use less energy, not more. In most of these applications the pump is never used at max flow, so friction loss is a moot point. But we have done systems where occasionally the pump is used at max flow, and it is easy to disable the CSV, let it go wide open, and that way it doesn't have any friction lose to speak of.

On and off at the same pressure is not possible. On at 40 and off at 60 gives you an average of 50. The narrower you set the on and off pressures the faster the pump cycles on and off.

Wow! Sounds like a mess. A 55 gallon size pressure tank only holds 12 gallons of water. It is just a pressure tank, not a storage tank. You should be able to get all the pressure you need from the well pump, and not need a booster pump and all the other stuff. The 55 gallon pressure tank is much larger than needed with a CSV, but will work fine. Just turn up the pressure switch on the well pump to 60/80, and set a CSV1A for 70 PSI strong constant pressure to the house. Then you will not need the extra boost pump, 86 gallon tank, pressure reducing valve, etc. The CSV system will work much better. last much longer, and deliver stronger pressure to the house.

Thanks for the reply. The well pump and old tank combo serve two homes, with the tank likely not having much capacity after many, many years, and piping so old that to mess with it would likely require a complete re-do. Regularly, the well pump combo delivered no more than a trickle. Meanwhile, in the pneumatic tank (air over water), the capacity is actually closer to 50/50, providing sufficient storage draw for the booster pump, as the well pump, again, has low flow, low pressure. So, getting back to the booster pump and bladder tank, these have totally corrected a decades-long problem of having little to no water after short periods of use. One problem that remains though is correcting pressure ranging (40-70) still present, since booster pump only turns on once pressure sufficiently drops. So, back to original question, would a CSV work between the booster pump and bladder tank to keep pressure more steady, or is it a problem there is no pressure switch downstream of the booster pump?

@@OccamsRazor71 What kind of booster pump do you have?

@@OccamsRazor71 If you are getting more than 25% water from a pressure tank, something is wrong with the tank. Your bandaid booster pump may have helped the pressure, but shouldn't be needed if the well pump is set up correctly. But yes the CSV will solve the cycling problem with the booster pump. But yes the pressure switch has to be after the CSV. Again, what kind of booster pump do you have?

It’s a Simer 407SS.

The CSV can never close quite enough to cause cavitation. Most centrifugal pumps can handle a much wider range of flow than some people might think. Really as long as there is enough flow to keep the pump cool, cavitation is not an issue. Restricting the inlet line to the pump would cause cavitation, restricting the discharge of a pump only increases the head pressure, reduces the work the motor has to do, and even makes the motor run cooler.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Very interesting. I need to check my pump spec sheet and now might consider using a CSV. Does it operate under a similar principal to pump control Cla-Val or Bermad? I tried researching the innards on how the CSV works and couldn't find much.

@@andrewbenjamin3687 There is plenty on how the CSV works. It is just so simple you didn't realize that was all of it. The CSV works on a pressure reducing principle just like many Cla-Vals, Bermads, etc. The patented difference is that the CSV can never close to less than needed to keep the pump/motor cool. The minimum bypass in the CSV is what keeps the motor/pump cool, determines the rate that fills the pressure tank, and also determines the minimum usage rate at which the pump will not cycle.