How accurate is a Zwift FTP ramp test | Ramp V's 20 min test 

Thank for the info👍 1st time attempt at this ftp stuff and completed Ramp and gonna some day soon hit 20 min test. Obviously I’m not looking far to this but will do it so I get a baseline of where I’m at. Thanks again for vid👍

The only reason to do an ftp test is to get your training zones appropriately. If you can't do a 5x5 vo2 max session at 110% of your tested ftp your ftp is not correct. If your workouts (5x5, 2x20, over unders etc.) feel too easy, bump up the watts for the workouts. If they feel too hard and yu are constantly not completing them, lower the watts. Your workouts are the most important numbers, not ftp. After a couple years of doing structured training you'll start to get an idea of whats too hard and too easy and when to adjust.

Another thing to note is that your FTP would be 95% of your best 20min power. Meaning to truly have an FTP of 311W you wouldn't just have to hold those 311W for 20min but you'd have to hold 327-328W for those 20min. As you already mentioned, the ramp test does overinflate the FTP significantly. Even if you had barely held on for the last 5min it would have "only" (still very good) resulted in an FTP of 295W. At the end of the day FTP is vanity, 1/5min power is sanity and race placement is reality.

nice video. a couple thoughts since you asked for comments: 1) you would need to do at least 327 watts for 20 min to achieve a FTP of 311 watts since you take 95% of your 20 min power to determine your FTP. Some people say it's even closer to 90%. 2) you can use your normalized power from a 60 min race to estimate your FTP which takes into account the surges in power. 3) the 5 min effort done before the 20 min test is designed to minimize anaerobic contribution in your 20 min power not necessarily contribute to overall fatigue per se.

I'm not a racer but have been a serious recreational cyclist for many years. I've done many 20 minute FTP tests in the past so am quite comfortable pacing myself over that time to get a reasonably accurate result. I have done a couple of Zwift ramp tests in recent years which tend to closely agree with my 20 minute efforts but I don't like the ramp test because it pushes you to your absolute max trying to wring out every last watt of your FTP! Just recently I bought a new Zwift Hub trainer so I thought I would test it out by having a pop at trying to beat my personal best time up Alpe de Zwift. Long story short I beat my best time by over 2 minutes for just over an hour's ride and ended up getting to within 1 watt of my currently measured FTP. What I found in essence was I had actually done an unplanned, pukka, one-hour FTP test, something I had never attempted before, and never will again. It was brutal. Whatever test you decide on, I think things definitely get more accurate the more times you do it because as you said, you have a figure to base your next effort on.

Interesting video 🤔 I think it shows that the numbers are in the ballpark but with an element of variance about them. Regardless though, I can definitely see the strength improving in your riding and am looking forward to that video showing you staying with the front group till the end of a big race 💪 🚴

My take on an ftp test is, that I don’t put that much into the numbers. At least don’t compare your numbers with others due to type of rider, calibration, accuracy of smart trainer etc. But it is a good indication of your progress. If you increase your ftp after a good training program, it shows that you are stronger of course, but it is the differential that is important not the actual number. An increase of 20 W gives a better indication than if your ftp is 280 or 295 W etc. Must say I like your channel. Very relatable. Keep it up 👍

Thanks for the review. I never used FTP for anything in my riding or exercising at home. Rather I use my threshold lactate which i can sustain for 3 hrs.

You are on the right track. Depending on your training (and some parts physiology) you are better at aerobic or at anaerobic efforts. I did have a hard time pushing the pedals at the ramp test at 120-125% FTP but find it comparably easier to just do 20 minutes at 105% FTP. But I believe I have a good aerobic system due to lots of zone 2 training. I can ride long tours of 6+ hours with long climbs quite well but I'm no good sprinter and would be a bad racer. If you race and train for it you need to have a good anaerobic power (i.e. to counter attacks). I believe you can do 20 minutes at your FTP. Maybe start with 2*10 with a short break, then up to 2*15 and so on. Train your body with zone 2 to improve lactate clearing and test at FTP to get used to the pain of longer threshold efforts.

I've always found the 5 min or 6 min max that precedes the 20 minute effort in the classic FTP test changes the 20 minute quite a bit vs what I could do as a stand alone 20 minute effort. Nice video!

Interesting comparison. My 2cts about both protocols. (while keeping in mind, that i consider FTP tests just something to set training zones.) The ramp test is great for anyone who is new to structured training or has been of the bike for a while. You just go until you literally can't pedal anymore. No worries about pacing etc. But, it won't be accurate for some people. It might overestimate (like in your case) or underestimate. The 20min test is better if you already have a feel of what your FTP might be. But it's still difficult to pace correctly. Nothing more frustrating then blowing up 17mins into your test, because you went out to hard. A workout i like to do to see if my FTP is set correctly is something like 4x10min at FTP with 5mins of rest in between. If you can complete that and not feel destroyed after the last 10mins, your FTP is set correctly.

This is a good video showing how the ramp test is not the same as a 20 minute test. I’ve been doing 20 and 60 minute tests for well over a decade, and ramp “ftp” tests are something that was created more recently for the beginning rider as the 20 and 60 minute tests are too hard for the starting rider. If you can’t complete a 20 minute test at the power you that believe is your ftp then that is not your ftp for sure. Good to see that you’re trying different things on your videos.

Max, in races what trainer difficulty do you use?. Zwift default is 50% but it may be worth you experimenting with a slightly lower number like 30%. It would flatten the undulations to a degree allowing you to spin up with the terrain rather than torque up or drop a gear. Also note, at zero % trainer difficulty your trainer is acting like a set of rollers where the power output is pretty much proportional to wheel speed and the system or terrain is not controlling your power at all. You can race in this mode, the disadvantage is that you cant feel the terrain undulations in the pedals but you can basically dial in a cadence and get an exact power for it similar to erg mode but you are effectively in control etc. something like 30% reduces the amount of shifting that you have to do but still gives you a enough feel in the pedals to be aware that the road is heading upwards.

In my opinion the problem in 2x 8min, 20min and 60min tests is the fact that there has to be a target set before testing to produce a good quality effort. That means there is a chance to fail and succeed and because of that, it becomes a mental test just as much as it is a physical one. Ramp test is a different proposition, as it just like taking of a bandage in comparison and it is more focused on all-out physical performance. Also, I wouldn't get too focused on testing as is. Testing is only a tool to achieve efficient & high quality training, and good training is testing in itself (although not usually measuring FTP).

As you said in the end it is for you possible to probably hold on another 5 mins and completing a 20 min test. You'll still have that heart rate drift that you really can't have to complete a full 60 mins, because it will accumulate and you will struggle. I think these short FTP tests(ramp and 20 min) show a bit more how much you can suffer than how fit you are sometimes. I understand that it is very difficult to know what sustained numbers you might be able to hold for 60 mins, and what that would even feel like for a beginner. I'm all for it but sometimes peoples FTP, even my own, feels inflated when I think of keeping that number for 1 whole hour and how different that is to suffering for 5-10 mins mentally.

Interesting video Max! I find that holding threshold wattage in ERG mode feels much harder than holding the same wattage in Sim (non ERG) mode. I wonder if you would have found it easier to complete if it wasn't in ERG mode. I think that might be why the 20min part of the long FTP test on Zwift is in Free ride mode rather than ERG. If you want to bump up your 1min, 2min, 5min power, have a look at the weekly Zwift Hill Climb Racing series, where only the KOM time matters. These short hill climbs really push your numbers to the limit! I'm within touching distance of A Cat due to these short hill climbs.

Not sure why you wouldn’t use the Zwift 20 min test. It’s got some good blocks before the test to get you ready. Btw if you think your ftp is x, then target x/0.95. (Training peaks and trainerday also have good ftp test blocks). From your racing efforts you look strong. Why not split the 20 into 5 minute blocks. Start 280 then increase by 10 each block, or however much you think. Then once you’ve got your bearings hit it the next week with a more consistent 20 effort. Anyway, there my non expert tuppence. Enjoy and look forward to seeing your next race!

I think the fluctuations in ERG mode make it harder to hold a steady effort like this and the red peaks might suggest that to be true. Maybe next time try not connecting the controllable Zwift connection to anything. Then find the right gear and cadence for the effort and focus on holding that cadence and the steady power should come with it. You may be able to add a bit more time to the effort but I doubt you’ll ever get near an hour of your actual FTP because I have read it is rare for anyone to be able to do that or even get close.

I think you could have dug in for the last 4 minutes of that effort, your heart rate didn't seem to indicate you were at your limit. That being said, definitely a solid effort!

Max, just remember that ftp is power only, and there is no correlation to w/kg. You can equate it to your weight but ftp only ever gives a power number. The ramp test takes something like 75% of your last 1 minute power in that test... works for some but not for others like yourself. The ftp number actually relates to what you can hold for a longer duration say 35mins to 1 hr. The 20 min ftp test is like the ramp test, they are both jut tests that calculate an approximation of your ftp. In the 20 min case the average power is taken to be about 105% of your ftp, ie in the case in the video if you want an ftp of 310 from a a 20 min ftp test you are gonna have to be hitting close to 330 for the 20 minutes. ( Nastier than you though I think!!)

Was this in ERG mode? Would be interesting to see the spikes or lack there of) if you tried the same test without ERG.

standard FTP 20mins tests also requires ~5 mins vo2max or above effort - to deplete anaerobic power, then rest 10 mins and THEN 20 mins effort. and then try 311*105% = 326W

Your blue graph for your 20 min warmup suggests you never got out of Z2, that's not a warmup. I would suggest doing a couple 15-20 second spin-ups into Z4 to get the lactate flowing into the quads in small amounts. That will help with that first 2-minute quad burn. I've watched quite a few of your races and you have a high cadence. I'm curious as to why you chose 80-85 instead of the 90-95 that you normally ride at. I think you would fare better if you did this at 85-90 and leaned more on your aerobic capacity which would be normal for you. Just my 2 cents...keep up the great content!

Here is my numbers: ramp test ftp = 308w; 20 min power = 326w (so FTP=309w); One hour effort in perfect conditions (velodrome) = 282w. So my opinion, that ramp test usually exaggregates FTP a little bit :)

Position notice. Would you benefit lowering your saddle even 1-2cm, your hip is moving quite a lot and leg reach is quite extensive. Give it a try, 5mm at a time, any benefit to power production?

I only take ramp tests, and only compare them to eachother to have an overall picture of my fitness. Performance changes day to day, so everything is a moving target.

291watts is crazy to me 😂 as a relative beginner i recently did the gorby workout, my final 5 mins i averaged 177 watts which i was pretty happy with. I definitely notice this heart rate drift as well. I want to do another ftp to see where i am, i havent been doing any structured training and been switching workouts between weightlifting and zwift but alsways thinking im not fresh enough for 20 mins of pain 😂

Holding constant power with same cadence on the flat really kills my legs fast. Try holding the power up Alpe du Zwift for example, I like to use low trainer difficulty to simulate flat with small hills outside. Those changes in cadence help a lot with long efforts and changing gears distract from the pain. This of course means no erg mode. Also make sure your cooling is good enough (a blower fan like vacmaster or wahoo headwind) or you get a feeling that your legs tire out when actually you are overheating.

Do not use ERG mode for FTP and most FTP tests have a different warming up protocol where you already reach required load in warming up. I also did not reach the end of my last 20 min. FTP test due to fatigued legs. I still got a good estimate of my FTP(Different training program than Zwift).

My understanding if you do a proper FTP test is that even with ERG mode off that Zwift will disable the impact of climbs (your speed will change but not the perceived difficulty).

I'm an idiot and just decided to get myself used to 60 minute tests. I've been a TT specialist for years, so it's somewhat 'normal' for me...but man, it hurts. It is satisfying in a masochistic way :P

Just a question. Should you not take the 280w and multiply it by 0.95 and that is your FTP

What did your heart rate look like for the ramp test? What is your max heart rate if you don't mind sharing. FWIW, I'm 4yrs older than you, I'm overweight, and have an FTP of ~310 and in a 50min CX race, my average heart rate is 169 and max usually 177bpm.

So your estimated FTP would be around 3.6W/kg, still an improvement from the 3.2! :) I actually do a ramp test first (using Wahoo SYSTM), when I feel I've gained in fitness to affect my workout targets, and then an FTP test a few days later--what SYSTM calls Full Frontal, is actually a test of 5sec, 1min, 5min, and 20min. And pretty much only test for the purpose of structured workouts.

To me the biggest flaw people make when they talk about FTP is they think it is the power you can hold for 1hour.. Pretty much a load of garbage really.. Your FTP is not made up of just 1 zone that you sit in. Every person is built differently. This is why when you do a race for 1hour you could have an average power of 311watts therefore you would say thats how many watts you can do in 1hour. This though would of been made up of alot of Zone 2/3 and then sprints into Zone 4 and 5. Bet if you redid this test and instead set the trainer to 250watts for 50mins and then try and push some big numbers over the last 10mins like 500 watts for 1min then back to 300 for 1min and then 400 watts for a min and then maybe try hold 350 until the 1 hour mark you could average out to that number. The only people I would expect to have an FTP of 311 and be able to sit on that for 1hour would be time trialists or Triathletes who train themselves to just hold 1 consistent power

I tend to find my power is lower on zwift than outside. I have noticed that my hr is slightly lower on the trainer also, may be due to heat. It would be interesting to see if other users see a similar pattern. Might be time to freezes a set of gloves and see what happens to my performance.

Zwift does pull number even if you do free riding, not only from races. They use all of the power information.

You can not do this in erg mode. Erg mode feels much more strenuous than to ride in free mode on zwift. And it depends on also of the device which you are using, like wahoo kickr or tacx. I'm using the stages smart bike. The erg mode is more comfortable than other devices. Anyway, your power output is great. Stay healthy and enjoy your fitness and riding your bike.

No, you really need to do an hour solid and prove you have the endurance. Perhaps do 250w for 15m and if you're ok, then do a further 15m at say 275, and if thats ok then say 300w for the last half hour. I see lots of people with these FTPs and they really do look overinflated. A Canadian domestic road cyclist champion seemed to think he did and could hold 300w for a few hours.

So can anyone please tell me that i have recently did my ramp test on erg mode and than after some time at 300 watts I can’t even pedal because everytime after 300 watts my roller become so hard that i can’t even pedal like even on stroke so please can any tell me why it is happening and i always see people doing ramp test and going a bit easy on 300 watts so why there smart trainer is not going hard why? And i have recently got to know about spiral of death but why it is happening with me everytime at 300 watts why not more than that? is there anything that you have to continue apply force on pedal than only it will work but if thats the case than also i am applying power to pedal after 300 watts but my trainer won’t make be do it because it gets so hard like you can’t even pedal so what the solution for this in ftp or ramp test please reply if anyone knows

still good effort imo

Did you ever try the 20 min test again after this ?

I took Ramp test, got 241. Start the FTP training plan can't finish tempo workouts whatsoever. Basically impossible and HR way too high. Mines probably closer to 210.

My Zwift Ramp is 15% too high. Completely unusable unless you know and account for the error. Good for quick progress checking though.

I did a ramp test and got 311w.Did a iTT and got 311w for 21 min 😀

Did you forget about the 95% factor? For 311W FTP, 20mins should be at 327W...

It’s just like a car MOT. It’s only as good as you are on the day you did the test.

...and when you've already got decades of cycling in your legs, just go do a Club 10mile TT. And then have a little cry in the car park afterwards.

I was disappointed, I was expecting you to do the 20 minute one, and do an all out 1 hour one to see what your real FTP is. I use Rouvy, pick a pan flat ride that I know I can't complete in an hour and go as hard as I can for an hour. It is surprising how much lower the real hour of riding is versus a 20 minute or ramp test.

ftp could be accurate for you 162 isnt that high right? Shouldn't it be at 180 at 20 min?

I find I get a higher FTP with 20 min tests... but I'm not a very punchy rider.

you are really missing the point of what ftp actually is. it's the maximum sustainable aerobic effort which you can hold for somewhere from 35 to 60 mins. it should be with controllable breathing, not panting. its hard but doable and requires good fuelling as it will use a lot of carbs, generate a lot of lactate which you should be using as fuel. its not really accurate to check this with a ramp or 20 min test as these are generic guesses. ask yourself how much power you can hold in steady effort for 35 to 40 mins without killing yourself. test that. that's your ftp. use that. it may be lower than you would like, but training could become more productive. you may not ever ride at ftp for 40 mins, but ftp correlates with performance across many durations.

Your excuse for being in ERG mode isn’t valid. Just put your trainer difficulty to zero and it flattens all courses.