I realize that you have many subscribers that have been with you a long time. I have been subscribed for over a year. I have watched the current videos and I have watched some of the older ones so I could understand the story behind the families you follow. I have to give my opinion with what I think is the undertone of this new video. You can not feel like you are responsible for the unfortunate outcome of Charlotte. I can feel the genuine caring feelings you have for the Monkey Hill gang. You may have been asked for your input on the Charlotte situation but it was ultimately the family who had Charlotte to make the final decision. I haven't watched all your videos yet. The ones I have watched there is no guarantee to the outcome to any of the situations you have captured. Your help with Teenie was a lot of trial and error. Thankfully Teenie made it and what a bright girl she is. I'm curious as to what kind of mother she may be. You must try and remember, "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago" Your work on Monkey Hill has brighten some dark days for me and most likely for other too.🙂✌
Because of arroz,s bad advice to the family that adopted poor cute little Charlotte it led to a painful horrible death so to me he is to blame for her ending instead of saying hang on for a proper sanctuary to take her,absolute terrible decision.
@@billbishop9029 what part of "there aren't any proper sanctuaries to take Charlotte" do you not understand? The one that would accept her said they would EUTHANIZE her as they are having problems controlling the populations already. If you have such a need to blame somebody, how about blaming the mother who birthed her and left her laying in the street? Seems stupid to me, to blame an animal for being an animal, but you seem awfully small-minded so perhaps that will make you feel better some how.
Arroz, we have to let it go, life is far from perfect. That was so sad and I feel for the family. Velvet monkey rehabilitation videos always show the babies have to be able to feed themselves before being returned to a group. It is even more important than human imprinting on their minds. Charlotte is at peace now. Her little face will be with us for a long time. She may have known little of what happened to her as she looked so dehydrated and weak towards the end. She did get to be with her only real mom before she passed and felt love and safety. You have taught us so much about their nature and acceptance of the things of their world. We will except all of life. Thank you.🐒🥺🧚
vervet monkey foundation. you make a great point that im sure arroz already knows. he makes these videos for our sake. we probably arent teaching him anything about monkeys. i def wish they hadnt risked it. it seems so obvious after the fact that a baby that age would very not likely get to one of the few who could breast feed her. it was so utterly sad seeing the video of the feeder the day before she passed. she kept glaring at the camera. knowing a human was behind that camera. the only type of person to ever really show her love. you could see she longed to get to him. but at that point was just to weak. and could only stare with longing.
@@soulfly3438 I just ask myself over and over- why was the Vervet Monkey Foundation able to do it, and these fine people not? Like AM said in a subsequent comment, if the family kept Charlotte for 4 months until she could fend for herself, she would never ever leave her human family. I guess the VMF has a team of people who all systematically distance themselves from the babies and groom them for fostering. They sterilize all the females, thereby creating almost an artificial environment of females who all crave babies. And, they also introduce the foster Mom gradually- I think the foster Mom has to spend something like a month in the intro cage with the babies. Those situations aren't available on Monkey Hill. Do you think if Charlotte was a bit bigger and independent, she would have been able to break away from Flea Picker? I know it's all moot and it's Monday Morning Quarterbacking- but I like to learn from these situations, and am just wondering some of your thoughts (others feel free to comment as well). Thanks and a Merry Christmas to you.
Watching the beginning helped me see why her mum named her sleepy eyes 😌 and that yawn was so cute. My thoughts are with her mum & human family. Wishing them well & that their hearts continue to heal knowing they did the best they could for their lil Charlotte.❤
With ALL my heart I want to thank you for all the time, knowledge and hard work to give your best to the people. I'm embarrassed that without all the knowledge some find rewording criticizing You . Please do not take that to your heart. NOT WORSTED. Thanks to you ARROZ we all have memories to stay !
It reminds of the story of Old Yeller! So sad! But these wonderful people did what they could! Nature can be cruel! Thank you for your excellent videos 😇
We viewers always tell JW and uncle Arroz thank for what they. Like many of you, I wish we could say thank you to the regular feeders including the nice lady with the cart she pulls all the way up the hill to feed our beloved friends . Charlotte family included too.
@@venetabritt2771 Thank you. I hope and pray the young lady and her family are recovering from this ordeal and will always remember and recognize they did everything they could possibly do to help baby Charlotte. Especially now that Arroz has explained there is not a refuge in Hong Kong; and the one place where an injured adult monkey could be taken (three weeks before Charlotte) could only euthanize him. This knowledge truly gives us the full perspective why the humans watched at a distance hoping the mother would return; but when they realized it wouldn't happen tried an intervention. Sadly it did not come off as hoped. They should not remain sad but instead know they did their best to help her with the knowledge and tools they had at their disposal to help her survive in the forest with her troop.
I have watched Charlotte's videos several times and my heart breaks a little bit more each time I watch wishing for a different outcome for Charlotte. Yeah there was a small chance she could have made it, if Mom seeing her daughter being so mistreated and starved may have eventually stepped in. That didn't happen. Which makes it more heartbreaking when you see her mom and her sister her family doing okay and knowing Charlotte could and should have been with them. I really commend and appreciate Charlotte human family for stepping in and providing her love and care for the 14 days she was with them. I'm sure if my heart was a little broken just watching the videos theirs was shattered watching her die, when all they try to do was give her a chance to live, in freedom.
@@Emzzz78 Dont be delusional yourself. There is no monkey God destiny. There is no "supposed to" survive or not survive. What happens occurs because of the actions, reactions, and interactions, nothing is "meant". If they had kept her for 4 mos and taught her to forage, she likely would've survived longer. If a refuge had agreed to taken her in, she wouldve survived there. I was shocked at the idea they gave a non foraging 2 wk old infant to a troop. Terrible idea.
@@rickwrites2612 Agreed to a point I made already regarding feeding mothers out of turn in the troop hierarchy. Ultimately the interference of humans taught good old Flea Pickerc that a baby means extra food and attention. It's been seen before with males kidnapping babies to get food. Thank God these monkeys barely let go of their infants in the first 3-4 months or you would have all kinds of captive meal tickets. I think Karen is just being a Karen.
@@rickwrites2612 I do not think so. By 2 weeks she had already imprinted, by 4 mos there is no way she would ever leave her surrogate mother at all, and if done so forcefully, she would just run after any humans and cars on the road and getting itself killed. There is no refuge for them in HK - she will just be euthanized like another adult the feeders sent to them just less than 3 weeks ago.
AM, I agree, Charlotte could have made it... IF. IF Enoch had understood/ cared to know what Eyeshadow was offering. He didn't know or didn't care that Charlotte was starving to death as he held so tight to her, she was simply an easy way to get more goodies for him. IF an experienced momma had picked her up instead of Enoch. IF Elaine hadn't abandoned her at birth. So many 'if'..... God bless the young lady who DID care for her. How is SHE?
Charlotte would have survived had she have been able to. Trust the mothers! She wouldn’t have left Charlotte to die if she knew she could live. Trust the mums!!! They know what’s going on more than any human could.
Humans do horrible things to their babies too. When people judge Monkeys or any other animals they don't take into consideration that animals use the logic of nature. They don't have the complexity of thought process as humans. Humans have thinking, Instincts and feelings, while animals have basically Instincts and emotional connection witch each other. Animals primates related to humans are Apes & monkeys and their complexity of Society sometimes is very similar of human kind. Monkeys & apes suffered from many mental breakdown like humans, like depression and psychosis. In human cases, we have ways to deal with this conditions by logical process we created a system that help us. But in the animal kingdom is different, they have to deal with it by instincts of survival. Many experiment in Macaques monkeys (especially in Rhesus) shows that when a female monkey abandoned her born baby has to be under this circumstance, 1. Lab Monkeys or captivity monkeys. Female monkeys who spent years in labs or captivity without a Social group abandoned their babies because they don't know how to interact with them. Their maternal instincts are shot down without a social interaction guidance. 2. Like humans, female monkeys can suffered from Postpartum traumatic depression. Most of them have to do with a very difficult and painful pregnancy and partum they associated their baby with the reason of their pain. Survival logic here is stronger that emotional and maternal instincts. 3. Genes. Like in humans monkeys also have genetics than influence in the way of parenting. If a monkey came from a family of not maternal Instincts, then there is a big probability that she will be incapable to raise a family. Elaine had monkeys before and she seems to care for them, so I don't think her genetics played part in abandoned Charlotte. To me has to be with a painful partum and trauma that shot down her maternal Instincts. And the monkey who sadly took Charlotte in the end, he only has the protective instincts towards her but not the maternal one. And that is why Charlotte didn't had a chance. Looking back to Charlotte story, I can't help thinking that this always going to be the case of her fate in their first place, because any other members of the troops took care of her when she was left alone from her mom. Usually someone step in. There is a case in the Parking lot troop where one of Female monkeys is taking care of another abandoned baby (she has one of her own). I think if Charlotte was tried in a smaller troop she would have survival. I know she was taken to the troop her mom's belong, but if we studied carefully the case, this troop didn't came forward to nature Charlotte in the first place, they were protective with the baby but never nature. Years ago I was watching a documentary about abandoned pet monkeys, and I think was Born to be free foundation who started a program to reintroducing the monkeys to their Natural habitat, and one of the fascinating facts that you learned is how baby monkeys can get attached pretty quickly to humans and rejected their own when they see them. Most of the cases takes a lot of time to be adopted from other member of a female troop. Because not only the baby already has a bond with humans, but their monkeys natural instincts changes and the monkeys can perceived that the baby is different. Smaller troops have better approach to monkeys who has been in humans care than bigger troops.
If you watched the other video you’d have seen the mother had either a prolapse of the uterus or rectum after what might have been a difficult birth. No one knows how long she was in labor or exactly what her status was when she walked away. Why do human mothers abandon their babies? Children abandoned by human mothers are adopted and given good homes. Sometimes birth mothers are the problem and the babies are perfect in every respect. I’m assuming that was the case here. The mother could not physically raise her.
Poor Charlotte as she was lying there on the ground you can look into her eyes she looks so empty inside as if she has lost all hope it looks so sad. I'm just so glad she's in a better place now for she will never feel no pain again.
Charlotte's mum didn't look well after she gave birth. She may have been suffering from some kind of post-partum trouble, much like humans do. I am crushed to know that her little sweetheart was rejected. RIP dear Charlotte.
@ArrozMarisco I believe you pointed out on Charlotte's first video that it appeared the biological mother had an issue following the birth, perhaps a prolapsed uterus. If it was some infirmity with the biological Mom, then that immediately reduced poor Charlotte's chances of survival. She had no nourishment for hours before the humans decided to try to save her. I hope and pray the young lady who tried so hard to save Charlotte and loved her so much will take comfort in knowing she gave that baby the best she could and more love than the little one could have ever felt without her presence. I know all of the humans did there best with the information they had at the time. My own father was a very wise man. He taught me "hindsight is always 20/20 in this world". Thinking about all the would-haves, could-haves, should-haves, is only beating yourself up more. Always remember you can only do your best with information available at the time. What matters is you tried your best, even if the end result isn't what you hoped for." Arroz, you have contributed so much to our knowledge and understanding of the macaque monkeys, and in so doing have entertained many through the dark days pandemic. Please think about my dad's words of wisdom focus instead focus on brighter days ahead. Or, as the poet Ralph Waldo Emerson penned: "Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could. Some blunders and uncertainties crept in. Tomorrow is a new day. Begin it well and serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense." Thank you, dear friend. While we have never met, and likely never will, I shall always think of you in friendship for what you have brought to my world over the course of and unspeakably difficult year. Please if you can, share this message with the young lady also. I have thought of and prayed for her a thousand times. She is a remarkable and brave girl. God's blessings~ 🙏👍🏻☺❤ Donna
Thank you for the update on them. I'm glad you showcased Eyeshadow, I mentioned on that video that she seemed desperate to get ahold of Charlotte. Man, Skull Head is looking his age. It seemed like maybe he had some back/spine issues.
I’m glad you can explain skull head and his troop… Without you I wouldn’t be able to identify each and every name of the troop… Thank heavens we have you to explain it…💜
I have not been able to rewatch Charlotte’s story, it is just too sad. Human intervention in this setting is way too difficult other than feeding them. You tried your best, there was a chance to save her, but the odds / reality were against you. RIP Charlotte.
I think maybe there's more to the story than we will ever know, for a wild animal to give birth and walk away leaving her new born, maybe there was something wrong with the baby that we can't see. I think it's a little strange she gave birth on the road in front of humans and then walked away from Charlotte. All the wildlife centers I've spook to say , "a baby must feed itself before letting it go back to the wild." It's a shame but life goes on, new babys of monkeys die, nature can look nasty to us humans but she knows what she's doing.
These monkeys are so traumatized by the constant disturbance of the video makers, and interference with their lives, I have no doubt it affects their natural instincts, adversely.
Once they took the baby, she shouldve been raised to be independent ie foraging and learning submissive behaviors, til at least 4 or 5 mos old before being given back. That wouldve been a 24/7 job as well. But these ppl had skills and good intentions and were willing to be educated. They couldve done it. They managed to prevent thumb sucking which is extremely impressive. If she could feed herself and walk around and stay out of other monkeys way, she wouldve had a chance. A breastfeeding infant whose mom already abandoned it has no chance. Really if looked globally and given to a ethical zoo or refuge she wouldve had best chance. Im sorry but I was shocked it was decided to give a milk dependent 2 wk old baby back to troop when its mother already abandoned it. What was the point of rescue.
Sinceramente, después de haber conocido el calor y cariño de una familia humana, dejarle en tan cruel situación me parece deplorable. Hubiera sido mejor dejarla dónde nació. Hubiera muerto sin tanto sufrimiento😪😪
I watched lil Charlotte’s story. I know the family, and esp the young woman who nursed her for days, felt gutted. We all do. People may ask, “why didn’t they just keep her safe at their home”? Having a monkey for a pet is a huge responsibility. They can live a long life, and your life would be limited because finding someone to “monkey sit” would be difficult. That is awfully confining for a young girl with education ahead. And primates are demanding because of their need for stimulation and companionship. It was a difficult situation any way you look at it, but lil Charlotte was loved and the decisions made had only her best interest at heart. Sad ending with high hopes for a good life with her kind, not realized.
Normally when a mother: A WILD Animal leaves their babies, it's for a Purpose. Period. They know something isn't right with the baby! Let nature take it's coarse, 'Naturally'. Some babies aren't meant to survive, the Mother's Always know. This is Reality & Nature, You can't save them all. 《Though my condolences to the Family & ALL people who love animals, who helped Charolett for the time they took care of her. Yes this story broke my heart also, may she be at peace.》💖😢😭😭😭💖
I was so distraught when I watched the second part video that for a few days I can't get over it..that was so heartbreaking 😭..that I didn't watch the last few minutes of it. But that's water under the bridge now. Charlotte is at peace and no longer suffering..she's happily hoping and playing after crossing the rainbow bridge. However, there are lessons learned here, specially for those who will attempt to rescue an abandoned baby monkeys. We can't blame the family who rescued Charlotte, they did their best. We can't blame Enoch, Elaine and Eye Shadow, they're just being monkeys. it's Charlotte's Fate, we can't play with Mother Nature.
That's BS about messing with nature! It was a huge mistake for her to go back to NATURE-she should've stayed with her human mom! She would've been loved and well cared for! You are a idiot and I'll never forgive you for even thinking another female monkey may care for her!?!! And thinking she can still be bottle fed!! Hahaha...When Flea Picker got her what a tragedy 😢 should've tranquilized that "thing "and grabbed Charlotte ! The lady that found her and raised her- it was meant to be! You are a loser for taking that baby from her! Throwing Charlotte in a troop with great expectations! Curses to you and your stupidity!! I'm unsubsribing to any of your stories now! This was the worse monkey abuse I ever saw ! You filmed and filmed and didn't do a dang thing to save her!! Forever shame 😪...
@@merrimelody7510 You are soooooo delusional if that is what you make of this situation. Arroz did not take the baby from anyone. The family that took her and fed her for 14 days made the decision to take her back to her troup after they could not find a sanctuary for her. It was NEVER their intention to keep her forever as a pet as they know that is not in her best interest. Her best life would be to live free with her own kind. But please, don't let me keep you. Be on your way. Don't let the door hit you . . . Buh-bye now!
My gratitude for the love and care given to Charlotte by her human rescuers continues. Also continues for those in the troop who tried hard to get Charlotte from Flea Picker. It's terribly sad, as with so many she would've done well, but she was held by one young male until her death. So much love but terrible luck, heartbreaking. 💔
I think there's too much human interference with these animals. They don't seem to be fed nearly as much as the macaques in Cambodia that are massively overweight and most of these look fairly normal weight, maybe a bit overweight on some. The problem is feeding them. They shouldn't be fed. It makes them dependent on humans and they no longer seem to fear humans. These monkeys don't seem to act nearly as food aggressive or dependent on humans as the Cambodian macaques either. And I love how these are filmed more from a distance and not chased down with cameras. It's nice to see what they are supposed to be like. I just don't agree with people who chase them and taunt them and set up false narratives that exploit the animals. I'm glad AM doesn't do those things. Charlotte, I truly believe had something wrong from the beginning which is why her mother just abandoned her right there. Even if we can't see it they sense it. I think maybe she would have lived had she been kept with the human family even though I completely against primates being kept in a home for any reason. I believe she had some sort of defect and getting hit on the head presumably because she was being carried upside-down is what possibly caused an aneurysm or some sort of trauma to her brain and she bled out intracranially. This is just my speculation that there was a defect at birth and trauma to her head kicked it off and killed her. This one actually made me sad and I'm not a fan of macaques. These are different than the ones in Cambodia though and it's interesting to see their hierarchy and the difference between these and the ones in Cambodia.
I have a question that I have wanted to ask for the last 5 years: Doesn't anyone in Hong Kong eat bread crusts? It seems that tons of crusts are delivered to Monkey Hill every week. Even the higher ranking monkeys seem to chew what little white there is off the crust then drop it & move on to the next piece.
@@Emzzz78 wow what? If you read what I wrote, you would see that I have been watching AM for 5 years, that includes his travel videos & investigative videos. Do you know the answer to my question? No? Then shut up. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
When I was a child one of my aunts was obsessed about us kids eating our bread crusts. Every family gathering we heard her mantra! So when I read your note and recalling my own observations of even the monkey's not eating the crusts, I remembered Auntie's additional admonition that the poor little children in China would be glad to have them. It would have been fun to share, "No, Auntie! Not even the monkeys over there want to eat bread crusts!" 🤣🤣🤣
@@tinahorn5863 lol 😆 agreed, I think the name now famous in US society pretty much characterizes the unwarranted comment. Might be that the British style of finger sandwiches results in tons of crusts?
Yes. That is the best way to consider all of this. We humans tend to beat ourselves up when we have tried and failed. But the act of trying, even in an impossible situation, is what we should celebrate. In my view, Charlotte's human family are heros for trying to save that beautiful little monkey. Their daughter in particular will never forget it. While I am sure it surely doesn't feel like it now, I hope it will in some way positively impact her entire life. Who knows, perhaps it will be this young lady who will help establish the first wildlife sanctuary in Hong Kong? No matter what, I believe someone this caring has a bright future ahead. @ArrozMarisco, if you are reading all of the responses to this feed, I imagine you have noticed some praise and caring for the young lady who became Charlotte's surrogate mother. I hope you can convey to her, as sad as this whole episode was, she has much respect for what she did for Charlotte. Many, including my family, are thankful for her presence in this difficult situation. As it did in our household, I expect it generated more positive discussions about the care and respect of wildlife and humans respect for and response to their plight. Actually your entire channel accomplishes that for many of us. Thank you again, sir, for your contribution to our understanding of primates!
Hiii Ickie...back on normal work and snack schedule..White chocolate covered KitKats, Pretzel Rods and Hot Chocolate....The Charlotte story really tugs at my heart strings.
Hold up. If Charlotte had a sister that was raised and healthy why was she not cared for by at least a one time mother? I made fun of her being left on the road like roadkill but why was she left like that? They say these mothers can smell or sense something wrong with their new progeny. Is this the likely answer? A suspected defect? Seems so arbitrary one lived and was loved and the other was left to die if all things were equal.
I could'nt watch part II of Charlottes drama till the end cause I knew how it would end...🙈😔 that was too sad. If I imagine to were in place of the family/ surrogate mother which cared for Charlotte, I had acted exactly the same and probably made the same decisions. They wanted the best and tried all they could do. Sometimes fate is unevitable. Especially in a country where you can't get proper help from the authorities or animal protection authorities.
Too bad you couldn't have placed her with say Lowina's troop. In my mind they would have eagerly welcomed another girl. I don't know if that would have been the actuality but... sigh. twenty twenty and all that. I understand why you placed her back with her natal troop. Still wish it had been successful. Especially when there were adult females who were asking to take her from the young male who appropriated her. I get why he grabbed her and didn't want to release her to anyone else. He's surely seen mothers with young babies getting extra attention and food from the feeders. He probably wanted some of that for himself.
I didn't make the decision. I was just giving advice and trying to help as much as I could. I would have given Charlotte to either our gang or Löwina's to begin with if I had been in charge.
@@ArrozMarisco360 you were also in a very difficult situation being seen as an expert but only being able to give advice within the situation presented to you. It wasn’t your place to suggest alternatives. It’s time for everyone to let it go and not to second guess those who made the decisions.
I feel so sad for the daughter of the people who picked Charlotte up on the road. She took care of Charlotte 24/7. This may sound harsh but Charlotte was probably doomed from birth. The daughter of the couple was in an impossible situation. Charlotte had to go back to her troop, monkeys really do not make good pets. Charlotte's death devastated the girl. I still do not understand the monkeys' love of bread or why they are fed bread in the first place. I realize it is donated by restaurants but why don't they donate veggies they cannot serve to people because it is too old or has wilted. Too bad someone does not plant several fruit bearing trees scattered about on Monkey Hill.it would be great if something like zucchini could be planted but the monkeys would eat the plants before the plants could yield. I mention zucchini because two plants can feed a whole neighborhood in the US.
Why bread? Probably because it was free or cheap. Hongkongers do not eat the crust of the loaf bread, and any day or two day old bread cakes are discarded. Vegetables and fruits although plentiful, are more expensive because they are imported all over the world, or shipped from China. We are talking about a lot of food, money spend by these good hearted feeders feeding more than 2000 monkeys daily. There are fruit trees around which the monkeys pucked when they are in season. Forget about vegetables, I don’t think these will grow up to maturity before they are consumed by wild boars too. It is the feeders who are privately funding the food source of all these primates. There are no refuge centers for these kind of primates. And it is illegal to keep them as pets. Hongkong laws are no joke.
He was right. If the male monkey (Flea Picker) would have given Charlotte to the female (Eye Shadow) to nurse, she would have had a chance to survive. But because the male kept her, wouldn't let her go, wouldn't let her eat any food, wouldn't let Eye Shadow nurse her and then started dragging and slinging Charlotte around, that is when Charlotte's fate was sealed. She didn't die of starvation. She died from the wound to the head that was caused by the male.
It was a good effort to try to help. Charlotte. But once that male had her, the baby should have been taken from him (I recall there was a chance to grab her), fed her, and then try again with the hope that a female would have gotten her. I know it’s easier to say it from far away, but once that male got her & kept her, she was doomed. She did have a chance. RIP Charlotte 💖
I feel so bad for these people. They tried so hard to give this baby the best chance. It’s so sad how it turned out. This video just broke my heart all over again. She was just to small to be put back with these guys, she wasn’t strong enough to handle what happened. It just sucks!
This was a sad occurrence but one that could be well expected to happen. I realize that it is humans nature to rescue but in reality and abandon newborn animal is abandoned for many reasons all of which mean that it was destined to not survive. Wildlife rehab specialists know well the risk of pulling an infant from a mother or rescuing a baby a mother chooses to abandon if the troop goes along with it is a real risk. This us because while the infant needs the care and hand rearing if humans at that point but cannot be treated as anything but how an infant primate would be reared. Soon as you start putting clothing on them and playing with them as you would a human baby you have crossed a line and now have a primate that will need to be kept in captivity until it can be rehabilitated and integrated into a troop that will accept strangers. Milk is also a prime concern as most primates loose their milk in several days as long as they never nurse and most primates really need milk for the whole time until they are of the juvenile stage. Putting a two week old infant back with a troop is pretty much a death sentence as that infant will not survive on the whims of allomothers and not around the clock feedings. Also thar first two weeks during which time they are barely separate from their mothers is when they learn, mostly by observation, how society in a troop worked and what rank and other social aspects mean in preparation for when they can step away from mom and interact with others. Often what we often think is a overprotective mother not letting go of her baby to interact when others of the same age are is usually due to the fact that the mother has determined the baby has not learned all it should know before interacting with even just other babies. After 5 hours and mother nor troop returned and all that were around were males keeping anyone away is that for whatever was going on in their minds that baby was left to die. In a case like that hand rearing by professionals who know how to hand rear a primate by acting like a primate would is the best chance with a plan when it was old enough to integrate the primate into a troop that would accept outsiders. Even then it would have needed a control space where the infant still could have had access to milk and integration could be monitored 24 hours a day for at least 3 days to make sure a female had taken the role of protector and a way, if necessary, to get the baby back from the troop. This would never have been done with a 2 week old infant and never back into a troop that declared her dead. We see great apes have capacity to accept back infants removed from them for medical care or new mothers that seem unable to bond who will be introduced but in other primates a rejection like this that was a rejection from the whole troop is, in the troops mind a done deal. We will never know if this was because there was something wrong with the infant they can spot that we cannot, or whether the mother was taken and mated with a rejected male or what their reasoning but in some minds that baby was not considered part of the troop and left behind, especially evident was the birthing place. The reason she was in the hands of a male relative may have either been because he did not agree with the troop but without females on his side all he could do was keep her out if hands that would hurt her maybe not realizing that too young to eat and getting no milk was a slow death too. Sadly by the time the family got her back she needed a re-feeding program that involved monitored rehydration and a slow and gradual return to milk formula. Returning her formula immediately may actually have lead to her fairly sudden death at that point as her body was in starvation mode and could not handle the amount of nutrients thrown at it with a full bottle of formula and shut down many organs. I really think this needs to be put in the past as it was a sad episode where human empathy was misplaced and really is an education on just how different primates and humans are even if we carry a lot if the same DNA. You cannot blame the mother or the troop for making a decision as they probably have done for 100s of generations. Once a human did step in I do blame then for not being willing to turn the baby over to people that have handled this before just because by then they had bonded and had an idea if what they wanted a baby raised in and did not agree with how those who specialize in this go about it. Also handing the baby over to the primate specialize would have enabled getting the baby a full medical work up and have determined if there was something wrong with that baby from it before birth. We have no idea how primates know these things but a great many that get abandoned as this one was turn up to have heart defects or problems that do not kill them immediately but they do die of in the first several weeks. Same with other birth defects. If a problem goes undetected and the mother and troop accepts the infant then they feel responsible for continuing to care for a skin or informed or disabled child which puts stress on the troop so if they know there is an issue all will abandon it even if it could live for a while. As humans we cannot see the logic in that because we know there are many ways we can intervene but for primates that do not have or even understand access to advanced medical care, cardiac care, corrective surgery, pediatrician ICUs and such, they are doing what in there world is most fair to everyone.
It kills me the way these monkeys will only eat around the crust of the bread and other foods that have a peel they won't eat it a lot of them and the excess of goodies I know has something to do with it but even before the excess amount of goodies a lot of them will not eat the peel off of a sweet potato or something like that
Like all of you, I've been thinking (obsessing?) about Charlotte's death since AM's two part film about her. My feelings make no sense, as I am deeply angry with a wild animal (Flea Picker) for being so childlike and possessive to Charlotte's detriment. Like another Viewer said, orphans need to know how to feed themselves before being re-released into the wild. But how can you predict that a male monkey would, in essence, capture and prevent Charlotte from fending for herself? So many Monday morning quarterback thoughts. But I am enjoying reading all of your comments and I do find them comforting, as I do AM's follow-up. She could have made it.
Yes. It makes perfect sense because you are grieving the loss of a beautiful fur-baby with whom you and me and many others fell in love. It was a heart wrenching lesson how fragile life is on this planet. 😢❤
Revives many difficult emotions and unanswerable questions. My final conclusion is the learned behavior of the mothers presenting babies for special feeding privileges was the thing Flea Pickerc understood best as clever monkeys would. The end result of humans feeding in this way was the reason for Charlotte's captivity. Perhaps the feeders could adjust their presentation of food to the natural order of things. Won't be the last time a youngster is injured or killed for favoritism. I worry for Teeny, she exhibits unnatural behavior at feeding that hopefully won't get her taught a hard lesson for being out of turn. It gets those Cambodian monkeys killed weekly just for the drama those sick viewers crave.
I used to watch the cambodian monkeys, i really dont think the viewers crave that kind of stuff i just think they dont know any better. I know i didnt until i started seeing Arroz's videos. Now i cant even check to see how those monkeys are doing because i get hurt every time. Hopefully people learn whats happening there and change to watch Arroz's videos or JDs .
My heart hurts as I looked into those beautifully sedated eyes that gives her brain nothing to learn, nothing to process. I would like to see them release her back to the troupe. They will absorb her and life will change… but the ones that have her won’t release the cash box. Sending hugs to you…I need some after this.
Wtf are you talking about??!! Your comment is insulting and derogatory on so many levels! Please just shut your mouth. Unless you plan to watch the first 2 videos in this 3 part series and educate yourself to the situation, no one wants to hear what you think about it. Shame on you talking bad about this family trying to do what they thought best for this poor baby. To say they drugged her and used her to earn money?! You are a clueless and hateful person. Do us all a favor and watch The Story of Lil Charlotte part 1 AND The Story of Lil Charlotte part 2 before you voice anymore asinine accusations.
She's in monkey heaven with GOD and JESUS and the other monkeys that has gone before her then one day her mum will see herand be with her and love her since she didn't here on Earth thank you for sharing her story with us
It's nice seeing Booper. It was so cute watching her with Teeny back in the day. But I don't remember seeing who her mum and siblings are does anyone know 🤔???
I've been left wondering why Charlotte's mom abandoned her baby, I see the monkey's as a loving and caring mother's toward their babies, she didn't hesitate to think twice when she walked away leaving her little one behind, I wish she had never returned to the wild, she had a chance at a good life with her human mommy 😢
Sometimes in animals if the female has a particularly hard and/or painful birth they associate that pain with the baby that was just born and want nothing to do with the baby (in their minds the pain) and they quickly as possible get away from the pain. Some mothers come back realizing that they had a baby some mothers don’t. It could be a hour or 2 till mom realizes “Oh I left my baby with the pain”, or “I am missing something/baby”, sometimes it can be a day or two, and sometimes they never go back. Hopefully the mother gets her brain and maternal instincts back quickly within a few hours but most times they don’t for days and when they come back the baby is gone or usually has died. It happens in humans too, we call it post partum. It was easy to see something like that was happening because the mother never even cleaned her baby. She got away from the pain as fast as she could. It’s sad but it happens.
Would it really be a good life living with humans. Macaques are very cute and loving babies and they will treat a human as their mother and cling to her the same. A human will never corrects a baby monkey like weaning a baby monkey, or putting a youngster in their proper place the way a real macaque mother would. We as humans are to kind to do those sry hard corrections on a baby we are just to kind hearted and would think that type of correction is cruel if given by a human. Also as they sexually mature they want to mate and they can become mean and aggressive if not spayed or neutered when they are very very young (as soon as they weigh 3 lbs), sometimes that does not even work. No one has ever housebroken a monkey. I always see them wearing diapers. Who wants to change adult monkeys diapers 6 times a day? Macaques also lived till about 30 years so not many people are going to put that type of commitment into an animal. Personally I think they should’ve kept Charlotte longer until at least she could’ve eaten on her own. I’ve seen a video from Cambodia where a person dumped a young baby macaque because they didn’t get the views on RU-vid to make enough money. So they dumped her in the park the other macaques in the troop tried to kill her but a large male grabbed her and protecting her and they put down big cookie sheets of chopped up watermelon and other fruit and peanuts and then filled the cookie sheet Taipan with formula when the male monkey came down as he bent down to eat eat The baby in his arms was able to bend over turn her head drink the formula eat the watermelon and other food and peanuts when they threw tons of peanuts on the ground even though the mail was hugging her tightly she could grab the peanuts and fill her pouches. I don’t think a monkey should be a pet at all but I do think they should’ve held Charlotte long enough that she could’ve eaten on her own. So when they threw down food peanuts and formula she was old enough to eat and drink on her own. She was a bit to young to figure that all out but they tried their best.
a little after 14 minutes. that footage of the feeders was so haunting. seeing charlotte stare to the cameraman. probably knowing this person is like my human mother. then you see him take the tumble with little charlotte and she yelps in pain. and it looks like her little head may have taken the brunt of that fall. that coulda been the time that did her in. or it could been happening alot. as she was being held upside down. you could see she still longed for a human. i think maybe if there is such a thing she got to much human love. a human mommy probably much more doting than a monkey mother. she fought like hell to get back to the human she loved. i wish they had lured that troop away the second day and tranquilized them all for little charlotte.
I wonder why elaine abandoned her baby as she did. She wasn't a first time mom. She has at least one other kid who she's successfully raised. Kids maybe two?
You all did what you could for Charlotte. The only thin you could realistically. The only place that would take her when she was a little older was going to keep her in a cage for the time she lived. I feel it was better for her to be with other monkeys and be wild and free for the little time she lived.
It’s still a mindfuck that some babies are treated like as they should be But then others , like Char are treated from jump street like they know something is wrong
She was abandoned for a reason, there was something wrong with her that's why they didn't want anything to do with her. Sad to say but it's true, it's nature's Way of taking out the trash 🤙🤙🤙
I don't think so. I think that her mother was wrong in the moments of and after birth. She had an uterus prolaps and had probably great pain. So she left the baby...
@@judithelpers4764 Just curious, how do you know she ahd a uterus prolaps? I don't recall this even being mentioned in the two videos about Charlotte at all.
I don’t get it, people say it’s abuse for a wild monkey to be in diapers and clothes, but this was ok. EVERYONE knows you can’t rerelease a baby monkey in the wild once it was raised by humans, but this was ok at first. Now people say she should stay with humans. People say no matter what humans shouldn’t interfere with nature bcuz everything happens for a reason. I’m not trying to be smart or argumentative bcuz I firmly believe that a monkey in human hands is better than one just being wasted. I’m just pointing out how it seems hypocritical, that’s all.
Incorrect. Hong Kong has NEVER culled the monkey population. Hong Kong has a sterilization program in place and periodically they capture and sterilize both male and females over the age of 2 years old.
I feel so bad for the family that tried to save Charlotte, they did the absolute best they could with the knowledge they had. I just wondered why as a doctor you didn’t step in to help when they got her back from the troop in such a bad dehydrated condition. I know you surely could of tube fed her fluids/formula which is not hard to do at all if you know how to do it. I understand that a IV catheter small enough for a tiny monkeys veins would’ve probably been impossible to find, even a butterfly IV would of most likely of been to large for her tiny veins and would of infiltrated (blew up her vein). But with the knowledge you have you could of put fluids Sub Q (under the skin) which her body would absorb naturally. I really think she may have had a very good chance to pop back quickly and survived with tube feeding and Sub Q liquids for a day or two, which you could of taught that lovely family to do very quickly. It is not hard for a novice to learn quickly once shown what it is, what to do and how to do it. Since I was a vet tech, ran a animal shelter for 24 years and was a licensed NJ wildlife Rehabilitator we had baby animals come in eyes still closed because they were just born and did Sub Q fluids and tube feeding and they bounced back to life sometimes in a few hours or 1 day. Of course in the spring I was inundated with baby animals from domestic cats and dogs to many wild squirrels, chipmunks, rabbits, raccoons and other wild animals people should of left alone but just had to pick up and bring to me not understanding that mother animals don’t stay with their baby’s 24/7. I had to quickly teach any person I could get to take these baby’s into their homes how to tube feed and give Sub Q fluids if they were in bad shape, most were. I always tube fed the baby’s till they could eat on their own. It was just impossible to hand bottle feed 30 or 40 + baby’s in the morning and get to the shelter by 8am or in the 1 hour lunch break I was given. Tube feeding was quick and everybody had full belly till I got home. We both know dehydration makes babies (or any animal) have no interest in eating or drinking and can die quickly because it is a viscous cycle. Once a young animal gets even slightly hydrated again most start drinking and eating again quite quickly and it does not take much for this to happen. Once she was eating solid food then maybe a attempt could of been made to put her back with her troop possibly with with her mother or another female that lost her baby but was still lactating. I just had to ask you WHY with the kind heart and knowledge you have, why didn’t you step in to give Charlotte a chance. At the very least show the, I am sure the very heartbroken family some very basic things they could of done, such as tube feeding or Sub Q fluids? You don’t have to answer because you may have your own personal reasons but it has bothered me so much for weeks I just had to ask?? Why not help her live or at least give her a chance to live when you had the knowledge to do so??
@@ArrozMarisco360 Your correct, nothing could of fixed that but a primate pediatric board certified Neurosurgeon and I don’t think there are any of those just walking around. : - ). Thanks for the info.
The stupid humans should have kept the monkey or put it in a sanctuary of some type. Stupid morons to think giving it back to the mother monkey who didn’t want it in the first place was gonna take it back! And did they not think a kidnapper would snatch it up? They were/are living in a delusional world !
The people that first rescued Charlotte could not keep her as it is illegal in HK and comes with a hefty fine and jail time for having her in their home. Also, the only sanctuary that would have taken her stated they would have to euthanize her. So, with the reality of what to do, this couple that found her and AM did the best they could to help Charlotte go back to her troop and was hoping her mom would take her back. Unfortunately, nature is cruel.
@@kimberlygarrish205 It’s illegal in most countries and yet there are thousands of videos that come out of these countries and the countries do absolutely nothing to stop it. I know many in Cambodia where it is illegal as well as Vietnam and Indonesia. It should be banned in ALL countries in my opinion. These are wild animals. Much like the ones that they used to have back in the 1970s where people were exploiting all kinds of exotic pets. People in California are still allowed to have some exotic pets and I think that is absolutely horrendous as most are abandoned down the road anyway. We as a society need to ban all WILD animals and only be allowed to have domesticated animals ONLY.
She was accepted by her troop and family but not her mom Elaine. Elaine is one of the matriarchs of Skull Head. Eye Shadow is also a matriarch but a low ranking one of Skull Head. The troop member that got Charlotte and would not let her go so she could eat or allow Eye Shadow to nurse her was the son of one of the other matriarchs of Skull Head. Skull Head has 5 wives.
what a sin! Eyeshadow tried to get her. That male had a few screws loose. I wish there had been some way to get Charlotte from him . Thinking of orphans I wonder what ever happened to puppy mom! She seemed very sweet
Truman’s wrapped Charlotte in baby clothes, blankets and coats. Then after 14 days they took it all away: diapers, baby clothes and blankets. Bottles. Regular feedings then gave her back to a wild troop who knows nothing except being fed by humans so they can have more babies on a food system that requires imports to survive. All humans have done by feeding them is exacerbate an already difficult situation. Babies who are abandoned usually die. That’s the truth.
Arroz I know you care very much for these monkeys and watching Charlotte's sad and horrifying story here again I can definately see (even through my inexperienced amateur eyes) things done to Charolette that might bother you now. I know I do not understand (yes I realize the goal of reentry into the forest was foremost in everyone's minds), why she was taken from the safe loving home she grew strong and happy in to be thrown back into that calous rough environment she had been completely abandoned in from the second she took her first breath! A place she had lost the will to live in those cold hours helpless and crawling around looking for her Mama or any living being to grab onto! Why take her from the Mama she obviously had imprinted on and put her back there? It seems death from abandonment at birth or asking a vet to put her to sleep back then might have been more humane option considering the harsh cruelty she experienced from her own kind and her crying out in vain for her human Mama before her final death? I have had this situation on my mind since I watched the story weeks ago. If you too feel pain and regret you are only human and a thoughtful caring person! Just do us all a big favor...this situation or 1 like it is going to happen again! Don't run from it! Get a plan in place that will support those horrible tough situations! Please do not return a little Charolette to the wild in that same way ever again. You are smart and resourceful, you have contacts and there are people you know that would help! The only way to truly heal from this (I think) is to do it way better (successfully)next time! Thank you for all you do! You are truly wonderful! Love, Sarah
I'm sure your sentiment is nice but in all reality, nothing else could have been done. The people that first rescued Charlotte could not keep her as it is illegal in HK and comes with a hefty fine and jail time for having her in their home. Also, the only sanctuary that would have taken her stated they would have to euthanize her. So, with the reality of what to do, this couple that found her and AM did the best they could to help Charlotte go back to her troop and was hoping her mom would take her back. Unfortunately, nature is cruel.
Almost everything you have written is totally ignorant. 1) it’s illegal to keep monkeys as pets in Hong Kong 2) Arroz was just trying to help the actual people that took Charlotte out of the road. It wasn’t his decision or place to demand anything. 3) Arroz didn’t return Charlotte to the wild, the people that took her did. In future I suggest you get your facts right before posting a load of uneducated, ignorant opinions.
HK does not allow people to keep pet monkeys so release was really the only option. Keeping her until she could feed herself was not an option as she would have been to humanized to rejoin her troop. Bottom line their was NO GOOD OPTIONS AND IT IS HURTFUL to blame anyone for the tragic outcome. Shite happens and humans need to attempt to deal with it in a compassionate and loving way. We all wanted a happy outcome.
No, Gypsy has Koby now and her other kids are Kody, Knitty, Knotty, Kneely and an older girl. She had Kailey also who disappeared and hasn't been seen again.
@@debvit2353 These monkeys are intelligent enough to know when another member of their troop is in trouble in some way and try to comfort it and/or protect it.Especially a young one. Usually it's a female. But sometimes males surprise us. I have seen it many times on various videos, including on this channel where a male bachelor monkey followed a young female monkey who couldn't find her mother. He actually hugged her and patted her back to confort her! Several times she left him and he would follow her at distance. She would go back and he would hug and pat her again. My suspicion is the male who wouldn't release Charlotte "thought" he was protecting and comforting her. Unfortunately he does not have the mental capacity to understand while he was correct, the baby needed much more than he was capable of doing. That is nature! Beautiful, amazing and sometimes sad all at once.
@@mrflowergardener9596 Yes, that was the bachelor monkey and Teeny. I was a beautiful thing. I’m so glad Arroz caught it. Unfortunately for Charlotte, none of the monkeys picked her up after her mother deserted her right after the birth.
