How Bullet Weight Affects Speed And Recoil

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We built a new platform to test recoil and this is our first video with it. We shoot different loads with the only thing changing is the bullet weight. We measure the velocity and recoil to see just how much bullet weight alone has on felt recoil.
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Опубликовано:

20 апр 2023

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Комментарии : 84

@amorton94 Год назад

MDT really putting out the content lately!

@clyancey Год назад

Great job. Consider expanding on this test by now comparing the increase in recoil when you increase charge/velocity. For example, at what velocity does the lighter 130 equate to the recoil of the slower 140, and at that point what does the ballistics look like out to 1200 yards?

@hughjair133 Год назад

Just want to say I love the content you guys have been putting out lately. Stuff I’ve always wondered about but you’re putting in the work!

@MDTTAC Год назад

Thank you!!

@LuisC7 Год назад

Now THIS is real data collection, objective and truthful conclusions!!!! Thanks guys this is awesome for settling debates 😂

@imjmz 6 месяцев назад

I just love all the rocket scientists in here. You guys did what you set out to do and proved that the heavier the bullet, the harder it is going to kick and the quicker it will drop. Great Job!

@ryanpiper1722 Год назад

Would love to see same test only with the mdt muzzle breaks on and see the over lay of graphs

@aaron5270 Год назад

This looks like so much fun. I would wager the two measurement systems would be proportional.

@ericdincauze3984 Год назад

Great information guys! 👍🏻

@lokvik4755 Год назад

I love these. There are so many opinions and myths in shooting. This is good science.

@DaKidd89 Год назад

I love videos like this, thank you.

@Krystofilus Год назад

Cool info. Thanks!

@fattigla Год назад

This is what happens when you give state of the art equipment to someone who is obsessed with perfection. 😊Great video!

@TransRights6969 Год назад

Subscribed!

@elendal Год назад

Great video, I can read about it and speculate but its's great to see with your own eyes.

@privatepadilla Год назад

It would be interesting to see some sort of a measurement of the recoil impulse, plotted over time like a dyno. I know that's a lot to ask, just throwing it out as an idea for content down the road. Loving the recent flow content coming from y'all.

@j6077xxd 6 месяцев назад

Hear hear. It's the impulse acceleration of the recoil that matters, that determines the feel of the recoil shove.

@GAMarine137 Год назад

Nice work

@Shifty681 Год назад

Hi Great Video very interesting i would have loved to see also some different loads with the same bullets and a % Graph how much percent the recoil increased from bullet to bullet.

@Tacticaldynamicsforce Год назад

New follower here. Great video 📹 👍 👏.

@MDTTAC Год назад

Thanks for watching!

@ericbergfield6451 Год назад

Fun channel, I subbed the first video I came across, like a year ago.

@markwillard4133 11 месяцев назад

On the 136 gr. 6.5 creedmoor round what brand of powder and how many grains did you use and what primmer was used to get these results and what is the weight of the rifle used. Keep making these veidos I love what you do and can't wait to see the next one.

@iluvstrats2864 Год назад

Going from 190smk in 300wm to 230atips I noticed a bit more recoil but the recoil impulse felt slower than the 190s and made spotting hits easier.

@sandflea2424 Год назад

More of a push than a sharp jab. Took some friends out shooting water jugs with a 45/70 with several boxes of shells. A few different 300gr, 325 and 405. Most thought the 405 was like a 4-10 shot push and more comfortable than the 325. I've often wondered how the difference in weight would effect the recoil. Shooting from various positions I've found myself from time to time touching one off with the butt plate on my collar bone.

@iluvstrats2864 Год назад

@@sandflea2424 Same with shooting 185gr 45 acp. MOre muzzle flip than the slow push of 230's. Interesting playing around with different weights. SHooting the 300 off a tripod is a piece of cake with a slower recoil.

@ewathoughts8476 Год назад

Recoil is not just bullet speed and weight. Along with those 2 factors there is the amount of gas generated and the rate the gas escapes (assuming 100% burn) after bullet exit. At that point you have a short duration rocket engine. A heavier bullet keeps the gas constrained longer and usually results in a higher pressure at the muzzle. There are existing formulas for calculating recoil, and they all take into account the weight of the propellant, and one takes into account the type of propellant.

@RimfireAddicted70 Год назад

Correct! Powder choice will make a dramatic affect on recoil as burn rates create different pressure curves and different volumes of gas given the same measured amount. While their test is good for RU-vid its data is one sided, lacking all the other variables making it useless. Change your scope..you changed the recoil felt, the list is endless of what affects the end result here.

@joeschuster2837 Год назад

also weight of rifle, powder burn rate and alot of other things

@j6077xxd 6 месяцев назад

Oh, you built it!

@adenholmes Год назад

I think you’re gonna need to redo the muzzle brakes to determine if this is the same as the previous rig. But I never doubted the other one 😂

@user-pw4se6rc4o Год назад

I did some more arithmetic on this and included the kinetic energy (1/2mass*velocity^2). The bullet mass and recoil are 100% proportional, both changed by ~ 10% in your test. The energy, however, is only 50% proportional and in your test increased by only 5%. INTERESTING ...

@rasmusreimer4776 9 месяцев назад

Would be awesome to see a video with supressors effect on recoil, eg recoil reduction compare to muzzle brakes, or just a comparison between different sizes of supressors

@mcnivenjjm Год назад

Are you going to re-do the muzzle break test with this new rige? I would watch that.

@vernongandy9026 Год назад

I'm curious. What if you put a 175# weight on the sled. You could also try using isolation springs for HVAC equipment, they are made for specific weights.

@abdurrahmaanmohamed6757 Год назад

Love the color on the acc What is the name of the cerekote??

@tylerogilvie2274 Год назад

I wonder how additional freebore would help or change due to it decreasing pressure in the case

@user-ge5kg6nq2w Год назад

I would like to see a similar test but comparing same bullet with different cartridges with and without a brake. I have heard some anecdotal evidence that say a 6 dasher and a 6 creedmore don't have much different recoil with a brake due to the brake being able to work more efficiently with the extra gas from the 6 creedmor vs less gas and less velocity with a 6 br or the like

@xphunter24 Год назад

Thanks for the video. I would like to see the test again, when running close to a max load for each bullet weight. That would be more typical of what folks do when loading. I think you guys used the very same powder charge for each different bullet weight (unless I am mistaken) in this video. I do not know of anyone who uses the very same charge weight in both a 130 grain and a 153.5 grain bullets.

@bforney1984 Год назад

Agreed... You'd almost have to pick a weak load for the 136 to stay under an overpressure load for the 153. Admittedly, I shoot a 260, not a 6.5CM but this has been my experience. Could also be why they didn't mention the powder charge if the heavier pills had stupid high charge weights relative to bullet weight.

@zerojin2 Год назад

흥미롭고, 정교한 실험 결과를 보여 주셔서 감사합니다

@jiajianhou426 Год назад

use this rig to test your 2 muzzle brakes vs competitors? that'll be very very extremely useful!!

@otterconnor942 Год назад

You feel momentum, the target feels energy

@jeffcraft4440 10 месяцев назад

great work and idea's. now lets see if brakes change group size.

@michaelhill6451 Год назад

The reason that recoil goes up with heavier bullets has nothing to do with "built up energy", in fact, the maximum muzzle energy for heavier bullets, for a particular power, is less than it is for lighter bullets. The reason recoil is higher for loads with heavier bullets is due to the fact the heavier bullet has more momentum. Recoil is simply the result of conservation of momentum. The momentum of the rifle is equal to the momentum of the bullet and powder but in the opposite direction, which is what we experience as recoil. The equation for kinetic energy is 1/2*m*v^2 and the equation for momentum is m*v. If you want to double energy with velocity, you only need to increase the velocity by the square root of 2. In that case, the momentum/recoil only goes up by the square root of 2. If you want to double energy using mass you have to double the mass (which doubles the momentum/recoil). In other words, for the same muzzle energy, loads with heavier bullets will always have more recoil.

@exposingamerica7378 Год назад

Can u do this but with different calibers and use graphs at the end

@oh2566 3 месяца назад

Good stuff. Weird it is different for pistol?

@acushley1 Год назад

I watched this video last weekend with my dad and while it is interesting, it is not a realistic comparison because ammunition with different bullet mass (for a respective caliber) does not use the same amount of charge. While it is true that a heavier bullet will be slower and have more recoil, it is exaggerated in this test and the results won't be accurate. There is an inverse relationship between bullet mass and charge used to keep the energy (and pressure) within safe levels in the barrel. When you substitute a heavier bullet with a charge meant for a lighter bullet, you are reducing the volume in the case (to maintain overall cartridge length). If you leave the exact same amount of powder in the case with this reduced volume, the pressure must go up, most likely to a dangerous level. The outlier from the factory ammo is because all of their hand loads must be loaded with the amount of charge specified for the heaviest bullet or there would have been over-pressure problems in the lighter bullets. Either way, they were not loaded properly. If loaded to spec, I'd expect to see a weaker relationship with outliers (or nodes) that give peak velocity with corresponding anomalies in the recoil.

@rv-14ctrl 2 месяца назад

I think that running this test with a charge per bullet that gives the same pressure would be much more interesting as if I were to use a lighter bullet I would put more powder behind it. Then, with basically everyone using brakes or suppressors these days, it would be more usefult to have them on...

@MDTTAC 2 месяца назад

Fair point

@doejohn8674 Год назад

Would have been interesting to plot recoil vs muzzle energy and muzzle momentum.

@Karza_357 Год назад

I did some back of the envelope calculations dividing kinetic energy with distance travelled and got a "power index" of sorts 8.01 (120gr) 9.94 (136gr) 9.83 (140gr) 9.72 (143gr) 9.73 (146gr) 9.41 (153.5gr) Also the loads weren't comparable in terms of kinetic energy (KE=1/2*(mv^2)) (2685, 3322, 3337, 3373, 3413, 3503 Joules) These results seem a bit inconsistent with the conclusion of "heavy bullet increases recoil" I would say that the recoil is dependent purely on the kinetic energy of the bullet leaving the barrel. (newton's 3rd law and no reciprocating mass to complicate the recoil impulse) But math isn't my strong suit, please correct me if i made errors or false conclusions.

@joeschuster2837 Год назад

there is a recoil table out on the internet that gives felt recoil in foot pounds felt at the shoulder, simple math formula. i used this formula when patenting a recoil reduction chassis that i build ie, a 300 win mag recoils like a 243, you also forgot weight of the rifle effects recoil, joe schuster, wicked truth arms

@WayStedYou Год назад

How did they forget when they are using the same rifle for the test? The rifle weight never changed.

@shootinbruin3614 Год назад

Pressure limits aside, using a faster powder will also reduce recoil with a bare muzzle, all other things being equal. When the bullet leaves the barrel, the crown becomes in effect a very short duration impulse rocket. Given the same bullet and velocity, a faster powder reduces pressure (and potentially ejecta mass) at the muzzle, in turn reducing its contribution to the rifle's rearward momentum. Arresting and redirecting propellant gas is how muzzle brakes work, which is why slower powder increases their effectiveness.

@renzocoppola4664 Год назад

A faster powder will increase recoil due to increased bullet speed OR faster powders increase peak pressure, and lower peak pressure duration, so lower bullet speed. I couldnt tell what would happen, but most importantly it affects bullet speed that contributes the most to recoil. I would guess that a shorter barrel should get more recoil from gas.

@shootinbruin3614 Год назад

@@renzocoppola4664 If the same charge and bullet weight are maintained, a faster powder will both increase recoil AND velocity. But that's not what I was saying.

@renzocoppola4664 Год назад

Max loads should be more of a use case, as barrel length exacerbates recoil from heavier bullets. Heavier bullets increase the explosiveness of gunpowder (due to less case space and a bigger peak pressure). Also, you can't really isolate bullet weight as a parameter, unless a long enough barrel is used, (longer barrels are more efficient for lighter bullets).

@renzocoppola4664 Год назад

Anyway. Anything is useful for measuring momentum and energy. What's most important is how gunpowder gas affects recoil, and bullet weight affects recoil. A bunch of loads, barrel lenghts, and bullet weights should be what's useful to isolate every or almost every factor.

@renzocoppola4664 Год назад

Lighter bullets can be proppeled with more powder, because peak preassures are lower. There's more energy that would transform into recoil, and also more gas. Though it's obvious a heavier bullet would cause more recoil, that's not the debate. It's about how much would affect recoil given a standard caliber.

@JamesRMills1 Год назад

Welcome to physics 😊 may I suggest Issac Newton to begin good sir.

@aussieexpat Год назад

If you graph energy I wonder how closely that tracks your recoil results.

@dylanholbrook6239 Год назад

That's the actual math. For a given barrel recoil is a direct function of force. Speed and weight. Like 9mm the most forcefully round is generally a 124gr and will generally be the most recoil. And 147 are generally he least energy. It holds true also, as bullet weight increases in this test so dose energy ft/lb. He didn't have a projectile that was too heavy or took up too much of the case like 147gr 9mm. 120gr=1979.64 // 136gr =2450.97 // 153.5gr= 2585.32. That didn't line up with his velocity philosophy so he mites the 120gr because it was fast but did not make the recoil more because it did not have more energy. Also recoil should be measured in ft/lb not distance too many variables like friction on that rig. He needs a compression force gauge behind the riffle

@aussieexpat Год назад

@Dylan Holbrook im wondering if it isnt as simple as measuring bullet energy. Ultimately its about PSI at the bolt face x area of the bolt face x time. Because powder burns slowly and is also propelled down the barrel, the psi at the base of the bullet might be higher than the psi at the bolt face? And friction as you said..

@dylanholbrook6239 Год назад

@@aussieexpat the psi will be same at bolt face as the projectile rear. Psi is a function of energy and volume. The higher psi will push the bullet further faster making more square inches in the barrel and less psi. Velocity is a direct result of psi. However a lighter bullet will move faster, reducing the psi faster. The difference in psi should be a very direct result of projectile energy (weight and speed). More psi = more energy. And forces having a equal and opposite reaction. The point you raise would be more about barrel length maintaining the energy for a longer period. A compression gauge is a set distance with a set resistance. The sled he made is only distance, duration, and friction. The heavier bullet is should, according my theory, cause the riffle to move further back at a slower speed of it had the same projectile energy as a lighter bullet who would move it faster for a shorter duration. Shock force vs duration of force. Shock force is what you will feel. Roller delayed vs direct blowback would be a good example.

@aussieexpat Год назад

@Dylan Holbrook what im saying is that think about the moment just before the bullet leaves the barrel. There is powder burning just behind the bullet (also traveling at the bullets speed) creating a localized higher pressure just behind the bullet. This higher pressure is supported by the velocity of the air and the pressure from the barrel sidewalls. This localized pressure may never be felt by the bolt face. This would explain discrepancies between different loads, where bullet muzzle energy doesn't translate directly into felt recoil.

@aussieexpat Год назад

@Dylan Holbrook but i also 100% agree, that humans seem to call / percieved peak force to be "recoil" rather than total rearward energy. Thisbis certainly true about injuries in a car crash. So increasing T will decrease "recoil".

@dan2304 Год назад

M1V1 = M2V2 but the mass of the gas and bullet in M1, and velocity of gas and bullet in V1.

@BloodEagle. Год назад

These recoil tests are kind of misleading I would think. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a force meter on the buttstock up against something solid since felt recoil is measured in ft/lbs of force to the shooter? You could throw a 5.56 in the sled, show it recoiling however far back and people don't know what that actually means. Some people might misinterpret the rifle moving far back on the sled as "felt recoil" when there isn't really any recoil with said 5.56 in in ft/lbs.

@landothecommando2632 Год назад

At what point is pushing a lighter bullet faster better than pushing a heavier (better BC) bullet slower? or is it ever?

@Rolley189 Год назад

The "D" word....

@K-bob_45 11 месяцев назад

Look at G7 form factor. Berger lists these. An easy example would be a 168 hybrid target vs a 185 classic hunter. The 168 had a better form factor and will fly more efficiently. On the other hand you could compare the 180 elite hunter to the 168 hybrid. The 180 elite has the better form factor this time so it will fly better. The real answer to determine which is better is probably just going to come down to which one your rifle shoots better.

@paulmccoy8966 Год назад

Do this with 300 win mag!!

@K-bob_45 11 месяцев назад

Probably not building more pressure. Probably accelerating that heavier bullet for a longer duration of time.

@e7tegt503 Год назад

Shoulda used the turd brake. Your data would have been more on point.

@TAR3N Год назад

I though recoil is measured in lbs ? Wouldn’t a scale be more accurate?

@rodneyharrison7107 15 дней назад

Do a 7mm do a 30-06 a young child can handle the recoil of a 6.5 . With any bullet

@meisenhut31 Год назад

Wouldn't the most realistic way to test recoil be to hold the rifle in place and measure the force over time at the butt stock with a load cell? That seems like the closest to what a real shooter would feel.

@rubennasser6907 Год назад

You guys are rediscovering the wheel? What's wrong with free recoil calculations? You could at least compare your results with theoretical (no friction on the rifle, and guessed powder gas velocity) data.

@adamjensen8112 Год назад

im begging you to start your graphs at zero, or at least show that graph in addition to the zoomed in one

@dirtydan3029 2 месяца назад

A 100 fps difference is not consistent at all. You also never mentioned what powder and how much you are using and what primers you used. We cant use this info at all its garbage