How can one turntable sound better than another? 

Well said! A breath of fresh air! Thank you. I’m just a average guy and on a fixed income! I spent 500.00 for a Fluance RT85. I love this turntable. My amp cost me 170.00 and my speakers were 400.00. I’m happy. I will bet that the audiophiles are going crazy over your video. I applaud you and thank you. Keep up your videos.

Thank you sir! It’s a breath of fresh air listening to you. The word practical has been lost in our present day world. My turntable is a JVC JL-40. I’ve had it since new. It’s a great turntable. Back in the 70s when I bought it, it was I guess a mid level unit. It works for me. Has never let me down, and sounds great. I’m 72 years old now. My hearing is not what it was when I was in my 20s when I purchased the JVC. No reason to replace it. Even though I’ve thought about it. No, I think I’m going to go for a new cartridge. Thanks for your practical approach to hi fi. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the shaving advice. I tried it today and my stubble has a much richer and deeper bass.

That's not a rant, that's just thoughtful and sensible. It all boils down to what you enjoy and how you do it. Some people want to buy bragging rights with super expensive audio/brewing equipment? Fine for them. I'll enjoy my own setups, humble though they may be. ("Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew" is a great motto to live by!) All the best from the Netherlands, John

Leaving the dust cover open when playing makes a difference on my turntable (when playing loud music). If it's down, low notes can make it vibrate and feedback to the cartridge. Static can be very difficult to control in low humidity. I found that cleaning the record on the platter with a grounded carbon-fiber brush helps a lot. Grounding is important! I have a Sony PS-X75 turntable that I bought, I think, in 1982. It has several unique features that gave it noticeably better performance than my previous (pretty good) turntable. It has a computer controlled "Biotracer" arm that responds up to 10 Hz. So, like a camera lens stabilizer, it gets rid of low frequency sounds like people jumping on a wood floor in the room or bumping the cabinet. It tracks warped records flawlessly. It also has a magnetic head under the platter that compares the speed to a quartz clock and adjusts. Here's the problem. The processor chips in these turntables fail at a high rate. They are unobtainium. This may be due to bad caps in the PS. The lubricants dry out and may cause the motors to draw more current. Due to "stuff," I haven't used the table in six years. I need to re-cap and re-lubricate everything in it before I use it. The turntable was not designed to be serviced, so it will be a challenge. If it works, great. If not, I've read that someone replaced the processor with a Teensy++ 2 micro-controller (with lots of time spent programming). Some old gear is worth repairing.

There's always gains to be had in such a mechanical system that come with advances etc in engineering. It's an incredibly simple concept but not being able to afford a fancy thing doesn't mean there's not value in a fancy thing to the person who finds it to be a benefit to their sound. As we all know, advances in build/engineering/price get into the sphere of demising returns, but there's nothing wrong with deciding your own place on that ascending ladders of price to performance. As mentioned, it's an incredibly fine device reading the incredibly fine vibrations in a spinning disc and turning them into incredibly fine voltages amplified many times to make music happen. Little things matter. A transformer vibrating away, a bearings smoothness, the ability for a tonearm to present a cartridge such that the needle can be presented at the right geometry relative to the tiny wiggles in a groove that represent sound. That little needle has a hell of a job and it's a testament to our age when modestly priced gear can do the job happily. That needle we hate to touch or drop etc has to guide the arm round an entire record and keep itself deep in the groove making wiggles, the poor thing. The chain after the record player, amplifiers, speakers, the room and speaker placement therein, etc etc. Everything matters. IIt's just a case of finding your own place in that accumulation of bits and pieces. Getting into vinyl shouldn't be expensive, but neither should it be capped at whatever price point one person believes is the best anyone could reasonably need. Of course more expensive gear, chosen wisely for the engineering that money pays for, can produce increases in "performance" of a mechanical device like this. That doesn't mean it's essential, nor does it mean it's irrelevant. For a first turntable - Try it at any price, the price you feel you can afford. There's always better (and different) out there, and if you want to strive for it go for it, love the process and journey. If you love the sound out of the first player / cartridge / phono stage you try, then play that sound you love and be happy. There's a place for everyone in the hobby of listening to music.

The saying is an audiophile spends money to listen to the perfect sound, whereas an audio fan spends money to get loads of good music to listen to.

@Vinyl TV: Even if I wasn't particularly interested in the subject matter, I'd still love this video because you have an excellent way of cutting through the bullshit. You present your arguments well. I'm clicking the Subscribe button.

I don't know about you, but when I shave in the downstairs bathroom the bass response from my turntable increase dramatically.😉

Thank you for this video. I've been using the same Pioneer PL-S30 turntable that my parents got me in the mid-1980's. I have never replaced it. Over the years, three things made a significant improvement in my record listening experience. 1. Figuring out how to adjust the speed. (It ran fast from the factory.) 2. Switching to an Audio-Technica AT-95E cartridge (now with an ATN95EX stylus) 3. Getting a Pro-ject Record Box E phono amp. That's it. I've always adjusted the counterweight correctly. The cartridge is properly aligned. I change the belt every few years. The anti-skate still works. The auto-return still works. I can switch from 33rpm to 45rpm with the touch of a button. Why change?

Very thoughtful and interesting. I replaced the cartridge and stylus on my turntable and did notice a sonic improvement.

Great video! I couldn't have said it better myself. I am exactly like you. Back in the 70s I bought "higher end" equipment, and enjoyed playing my music. Flash forward 45 years or so to today, and I am getting back into this as a hobby. Wow! It seems that no matter what you look into these days there are the "snobs" and know-it-alls out there ready to rip you for what you have. Record players, cartridges, cars, cameras - you name it. It's crazy. It's as if "they" want to make you feel inadequate for their pleasure. Unfortunately I have let "them" bother me to the point where I have unsubscribed to many of the web sites. Or, I will stay subscribed just to ask questions now and then. There are still folks out there that like to trade ideas or help - and I try to help out when I can= , but too many times the "experts" or folks with mean spirited comments, or people who just throw out wrong answers, will jump in and . . . . Well, you know what I mean. Anyway, keep on playing those records and tapes and enjoying them. :)

I tested my turntable by playing a record on it, it sounded good so it's good.

To me, this man is 1000 times more helpful than all of those audio experts with expensive equipment that are out there. Yes, I don´t blame them for they have, yes that´s awesome you pretty superior and amazing set up, but a lot of people are interested in smart, not sleazy guidance in buying the product for reasonable prize when began doing this hobby. Myself being a beginner to stereo set - up, whole technology about vinyl spinning, and this man helped and saved me a lot of money!

I recently bought a 40 year old Technics SL3200 from Goodwill for $40. After spending a peaceful afternoon carefully disassembling, cleaning and lubricating it, then replacing the fixed RCA cables with sockets on the back (the cables were all chewed up), and installing a new cartridge, I have a wonderful 'new' turntable that sounds every bit as good as any other turntable I've ever had, and far nicer - to me - than any of the new units I see on sale today for 10 times the price. This thing is solidly built and is ready for another 40 years of service, no pretense needed.

i am reviewer from a top UK magazine, and when i put a empty Walkers crisp packet on top of my closed record lid the bass just snaps into focus ohh it's phenomenal.

Before watching, I would say yes. It depends on the Cartridge, tracking, and electronics. And other factors. I will watch and see if I am right. P.S. the good thing about turntables is you can listen to stuff that was never released on CD or mp3. I listen to all formats.

This was a great video. Candidly, I wish I had seen this video before I upgraded my turntable. OTOH, I'm not sure how much of a difference it made. I am in the process of replacing my old system and upgrading everything to include a turntable. EBay provided me an opportunity to acquire a excellent condition Rega P3 with cart and the Neo2 power supply for the price of a P2. I upgraded everything: Delrin platter, aluminum sub platter, belts (dual), counterweight, feet, and cartridge. Did it make a difference? Yes, but the biggest difference came with the cartridge. The Neo and the sub-platter helped. Each stage of the upgrades seemed to add more detail, depth, soundstage, and overall presentation. In the end, I've resolved that the upgrades work as a team. So for slightly more that purchasing it new (turntable and Neo), I've got a turntable that competes well - and sometimes betters my high-end CD transport. Oh, did I mention the phono stage???? ........ I would like to end by saying that, IMHO, scaling your system is important matching components to suit your listening tastes and budget. There's something for everyone.

I am really serious in the vinyl hobby, but I just can't understand those people who think that a belt upgrade gives more bass. Love your channel, keep on with your great videos!

Thanks for all that common sense. There is far too much snake oil in audio. The problem is a lot of RU-vidrs are being paid, or gifted equipment, to spout rubbish. I like your lava lamp.

Still have my DD Hitachi from around 1980. It just never quit. It exceeds the capability of the source. I replace the cartridge with the same quality standard that it came with. I figure that Japanese engineers who designed it, knew how to optimize it. What has been the best upgrade? Cleaned/restored all of my LPs and continuous maintenance after the fact.

one of the best videos ever ;-) thanks so much for humor and validation...way to go!

The only thing I will mention is the ATLP120, mine had a noticeable rumble noise from the motor that the stylus did pick up (only barely, but it was there if I listened really hard during quiet parts of songs, but mostly I only heard it between tracks!), I only heard it on HEADPHONES at higher volumes (mostly in the silence between tracks or in very quiet parts of songs) then I would normally listen but there was a slight difference between that turntable and the DENON DP300F belt drive turntable I purchased from Best Buy for $200 (which was less than the ATLP120!) to compare the sounds to. As you mention in your video I had to listen at extreme volumes to notice any difference (and then I heard the rumble only between tracks really during the silence) but I was able to hear a slight difference. I sold the ATLP120 to a friend and he LOVES it, he does not hear the rumble himself mostly because he does not listen on HEADPHONES or at extreme volumes and he does not care much what the silence between tracks is supposed to sound like!

Hi there ...I love your rant . Your views and opinions are much along mine , so I really re-late . But as for feed back through the stylus/cartridge I had this problem with a Technics SL-1400 . The clear plastic dust cover was on two hinges and when the lid was lifted and the sound volume in my room increased I started to get serious feed back . So after much thought I came to realize that the raised cover was acting as a horn and sending the vibrations right back to the cartridge ,completing the Loop . After that I always removed the cover and placed it safely out of the way , and with this turntable I never had feed back no matter the volume of music being played . Just a note . If I closed the lid and played with medium to higher volume It would still feed back ,.So that is why i completely remove the lid . Thank you for sharing your knowledge in such a simple and down to earth fashion . DGR

Phono cartridge more significant than TT.

I love your channel and your videos. Keep it up sir and stay safe and healthy during this troublesome season

I very much enjoyed your rant. It all comes down to the cartridge. The thing reproducing the sound.

With something as microphonic as a turntable, the shelf it’s sitting on a can have a significant impact on how it sounds. shelves will resonate with the music, you really want to minimise that resonance. The fact that different materials and structures have different resonant frequencies can easily account for why two shelves may sound different. My deck just sits on top of an Ikea Kallax unit which is loaded with HIFI kit, vinyl and the unit itself sits on a solid floor, it sounds fine and I feel no need to invest further. In a previous home though, I needed a wall shelf to provide adequate isolation. WRT resonance control and material choices in turntables, everything makes a difference, trust me, my mid level Rega will kick the crap out of the Audio Techica or Fluance models. You get what you pay for, those entry level decks are fine what they cost and they will get you up and running but if you pay more, you will get more. The law of diminishing returns gradually creeps in the more you spend but the super wealthy will pay those crazy prices for the n’th degree of improvement.

First of all, what a sensible and down to earth video of the topic. I quite enjoyed and laughed a bit! There is so much information and also misleading information about turntables all over the internet. Your rant is definitely very clarifying and spot on! Thanks Craig!

I hope you realize that the rich high-end "audiophiles" help keep a lot of audio companies in business. They're the consumers that enable the innovation that gets handed down to the cheaper gear. Audio gear has been consistently sounding better over the years thanks (in part) to your friend that can drop $35,000 on a tonearm. Basic economics here:)

I think you put your point over very well . There are very small gains to be had for your bucks . And yes if I had a big house and a big bank account . I would purchase a big expensive Hi_FI. . Which would only make minor differences to the big sound. I love this video. Brilliant mate. G

I've watched so many videos on RU-vid about removing the preamp from the Audio-Technica. I happen to have the Audio-Technica AT-LP120USB. From what I have heard in comparison from this turntable with and without the preamp is marginal in sound quality. What I did hear the made me rethink about removing the preamp is a cartridge upgrade; this audio comparison made me changed my mind in what I should do... do not remove the preamp but just upgrade the AT-VM95E to the VM740ML -- this to me made all the difference in sound quality upgrade -- to me, this provided the absolute best upgrade in the overall sound quality without having to gut the preamp out of a perfectly good turntable. OK, I know that the upgrade costs far more than the cost of ripping out a preamp, but it is in the sound quality that makes the difference here. While the upgrade cartridge offers superior sound quality in the highs, it does it by design... not only does it provide superior sound quality, when seated perfectly, it reduces the effect of damage to your record that a cheaper needle may cause. If one only removes the preamp but keeps the cheaper, rounder cartridge and needle, the sound quality is only temporary, as the needle damages the record.

The platter makes a huge difference. So does the platter mat. I've had acrylic platters in the past and I wouldn't even use a platter mat. I'd just clamp the record straight to the platter. Now, I have a Technics 1100a and I use an acrylic mat. It's has better bass, better detail. Some mats muddy the sound. Also, tonearms can make a huge difference. I've been into the hobby for a few years and have had many turntables both vintage and modern. I think the cart and the phono stage are the most important. You can spend a ton or a little and still get great sound. Most of my gear is used. It's important to know which cart and phono stage will work good together. I have a Nagaoka MP150 cart that I just recently bought and it is still breaking in and sounding better and better. I have a Rega Brio-r integrated amplifier, but don't like the built in phono stage. I'm going to be purchasing a Schiit Mani phono stage. They are supposed to pair well with the cart I have. It's important to do research and patience is key. There's a lot of info online about great hi-fi sound without it having to break the bank. Be patient, save money, and you're happy. Again, buying used, you get great bang for your buck!!

I'm 70 and I still think Vinyl is Best . Still have My RTR as well . Keep up the good work Stud .

most of the time im drinking so i dont even care of all these audiophile goofiness

I watched Michael Fremer the other night. A classic snake oil salesman stating that a $5,000 power cord is a must and other crap like that. I got very sad but watching this video made me feel great. Thank you very much for your voice of reason and science!

i changed my bearing on my Garrard 401 and it made a massive difference tighter tolerance =better tracking, = better sound

I own the Adam Audio speakers with ribbon mids and ribbon tweeters. They sound so smooth and crystal clear its staggering. They have a air movement efficiency of 4-1 as opposed to piston type speaker with a 1-1 ratio. This along with the preamp is what I believe where you can get serious upgrades in sonic complexity and fullness. I can never go back without the ribbon system by Adam Audio.

I have a TEAC Model P-A688 full automatic that i bought back 1994. I played a ton of 45's/albums thru the years. Sounds great when played thru my SONY LBT-D159 sound system. 6 band EQ dual cassette tape player/recorder with a 5 CD carousel player. Luv it after all these yrs. Now i'll be replacing the stylus. I only paid $140 back in the mid 90's. My other player is a Crosley with CD burner /tape player. I use that to burn tunes on disc. Works good i know some people hate anything Crosley but really do'nt care for their opinions.

Why is it always guys that own $200 turntables who make this argument.... hmmmm

(disclaimer: I'm an audio noob!) Assuming the motor does vibrate (even if quiet), wouldn't the belt be able to conduct vibration onto the platter? And so a belt made of a material that dampens vibration would further reduce transmission of vibrations onto the platter? Of course if that is true (or potentially true) there is still the question of "is it noticeable? is it relevant? and if yes, is fixing it worth the cost?" I suspect the reason for those "luxurious upgrades" as well as the 33.5 vs 33.3 RPM, is the never ending search for absolute fine tuning and perfection some people enjoy tinkering towards, even when the gains are no longer noticeable for our ears. Where it gets silly is if someone makes such an improvement, ears no difference but will state otherwise xD then it's just sad. So I totally get your points :) for most people a $200 turntable will serve them super well. But I also get those who seek "perfection" at insanely out of portion pricing, perhaps even beyond what they can actually perceive. I mean certain listening room installments are like works of art imo. What I hope will be possible is to buy an upgrade, try it and really listen for improvements, and if I hear no improvements just return it and get my money back :P because ultimately... that's all that matters: does it sound better? and if yes, are you willing to pay X to make it sound that better?

I've had two turntables in my life-- both have a great reputation: Thorens TD160 and a Linn LP12. I can't tell the difference between them or any other turntable. The first one, I got talked into by a salesman. The Thorens was a pain in the ass-- a ridiculously heavy table that took forever to reach start up speed and did not have an auto shut off function-- woke up in the middle of the night countless times with the dame thing still spinning in the out take groove. The Linn which is revered and expensive I bought used for $200. from the little old lady down the street whose husband passed 10 years earlier. It works and makes the record go around.

I've been researching turntables for a couple weeks now and was about to buy something I probably couldn't afford..until I found this video..I had a feeling there was alot of fuckery in this market. Thank god someone with knowelage shared there honest opinion. Thank you!

I use one AT LP120 USB Turntable with marantz PM6006 Amp and GoldenEar Technology Triton Five floorstanding speakers and I'm very happy with the clarity, fidality and details of the sounds from my records. Thanks. Monir.

I ran a factory in Texas where we made phonograph records. This job included quality control. I went to a studio in Dallas where they created the nickel stampers, or mounds if you prefer. From the acetate discs. They had a turntable that tonearm weight and anti skating were controlled by weights floating in oil. It was a heck of a rig, very accurate but I couldn't tell the difference.

Straightforward logic thinking.. 🙄 Outstanding... thanks 👍👏👊🏻

Thank You so much for your wise advice! So often, I see turntable experts and older collectors suggesting the most-expensive, 'audiophile' components to their young, novice audience. I have the AT-LP 120 and I upgrade as and when I need to. The default headshell/needle isn't amazing, but I'll upgrade it eventually. If I listened to half of these RU-vid 'experts', I would have easily spent $3,000 on tiny upgrades that make a negligible difference, if at all!

Fluance and AT (and other brands) come from the same factory in Taiwan I believe.

Love your videos and I couldn't agree more. There is such a thing as being over engineered for the requirements of the task, or its inherent limitations. I mean come on we're playing a $25 record actually about 5 cents worth of plastic. Some recordings are very good but as you pointed out in your video, (Re-masterd, Re-issued, Re think it?) there are quality variations and issues inherent to the process and the medium. I don't deny that a $250,000 turntable has the ability to play back more accurately and without distortion, vibration, etc.. - BUT - If the level of precision exceeds the level of the recording equipment and more importantly the distributed playback medium then yeah, what's the point. I look at it like this. If I have a $500 1080p TV and you have a top of the line $10,000 4K OLED TV with DOLBY VISION and we are watching vhs tapes your picture will be no better than mine as both TV's exceed the capacity of the recording, likewise upgrading to an 8K $30,000 TV will not make the picture any better either. Will a $35,000 tone arm reduce vibration from the stylus. YUP! Will I hear the difference? NOPE Not for me and 99% of people. The microscopic vibrations will be drowned out by such noisy things as heating and AC, the refrigerator cycling on, computer fans, other people doing their thing like the dishes or singing along with the record not to mention the traffic noise going up and down the street.

I have 3 turntables a Fisher DD w/ Ortofon M10 from the '80s, Technics SL-BD26 from the '70s with Ortofon OM10, and a Thorens TD-160C w/ Shure V15III from the '70s (I still have the receipt for $276 for the turntable and cart). I also have a VPI Prime w/ Ortofon 2MBronze due to arrive tomorrow. 4 different styles and different levels of turntable. Funny thing, the 3 I currently use all sound great. The Thorens wins hands down overall but the other 2 are no slouches and provide excellent reproduction. The 2 things that have made the biggest overall improvement to sound quality: 1- I swapped in a Project tube Box S2 with the Thorens (remember this is almost 50yr old equipment) replacing the phono stage in my Yamaha RX-A1080 and what sounded excellent went to fantastic. 2- I always kept my records clean but I had an itch to try an ultrasonic cleaner recently bought one. This too made a huge difference. I have been shocked at the amount of debris that has come out of "clean records" and settled to the bottom of the tank. Again I have experienced a boost in the quality of the playback. It's been a long road from the '60s to 2021 and I've learned many things along the way: - Do the best you can and enjoy! The name of the game having fun and enjoying the music. - There is a point where you reach diminishing returns for $$$ spent. If you want it and can afford and get it and enjoy it, but don't stick your nose up those who may be at a different level. - Just because it is "Vintage" doesn't mean it is quality. Much of the vintage gear I see people showing off was entry-level back in the day. Last summer I went through my HK-870 power amp ('84), it was mid-fi back then. It was still working fine but solder joints were going bad as were areas on the circuit board,, I/O jack were cracked, and transistor dielectric grease was dried up, all needed repair. If you go the "Vintage" whether for a turntable or electronics, go through it before putting it into service. Equipment ages and believe it or not sellers exaggerate (to say the least)

Very good and realistic advices from your videos and helpful information as well , and addition that you are a musician and working with a lot of sound and record equipment, your ears are the best tool to give us that kind of knowledge thank you keep doing a great job I’m from El Salvador and for me are very interesting videos to watch!

In my experience, I did have a direct-drive turntable that introduced noise, specifically an AT120LP-USB, The motor added a "cogging" noise as it pumped the DD motor to maintain the rotational speed. When I contacted Audio Technica, they dismissed my concerns because - and they actually said this - it was a DJ turntable. So I dismissed A-T and bought a Fluance RT85. I'm very pleased with my Fluance. Later, I needed to convert an LP to digital, so I brought the A-T back out. This time I added a heavy AT618 disk stabilizer to help keep the LP flat, and the additional mass helped to maintain the rotational speed, and there was no longer any cogging noise at all. Just sayin'.

Love the scarf in the background!

15:29 yeah, may the beer be with you 🙂 27:07 🍺🍻 20:50 aha, I've heard a similar resonance of a similar dotted technics' platter, but on the speakers thru the amplified signal from the needle connected with the phonearm, it was when the needle was sitting on a vinyl disc at rest, without any rotation, and a disc was on a technics-default rubber mat, and it was very and very loud thru the speakers, the needle cartridge was stanton groove master, a blue-striped first-version one

The difference between thirty three and a third and 33 1/2 is noticeable to some people. Most turn tables that are just slightly above the bargain basement price range have an optical strobe speed control with the pitch adjustment on the control panel. I have a Technics SL-D30 and I can assure you a slight difference in speed does change the pitch of the sound for me. Keep in mind I am talking about (like you said) a 300$ turntable. As for the shelf to set your amp on, there could be a SLIGHT difference if the amp has disk capacitors in the signal path...most amps past the super cheap ones don't. I work on tube guitar amps and so I am somewhat familiar with the components used in electronics. Disk caps are many time micro phonic. Meaning if they are vibrated they will pass that vibration down the signal path. Keep in mind only the really really cheap amps might actually have a disk cap in the signal path, still there might an argument for setting your amp on a thin rubber mat to dampen any feedback created from the speakers. Having said all that I completely agree with everything else you presented. First for me...buy the BEST speakers you can afford, skimp on the rest if you need to. For turn tables buy the best cartridge you can afford and buy a turntable with the optical strobe speed adjustment and have a blast!! Thanks for the video!!

I'd like to say THANK-YOU! for your insight I always had a feeling about all those fancy tone arms ,the crazy exspensive turntables with like you said motors on separate tables ,gigantic isolation feet costing an arm and a leg L mean I have not many turntables in my past but what I got was at time what I could afford I had technics ,pioneers and my last was an Onkyo CP-1055II which was my favorite and my last which I still have but now the cuing when end of record does not rise causing it to scrape record it is over 30 years I switched to a audio tech ATLP-120 which I like but it is not automatic which my last one was as to preamp to me I have not tried to disconect yet it sounds alright to me the highs are crisp maybe it is equalizer I use since I've had one all my life I like to taylor my music , so as to hear voice a little more and certain instruments that you usually do not hear when equalizer is not present but I am glad you made this video for a while I thought I was wrong thinking your way but it is good to know you explained this very well !!!! JRo

Great video. For most people out there a second hand vintage turntable and amp will be perfectly acceptable.

I think you are on the right track with most of this a few years back i woukd have agreed with all of your statement, but after upgrading carts preamps speakers subwoofers and amplifiers, I have seen good Turntables out of the ones i own that do color the sound some it has less influence than the Cartridge (most influence) or the preamp (2nd after the cart) but I have heard a difference personally. I have never bought a new Turntable all of my are vintage and all the ones I current use are direct drive with removable head shells. I don't think the coloring the turntable has isn't enough to change the whole nature of the sound of your setup but it can fight you and make your setup sound less good. So far out of my 3 technics and 4 pioneer tables all with half in cartridge mounts. The pioneers always sounds best with warmer carts like my Integra ADC and a warmer preamp like my project tube box DS2. The Technics on the other hand sound best with more neutral carts like my 2m red, black, and preamps like my DJ pretty II, and I have tried swapping carts and preamps to give my SLQ2 and SL1200 mk II to sound warmer and even though they do sound warmer they never sound good like my Pioneer PL-518 does with this SAME components and the reverse is true as well trying to give the PL518 and nuertral/accurate cart and preamp has the same result. The most important part I think is not fighting the nature of the table I have NO CLUE what part of the Turntable is coloring the sound but until I can find out what it is fighting it with Carts and Preamps just leeds to disappointing sound quality, But I DO NOT believe all that AudioFoolery about special belts and crap just get a solid used vintage table then play to it's strengths with preamp and carts, and don't give up on bargain like Yardsales Estate sales and Goodwill/thrift shops, I bought my SL1200MKII $18, SLQ2 $60, SLD2 $25, SLD33 $10, Pioneer PL7 $15, then another for $25, Dual CS515 $7 just keep looking

Back in 1982 I had a new dual 505 and a friend lent me his lp12 whilst he was on holiday. The bass was far better on the lp12 so I recorded my records onto tape using it. Even on tape I could hear the difference. I also had a pioneer pl12d and it was a bit worse than the dual. The dual also had really bad motor drone in quiet bits. There is a lot of hype about the lp12 and I was skeptical until I had one in my house for a weeks. It did sound amazing.

Absurd question. Anyone who thinks turntables sound alike is ignorant

Greetings from Ireland and hope your keeping well Craig - excellent informative presentation and on point - I’ve been listening to vinyl for over 40 years on and off and I’ve still got my JVC QLY66F turntable that I purchased new in 1986 and it’s still running like a Swiss watch - it was expensive back in 1986 but it’s stood the test of time - I decided to invest in a new modern turntable within a sensible budget circa below €1000 and there is a very wide choice of good quality turntables for that price point - and I pulled the trigger on a Project X1 - simplicity is divinity. I have to say Fluence was in second place then Rega and Audio Technica - stay safe for 2022 and hopefully it will mark the end of that dam virus 🦠

Great video, Craig - thanks for that. As far as the matter of vibration of arm and the resonant vibrations is concerned, I think that when both the ends of the arm are touching some surfaces, at the stylus point only node (zero) formation can take place and therefore the passing of those frequencies in the audio channels may not take place; since the stylus may remain unaffected by such vibrations of the arm. To add to this, in my opinion, the arm can not vibrate with other frequencies apart from the resonant (depending on the length) and its harmonics. So the contribution of these vibrations in the sound output may not be a point of worry.

Cracking rant a proper understanding & application of correct setup overcomes 95% of sound issues £75 in setup tools (protector, scale test LP etc) will improve sound output & can be used repeatedly...you never see performance comparisons done on signal levels/quality why is that?

20:30 I never thought it was the stylus that would vibrate the platter(or any other part), but the vibrations from the speakers.

Totally agree with you, Craig. My favorite turntable to use is a 1970's Accutrac 4000.

The bearing has minimal effect on speed. However, it greatly impacts on rumble. Try listening to a 1960s/70s Sugden Connoisseur BD1 or BD2 - these Heath-Robinson turntables originated from a garden shed enterprise but have some of the finest turntable bearings ever made. This resulted in very low rumble which made them popular in the broadcast and hi-fi arenas. Rumble is audible on the finest turntables if you have a good amplifier and speakers.

Thanks for the useful information you share here, your information enables me to at least distinguish between sense and nonsense, because there is a lot of nonsense in reviews, and it saves me a lot of money that I might otherwise have spent on all kinds of unnecessary nonsense. Keep up the good work, thanks again, best regards from the Netherlands

Biggest and Free improvement in my humble system was getting the speakers off the wall(s) and listening position correct relative to speakers. Made a HUUUUGE difference and literally costs zero

I watched this again after 2 years and found it very amusing. Since my last comment I have gained more experience with hifi and though your comments and observations seem to make sense in reality many are wrong. My sons and I have listened to a lot of hifi doing a lot of blind tests with various turntable/arm/cartridge and platter mat combinations and they all sounded different which is something that I always knew but these tests confirmed.

I decided to replace the felt mat on my Rega P2 (sorry Craig, you're not going to like this!) I bought a felt mat with the Japanese Columbia logo on it. I don't have a high end amplifier, just a second hand Marantz PM 4400. I took off the mat that came with my turntable and replaced it with the above mentioned mat. Now. my Wife is NOT in any way an audiophile, but she asked me if I had turned the volume down. I said that I hadn't. Now, a felt mat replacing a felt mat. SHE noticed the drop in volume instantly. I replaced it with a cork one, and the dynamics returned instantly. I can also tell you that I have got albums that I have had for decades, and that Rega brought out details in the music that I hadn't heard before. And NO, it wasn't the placebo effect either. I am a critical listener. If I can't hear a difference, then I will say so. I sold my guitar and my old turntable to get my P2, and I don't regret it for a moment. Don't knock it until you've tried it. I do like your channel, but please don't go bashing turntables that you have never heard.

I love your down to earth videos but have to disagree with your conclusions regarding the platter. It's not the needle causing it to vibrate, but the sound playing through the speakers, therefore I have found that the platter really does make a difference. Anyway, keep up the good work and thank you.

Ah, a voice of reason. Thank you.

I’ll also add that 1000x is a conservative estimate for phono amplification. 1400x is more typical (40db) and for better performing, lower output moving iron designs and moving coils, the signal will be amplified as much as 14,000x or greater (60db or more) I’ve got 4 tables at my house currently. An AT1240USB, Rega RP6, ProJect X8 and an Avid Volvere SP with a Kuzma arm. It’s easy to hear differences in the tables, running the same cartridge into the same phono stage. In fact, swapping between a RB303 and RB2000 arm on the Rega is audible due to the quality of the cable, better bearings and a different counterweight design. I get it, budget is a thing and there’s no need to be unhappy with an old SL1200 or similar table. Just try to be mindful that not everyone wants to drive a Carolla, and many people want better sound than a 1200mkii into vintage Pioneer receiver can offer.

I found a Technics SL-Q2 turntable at a second hand store for $40.00 all it needed was a stylus which i bought for $35.00 a Jico brand and I paired it with vintage equipment from a Goodwill store and it sounds great, just have to keep records clean and I'm happy with the music.

The platter, bearings, belt and, not so much the tonearm, but the cartridge DO in fact affect the sound quality. That doesn't mean that you have to spend a lot of money on a turntable. The Audio Technica LP 60X is a completely acceptable turntable. It is sold for between 79 and 140 dollars depending on the retailer. A belt driven aluminum platter and an AT 3600 cartridge which is so good for the price, that it's become fairly ubiquitous. The only thing this turntable doesn't have, is an antii-skate device. I usually disable the anti-skate anyway. I've found that that the skipping is worse on records that skip, WiTH the device. Save your money for the amp and speakers.

I like Funk Platter mates $160 Canadian. I love my home made isolation sandbox . Cartridges makes a huge differences. My Dual 704 is direct drive in dead quiet $350

From a DJ point of view playing on club sound systems that you can feel the music in your chest cavity all the resonances in a turntable become very obvious. I've played in a well damped booth where there was no obvious feedback but putting a cheap K-tel record on made the place howl with low end feedback. Those resonances are there even if you can't notice them. Forget blind listening tests, they're all subjective. You need a null test; play and record the same record on the same turntable at the same speed with different tone arms or cartridges, play both recordings back in a DAW at the exact same time with one of them phase inverted. If they are exact everything will cancel out and you will hear nothing, but if you can hear anything those are any differences in the system. It's harder to null test the body of a turntable but it's possible if you can calibrate them to exactly the same consistant speed, that's the only requirement. Just because you can't notice it doesn't mean it's not there and that other people can. Most people can't tell the difference between a 320kbps mp3 and lossless wav. But if you null test them you will hear a difference AND once you know what that difference is it becomes more obvious. You've trained your ears to recognise it. Also, the speed. 1/6th of a rotation in one minute is huge for DJ mixing. We can correct it with pitch control but it's not a trivial difference. They are precision instruments and correct calibration makes things much easier. And again there are people with perfect pitch who can hear such small differences in pitch (speed), even down to 5 cents (5% of a semitone). I can't, but I know others can and the music will sound slighty off tune to them. Other than that I agree you don't need to spend silly money. Aim for the best bang-per-buck within your budget.

Ways that turntables (as opposed to the tonearm-cartridge-stylus system) can affect sound:- - Belt imperfections, improper tensioning and belt ageing cause speed variations at lots of levels. (I won't buy another belt-driven turntable because I've had so much trouble with this.) - Poor isolation means that vibrations from the environment (for example, passing trucks, the subwoofer, your teenager stomping down the hall, sub-sonic resonances from the wind, someone talking near the turntable in bad cases) get transferred to the cartridge. - Motors and bearings can be all too audible, and the vibration and eccentricity from them can transfer to the cartridge. - Mains-synchronous motors can also cause speed and pitch variations, because the mains varies in frequency. - Steel platters can amplify ambient electromagnetic fields from the mains, passing mains hum into the signal from the cartridge. Steel also attracts the magnets in cartridges, increasing the tracking weight. The effect can vary over the course of a record. - Poor layout or grounding design can give you hum even with an aluminium , acrylic, or MDF platter. - Poor design or wiring can allow the pick-up of radio frequency interference (e.g. from phone chargers, TV power supplies, and even radio stations). - Switches and contacts can cause clicks and pops, and poor mains filtering can let through electrical noise from, say, your fridge or the neighbour's electric arc welder. If you're very lucky, you can get what you pay for, but you can't get even one of these aspects to be perfect, let alone all of them. Turntable design is a whole bunch of compromises. The design of the tonearm-cartridge-stylus system is another whole bunch of compromises, the list being at least twice as long as this one.

Good video. It's worth keeping in mind, especially if you're not made of money, that the money it takes to get to an optimum performance level is going to make an appreciable difference. Any money beyond that will make little or no appreciable difference. But there's almost no limit to the amount of money you CAN spend on that immeasurably small or nonexistent improvement.

Finally someone is telling the truth. I experience the same in the music world. YOu have to be very carefull to what you say. I don't listen to all that snobbery I just by what I can afford. A lot of youtubers are reviewing to sell someone else is stuff, so don't fall in to that trap. When you listen to them everything about the product is amazing. Rare to find honest reviewers nowadays. All because of views and subscriptions. I always look for great value for the money. If there are some drawbacks on a product so be it. No product is absolutely perfect. Like my English ; )

I picked up a gemini xl-100 from a local thrift store for 25 bucks (I know I've never heard of it either lol) and all I had to do was get a new cartridge and stylus so I went with the Audio Technica VM95C/H and it sounds great to me. Literally can't imagine spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this stuff. Just get some decent headphones and amp. This is where you'll hear the biggest difference.

As far as revolutions go, those metallic squares on the side of the platter, shpuld show the accurate speed, whether it is 33, 45, etc. There are 2 or 3 rows. Turn on that side light and watch.

I have had Technics 1210s and I've had Goodwill bought Sony. Now I have an AT120. Anyway, as far as pitch, the several Sony turntables I've had have alway needed adjustment which is simple enough. I never knew or had a strobe disc. A copy of Sgt Pepper is all I need. With that record, I believe I can match the pitch perfectly. Of course now, I have the AT and it's got the quartz thing and it sounds better than my old Technics that I had. They were bought 2nd hand and needed tlc.

I totally agree with what you said...the only thing imo will change the sound of a tt is the cartridge...and styllus type but it all comes down to how well your hearing is...I have 84 year old ears but I play my records on either a rt-85 or a Taya lp-100 and the sound is wonderful

This man is 100% spot on what he says

for audiophiles it is probably about reducing all types of vibrations even micro vibrations as much as possible in order to get as much detail in the sound as possible. especially those who wanted a holographic sound image and hear very small details in the recording. therefore they also wanted stereo rack with as much vibration damping as possible. . now we talking about people who have speakers for at least 5,000. and their amplifiers can cost at least as much. because they are not about good sound for them it sound that is fantastic. and it's kind of the people who can spend $ 30 on an album and who read audio reviews and try to access the best vinyl release when it comes to quality

First time viewing this channel. I subscribed based on the message to use common sense. The content looks good too.

Forget the physics 'cos I don't understand it all or I don't need to understand at all . Its not audio foolery . Its done by listening and only going with what I hear. I am down to Earth I do not like to waste my time or money. I am not swayed by marketing . I not not make any assumptions. I go to Shows . I talk to others . I try before I buy. I experiment. I alter things. I try things then I alter them . I fiddle with stuff I make it sound worse . I make it sound better . Its a hobby. Thanks Craig- Great Video.

Turntable motors, along with the worn bearings can make noise (rumble) that might be noticeable at a higher volume. Belt driven motors can often be quite because the motor and bearing noise is isolated off to the side. Again, probably only gonna make a big difference when cranked up. Only thing really gonna affect the overall noise on a turntable is the needle/cartridge. A better shelf vs a sturdier shelf vs one that doesn't pick up signals from bass noises. I'd rather have a solid one with my turntable on a slightly padded footing.

Just stopped by to say thanks for making this video. I've been building my new system on paper for a good week and I'm dealing with a kind of analysis paralysis. Your video helped bring my research back down to reality.

I bought a cheap $20 acrylic platter and it made a difference vs a felt mat. Especially with static noise.

I can respect people who pinch pennies and are happy with less in their audio gear. I also respect what goes into putting together a high end system. It’s really not that hard for me. I personally enjoy vintage gear, and how far my dollar goes with it. It’s not for everyone, but it works for me. I don’t have to have the best, but I’m not fond of junk either. The thing is, I enjoy it my way and putting others down for what they prefer, I just don’t get RU-vid comment culture. I’d tell young people to stay open to other ways of doing things.

as far as shelving goes, more mass equals less vibrations entering your equipment, especially your turntable, platter, cartridge.

As long as there are people, there will be a certain percentage of them that will be not happy unless they are sweating the small stuff about any subject that you can imagine. Those people do not have any real life issues to make them remember the things that truly are important..... Like good health, a roof over their head, food in their stomach to nourish them, and someone they can enjoy those things with.

Hi Craig, I just ordered a LP120 because I can’t get a RT81 in Switzerland. But I recently also came across the brand Reloop, which is very popular with DJs out here. Reviews in general are great. I would LOVE it if you could review a Reloop against AT or Fluance. Love your show.

Best channel on youtube.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Turntables can and do sound different and for many reasons.

This video was so helpful. Thank you man!

Hi. Quick question. I have two Technics SL1210 MKII decks connected to a mixer and for some reason I don't know, for years now, the one on he right has sounded a lot louder than the one on the left (i even swapped their positions to make sure it wasn't the mixer channels that were the issue). Do you know why this may be and how to make it so both produce the same volume? Everything else on the mixer (gain, trebble, base, mids, volume, etc) is set the same. Thanks

In basics the turntable only has to turn the record at the right speed with as low variation (wow and flutter) as possible. Vibrations from the motor must be damped and the platter bearing must be smooth to eliminate rumble. The platter can be of influence, the ringing you demonstrate by tapping the platter is ofcourse never caused by the cartridge. But some people play so insanely loud that simple metal platters and plastic housing of realy cheap turntables can pick up the sound from the speakers causing feedback like a microphone. For the SL-1200 the original rubber mat is more than enough to eliminate this problem and its housing is rigid enough to play in the loud environment of a discothek. Even the cheapest Pro-Ject will do all these things pretty good. But than we get to the arm, al long as the bearings are friction and play free this will do nothing to the sound, but the arm tube can really collor the sound like the wood of a speaker-cabinet. This colloration can be pleasing or it can be horrific, do you need a tone arm of $30.000 to get a pleasing sound? No, all arms from Rega and Pro-Ject sound pretty good but allso the arm of the Technics SL-1200 sounds great with a good cartridge. And there we have arrived at the nuber one thing that really makes a lot of difference cartridges can sound lean, bass-heavy, neutral, the highs can be boosted, they can even have a loudness like caracter. And the distortion can be very different due to the stylus shape, materials of the cantilever and suspension. If someone asks me what to do about the sound of their turntable and the turntable and arm are decent, I tell them get a good phono-preamplifier and a better cartridge that matches with the dynamic weight of the arm. And basically you can buy very good turntable, cartridge, phono-preamplifier combinations for arround $500 to $2000.