I am an MD specializing in diabetes, I have already had two patients, both pastors, whom I have diagnosed of diabetes type 2. Both refused treatment and chose prayer instead. Both are now dead
My daughter was in a car accident. The doctor said that I should say goodbye to her. Only a 2% chance of living. That was 6 years ago and she is still here. At no time did we thank God, we thanked the doctor who actually saved her.
Congestive heart failure DOES get better, in certain situations. I ought to know; I had it myself. Once the underlying cause--severe hypertension, in my case--was treated, my heart strengthened again. No prayer required.
So many questions left unanswered here. Did the aunt start eating a healthier diet and develop healthier lifestyle habits? Cardiovascular exercise (simply walking everyday or three times a week) improves cardiovascular strength. Just doing the general recommendations for diet and lifestyle from the AMA is enough, and unfortunately, not many people do even the minimum of the recommended.
Had to look up congested heartfailure and found this www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide-heart-failure#4 (not saying it's a credible source) They say that there are treatments that can help, and I should know since my grandpa who is 80 have been following a program given by his doctors to treat his condition. He is currently considered healthy with respect his age.
"Sometimes you get a 'yes', sometimes you get a 'no', and sometimes you get a 'not right now'." Funny how these are the exact same results one could expect after praying to a can of baked beans.
It is all about ego. Millions of children die before they even can understand what god is, yet her aunt was healed. Their god is an unimaginable monster, were he to exist.
Just like my nutty holier than thou sister who after condemning me to hell for not believing in her gawd told me that she has daily conversations with god,she hears his voice in her head and they just converse. She must be so special. Forgot to mention that after she condemned me to hell she followed it up with,"But I love you". How gracious of her the silly bitch.
It proves god is weak or evil or lame (if he exists). Weak: only being able to help a few people. Evil: being able to help anyone but preferring not too. Lame: using some stupid rule to worm out of not helping people, like free will or something (free will is an illusion anyway)
Colin Java I don't think lame is an option. I can not justify the amount of pain he would let some endure being justifiable. He is either too weak to help or too evil to care.
No, then it's because god wanted the patient to die. There is no event which disputes her preconceived notion. That is the definition of an unfulsifiable position.
hi Mike , i get your point , if there is a god or gods, very much doubt it . But just for this argument, we shall say there is , and only sometimes helps , because he works in mysterious ways , as i have heard , does not prove his nonexistence.
fekinel I know lol. God's about to tear down the community center but the concerned mothers protest with picket signs and their solidarity makes him realize what a greedy jerk he's been.
A large study was carried out here in the U.K. a couple of years ago. Patients were interviewed minutes after a medical consultation. On average 50% of the information the doctor thought he had imparted was misunderstood, misinterpreted or just totally forgotten.
Pair that off with a preconception that God is real and good, and suddenly doctors do nothing but monitor someone's condition until God fixes it for them.
misinterpreting would be her stating (attempting to reiterate misunderstood information) that a doctor gave her instruction, but the instruction she then describes wouldn't be the instruction that was given. misunderstanding doesn't need any further involvement, that's something someone does to themselves. so she could misunderstand the exact same information she is misinterpreting, but reiterating that information to someone else then makes it misinterpreting.
Fergus Denoon. Thanks for the clarification. I would love to claim credit and say that's what I meant all along, but unfortunately it isn't true - I just can't write very accurate English. Good job someone can. Oh, sod it, that's what I meant all along.
I had severe dandruff as a teenager and I prayed to god for it to be cured. I’m 74 now and bald as a billiard ball, truly the lord works in wondrous ways - thank you god!
You are dandruff free, free of the affliction that every teen goes though IT'S A MIRACLE, praise his mighty name someone i feel God should have a dandruff commercial LOL Like at the end when the girl has silky smooth and biblically perfect and shiny hair, sort of like what Zipporah (what you may call Sephora) had in 10 commandments when you consider she lived in the desert and tended to sheep all day she had amazingly healthy hair and shiny not full of dust at all
She sounds like my neighbor who got burned real bad and was flown to another state for medical treatment. The claim was "god healed him" So I said " what did the Doctors do, just stand around with their hands in their pockets"? I also said, "well next time that happens, stay home then and see how long you last" Wow, it just amazes me how stupid we Americans are.
You need to follow my Grandpa's nugget of wisdom: "Just when you thought you had the heard the stupidest thing, ever uttered by a person, the next guy walks in and opens his mouth." That's why I'm never amazed at the depth of stupidity of my fellow man.
No wonder the extreme right targeted evangelicals. They are so easy to manipulate. Even into voting against their own interest. Common sense would tell you that an evangelical doctor presented with a patient that they couldn't help would advise them to stop seeking treatment and go home and pray. That's if they believed their own BS which they don't. They would have their medical licenses revoked in a heartbeat.
It's amazing how God is so selective in answering prayers, he answers her prayers yet ignores the starving children or the child that's being sexually abused... it's just like he doesn't really exist
LOL... I have heart failure. In fact, I've had two valves replaced. For her to say there is no medical treatment that can improve the function of the heart is completely wrong.
I had two problems - first I had endocarditis which is an infection of the heart valve. That was repaired by surgery. Secondly, I had heart failure - caused by the endocarditis. The surgery didn't repair the heart failure... that is something different. Medication is used to "repair" heart failure... not surgery. My heart failure will never "go away." And it won't ever (at least not in the near future) be repaired by surgery. But medicine WILL improve my condition and extend my life significantly. Perhaps I should have clarified. OMG people just want to believe what they want to believe... forget the facts.
20 years ago I was diagnosed with stomach cancer and given three months to live. Coincidentally my doctor's sister, who is also a doctor, was also diagnosed with the same thing. She decided to go down holistic/religious path, I went with an experimental chemotherapy. I'm still here, the doctors sister died within 6 months leaving two small children. BTW, I'm the atheist son of a baptism minister
It says in the Bible that when more than two people pray for something it will come to pass. So can at least two Christians get together and pray to end world hunger? The world thanks you.
You did not see the genie episode of X-files did you? Mulder wishes for peace on Earth. Next thing he knows he is the only person on Earth. Providing food for everyone is not the only way to end hungry.
Qopel while I believe all gods only exist in fantasy, there are many times when a person helping themselves, is still in need of help. ever moved and needed help lifting a heavy dresser? you're moving youself but you still need help. of course not a god
I had a heartattack & lost one third of my heart. Over the year's, it's re-grown. It was explained to me, that it's like a Dam in a river, and new tributary's are created over time..... I never prayed nor had anyone pray for me.... Just got on with my life and slowly built up my strength...... The body does repair it's self..... Prayer's have now't to do with it. OH, I also had an "Out of Body experiance" and watched the Doctor's & Nurse's in the hospital working franticly to keep me alive. Never been so calm in my life, looking down from above at thing's I could not see from my bed. Didn't see God, Jesus or Angle's, just my Nurses & Doctor's.
FELIX McClurkin Want the best proof that god isnt real? Im praying that stupid people like jenny, can become intellectually capable of thinking properly. .......
I love the softness Jamie brings to the conversation. I usually love the routes that he chooses to go with conversation, but this time i was thinking “no matter who prays to Who she is going to say that god intercepted the message and helped” so When Erik took over and Mentioned the baby dying I was like “exactly!! That’s the answer to the “someone’s Prayer was Answered” Crap cause NO ONE prayed for That baby to die” but then Jamie redeemed his argument with the “why couldn’t god save the baby, Why doesn’t he have to choose” response, brilliant job guys
My mum was born with a congenital defect in one of her kidneys, so only one kidney worked. After having 3 kids in her 20's, her blood pressure was high and the doctor's believed the defective kidney had died, so they opened her up to take it out, but discovered it was still alive, so they left it there. Mum stayed on a low-salt diet for the next 40 years to keep her blood pressure under control, but otherwise, lived a normal, active life. Earlier this year, she went for her annual checkup and it was discovered that her defective kidney was now working perfectly. At 73 years old, her kidneys have never worked better. Doctors said that this was 'a first' for them. How could this be possible if no-one prayed for her kidney? After all, she's not religious. Seems the 'power of not praying' is just as good at producing 'miracles' as the claims of people like this caller.
the caller is simply wrong. Many people live with congestive heart failure for decades as there are many available treatments and living techniques for dealing with the disease. It cannot be cured, but can be treated. I think the guys here missed the mark, because they did not ask enough questions.
They really missed some vital questions on this. The doctors must have been absolutely flabbergasted. The aunt must feature in loads of medical text books. Presumably she’d have been the subject of many medical investigations by doctors who were desperate to find out how this miracle healing happened......
Did they starve themselves and babble incoherently? Did they frighten everyone in the room? Did anyone faint? God's insane, so maybe he responds better to that stuff.
Templeton Foundation study. Prayer has the same chance as random occasion. Those being prayed over who KNOW about the prayers actually less chance do to stress.
A common lineup of the seven ancient wonders of the world. Taurus = the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus (Monday). Gemini = the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (Tuesday). Cancer - = the Great Pyramid at Giza, Egypt (Wednesday). Leo = the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, Greece (Thursday). Virgo = the Hanging Gardens of Babylon (Friday). Libra = the Colossus of Rhodes (Saturday). Scorpio = the Lighthouse at Alexandria, Egypt (Sunday). Scorpio (the secret/sacred/sex) sign is where the Goddess Inanna removed her last vestige of modesty and her secret part lights up the world.
It also endorses genocide, rape, pillaging, murdering people for eating @ Red Lobster, & forcing pregnant women to drink potentially lethal liquid to prove she kept her marriage vows (considered being cursed if the fetus doesn't live through whatever diseases the mom aquires, and being ostracized or murdered.)
Christopher Ian Lister I look at it like it was written by left wing and Right wing writers. (NOT ACTUALLY, just an example). If a book has a number of different writers it's not going to have the same flow all the way through. Still not a great read either way. Some good stuff and some bad stuff. If you can get something actually good out of it all the power to you. (again not YOU you)
coolfosterdad I watched the video you referred too and he ONLY references the passages referring to Hebrew servants NOT slaves from conquered/foreign lands..good try though..guess you and he can’t read either?
I like the show but holy crap, these guys aren't the fastest thinkers. I'm not expecting them to be Matt Dillahunty fast, but they should practice their debating skills and have a go-to arsenal of better arguments. Sorry for the harsh criticism, but it's a little tough love. Thank you for putting on the show and look forward to many more broadcasts from you!
I agree with you. This was an easy debate and debunking her arguments are simple. But they seemed to struggle with it a bit. Matt Dillahunty would have shut that shit down in 60 seconds.
Matt is awesome but he does come on strong and talks fast and uses big words and highly logical statements which the callers may not be used to. He easily loses his callers because they aren't too bright. I think its refreshing to see a show host talk slower and more on the caller's level.
I was thinking this too. I actually cringed a few times at their responses and felt they were going the wrong way about it. the obvious response to the first thing she said was to talk about the statistics of prayer vs non prayer and people who get better vs people who don't get better and talk about whether or not there's any correlation. but they seemed very unsure of themselves, I suppose its unfair to compare them to a veteran like matt, they may be novices and I still do like what they do and hope they get better
I sincerely doubt that these guys are as learned in debating tactics or as knowledgeable as any the host on AXP. It’s a newer show and they will learn to establish their position and reasoning better as time goes along. I like the fact more shows are branching out. Just give them some time. It’s easy to criticize from an armchair.
Prayer: lets flip a coin shall we ... it's the same thing !!. Listening to these deluded callers is simply painful ... their ignorance is mind blowing.
I had cancer at 20. Had plenty of people surround me and pray. Yeah, thank god for all the misery of chemo he spared me. Remind me to sing his praises when I stand before him.
The Fourth Member of Migos so all the amputees who came back from Vietnam, none of them were Christian huh? Or better yet World War II. None of the amputees that came back from World War II were christian huh?
He cured her old aunt but let 32,000 children die today of starvation. God is awesome. Psychologically all religious people are some type of narcissist, liars or both.
I always wonder if Theists see one person being prayed for and recovering is prove for a God what is the millions of people who are prayed over and die anyWAY prove of?
King of the Castle VIII posting a comment just to claim victim-hood from hypothetical Atheists speaks volumes of where a conversation with you will go. With all do respect I'm not interested in feeding your self-created martyrdom
That would tecnicly be satan i would say loool 😁 But wait a minut, is he knowen to accually kill people like god does ? Lol I mean god must have had a busy day when he made the tlooting at time of moses. He killed between 170 to 300 MILLIONS people who by statictis lived back then
But it has a scary sounding name so it must be something that has no treatment. They should have Googled the condition rather than that prayer baby article. Also, rather than comparing different prayer or faith healing, they should have just asked if it's possible that what happened to her aunt could also have happened to someone who was never prayed for at all. Which, from these comments, happens relatively frequently.
I had an aunt who lost her leg in an automobile accident. Out whole church prayed for her over many months. After a long recovery program, her leg grew back.
Even though i find it amazing that her leg actually grew back. Operative words RECOVERY PROGRAM not.... PRAYER SESSION A Leg growing back is a Regenerative Process (in most cases no possible in humans) Prayer does not induce regeneration in cells
@@Vaidelotelis OK. Do you really believe the creator of the universe re grew her leg. As for the WHY NOT ? Because i'm a Paramedic, and i see this stuff, and i know what happens and what doesn't Now.. O.P. SAID "AUNT LOST HER LEG IN AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENT" 1. LOST MEANS... GONE, it means she is permanently without a leg (But... Let's allow for common speak and that she's not a medical professional) 2. What does (In her Common Speak) Lost Leg, mean ? Does it mean, Severed at the Hip, does it mean that the Femoral head separated from the Acetubulum. is the Femoral head broken ? Or did it break at the body of the Femur, so.. Lost leg from the femur Down (which is common). so.. if this happened, Your leg is not going to grow back . or, was the leg broken from the knee cap and therefore lost from the knee cap down, Was the Tibia or Fibia broken or both ? or was the leg stuck under one of the pedals and from the forward motion got broken at the ankle or... Did the leg not get broken at all, but instead the Ligament of the head of the femur was torn completely, and then this is interpreted (As a result of no use of the leg) as... She LOST her leg. in this case.... It would regenerate over time What exactly did she mean by , Lost her Leg But think about this..... From time to time you have leg amputee's WHY DOES THEIR LEG NOT GROW BACK do you think ? if Entire legs could grow back there would be no need to manufacture Prosthetics so that's why ? BECAUSE I HAVE ACTUAL MEDICAL TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE THAT TELLS ME AS SUCH. I'd be really interested to know exactly what injury was suffered and to read the hospital report upon admission. Can the creator of the universe re create a leg SURE... 1. If he exists 2. if he actually created the universe, it follows that he could re create a mere leg ALTHOUGH YOU DON'T KNOW IF HE EXISTS IF HE EXISTS, YOU DON'T KNOW IF HE CARES TO BOTHER TO REPAIR THE LEG. but here is one we do know THE BIBLE ISN'T GOD'S WORD and as such whatever you think you know about god, isn't actually true. that's not to say god doesn't exist, it's to say.. LET'S BE REAL ABOUT WHAT YOU KNOW the origin of the universe for you COME FROM THE BIBLE (Therefore that's incorrect) Your understanding of god COMES FROM THE BIBLE (Therefore that's incorrect) IT WOULD BE SMARTER OF YOU 1. To put down the bible 2. Separate yourself from religion 3. THEN.... PRAY TO GOD DIRECTLY 4. PRAY TO JESUS DIRECTLY 5. RESEARCH THE LIFE OF JESUS (Why christians don't do this i'll never understand) but yeah mate.... I have medical Experience I have over 20 years religious experience (As an Ordained Minister) A LEG COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED AND LOST IN A CAR ACCIDENT The Most probable scenario is..... THE LEG IS NOT GROWNG BACK. If you want to say it did, I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to read that report and speak to the doctor. for me, that would be really interesting BUT NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND has a doctor returned to an amputee to find the leg unexplainably grew back THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED Prayer also, doesn't heal an amputated leg so.. do you really believe that god regrew the leg IF SO , TELL ME WHY OR HOW
Without knowing the particulars of the aunt’s condition, I would suggest to the caller that there is a chance that her condition was not as serious as predicted or that sometimes people respond better than others. For example, if 1000 lab mice with CHF were prayed over and one survived, would that be a miracle or just chance?
More likely is that her aunt reached an age where she began to grow ancillary arteries that fed more oxygen to her cardiac muscles and they were able to recover some function. The caller and her aunt just don't understand physiology.
A guy at the church I formerly attended fell off a roof and broke his back, lost the use of his legs... A bunch of us sincerely thought God would heal him... well he's still paralyzed, 5 years later. I'm glad I don't think this way anymore! That incident was one of the pieces to my de conversion puzzle.
"Sometimes you get a yes, sometimes you get a no, sometimes you get a not right now" it's almost like it's totally random and not actually dependent on if you pray (well enough) or not
congestive heart failure in younger patients can absolutely be reversed with treatment. It can also be slowed or stopped with proper treatment. It's a fact easily verifiable.
"Prayers are answered my aunt had heart issues and she's healed!1!1!1!1" Good job you just identified that our bodies are ridiculously weird and able to heal with no explanation
I'm willing to bet that the doctors did give her orders, maybe foods to avoid and ones to eat, behaviors to do and not to do. Even if there isn't a drug to fix something there can be things you can do that increases your chances of recovery
God cares for her aunt but not the praying mothers to all those millions of children starving to death each year? There's something very self-centered about these religious people. Like when a tennis-player looks at the sky and thanks God when he won the game, totally forgetting there was someone he played with. Christian love I guess.
Norman Neskio I always say that, when a player points to the sky or in a post game interview thanks god, i'm like you are seriously thanking a being you believe exists and helped you win the game but screwed over the other team that had players and fans praying. all the while ignoring the millions of "his" children suffering from war, famine, sexual abuse, neglect, disease, etc. to help you score and/or win. that's one helluva god there.
because god gives a f*ck about who won that match, while millions of children die each year of easily preventable diseases before they even get to the age where they can be indoctrinated.
A baby was in the hospital dieing. A pastor and his congregation prayed and the baby lived. The pastors response, praise God, prayer works. A baby was in the hospital dieing. A pastor and his congregation prayed. The baby died. The pastors response. Well now it was God's will. We shouldn't question God. Does prayer really work? I say flip a coin and you will get about the same results.
Congestive Heart Failure (CHF) can be managed through exercises in moderation where patients' symptoms are closely monitored and exercise frequencies/intensities can be slowly progressed based on patients' activity tolerance. I'm graduating with a DPT in less than 1 month and have experienced with numerous patients with CHF and have implemented controlled exercise as part of their plan of care with success, in other words, symptoms such as peripheral edema and shortness breath upon exertion decreasing. As far as an echocardiogram results, I completed my clinical rotation at that facility and was on to the next, so did not get to follow-up on their progress thereafter.
When you get these simpletons refer them to The Templeton foundation prayer studies that show the lack of the effectiveness of prayer across the board .
MacheteDontTweet your wrong look at the oldest healthiest people on the planet. All are religious married. Atheists don’t live near as happy or healthy lives
Justin Jones , and what does that have to do with the fact that "prayer studies" show no efficacy , and often that prayer has a negative impact on medical outcome? And which religion are these "oldest healthiest " persons members of ? The Japanese have the longest life span on average , and one of the most secular societies . What the data support is that a live style without of what is called "The western diet" leads to longevity . This is shown in the traditional Japanese diet, the Mediterranean diet , as well as Eastern European diets . Add Mcdonalds , Kentucky fried chicken , processed foods , booze and cigarettes people die at the same western rates . Research done in Okinawa showed a marked increase in obesity and heart disease rates with the introduction of western diet items . Further , Google life expectancy in the USA , you will clearly see that the states with the most religiosity has the shortest life expectancy as well as the highest infant mortality rates . Opinions are only valid when backed by empirical data. Feelings mean nothing .
A god which sometimes answers prayers and sometimes lets you die is indistinguishable from a god which does not exist. It mirrors exactly what would happen in a world where there is no controlling entity, or if there is, he doesnt intercede. So why is this healing story supposed to make me believe?
What a waste of a call. She literally said "it's the will of God" and you have to "convince him to do what's right" my goodness that is downright disgusting
Prayer: because an all loving god gets off on making people beg. Gotta love the argument from ignorance right off the bat as well. "god healed my aunt" - "why do you believe that?" - "well what else could it be??"
LOL...the almighty perfect god will just "change his mind" about his divine plan, just because some stupid human, who can't see the future like god does, asks him to change his mind. WTF? If everything goes by god's plan then there can't be free will.
I had a serious case of polymyalgia rheumatica, for which the doctors say there is no cure. It never crossed my mind to say a prayer to anyone, because I have a no respect for people who believe in the supernatural. Yet after a year my disease disappeared. I'm now fine without the need for any pain relief or anti-inflammatory medications.
12:50 Jenny: "Everything is God's plan." Jamie: "...Then why do people pray to God to ask him to do something specifically?..." Jenny: "Because he can change his plan if you can convince him it's the right thing to do..." OK: So, we're to believe that there's this all-powerful deity in charge of everything, and he has a comprehensive, perfect plan for the universe (a plan that requires 3-day-old babies to die, apparently), but he'll change this astronomically-complex plan of his just for YOU....? Because YOU have some power of persuasion over this supreme being that assumedly others (like the parents of aforementioned 3-day-old infant) do not...? My word, but how egotistical is that...?
My father had congestive heart failure it’s not terminal this happened 4 years ago he now had a pacemaker. Science is what I contribute all of his recovery to.
The hoops people jump through to enable their delusion is staggering. These guys are so well prepared and patient. I learn way more than just content from these videos. Carry on.
Occam's razor is a bit complicated. I would have gone with "Even if there is no medical reason, that doesn't mean that it was god or prayer." You can't just say it was god just because you don't know what it was. Plus, having something happen is not proof of why it happened. She got better. Absolutely nothing in the event as described proves it was a god.
If a priest walked into a random hospital and prayed over all the patients, and then they all were healed (ok, maybe some of them) and just one regrew a severed limb, then at least there would be evidence that something unusual happened, but it still would not be evidence that it was that priests god. They cannot even do the first part of that.
Jose Kariamadam do you really believe that? you really think we'd live in a paradise if a scumbag like trump or pence or putin had their prayers answered?
My parent's pastor's 14 year old daughter was diagnosed with cancer. After surgery and treatment it went into remission. They said it was because family and friends prayed day and night. A year later I (who was 28 at the time) was diagnosed with cancer, after surgery and treatment my cancer also went into remission. I asked my parents why my cancer went into remission when I'm an Atheist when her cancer went into remission apparently due almost entirely to prayer? They answered "cause WE prayed for you". Another year passed and the now 16 year old daughter of the pastor's cancer resurfaced and over the course of 8 months wound up taking it's toll and she unfortunately passed away. That was 8 years ago now and my cancer has not come back and I am healthier than ever and still an Atheist. When I asked my mother one day why her God would do this to a devout God loving child and not an adult Atheist she simply said "God had a plan for her". That's my biggest problem with religion, it all comes down to "God's divine plan" to which I say "If your God's plan involves the death of children and innocent people than they are an evil God. And if you truly, honestly believe she's in a better place then stop mourning and be glad she was "chosen by God" or whatever other reason you can explain her cancer. Also, why did your God listen to your prayers the first time and not the second time?!? was his plan to kill her the second time around? Is it some sort of time sensitive goal of his?"
Please God if you exist, I beg you from all my heart, don't let this prayer appear on RU-vid comments. This will be for me the ultimate proof that you exist and I will worship you until I die. Thanks.
From Ricky Gervais: “Apparently, God does everything, so I asked Him about when a tree branch fell on my neighbor’s car, last May 15. God looked up his day-planner and said, No that wasn’t me, on that day I was in Africa giving AIDS to babies”.
@@GoodBrotherGrimmThat’s not smug. And he’s advocated for people’s right to religion and said that if you’re a nonbeliever you can’t advocate taking away someone’s right to practice.
In my 20s I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. In my 40s my current dr retested my and I had no signs of rheumatoid. I guess all the swearing and drinking healed me.
Agreed in part. Fluid overload is what causes CHF and can be treated successfully with diuretics. It can be treated even better with diet modification. And it can be reversed. I have patients who fall in this category. The heart is like any muscle. And just like dancers can stretch their muscles to allow for increased mobility, the heart can stretch. But as skeletal muscles that aren't stretched regularly return to their previous length, so can the heart. Keep in mind the muscles of the heart are histological different than skeletal muscle.
I have a friend who had congestive heart failure. He was told he had 5 years to live, 10 at the most if he responded to drug treatment. He decided if he was going to go out, he was going to have a good time in the meantime. So he started doing meth... after about a year of that, his congestive heart failure is completely reversed. Why? Because methamphetamines are hardcore diuretics. LMFAO! Now, I don't recommend anyone with a heart condition start doing meth, but this just illustrates the point... drugs can "cure" lots of conditions without surgery.
