How Come Timing Marks Don't Always Line Up Perfect? 

This was me rite now until i seen this lol

It’s happening to me now 😂😂😂😂

Same.. LMFAO

I did the same removed belt 7 times so far 🤬🤬🤬

Hahaaa thats why i come here.

Glad I could help. Thanks for the comment.

It's always great to know when my work helps people. Thanks for the comment.

sometimes those people are well off BECAUSE they are miserly. If you are always spending extra on everything, you tend to have a lot less overall especially if you are making modest income; but if that same person penny pinches everywhere, it can have a huge effect on savings and therefore you appear more well off (ofc your guy could be a millionaire, but to some extent it still applies ... but you did say a 01 camry, so probably not 'rich'). And to be clear, sometimes those cheap things ARE the same. Go to Wal-Mart. Look at Melitta coffee filters and then Great Value coffee filters. The only literal difference is the bag they are in and how much melitta cares about how centered that stack of filters are in the bag (they care very much, and the display cases, they need to be lined up straight too). I worked for a company that made them, the difference between runs was a bag switch and if the machine was slightly off, how finicky you had to be straightening them in the bag and keeping up with the machines. This company also made wet wipes, Clorox had their own line and product (they owned it) but the other lines for store and other brands were pretty much the same outside changes for 'natural' or brand specific scents (rare); and the hospital only line. The quality was all good, the company wasn't bad; just know that many products are a label or sometimes a container change, but can be the exact same product inside. If you ever wondered why something looked very similar or smelled pretty much the same, that is why. The products are basically contracted through other companies that focus on that industry. I worked for dayco at one point, they shipped hoses to a lot of places including actual manufacturers, not just your local parts store. If someone has that knowledge, they may just buy the cheap generic thing because they truly do believe it to be the same; and I guess he trusted your judgement and realized they could be different as well. That would be my attitude towards it except I usually do tons of research first, and hopefully if I found a mechanic that respected my efforts and willing to have a short conversation about the parts I want to get to put on the car, we wouldn't have one of Eric's other video's problems, the customer that buy bad/wrong parts and makes their life harder; that would never be my point, I just want to know what I put on and would like to purchase it. Like if I wanted Idemitsu oil in my car instead of generic 0w20 they get in bulk because it is proven to work in rotaries as it is what Mazda used at LeMans and in their race series to this day, it was developed specifically for the rotary and its use in being used in the combustion chamber to lubricate the seals and burn cleanly. (that is the type of research and detail I consider respectful to a mechanic that respects me, but what the hell do I know, I'm just passionate about the cars I own and want as much involvement as I can get, but I'm clumsy when I work on cars and usually hurt myself and sometimes the car, so I try not to do major stuff any longer so I don't break something (car or self!)).

@@kuromurasaki5273 You scratched the surface with this mindset, having capital allows you to be opportunistic with your investing. But this is a situation where you have to calculate if the upfront cost savings offsets the amount of time until the next belt change and the increased odds of the belt snapping and seizing up the engine. I would argue with the risk to reward ratio of purchasing a compentnet as important as a timing belt, you're much better off spending 100 dollars more to leave you that cushion for what if it does snap and costs you 4-5k towards an engine swap.

I feel your pain...took it 4 times on my panda

@@giogio4833 join the club 😀

I'm happy to help. Thanks for the comment.

I believe final drives are usually the same, and for the same reason. it spreads out any unevenness in wear - rather like rotating your tyres. :-)

@@aussiebloke609.

@@aussiebloke609 ....

@@aussiebloke609 mc..... El problema. M. ...mc

I've read a lot of fun comments about this video. This is fun too, but it's also the best explanation I've seen. Great comment. Good to see you Spelunkered.

it would be one very odd "short engine" to make it line up on the cam every other rotation even (belt would be exactly 2x diameter of the cam, lol) the longer the belt, the more rotations it takes to line back up at the cam and 2x that at the crank since cam runs half the rotational speed. rocket surgery =p

271 rotations to get the marks to line up again on a Subaru EJ25 (2.5L motor used in WRX/Sti and other Subaru models)! Eric should consider himself lucky that he didn't try this experiment on that motor! P.s. thanks for the explanation!

yeap, exactly. when we make some custom engines, theres actually a few different belts that will work on something like... lets say, a RB25/30 (rb30 SOHC block, with a RB25 DOHC head on it) , depending on where the new tensioner and idler pulley locations are, anything from a 250 to 255 tooth belt, usually we'll use a 253 tooth belt, just to have an easier time installing the belt, without too much slack

Your comment fully explained it best! Thanks! 😁👍

Heck yeah! He should show off his guns afterwards. Kidding. Lol

he had the plugs out i think

@@360fanboy360 smarter not harder, right? Lol

My thoughts too .i never rotate my engs in the opposite direction from normal rotation .not sure if it matters just something i dont do

Yep. Can't use the time-tested starter trick to break that crank bolt loose. Honda should have made them left-hand thread.

@@derekholdt747 question. Is a normal bolt, left or right hand threaded?

Only older honda rotate this side

@DE Nichols // Standard conventional threads are right-handed

Timing chains are supposed to NEVER need replacing.

Timing chains tend to only go out due to neglect. They're a bit more difficult to swap out as they usually outlive the engine, unlike belts which are a wear item and you have to go through this every X miles.

@@TheEgg185 Tell that to nissan and their vq35 engines.

amak1131 well the chains stretch and wear just as much of not more than belts do. Ok, let me guess the tensioner should account for that wear? The tensioners are usually what fail on timing chains. Ask bmw, Nissan, gm ecotec owners, Mini Cooper 1.6 owners, early dodge and Chrysler hemi owners, I could keep going. Especially with cars staying on the road a considerable amount of time longer than they did 10 years ago. Hate to tell you, but if timing chains didn’t ever need to be replaced they wouldn’t make them replaceable. If you consider 100k-150k the lifespan of a car then I guess timing chains are a lifetime part, but any more than that they become a wear item.

Happy Birthday!

@@ETCG1 thank you😄👍

I've noticed if the heads been milled twice and or the block decked it can cause this. Half tooth off..great video

Absolutely correct. I would add that the reason timing Mark's dont always line up is due to a combination of initial manufacturing tolerance, cylinder head gasket compression (which affects the distance between pulleys, cylinder head re surfacing (which reduces the distance between pulleys and belt stretch. Additionally there is a measurable change in distance between pulleys when tbe engine is hot. Thermal expansion is a notable effect.

Happy Birthday!

TargaWheels it does work but it’s not always the simplest or best way. Sometimes a valve spring will be under tension and when you take the belt off, the cam shaft will spin round a bit. Then you end up trying to put the belt with one hand while holding the camshaft in position with a spanner. Then you’re left wondering if a valve hit the piston crown and got damaged until you start the engine. The other issue is that if your old belt had a bit of stretch, you’re putting the new belt back on the wrong position which could be a tooth out. Sure, it’ll run but it’s not good practice. The best way is just to use the timing marks or better still, locking tools if you have them. If not, some engines can be locked with bolts in strategic places.

On my car there are colored markings on the head and block and sight holes on the pulleys that you line up with those markings.

Just sharing what I've been doing. Honda/Acura, Toyota, I've done it this way without a hitch. If it does move slightly I'll rotate it back when putting the belt on. After I set the tensioner I go back around and make sure all my marks line up.

Barry McNicholl Yes.! you nailed it,I I used camshaft locking tools on my GM 3.6 and I feel so mucho confident that I did right after every 2 turns the timing marks on camshafts are aligned with locking tools,those $18 that I pay for them makes me sleep well 🙋🏻‍♂️

@@TargaWheels what if I rotated the crank after I put the belt on, and when I looked after rotating a few the marks on the belt did not line up...

That makes sense though because what’s the chances of the chain and gear or belt will always lining up perfectly , I guess as long as the marks are somewhere in the realm of where there supposed to be its fine

Same thing, really - tooth count is a direct ratio to the gear's size, as the distance between teeth is set by the size of the chain links, so a specific tooth count would mean a set circumference for that sprocket. You can still count the teeth on the gears if you're using a belt instead of a chain. The biggest difference I see with belts is having a tensioner, which a lot of older engines (especially OHV) don't have. The tensioner lets the designers change the number of teeth in the belt a touch if needed by adding a tooth to the belt and designing the tensioner to take up just a little additional slack (as well as being needed because belts tend to stretch more readily.)

I was going to say the same thing, albeit a little nicer.

I got this information from an engineer. It's done to minimize wear on the system according to what he told me.

@@ETCG1 I think there might be confusion on what you mean when you say "timing marks". The timing marks on the crank pulley and cam pulley (if it's got marks) should line up within a fraction of a tooth with every rotation, while any pre-printed mark on the belt itself (or one you make) absolutely should shift as the crank is repeatedly rotated to minimize wear on the belt.

@@petermescher332 exactly. The belt processes around by some number of teeth per rotation, while the pulleys stay in sync. Say the crank pulley has 30 teeth (the cams have 60), if the belt has 301, every 10 crank rotations a mark on the belt would move back by 10 teeth behind the timing marks on the pulley and block/head...and every 300 crank rotations the belt mark would be back aligned? But none of this has anything to do with the timing marks on the crank and cam being off by some fraction of a tooth.

@@ETCG1 no matter the position, the belt length and pulleys stay the same. Yes the belt position on the pulleys drift by tooth but the actual true crank/Cam alignment stays true. This has no impact to the true position of cam timing. When installing a new belt with the marks in place, any variation under a single tooth can be attributed to variation in machining or tension. Often the marks will align more true after rotation and slack is redistribute. Often in high performance applications we use a degree wheel and degree the cam to account for such variances as they can accumulate into multiple degrees when head gasket sizes and machining variances are taken into account.