How Did Frank Zappa Write Melodies? (Rollo Interior & RDNZL Analysis) 

Just say lydian, about 10,000 times. And then you'll get it!

@@PrinceZappa Pardon?

You don't have to know theory. Trust your ears. I do and they're great!

Ditto

I absolutely agree.

Maybe J.S. BACH

Yes. Yes he was. Bach was not. It’s ok to say that.

Thanks you very much - and I quite agree, I hope to give FZ as much coverage as possible in order to fix this!

@@SamuelRHoward sounds great to me! If you ever get a chance to look at drowning witch I think that song, and that whole album really, have some of the craziest Zappa harmonies and I would love to see an actual analysis of it. Great videos and I've enjoyed all your original compositions I've seen as well

@@jacksonbarker7594 I'll stick it on the to-do list! And thank you very much, especially thrilled that you've been enjoying my own stuff - thanks for listening!

Agreed, I love this!!! The only similar channel I watch is 8-bit music theory for video game music...

@@arekhautaluoma4276 8-Bit Music Theory is tight!

Thank you very much for finding the time to give this specific feedback, it's very useful, and I appreciate it. I'm glad you enjoyed the density - I did toy with the idea of working in broader, more accessible strokes, but the beauty of RU-vid is its pause feature, plus I thought there's enough information to at least get something from the video, even if some stuff was to slip through the net at first.

I used the score she shows in that video to check my transcription, including the chord symbols and slurs! I love that interview, and I'd love to chat with Ruth for a few hours exclusively about the music's idiosyncracies. The liner notes for Roxy By Proxy were great insights (I believe we have Kurt Morgan to thank in part for teasing a bunch of info out of her). I will definitely be addressing some of the denser stuff - "Bebop Tango" is on the list, as is "Join the March and Eat My Starch", and "Mo 'n Herb's Vacation" (not a complete list by the way). In fact, I'll be doing a little series at some point which explores different facets of all 3 movements of Mo 'n Herb's, so I won't be neglecting the orchestral music, which I think is superlative. Thanks for the great feedback

Samuel R. Howard Nice! Thanks for taking time to reply. We have many similar interests in Frank's music. And I too would love to communicate with Ruth. If nothing more than to tell her how much I enjoyed and appreciate her work. I saw her live at a Mothers anniversary concert in the mid 80's and Frank joined her on percussion during Uncle Meat. It affirmed many suspicions I had about Frank's high level of competency in percussion instrument performance. Best Regards to you! I'll be subbing and following your work!

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I would have loved to have been around for a concert like that - I envy you!

Thanks very much for taking the time to comment, I appreciate your input and I'm glad this has been of some use. Zappa's a tough one to analyse, because a lot of analytical techniques centre around harmony (even if it's not functional, in atonal music there's often a focus on set class theory), but this doesn't really work for quite a few of Zappa's pieces, so striking a balance between adequately analysing that aspect of his work and not getting too hung up on it is actually quite challenging. I'm about halfway done editing a video about the development of this theme, "Rollo Goes Out" - that one's even tougher!

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! Look forward to watching your own video - there seems to be a void on RU-vid as far as good technical analysis of FZ is concerned, so it's good to see other people covering all facets of the music.

Hey it’s Quist!!!!!

I love all of Frank Zappas albums. Sleep Dirt and Studio Tan from 1978 and 1979 you probably have too right ?? In your collection too

@@SamuelRHoward oh yeah Francesco Zappa was an old composer a few hundred years before Frank Zappa...that album is Frank Zappa covering Francesco Zappas songs. They had the last name. They werent even related right ??

@@SamuelRHoward Frank Zappa was a great guitar player too. Wasnt he ?

I agree, it's my favourite melody without a shadow of a doubt.

And when he overcomplicated things he wasn't as good. Xmas Values as one example.

@@PrinceZappa dafuq are you talking about xmas values is top class zappa, the whole civ phase iii is gold. The latter output of his life was the result of a lifetime of study and devotion. Everything was pure intuition, the most eloquent translation of imagination you can find. Theres much simplicity in those works if you know how to hear it, you should study your dreams.

Yes, I love these melodies, Rollo especially - for all that they are definitely complex, some of the principles that seem to guide them are fairly simple. In fact, I think the theory behind Zappa's music is generally quite accessible, as it doesn't often rely very heavily on functional harmony, so I think there's potential to make these kinds of analyses quite engaging.

Beautiful stuff, glad you found some of it useful

and how

Thanks for the feedback, and glad you've found them useful - plenty more of this kind of thing planned for the future!

Just don't abuse a sausage patty...

Electric Aunt Jemima!

@@theinvisibleman2194 LOL!! You beat me to it.

@consciousnick Haha! Good one..

consciousnick - Saint Alfonzo would be proud of you

Thanks for the feedback and for spending time with the video!

There’s a lot to absorb! Seems to be renewed interest in Frank’s work these days, which is great to see.

Thanks immensely for the kind comments! As a Yorkshireman, it's refreshing to hear somebody say something nice about my diction!

@@SamuelRHoward Having an extensive background in choral music, where the necessity for exaggerated articulation and precise rhythmic placement of final hard consonances such as "d" or "t" are mandatory if you want the words to have meaning as well as sounding beautiful. I probably should have used articulation, enunciation and pronunciation as well as diction. My favorite vocal ensemble performing one of my favorite choral works. Enjoy, ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ViSQRzLk68s.html

@@brandom1953 Thanks very much, I love Britten! I didn't know this recording, sounds beautiful. Cheers!

Theory's good for communicating ideas and for having a framework with which to understand something - as a player, but especially as a composer. You have to do a bit of lateral thinking with Zappa's stuff though - he had a very distinct and recognisable style.

Thanks for the feedback, glad you're enjoying it. Will be focusing on exactly those kinds of moments, so it's definitely a possibility that I'll examine that at some point in the future

Have you seen Tyler Bartram's video on the Jumbo insertion unit?

Thanks! Plenty more Zappa stuff in the works (I've done so many transcriptions...) - plus some of the stuff that isn't about Zappa does sometimes relate to Zappa (e.g. the nested tuplets and polymeter videos use examples from Zappa)

Thanks very much for your feedback - I'm glad you've found it useful for reinforcing your reading too. I'm about 75% done editing an analysis of the rest of Rollo, just in case that interests you!

I would have loved to have caught Frank just once, but sadly, it was impossible! I've enjoyed Dweezil many a time, however. Glad you enjoyed the video.

Samuel R. Howard just do it by ear maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

Cool! Anyway give us more videos like this. Soon. (;

Brilliant dive deep and come up with the treasure...

I heard an interview in which Art Tripp said he regarded Zappa as belonging to a similar league as Duke Ellington rather than Stravinsky, and I think there's some truth to that. Zappa's work - even his orchestral work - doesn't really engage with or build upon the Western classical lineage that the composers he admired were a part of. In that sense, he reminds me more of Ives or Cage, and I do think he had a similarly singular aesthetic vision which his technique served, even if it was in some ways kind of crude (although there was some sophistication to it in other ways, especially later on). As such, I don't think it's a problem that he wasn't well-versed in older classical repertoire - what he seemed to be good at was taking the surface aesthetic features of different styles and assembling them into something completely distinct (his interest in dadaist art comes across there, I think). So his work may not have historical depth in terms of its contributions to the Western Classical Canon, but I don't think that's necessarily the best metric to judge Zappa's output by.

@Nat : Beauty is in the eye (ears) of the beholder....

And how fitting that somebody spotted this on Easter! Praise be.

@@SamuelRHoward Hallelujah... Let's go get some pancakes with mar-juh-rine! But seriously, I don't think my observation at such time was by accident...it's all part of the Big Note.

I do enjoy Zappa's solos from time to time, but perhaps controversially, I find it to be one of the weaker aspects of his work - I find the arranged parts of his oeuvre more interesting

Echidna's Arf is in my bass practice routine, so I'll definitely get to it at some point!

Samuel R. Howard perfect! I’m primarily a bass player, so that’s definitely gonna be something I’ll look out for. Thank you!

@@SamuelRHoward i wish there was some more easily findable recordings with Scott Thunes. I know of a few, but from the praise Frank himself and everyone else who played with him (said his talent was like a God amongst men) i feel as if there needs to be more so he is not lost with time.

Thank you very much - more is on the way, it's only a matter of time!

Thanks for the feedback - you might like how I handled scores in my last few videos, I highlighted each beat, but I've since dropped that method, since animating it added hours to the time it took to make the videos! Glad you enjoyed it - there is definitely much more Frank on the way, and I'll be covering much of my own stuff where it pertains to the topics I choose to explore.

@@SamuelRHoward I thought about the work involved in this video production. Thanks for getting back, you got me as a subscriber...Dan Ramirez (guitarist).

@@MrDXRamirez Thanks, Dan, for taking the time to comment, and for subscribing!

@@SamuelRHoward🎵🎸you're welcome .

yes...recap with the bouncing ball...at regular and slower speeds....as long as the slowing does not change octaves down

Glad you enjoyed it - and I hope the parts you didn't understand can at least help point you towards some new facets of music theory you find interesting.

I have always felt similarly though I love all his eras- many of his most iconic melodies are from that era and became staples for decades, but it's interesting to think that not only was he recording some of that stuff a couple years earlier, but some of those melodies he was writing I believe when he was a teenager IIRC. I could be misremembering but I believe I read somewhere that Uncle Meat or something(s) off that album were partially written when he was 15 or so.

Robert J Wells That wouldn’t surprise me. I found a 4 string tenor guitar in my mother’s closet when I was 14 and started teaching myself some theory (I sort of figured out the 7 modes that occur naturally in the C major scale). The stuff I wrote when I was that young had a nice quirky quality to it (I’m no Zappa though).

Notice too that Zappa squeezed Ruth's big bottom. She got huge behind in those jeans. Great player too.

I think the added melody segment is excellent, but like you, I much prefer the earlier, faster versions - I think the 1973 RDNZL is a much more exciting piece of music (with all the syncopated stabs, great drumming by Ralph Humphrey, and that marimba fill that Ruth plays near the end). My main gripe with later versions, though, isn't the addition of the melody section, rather it's the omission of the very, very beautiful keyboard harmonies from the opening and closing themes. I really don't know what made Frank think that would sound better as a barer unison line!

I certainly shall - more on the horizon!

Zappa was known to have an occasionally scatalogical sense of humour, I suppose

He did wonder if humor belonged in music....

Cheers!

Cheers mate!

Thanks for the great feedback. Whilst I can't afford to hire an orchestra to play them, I will most likely be analysing some of Mo 'n Herb's in the future!

@@SamuelRHoward There is soooo much orchestral work that came from a man that lived to be 52 years old. When he died, like many- I was DEVASTATED, flat-out. Band member & collaborator George Duke, (a great jazz man in his own rite) said something akin to 'it was like he knew that he wasn't going to live a long time'. He put out a prolific catalogue during his time on Earth. So much so, even some ardent fans can site albums that they really aren't fond of. Myself ? I love everything but "Cruising with Reuben & The Jets", (some of it is worthwhile, though, IMO), "Thing Fish" ? Not so much, but Terry Bozzio, vocally cracked me up... I LOVE the FLO & EDDIE period of FZ's output- great band really lead by the phenom himself, Aynsley Dunbar on drums. The period that includes his Grand Wazoo & Petite Wazoo bands are also of particular interest to those that lean toward his orchestral works. These included 20 & 10 piece bands, including percussion, woodwind & string sections.... These recordings, in particular, are backed by 2 official LP album recordings at the time. But, there are live recordings of these bands here on RU-vid- & official releases from FZ. Once he was shoved into a 12 ft. deep orchestra pit by some a--hole, and injured in a SERIOUS WAY, the Flo & Eddie period abruptly ended & started some of his greatest music. The FZ jazz era begun. He felt he needed another change and again garnered even more interest. Many agree his best work (despite some raunchy humor) started with Overnight Sensation, then Apostrophe ('), Roxy & Elsewhere & One Size Fits All. These albums are simply the appex of FZ for many fans- complicated in nature, but truly enjoyable- but nothing of note for orchestral work on these. London Symphony Orchestra was used, to the man's frustration. He felt that practice time for the LSO was paramount, and spent A LOT OF MONEY to use them; only to discover that players went to the pub during allotted breaks, drank & reflected that during recordings. He had to correct a lot in subsequent post-recording mixing sessions. He swore off name orchestras like LSO afterward in favor of individual players that he could audition. Sight reading & being able to ably play several bars convincingly within a short time on an individual basis became his preferred method of employing folks for future orchestral scores. Much the way he did for his "rock" bands. My favorite example of Zappa's work is possibly "Approximate/The Purple Lagoon" from the 'Zappa in New York' album. Nasty lil' bit of work, followed by a series of lead instruments- firstly a sax lead by Michael Brecker- blazing lead ! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-u_dNjN6dfpY.html I played that solo/lead one time for an accomplished local player to ask him what he'd thought- just knowing he would be very impressed. Once Brecker's part wound down, I asked him his opinion. He looked at me & said, "frozen. He's frozen." Huh ? What the hell does frozen mean, I asked him.... "Cocaine. That guy is on some serious cocaine." I had to laugh at the response, but once he did explain, it made sense. He told me that even through his own experience as a sax player of 25+ years, he knows that at about half way or two thirds of the way through that lead, the notes themselves, the sheer amount of them & the breathing techniques required that Brecker is playing would be physically painful for a player. To play it all the way through would be impossible and only possible with a large dose of cocaine involved so he could continue to play at that level. The lips, cheeks, throat (basically the lower parts of his face, throat) and breathing all would be too painful to endure otherwise... What about other numbing medications for such purposes ?- I asked him. He laughed and said, "dude, he's a jazz & rock 'n roll musician, God are you THAT naive !?!" I've partied since age 13 (I'm now 51...). I had to laugh at my own naivety.... This, he assured me was definitely the case. I've played several instruments in my years, but never brass- I respect this guy & took his word for it... The Brecker Brothers had their own band, as well as in demand studio session players, Aerosmith, Steely Dan & loads of other bands...) This baffled me, knowing that Mr. Zappa was anti-drug. But when thinking about it, Zappa In New York was recorded by a partly one-off, one time band. Most players were part of FZ's then current touring band. For these recordings, he used some players from Paul Schaefer's band, from the Saturday Night Live comedy show. Those players were mainly the brass section. Paul Schaefer was denied the ability to play on the recording, as the incredible Eddie Jobson was already part of Zappa's band. Saturday Night Live's MC, Don Pardo was even used to introduce a few songs & was given lyrics to talk through (versus singing, for comedic effect- it worked !!) I really think you'll enjoy the link here that I provided for you. A good stereo or headphones, of course, will enhance this for you. I enjoyed your overview of his work in this video, and your tutorial & sheet music was sheer fun & insight to those that love Zappa and want to delve more into his characteristics, properties & motivations. Every bit of what you've done takes homework & that effort really, truly is evident- THANK YOU !! I haven't delved into your other videos. That being said, if you have not already- considering producing a series of these videos with FZ's music & the attendant sheet music. For those that can read music, like FZ & want insight and particulars ? You will have created a niche that will see it's rewards. I very much believe this. When people search for Zappa music, your videos should see some daylight & the rest will take care of itself. Those that love him and his work ? Read & play music ? Heck... you'd be a God-send to those people. I'm sure of it !! Now I need to subscribe and make sure I was not redundant !! And again- thank you for your insight to the particulars of his work & the time you put in to it so we are better able to grasp his work. One last thought. If you follow his improvisation in his guitar solos AND TRANSCRIBE HIS SOLOS TO SHEET MUSIC ??!! I'll have to write you off as legitimately insane/nuts and or bananas !! 👊😎 Just kidding, my friend..... Warm regards from Delaware, USA-

I love that Zappa In New York Album - still need to get my hands on the box set they put out last year! You might like some of my other existing videos, I did two others elaborating on the entirety of RDNZL and Rollo, instead of just the little melodic segments discussed in this one, replete with scores. Thanks very much for your enthusiasm, and your subscription!

Yorkshire! I have a theory that when I try to temper my accent, its Old Norse origins and other historical influences are accentuated - I've also been mistaken for Scottish, Swedish, Polish, French, so on and so forth

@@SamuelRHoward I'm not surprised. I'm Finnish-Swedish, and I assumed you were one of us for the first few minutes.

@@SpaceCattttt Thrilled to have received this honorary status, even if it was inadvertantly bestowed!

Glad you liked the analysis, and especially glad you enjoyed my stuff - thanks for giving it your time! I'll definitely examine more of my own stuff on its own merits, especially the stuff I've got slated to record in the near-ish future.

It's from a 1972 audience tape - I can't remember which show (it's now on an old hard drive), but there are a few different versions from that tour which you can find on Zappateers.com (these shows require torrent software for downloading them). There's also a version available on the official "Little Dots" CD which came out a few years back

I think Frank must have known all this stuff on some level - he understood principles of voice leading (even if he didn't know 5th-species counterpoint), and how to construct an effective melody (those chromatic transformations definitely seem to be a habit of FZ's, suggesting that it's a learnt melodic strategy). However, I don't think he actively stressed over every bar like I did when I analysed it - he'll have absorbed those principles when he started learning to write and then he'll have regurgitated them when he needed them, so I'd make a guess that he wrote these melodies quite intuitively (certainly RDNZL at least, which was apparently scribbled down in a rehearsal). I think with these kinds of analyses, it's important to separate the explanation for how/why certain things work from the composers' own method. "How did Zappa think when he wrote?" is more of a historical question, separate from "how/why does this music work?" which is more of a technical question. The two do entangle (if we know FZ's habits, we might find a useful clue as to what to look for in the music), but ultimately, I think they're different questions!

Excellent answer Samuel! I guess I'm more interested in the historical component than the technical one because I already know it works. Very nice insight though, thanks again!

In my opinion, technical analysis is great for pinpointing what works, rather than "if" it works - by reverse-engineering this great work, I hope the stuff that makes it so good makes its way into more music! Thanks for raising an interesting point.

he knew theory

High compliment indeed - cheers!

All of the recordings I have published so far are on my Bandcamp: tinyurl.com/ydx7tpsq Around June/July, I'll also be publishing a new piece which is nearing completion and which features some great musicians (including Filip Fjellstrom on drums, who has published some interesting Zappa-related videos too) - if you like the piece from this video, I think you'll especially enjoy that once it's out. Thanks so much for your interest!

@@SamuelRHoward : Amazing - this vid is a year old - and you responded within the hour... I very much look forward to checking out your original pieces... Cheers!

I'd be silly not to reply. I appreciate you taking the time to go beyond the video to have a look at this stuff - hope it doesn't disappoint! Cheers

www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10374

I play that pattern more or less every time I practice a descending minor pentatonic - what a line

Thanks for watching and for the kind words!

The popular story is that he was arrested for rearranging the US' national anthem, but this supposedly isn't actually true. Apparently, this photo is just from his visa application! www.classicalwcrb.org/post/stravinskys-run-boston-police#stream/0

@@SamuelRHoward On the website you mention many other composers who once were arrested can be found , but the arrest of Zappa in 1965 isn,t mentioned. Their bad !

Thanks very much, glad you enjoyed. And I agree, I think Zappa's style is just so compelling - it's its own language and feels like it occupies its own world, so when you've spent a lot of time with it and then go back to other music, it can feel a bit like ending a holiday only to come back to the relative banality of life at home

@@SamuelRHoward One of my other favorites is King Crimson. Have you done, or ever considered doing a musical analysis on them? I've heard probably most of the prog-rock, and no one else is as compelling imo. I also love Shakti with John McLaughlin, particularly their songs with flute (I play flute).

I've not actually heard much of King Crimson's stuff, but what I have heard I've liked, so an analysis isn't entirely off the cards. And much respect for flautists - I tried to play one once and my embouchure was awful, so I couldn't even get a steady tone!

Thank you very much!

Cheers - and you're not wrong. Have slightly upgraded audio recording quality since this video, but still need to invest in the pop filter - I'll make it a priority!

My guess is he did know a lot about theory but being the genius he was he must’ve done a lot of this stuff so effortlessly without thinking much about the logic behind it...

He certainly knew the theory I discussed - his thought process probably didn't resemble my analysis, but as I said to somebody else who had a similar point "what is a piece made of and how does it work?" is a very different (and in my opinion, more pragmatic) question than "how did FZ think about his writing?", even though the latter is still a valuable question, and the two can entangle.

@@SamuelRHoward Exactly right. All analysis is hindsight and never pretends to mimic the compositional process,. To say that "Frank didn't compose it with the intent congruent with this analysis" is a given - no serious theorist would ever think he did! BTW you did a great job, nice to finally see someone who actually understands how melody works make a video. I'm surprised to see you only have @450 subscribers. I figured you would have half a mil at least

@@DanielSchorr Thank you very much - and 6 days ago I only had about 150 subscribers, so let's hope the figure continues to rise!

zappa did compose piece meal with decades between some pieces.

Yes, it's one of my favourite pieces, and though I've yet to transcribe it, it's on the list. The Hal Leonard books are generally quite inaccurate, shockingly so at times - the version of "Rollo Interior" in the Apostrophe book has at least 4 errors in it that I can think of (including the use of 4/4 instead of 2/4). I'd always rely on my own transcriptions rather than those books, and I'd encourage others to do the same!

Yeah, it's interesting that quite a bit of his work appears isomelodic (Oh No & Big Swifty maybe being two of the most obvious examples), and he seems to have liked inversions like the one in this video (there's a similar moment in Zomby Woof). Seems like some of his teenage serial practices never completely disappeared! Thanks for the comment and clarification (and incidentally, I watched a video the other week where you were exploring some of Barry Harris' ideas on the piano - useful and clearly-expressed, look forwards to seeing more).

@@SamuelRHoward Thanks. Other than the end of Big Swifty, the most obvious use of isomelic writing (to me) is Inca Roads. His teenage influences remained important to his music all the way through his career. I was thinking earlier today about just how deeply he was influenced by Stravinsky (and not just the obvious things that sound influenced by him, like Revised Music For Guitar And Low Budget Orchestra, but the very nature of Frank's "poly-stylistic" music, where any type of harmonic climate may be juxtaposed with any other sort of harmonic climate, seems very highly related to his early exposure to/obsession with Stravinsky's music.) I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say about the Rollo end section, which has always been one of my favorite bits of Frank'z music (it's why I prefer the 77 versions of the Yellow Snow Suite to the studio version). Also, I was thinking about maybe doing a video about "America Drinks" if you aren't already planning on analyzing that one.

@@billgrahammusic Yeah, Inca is an interesting one - especially taking into account how he developed the structure by using his typical isomelic procedure to create the intro and thereby frame the middle section, which up until then had served as the main body of the piece, as an interlude. What I like about it is that there is little padding - other than the solos and 7/16 interlude, all of the material is directly derived from that first, pretty short melody - very focused writing. And re. Stravinsky, I agree - "Symphonies of Wind Instruments" in particular reminds me of some of FZ's practices (especially facets of the Capitol version of Lumpy Gravy). Look forwards to seeing how you approach "America Drinks", especially given that it was openly a parody of jazz. I'm mainly working through the transcriptions I've made at the moment (of which there are many, but America Drinks isn't one of them - until I get onto the orchestral stuff, I think I'm largely focusing on Grand/Petit Wazoo and Roxy-era stuff, with some early Mothers thrown in).

The tuplety thing when Frank says "Chester's Thing!" is isomelic to the thing that plays before and after the guitar solo.

Ruth had a lot on her plate with this stuff and dealt with it beautifully! Rollo Interior in particular is quite tough

Definitely interested in looking at The Black Page in more detail (my first ever video uses a bar from it as an example of how to counted nested tuplets) - I'll probably do a feature on the development of FZ's rhythmic writing at some point

I know the interviews you're talking about, so you're absolutely right about his influences not being solely contemporary, and of course he received instruction from Karl Kohn and was familiar with Walter Piston's "Harmony" textbook (even if he found it dry and boring), so he seems to have had some background in traditional harmony, which does occasionally show. But I think I would question exactly how much these older influences manifest in his harmonic language, structurally, at least. Early on he wrote a letter to Varese excitedly purporting to have developed a serial technique he called an "inversion square", and we can hear in the Mt. St. Mary's Q&A, he seems to have been more actively engaged in more contemporary methods, so in tunes like Rollo, I think whilst we can hear some older influences in the contrapuntal aesthetics and parallel 4ths, I might personally consider some of these features to be a little more surface level, and secondary to some of the more contemporary structures he seemed to employ in piece like this.

@@SamuelRHoward I also think Chopin might make sense too with respect to his use of polyrhythms. Just a thought.

Was planning on covering Moggio at some point, so WNIB is almost certainly on the cards. The list is ever-growing!

I'm a little bit confused as to why Opeth would particularly come to mind when discussing Zappa...(?) And, as enjoyably familiar as I am with Hot Rats, I'm not exactly familiar enough with its predecessors to know how it might compare to them. Not sure if I would consider MAYH to be so much of a defining moment *maturity-wise,* but I would say that it clearly was when the production standards improved the most. An old friend of mine--who definitely served as the catalyst between us, when we were first getting into particularly Opeth in the late '90s--would argue that Morningrise was a better album. But I think he's blinded somewhat by his nostalgia perhaps? He argues that the production quality on MAYH is overrated, and that it's comparable to Metallica's "AJFA" in certain ways. He will admit that the performance quality was at least an obvious improvement on MAYH, but he won't change his opinion about it having some issues. (Whatever those might be?) At any rate, we both agree that Still Life was the group's definitive epicenter, with Blackwater Park being barely shy of that same status. This is clearly more than just our shared opinion, as I've not only payed careful attention to the blatant statistics, but have also looked into the reasons various Opeth fans base their differing preferences. Nevertheless, I personally find it quite easy to pick MAYH (or perhaps Deliverance?) over Morningrise, as far as the third most important Opeth record is concerned.

Even though Lumpy Gravy was already out?

I used to animate scores when I edited most of my previous videos, but this proved to be incredibly time-consuming, and added hours onto the editing process. As with this video, I still display the score, but I've begun merely editing the page-turns and have foregone the animation, although I will always annotate the scores as I have done here, during analysis. With regards to the legal aspects of this, I'm confident that I'm safe - I'm analysing excerpts, my videos are transformative, they could not function as a market replacement for any recordings (and there are no official commercially available analyes, hence why I am doing these videos), and I've also begun using my own recordings (in response to my video on "RDNZL", which received a copyright claim due to my use of excerpts from copyrighted recordings).

Examination of Zappa's work - or at least the volume of work I've looked at in detail - doesn't seem to reveal much implementation of standard functional harmony (although it isn't entirely absent), and as there wasn't a great deal of pre-20th C classical music that interested him (other than, I believe, a few late Romantic composers), I think it's reasonable to assume that he didn't study the minutiae of common practice harmony (which is not to say he didn't have a fairly good, broad grasp of it - we know he was familiar with texts like Piston). This is supported by its marked absence in his own compositions. His earlier chamber works (World's Greatest Sinner, Mount. St. Mary's, early versions of 200 Motels, etc) do seem aesthetically consistent with the claims he made about what interested him and what kind of music he studied. I would recommend Brett Clement's writing - he has examined FZ's idiosyncracies in very good, careful detail.

@@SamuelRHoward I don't think this kind of analysis is going to point to that. However, FZ spent quite a bit of time playing in jazz settings (though he also disavowed the benefits of that experience). Looking at RDNZL, there's a lot to get out of that sequence from a jazz musician's perspective that is overlooked or not emphasized in the video - especially since the *sound* of that section is so similar with what was going on simultaneously in the music of George Russell, Bill Evans, Wayne Shorter and the like. I think FZ's harmonic understanding came about the same way most of his peers did - not through classical music, but through the most harmonically sophisticated jazz of the late 1950's & 60's.

@@DrScarbro I'd agree with that - despite the disparaging remarks he made towards jazz, he was actively engaged with it to some degree since the late '50s/very early '60s at least (as far as I'm aware), which I'm sure was reinforced when Don Preston joined The Mothers, but which would have surely been doubly reinforced when he started playing regularly with Jean-Luc Ponty and George Duke. I think FZ's melodic style is very distinct from jazz in many regards, though (especially since jazz was supposedly not one of his early interests), but I agree it might have been worthwhile to draw certain comparisons given how much of it was in his environment, and how much of it he would have absorbed.

well this is his greatest strength...he self taught himself musical theory and was not constrained by standards as far as harmony was concerned....

@@SamuelRHoward zappa loved jazz in the sense of tradition and his now famous saying that its not dead but smells funny was him sadly expressing his disdain for what many considered it should be...

J it’s mostly a vamp on Dflat minor 7 to Dnatural major 7 sharp 11 with a triplet feel. The ending part is kinda different and I haven’t figured it out yet. I also haven’t transcribed the entire guitar improv (just little bits). What I hear is that there is some blues type playing in Dflat which outlines the Phrygian mode and the Lydian mode a half step up.

Thanks ever so much, I appreciate you taking the time to watch the video. Unfortunately, the scores aren't currently available - I transcribed them myself, but I'm reluctant to make them public, as since the ZFT has a reputation for being litigious, I don't want to give them a reason to get annoyed at my videos (since my videos show most of the scores and talk about them in detail, I think it's better not to give them further reason to try and strike them off RU-vid, as some companies and labels do on occasion when it comes to this type of content!)

I agree that G7alt isn't an entirely satisfactory descriptor (hence my careful use of the question mark), but I do insist that the G in the bass is a very strong and intentional reference to V - this seems structurally important to me, because FZ does finally settle on the Bb2 from C mixolydian, which feels much more conclusive than the Bb2/G, so I think that the G in the bass changes the chord's character enough for it to be considered a very distinct, separate sonority from Bb2 (and for its function to be considered different to that of the bVII he eventually settles on). Thanks for spotting this issue, though - I've noticed that Zappa seems to generally avoid using dominant 7 chords (not altogether, but they don't seem to show up in these kinds of pieces), and I wonder if instances like this Bb2/G are efforts to hint at a similar function whilst avoiding a typical V7 sonority.

@@SamuelRHoward Great video ideed! Thanks for the awesome work! Yea, I would have a problem hearing it as G-alt. As with a lot of Zappas music I hear a lot of ”lydian” sonorities in this piece and to my ears this sounds like a ”Bb-Lydian sound” over G. The Gm being the minor parallel to Bb acting as a ”subtle” sub. 1. Cmaj(no 7th or 6th) sound over Bb2, giving it a Bb lydian(or #4) sound. 2. G in the bass making it sort of Gm11, but more important acting as a sub to Bb2 and acting as a V(minor) to C. I also think he was quite fond of the V chord being minor, as in the unaltered Mixolydian and Dorian modes that he used quite a bit. That’s just my two cents. Cheers and thanks again for the great content. :) Subbed!

@The Wizard I think this is a good reading of that chord and its function, thanks for the contribution. I would pin this comment, as I think it's a useful insight, and better than the one I offered in the video - however, I can't find the option to do this in its usual place (my comments seem to be generally acting up slightly at the minute, so hopefully this will resolve itself soon).