How Do ARROWS Fly?? (Tips for Improving Arrow Flight!) 

Right?!?! It's stuff archers have done for a long time. I didn't know how to explain that it was rear lift rather than drag as well, but from shooting and experimenting enough I came to the conclusion that for my more unstable arrows, add larger feathers. Even back to my old compound bows, I shot heavy arrows when overdrawn and speed were the only thing people cared about. I took numerous deer 50 yards out even if my arrows did a 10-12 ft ark (my shooting was better than my stand placement...lol).

I'm new to archery, especially bowhunting. But I'm not new to history. It was awesome when I found out about all of these guys talking about heavy arrows. The thing that came to mind, when I first heard Troy talking about the Ashby research, were historical archers. Essentially, he just empirically confirmed what cultures around the world had known for hundreds or thousands of years. Relatively few cultures put much focus on having fast and light arrows.

Probably wondering at what point the arrow goes through ETL😂

That's been my experience as well. I've never heard it discussed within the archery community. Fun fact, I gave this presentation formally at ATA in Louisville this past January. A few notable attendees were in the audience, but the total attendance was on the order of only 20 people out thousands of people in the archery industry that were at the show. So I decided, with Troy's and Aaron's blessing, to give it again here in a more casual setting, where tens of thousands of people can see it and learn from it. Thanks for your comment.

Or you can just shoot a heavier poundage bow like some of us do and shoot 570-600 grain arrows north of 300 fps. Granted not many targets stand up for long with the kinetic energy momentum those generate.

@@caninphx Now that I'd like to see...a true 600+ grain arrow north of 300 through a chronograph, not someone guessing it's speed.

Everyone else can see its a joke right? lols

​@@Tbowie13 I have seen 90lbs compound doing 314 fps

@@licensetochill79 I'm not sayin it's not possible. There are very few men who genuinely can shoot a 90# bow, and actually have business doing it. I hung drywall all my life and worked in an archery shop, so I could do it, but never really saw the need to. If I were hunting dangerous game, I'd consider it, but my bows, (65# Trophy Hunter I've had since I was 12 (38 yrs now) a 75# Browning, a 70# Pearson Dagger, a 70# Mathews Vertix and 2 Predator recurves, one at 47# and one at 56#) have done me justice. All of em have done their fair share share of killin deer, hogs and coyotes, the recurves even crows and pheasants. There's a few turkey in there too.

Letting everyone know this is a scam if you happen to receive it too.

There are two ways it's defined in the literature, both ways are coordinate system based. In the Wind Axis, the drag is inline with the relative wind, and the lift is perpendicular to the relative wind. So at small angles of attack (the angle between the shaft centerline and the incoming relative wind), the drag line of action is very close to lying along the shaft, and the lift is very nearly perpendicular to the shaft. At large angles of attack the drag is not in-line with the shaft, it is angled away from the body. The discussion here in this podcast episode focuses on small angles of attack. The second way (and technically correct for calculating center of pressure) is to utilize the Body Axis definition - Here the Axial Force is defined to be along the body regardless of the angle of attack, and the Normal Force is perpendicular to the body. Both are useful definitions - typically airplane designers will use the wind axis coordinate system, while projectile designers will use the body axis system. I use Lift and Drag here only because it is easier to get the point across, and for small angles of attack Lift is approximately = Normal Force, and the Drag Force is approximately = Axial Force. Yes that's a lot to chew on, so here's a decent reference that may help: www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/q0194.shtml I hope that helps! Let me know if that is not clear. D-

@@darrelbarnette3216 Awesome, thank you. I think you illustrated it well in the video but didn't really explain at that point that, and I suspect this is very important, at small angles of attack, the drag line of action is very close to lying along the shaft. And, as you pointed out - and very important as well - that at these angles the lift is very nearly perpendicular to the shaft. Thank you for the link as well. Appreciate your time in replying and the timeliness, thanks. -mike

This was really interesting to me. Did you test this at all? Does left helical and bevel make a difference? Most arrows clock left from what I understand.

I don't think it's possible to do. Too many variables.

@@bakters Has to be! The testing and calculations would be physically exhausting though 😆

@@codysimon6-32 The calculations themselves may not be too bad to do. It's the variables we can't control for that make it hell. You'd have to guess on what the "average" perturbation may be (while most likely being very wrong) and do that multiple times, with the errors compounding on top of each other... In practice, all you can do is overcompensate. A lot of FOC, lots of fletching, some helical and plenty of TLC. Such is life. But then, if it was easy everybody could do it, so you'd likely find something actually difficult to challenge yourself, would you not? ;-)

I think I got it from a line in The Chosen. I'll go check out Bob Lazar! Thanks!

Don't be too discouraged. People are just too closed minded to things different to "what works for them"

Exactly, and as a provider of a service they should help the customer with what there looking to do. I think they don't want to spend the time to do so.

Subscribe to his channel he has step by step in each video where you can get the front of Center heavy setup don't be intimidated. Rocket Man talks over 80% of everyone's head including myself. Bottom line is heavy arrow setups that he's preaching "that AT shows & some pro shops hate" is that heavy setup will do the damage you need to be done when you make that less than "perfect shot" that you need to kill the animal because no matter what kind of Arrow or bullet you're shooting it's all about what you hit in that animal.

Absolutely do not be discouraged, I made the step in that direction this year. Go to your archery shop pick out that arrow brand that your prefer, get them cut to your length and build them yourself. Troy does have a great step by step process like another person said to you and another thing reach out to him if you are having some problems and ask him questions. I sure did and he help me walk through it and get awesome arrow flight. His response are quick to. Good luck to you and take pride in something that you can build and harvest an animal with.

Keep trying and learn more on your own or from these guys. Never let a closed mind stop you brother!

No research that I have found in the open literature - the rails don't hold the arrow down but they do limit side to side motion, so bending could still occur in the vertical plane away from the rails. I've wondered if you could have a bristle brush the full length of the rail to hold the arrow to the rail, which would likely help, but I haven't seen any manufacturers try that. I'm not up on the latest cross bow developments as things are changing so fast in that sector.

Excellent!

We have taken video of that exact situation. The broadhead will fight the fletching if the bh is trying to turn one way, and the fletching is trying to turn the opposite way. The bh will turn opposite of the bevel, so a bevel on the left side will turn the bh to the right.

My understanding from the video is both. The weight of the nocks would affect the center of gravity and their shape would impact how much lift they generated and the center of pressure.

I'm using the HMR 4 fletch and Iron Will single bevel (150grain). They fly really well. If your HMRs haven't shipped yet it might be worth changing to 4 fletch.

I was wondering how much difference this makes. I was told most bow strings are twisted right so most arrows clock left