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How do black holes actually interact with matter? | Michelle Thaller 

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Is information intrinsic in our universe? NASA’s Michelle Thaller explains.
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❍ Up next:A 9-minute journey inside a black hole | Janna Levin • A 9-minute journey ins...
How do black holes store information? Is the universe a hologram? How can we use what we know about energy and mass to begin approaching the idea of virtual particles?
NASA astronomer Michelle Thaller unpacks these questions and more in less than eight minutes.
We know that matter cannot be created nor destroyed, but what about information? Michelle explains that matter and information are a lot more connected than we think, and this has massive implications on our understanding of black holes, particle physics, and our universe as a whole.
Read the full video transcript: bigthink.com/the-well/how-bla...
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3 мар 2024

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Комментарии : 110   
@elmoteroloco
@elmoteroloco 2 месяца назад
The genius Dr. Thaller in one of the most difficult astrophysics topics you can find. Madam, you are endowed with a teaching talent at least as great as your scientific knowledge. Deeply grateful!
@VonW0lf3N5t31N
@VonW0lf3N5t31N 2 месяца назад
So Dr. Thaller is one of the most difficult astrophysics topics you can find? Wow! Now that's a complicated lady!
@elmoteroloco
@elmoteroloco 2 месяца назад
@@VonW0lf3N5t31N traduttore traditore...
@Son_of_Bayonetta
@Son_of_Bayonetta 2 месяца назад
Cannot emphasize enough just how important this channel is. Thank you for making such incredible information both readily available, and digestible.
@The-Well
@The-Well 2 месяца назад
This is such a kind thing to say. Thank you for being here, you are so appreciated!
@Godric_71
@Godric_71 2 месяца назад
I love Dr. Thaller. I've watched her on "How The Universe Works" for nearly a decade.
@The-Well
@The-Well 2 месяца назад
She’s one of our favorite guests on the channel!
@Godric_71
@Godric_71 2 месяца назад
@The-Well Mine, too. She explains everything in a way that helps average people understand.
@justicewillprevail1106
@justicewillprevail1106 2 месяца назад
I love the way she explain things. So clear and so easy to understand.
@gruniach9681
@gruniach9681 2 месяца назад
Thanks. Very interesting!
@The-Well
@The-Well 2 месяца назад
Thanks for watching! 💡
@souravbhattacharya4188
@souravbhattacharya4188 Месяц назад
Hi Michelle. I have a question. Why does the neutron stars and stellar black holes not face the final parsec problem? Is it because of the distance smaller than the final parsec? Don't they eject out materials due to dynamical friction?
@Mitch_De_Jong
@Mitch_De_Jong 2 месяца назад
There is a good world science festival lecture on this. Forgot with whom but also warped passages by Lisa Randall is a good book with that. I find the nature of Gods design so compelling I love science!!
@portalsandmagicghostnumbercube
@portalsandmagicghostnumbercube 2 месяца назад
I suggest an amended Holographic Principle. A dual inverse pair of principles! An Invisible/Holographic Principle! A duality within a duality! Dual-horizons. The Holographic Principle works well in our own universe, but what's beyond the cosmic horizon? We need a more encompassing Invisible/Holographic Principle of the Multiverse!
@saraswati_6171
@saraswati_6171 2 месяца назад
What if there is an information field? Not the information we get at the speed of light, but a field behind the scene that seems instant to us.
@peteclark9
@peteclark9 2 месяца назад
I like the comparison of information to energy. Examples given of information of atoms: angular momentum, charge, mass, and all sorts of little bits of information (kinda circular reference here). At the quantum level there are different amounts of energy; there are different probabilities. Information in some ways is a form of energy. The definition of information is pretty vague. I would think that it deserves a better definition. Also, is some ways information is a form of energy. Please give me one example where information is not a form of energy. I think if terms are better defined we will see an information energy equivalence.
@ScreamingTurtle1
@ScreamingTurtle1 2 месяца назад
Alright, stars of 2-3 solar masses seem to be the baseline for a black hole to manifest cosmically. Is it possible to coax a black hole into maintaining and manifesting for long enough in the hadron collider? Just start feeding it little incremental bits of steel maybe...
@jocelyndambrosio7794
@jocelyndambrosio7794 5 дней назад
⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️
@joshuamowdy9230
@joshuamowdy9230 2 месяца назад
Hello. So.. the idea is instead of the event horizon being represented like a record. With a record player. Perhaps all the black holes and white holes are projecting that light. And recycling it to actually create the visuals we are experiencing... I'm just saying. Check the maths... Good luck.
@kittythepet485
@kittythepet485 2 месяца назад
This information might not be lost, but an outside observer could take exceedingly long periods of time to extract that information as the only photons left carrying that information lose intensity and are stretched by spacetime warping?
@Manicksplaining
@Manicksplaining 2 месяца назад
I can't stop thinking about quantum gravity, ads cft correspondence, quantum field theory, quantum mechanics, cosmology, chemistry, abiogenisis, genetics, natural selection, biology, psychology, consciousness
@gocto1278
@gocto1278 2 месяца назад
Take some time to connect with nature, too much rumination on all the answers will drive you mad, trust me
@Son_of_Bayonetta
@Son_of_Bayonetta 2 месяца назад
​@@gocto1278 This ^^^^ as enthralling as it is to give contemplation to these ideas, you have to know when to return to the "right now, right here", otherwise you can really exhaust yourself
@Rokbraker
@Rokbraker 2 месяца назад
It's all connected...
@airahayashi2919
@airahayashi2919 2 месяца назад
Study physics then
@Manicksplaining
@Manicksplaining 2 месяца назад
@gocto1278 nature is the palet cleanse
@heristyono4755
@heristyono4755 2 месяца назад
2:33 She said "planet" Pluto. What does that mean?
@Nutty...
@Nutty... 2 месяца назад
It means she's human and she made a mistake referring to Pluto as a planet.
@thomasgade226
@thomasgade226 2 месяца назад
a little inadverdent controversy adds attention
@BruceLeon83
@BruceLeon83 2 месяца назад
Haha. Yes I caught that too. 🪐
@heristyono4755
@heristyono4755 2 месяца назад
I was just wondering if this video was taken in the 90s.
@mcgritty8842
@mcgritty8842 2 месяца назад
Came to say that we know absolutely nothing aboht black holes and we should stop theorizing about it so we can pretend to know. It’s kinda scary if you think about it. “Just believe everything I say because you can’t prove it otherwise, even though there is 0 evidence to prove me correct”
@shawns0762
@shawns0762 2 месяца назад
Black holes are based on a mathematical misconception. General Relativity predicts dilation not singularities. In the 1939 journal "Annals of Mathematics" Einstein wrote - "The essential result of this investigation is a clear understanding as to why the Schwarzchild singularities (Schwarzchild was the first to raise the issue of General Relativity predicting singularities) do not exist in physical reality. Although the theory given here treats only clusters (star clusters) whose particles move along circular paths it does seem to be subject to reasonable doubt that more general cases will have analogous results. The Schwarzchild singularities do not appear for the reason that matter cannot be concentrated arbitrarily. And this is due to the fact that otherwise the constituting particles would reach the velocity of light." He was referring to the phenomenon of dilation (sometimes called gamma or y) mass that is dilated is smeared through spacetime relative to an outside observer. It's the phenomenon behind the phrase "mass becomes infinite at the speed of light". Time dilation is just one aspect of dilation, it's not just time that gets dilated. Dilation will occur wherever there is an astronomical quantity of mass because high mass means high momentum. It's the original and correct explanation for why we cannot see light from the galactic center. It can be inferred mathematically that the mass from our own galactic center must be dilated. In other words that mass is all around us. This is the explanation for the abnormally high rotation rates of stars in spiral galaxies. The "missing mass" is dilated mass. Dilation does not occur in galaxies with low mass centers because they do not have enough mass to achieve relativistic velocities. To date, 6 very low mass galaxies have been confirmed to show no signs of dark matter. This also explains why all planets and binary stars have normal rotation rates, not 3 times normal. There was clarity in astronomy before television and movies began to popularize singularities in the 1960's. Einstein is known to have repeatedly said that they cannot exist. Nobody believed in them when he was alive including Plank, Bohr, Schrodinger, Dirac, Heisenberg, Feynman etc.
@guaromiami
@guaromiami 2 месяца назад
I didn't know Mariel Hemingway was moonlighting as a physicist.
@williamkjband
@williamkjband 2 месяца назад
My theory Is that black holes Will eat each other until everything Is compressed and start a new big bang out of " nowhere"
@marmarlittlechick
@marmarlittlechick 2 месяца назад
Maybe, but only if it doesn't throw the balance of the universe off.
@crimlum5224
@crimlum5224 2 месяца назад
The mass density of the universe is most likely too light for that to happen. The geometry of the universe is fundamentally tied to the gravity of everything within it; and the universe literally doesn’t have enough mass in it for the gravity of all its contents to exceed the strength of the cosmological constant. :)
@batchimegdamdindorj8557
@batchimegdamdindorj8557 2 месяца назад
Physical world is not solid ? But a projection all the Hindu scriptures knew all of this but I’m still in awe of how the physics will reconcile with the spiritual teachings we’re coming to a beautiful conclusion as a species for once !
@guaromiami
@guaromiami 2 месяца назад
Maybe it's not that matter and energy are unable to escape a black hole; maybe that's where they go to escape this universe.
@PURE.EVIL.
@PURE.EVIL. 2 месяца назад
How can you make energy from mass? Is it possible to annihilate mass to produce energy?
@thedeemon
@thedeemon 2 месяца назад
A good way is to collide matter with antimatter. When a massive particle meets a massive anti-particle, they often annihilate and produce other less massive particles, or more often even massless particles - photons, such that total energy and momentum is conserved, and the rest energy that was in the mass of original particles (via E=mc^2) turns into kinetic energy of final particles (photons or others).
@KasDlonewolf
@KasDlonewolf 2 месяца назад
Yes, nuclear fusion like in our famous bombs and fission like in the Sun. Keep seeking!🎉
2 месяца назад
Makes me miss Orbital Path!
@shawnouellette1953
@shawnouellette1953 2 месяца назад
Spacetime is like a mirror. A 3 way mirror.
@denyshevtsov
@denyshevtsov 2 месяца назад
We have Cloud storage now we have Black Hole 🕳 storage. Secure Black Hole storage for all your file .It's nice to know that I will exist forever 🎉
@MrSindala
@MrSindala 2 месяца назад
The map is not the territory. The description of the thing is not the thing. Information is not the Universe. In these theories I miss the distinction between reality as it 'is' and the internal representation we make in our minds; our model of reality. I have the idea these two get confused or conflated all the time. Maybe the new physics is one where we don't do that?
@bobbrian6526
@bobbrian6526 2 месяца назад
from the POV of anything outside a black hole time slows to a stop at the event horizon. That means for anything well away from the black hole nothing ever happens inside the black hole, or has ever happened, and nothing will ever cross the event horizon. That means that a black hole can never grow - the size of the event horizon depends on the mass inside. So how can black holes be different in size? Could it be we have misunderstood the way they were formed?
@mcgritty8842
@mcgritty8842 2 месяца назад
Anything we think we know about black holes is 100% theorestical, so nobody knows what happens outside or near it. There is no data to suggest anything actually happens. Science is great, but often used as a way to cope with things too big for us to answer/understand. How long ago did humans think Earth was the center of the universe?
@thedeemon
@thedeemon 2 месяца назад
Imagine a black hole of mass M and corresponding radius R. A small body of mass m needs finite time to get close to the horizon but still be outside. Now there's mass M+m to which a new larger radius R' = 2G(M+m)/c^2 corresponds, so we get a new larger horizon without that body having to cross the old horizon. This way BH grows.
@bobbrian6526
@bobbrian6526 2 месяца назад
@@thedeemon so 100% of the mass of a black hole is in the shell, since there is never a time when time does not slow and stop at the event horizon. But there is a problem with your reasoning, the size of the event horizon is determined by the mass inside, not by the mass at or outside - but no mass can ever get inside
@thedeemon
@thedeemon 2 месяца назад
@@bobbrian6526 Each new piece m is outside the old horizon and inside the new larger one. Also, where stuff is "now" depends a lot on choice of frame of reference. What seems true for a static outside observer is not what a falling observer sees. Simultaneity is relative.
@bobbrian6526
@bobbrian6526 2 месяца назад
​@@thedeemon Im talking about an outside observer. Each new bit of matter never crosses the event horizon from the POV of an outside observer, so the event horizon never expands, so all black holes should stay the size they were from the moment they were created
@keithwilson1554
@keithwilson1554 2 месяца назад
Before the Big Bang whatever was there was no Third Dimension. My Analogy is that when the Big Bang happened if slowed down would look like a slowed down video of an explosion where you see most of it accelerating out only slowed down by the resistance of our atmosphere and gravity which didn't exist at the Big Bang. But collisions happened with whatever contained the explosion in the first place. This was enough to form the 3-D Universe we live in now which is the slowed down matter of the original WHATEVER Dimension we came from. Dark Matter, Black Holes all the things we can't see or see into are the original faster than light universe that existed prior to the big bang. And Black Holes are an attempt by the Original source of everything trying to recapture our 3-D Universe back to where it belongs.
@MrGriff305
@MrGriff305 2 месяца назад
A.I. will figure it all out in 2034
@MrGriff305
@MrGriff305 2 месяца назад
sounds like a computer simulation to me 😅
@mykrahmaan3408
@mykrahmaan3408 2 месяца назад
There is only one way how knowledge can be made TANGIBLE: GET RID OF WAVE PARTICLE DUALITY by associating all abstract words, especially the DIGITS we imagine when we calculate (NUMBER not NUMERAL), with PLANTS ~ the only entity from which we derive all the MATTER (food and oxygen) that compose all our thoughts. We can only do this if we imagine all of them (the 10 digits: 0 to 9) to be unique particles associable with unique type of plants from which we eat: RICE, CABBAGE, WHEAT, MAIZE, etc. One for each digit uniquely fixed. We must then substitute the abstract words (for example: one, eins, один for the digit "1" in English, German, Russian accordingly) with the single word RICE (not translatable anymore ~ just like the Indo-arabic numerals are used by all at present). If we fix ten plants to substitute the ten digits and associate also unique type of particles, say ten quanta of light (as the smallest of them all) of ten different sizes (instead of wavelengths, as "waves" are totally excluded from the concept of fundamental entities), then we can integrate arithmetic and all languages as branches of GEOPHYSICS that enable describing development of plants from soil and subsequent growth of food on them as well as release of oxygen from them as functions of particle interactions inside the earth, to then trace the real plant from which the food we ate and the air we inhaled (which enabled the calculation) originated. As the quanta of light that enable us to visualize the digits are unique particles, the meaning of 1 unit of MASS can now be related to C^2 = 300 000 × 300 000 = 90 000 000 000 particles that originated from any of the ten food plants and/or oxygen releaser plants each person fixed as corresponding to the ten digits. Which of the ten REALLY initiated my calculation could then be verified when I really trace the plant from which my food and/or oxygen came. Obviously the source plant for the same digit would be different for different persons depending on what one ate, the source plant of oxygen one inhaled, how one digested it and imagined the events that enabled relevant calculations. There are no complicated laboratory experiments and/or observations needed to PROVE accuracy of this if I can really influence RETRACEABLY the plant from which I received the food and/or inhaled the oxygen as results of that calculation itself.
@oscarmora4919
@oscarmora4919 2 месяца назад
Planet Pluto?
@DukeofEarl
@DukeofEarl 2 месяца назад
At t= 2:35 she called Phuto a planet. My oh my, she is going to start a war 😂
@TaimazHavadar
@TaimazHavadar 2 месяца назад
بابا این مستندای قدیمیه شما که خیلی هم عالیه هنوز داره همه جا پخش میشه تو دنیا👍🙏 ولی یک ایراد دارد و مردم عامی و بعضا تحصیلکرده فقط بخش شانسی به و جود اومدنشون رو از اونها میفهمند و نتیجه میگیرند 😂 نمیخوای جدیدش رو بسازی؟💚🙏
@josephrittenhouse5839
@josephrittenhouse5839 2 месяца назад
Allright, I'm going to like and subscribe you right now, because I DO want to hear what you say. I think you play a little fast and loose with some of your statements, however, you don't get six years to explain this all in a You Tube Video. However, at 3:20 you start talking about what Stephen Hawking says about what happens at the Event Horizon, but you use the example of virtual particles. As I understand the argument Hawking made (which I can't understand) had nothing to do with virtual particles. Physicists talk about Virtual particles because explaining Unruh radiation instead gets really complex. At the event horizon....which unruly framework do you use? Particle Physics? Relativity? A lot of hand waving goes on about these things being equivalent, except we can't make them so when we get to the chalkboard...so...we can't have an Einstein and eat it too, especially in this case. This IS the question, unlike Einstein we can't assume an equivalency principle we haven't earned. It might SEEM more convenient to invoke virtual particles because we have better evidence for it than Unruh radiation. In truth, we don't have anything solid on either one. What we have is an agreement that even if two physicists disagree on how "real" virtual particles are, they can agree on how USEFUL it is to talk about them. Much more useful than talking about Unruh Radiation. Do you see where I'm headed with this? ...because I can't. and I think that is the point. Also, at 7:40 we're talking about the "Firewall" as being a "sphere of information" at the event horizon because "time stops" due to the gravitational force (even though gravity is only a force as described by Newton, who himself expressed reservations about, and Einstein reframes as a topography, and the "force" isn't a force at all), and the thought is that the information should be there... Unless you are the inertial framework which is passing through this boundary. If you are the inertial framework passing through the event horizon, you can't tell where the boundary is. Likewise, all inertial frameworks outside the event horizon have no access to the information at the event horizon. Doesn't it seem silly that we invoke an equivalency principle between Unruh radiation and Virtual particles which we cannot demonstrate on the chalkboard, but ignore THIS equivalency principle in which one inertial framework cannot tell where the horizon is, and the other can't get information from it? This sounds suspiciously like the old relativity paradoxes which arise by confusing one's own inertial framework as being more legitimate than another's? These aren't criticisms. I genuinely am not following the logic on this.
@TaimazHavadar
@TaimazHavadar 2 месяца назад
ساسکیند یه چیزهایی رو درست فهمیده 👍👍
@MichelleCarithersAuthor
@MichelleCarithersAuthor 2 месяца назад
like this conversation.....put aside the theories of former minds such as Hawkings, Einstein and maybe we can "evolve" further in our quest to "understand" the universe
@DanielNistrean
@DanielNistrean 2 месяца назад
Information is not destroyed. Singularity is the result of an incomplete theory.
@Nobodysbby
@Nobodysbby 2 месяца назад
Area of space where it's curved and we can't "get out ".. See now can someone explain that to me. What does she mean by you can get out of it .
@Tomonaroll
@Tomonaroll 2 месяца назад
It means that fabric of spacetime at the event horizon is so dense (gravity is so strong) that the escape velocity is greater than or equal to the speed of light (current universal speed limit)
@Tomonaroll
@Tomonaroll 2 месяца назад
Oo and check out accretion discs , they are something like: a region around the event horizon which matter can be trapped and orbit near the speed of light, but can still escape given enough velocity, or from a diversion of energy, in jets of high energy bursts! and photon spheres are cool too, the equivalent but for photons of light!
@bobbrian6526
@bobbrian6526 2 месяца назад
think of it like the gravity holding you down on earth. With enough energy you can get enough speed to get into orbit, with even more energy and speed you can escape the orbit. For a black hole there is no amount of energy that will get you out once you get too close...how close? that is the event horizon
@Tomonaroll
@Tomonaroll 2 месяца назад
@@bobbrian6526oo but also hawking radiation can be a way to escape black holes, so cool check it out!
@mcgritty8842
@mcgritty8842 2 месяца назад
⁠@@bobbrian6526what evidence proved this? What has gone into a black hole that we’ve seen this happen to?
@ellejane6667
@ellejane6667 2 месяца назад
I think of it as a slipstream filter. it repels some things and consumes some things...which makes sense in terms of dark energy and dark matter. which could translate to one state being a foundation for another state, which is why the mass of the universe in terms of dark matter is undetected but is the engine drive for dark energy that can function without detection but through causation holds the total mass of universes dark matter...
@krisjupp
@krisjupp 2 месяца назад
This a repeat of what others have said 😢again
@sundaymacdonald2882
@sundaymacdonald2882 2 месяца назад
The world is flat . They were right all along 😅😂
@PolarisClubfan
@PolarisClubfan 2 месяца назад
Quantum information of human being hein 🤔 They don’t wanna say it straight that they wish to somehow find the dead people inside blackholes and bring them back to life 😂
@justinbyrge8997
@justinbyrge8997 2 месяца назад
🤔 "1 particle goes into the black hole and the other one escapes." Then how does the black hole lose energy? You said earlier that a black hole gains mass as things fall into it. Well, if a particle from one of these matter - anti matter pairs falls into it while the other doesn't, then the black hole gains mass by the amount of the mass of the particle that fell in. And if the pair originated outside the event horizon, aka in the universe, then it stands to reason that the universe lost mass to the black hole by the amount of the mass of the particle. If we want to equate mass with energy, then we can just as easily say that the universe lost energy to the black hole. And the equivalent statement that the black hole gained energy from the universe. Also, the energy/particle didn't come from nowhere. It came from the quantum fluctuations from the vacuum energy - just outside the event horizon. So, you're either not explaining this phenomenon correctly, or you smarties just got outsmarted by a dummy in the comment section without any degree whatsoever. 😁 Yeah, my jokes are terrible.
@mcgritty8842
@mcgritty8842 2 месяца назад
Seeing as how all data about black holes is 100% theoretical, scientists can say whatever they believe and feel is true. There is 0 data on black holes. We’ve never seen anything get close to one and we would have no idea what happens at one…
@thedeemon
@thedeemon 2 месяца назад
That particle-pair description is indeed not an adequate one, Hawking gave it in his book-without-equations for lay people, it's a fairy tale at best. The actual mechanism described in actual Hawking papers is quite different but just too hard to explain to non-experts. And even there the flow of negative energy into BH isn't explained well. Most of what she says in this video is extremely simplified and requires a big * after each sentence, with a link to hundred-hours physics courses with actual ideas behind these simple stories.
@heristyono4755
@heristyono4755 2 месяца назад
"The word 'hologram' in no way implies that somebody made it." Well. Somebody might have.
@JamesWhite-yj7sd
@JamesWhite-yj7sd 2 месяца назад
this is what we call being baffle by your own bullshit
@artophile7777
@artophile7777 2 месяца назад
Don't bullshit us you stupid persons.
@robertroach9157
@robertroach9157 2 месяца назад
And why is this bs?
@artophile7777
@artophile7777 2 месяца назад
What the heck
@artophile7777
@artophile7777 2 месяца назад
Yoooo
@artophile7777
@artophile7777 2 месяца назад
Nai
@ScienceRevised
@ScienceRevised 2 месяца назад
I too got a new information from this video about her, she doesn't brush teeth regularly like me.
@leonstenutz6003
@leonstenutz6003 2 месяца назад
How does this information help the hungry, poor, and victims of oppression, injustice, tyranny, and war? Is there maybe a reason why many nowadays distrust, dislike, even despise science?
@spicytoast6890
@spicytoast6890 2 месяца назад
What is the point of this comment? You realize science is more than just physics.. like.. vaccines!?
@rijodan
@rijodan 2 месяца назад
Yea be careful not to imply that "somebody" made the hologram. When the whole explanation has been full of guessing and "maybe". Well "maybe" you guys should stop the arrogance of excluding some theories over others based on your cultural liking.
@mcgritty8842
@mcgritty8842 2 месяца назад
Well seeing as how all “information” about black holes was made up by somebody, yoh can guarantee that none of it is fact. That’s how the scientific mehtod works. We accept things as fact until proven differently, which is bullshit in 2024. We’re smart enough to know wd’ve been lied to before. Remember when we were told Earth was the center of the universe? All of himanity believed it…
@Gringohuevon
@Gringohuevon 2 месяца назад
boring
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