How Dune Fans "Recommend" the Books 

Youre just jealous that my Duncan Idaho OC would beat your Duncan Idaho OC.

Pretty sure he says Duncan’s name in the bleeped section lol

true. I personally loved the final book. All these books about messiahs and chosen leaders and stuff, and then it finishes with just some dude (not really) flying into the fever dream of Tom Bombadil

you mean Duncans Idahos

My favorite Duncan is Duncan Idahomophobic

not to mention too much of Duncan Idaho, i had enough of him by the end of book 3, the fact he's still around by book 6 six is a nightmare. just let him be already, jesus christ. I know you need to somehow to relate the current events to the first books but god he overstays his welcome by too much. they really soured me on him.

typical progression of a teenage crisis

He loved his wife, man!! Deeply.... lol.

Aside from a couple, one-off sex scenes I don't recall the last two books being all that horny. I thought they were great. I'm one of those weirdos that enjoyed all of the books by Herbert.

@@tober0432 Same.

dude same lmao

Not figuratively?

I was doing the same, but telepathically instead of literally. I didn't write my answers down at all, and rather I projected The Voice without speaking. Damn, this Melange is good shi-

I didn't even read all of the things yet but I felt my sanity slipping away when I laughed in perfect sync at the end with the 2 nerds.

Thanks for typing this for me. Good looking out, brother.

I’d even say 3 is an extended extended epilogue… but after THAT… dune’s a good trilogy imo lol.

I thought Dune was like Martian but fantasy? But after watching the video and some of the comments I'm only getting progressively confused 😅 is it a good series then?

​@@MotorcycleWrites Good hexalogy as well.

​@@inourtime23The Best.

@@jakubolszewski8284 ok now i'm even more lost 💀

I mean, of course it would go wrong. He's an autocrat, whether or not he likes it.

It's not like there aren't any foreshadowing of what's gonna happen, if Paul goes down that road. It's understandable why people miss some of it, but it's not that unexpected, if you pay attention to the book.

@@pannapalanki8041 Yea, I feel like it is super obvious. The foreshadowing in the first book is not subtle at all. Sure, I fell in love with Paul's character, and it was really hard to accept what was inevitably going to happen, but it certainly wasn't a surprise. That being said, I still didn't like most of the 2nd book because I found the new characters boring.

I would dispute that. The tone of the last quarter of the first book is dark and non-heroic. It is presented as an ambiguous and uncomfortable transition of power, rather than the virtuous victory of heroes.

granted its probably been over 15 years since I read the books, but one of the things that stuck out for me is that yeah you have these empires feuding with each other and you have nobles scheming and vying for power blah blah blah, but every once in a while there was scene involving the regular citizenry and they're just....living and they don't seem to care which empire they're ruled by. Now sure, the Harkonnen were apparently the exception where they actively oppressed the citizens, but by and large, even under the tyrant god emperor rule average everyday life for a regular citizen was seemingly....okay and it was just the powerful that hated the God Emperor's rule I dunno if that was just Herbert being dumb and/or out of touch. but I thought maybe it was a message that yeah you can have your interstellar wars and politics and machinations....but don't fuck with the people and just leave them alone to do their thing.

I came here looking for this comment.

"You go, Duncan Idaho!"

Omg that’s so beef swelling ~sister Gretchen Weiners of the genes gesseritt mean girls

What? My beef is swelling right now. I knew I should have put those steaks in the freezer.

You're here, talking about it, it's happening!

Because it's probably how you and your buddy recommended a series to someone else.

@@klulu-kun Absolutely (though I don't have a buddy like that...)

As someone who knows Star Wars and Doctor Who Expanded Universe.....yeah

@@BazukinBelyugovich you'll find one :)

@@BazukinBelyugovichYou be your own buddy first!

Also he is Frodo because he does what he must even though he doesn't want to.

Also, this analogy kinda makes Leto II freaking Morgoth, even if though in this case Morgoth is actually Sauron's son, instead of Sauron being Morgoth's servant. Dune be weird, man.

He's not Sauron. But he lost control over his troops which caused the jihad

@@legion999 I don't agree. Paul lost control only once and immediately after that happened, he went to the desert.

​@@legion999He had plenty of control in Dune: Messiah. If he had commanded them to stop, they would've likely listened. He's the one who commanded them to go on the jihad.

BRING ME MORE DUCANS 🪱

DAMN THE ROMANS

So many Idahos... Its like being at a potato market.

Duncan Idahos for days man

Bruh in these books there is a scene where they sexually assault a little BOY just so that he can gain some memories???? And nobody talks about it???

This is perfect lol!

You got me with "eyes are optional"

It's been decades since I first read the book, and that description of Chapterhouse still makes me sad.

Haven't read the books yet but I'll save this screenshot now to return later and see how it fits 🤔

LMAO @ IV

The fourth book gets very weird.

I had a similar experience listening to the audiobook. The print version comes with multiple appendices.

Oh yeah, books with lots of made up vocabulary and weird concepts must be a nightmare for non-native speakers.

Don’t feel bad. English is my first language and I found myself constantly confused, looking things up, and re-reading so many passages. It took me forever to finish Book #1 the first time. Hell, even my second read was going like that (granted it was 10 years later). During the latter I found that having a tablet or e-reader is invaluable. You can select words or phrases for quick definitions and references without leaving the page, as well as flip back and forth between chapters and appendices much easier. I hated reading books on tablet until then, so.. thanks, I guess, Frank Herbert 😂 This is an excellent way to gain greater command of a language, native or no, so great job sticking through it!

Oh, and I also listened to the Reading Dune podcast after every chapter or two on my second read. Hearing outside perspective and analysis really helped me to work through much what I found confusing, as well as to solidify some of the concepts. Also those guys are funny. Highly recommended!

I picked up the first Butlerian Jihad book out of curiosity. It’s a decision I regret to this day.

Brian’s books sell, so somebody is reading them. Though I’ve never met anybody who claims to.

@@billcook4768Never saw them on the shelf though.

Love how you think you speak for everyone. Look at the balls on you😂

Mmmmm

Just ask them about Paul. Their answer tells you if they should read the second book.

I read Dune for the first time last year. I wish I would have read it when I was younger, because at this point with a lot of fantasy and science-fiction under my belt, it felt derivative. I absolutely know that this is because many other series have been inspired by Dune, but I read those first. I enjoyed Messiah, mostly because I’m anti war/imperialism and it seemed like a more realistic take than what a lot of depictions of emperors are. About 2/3 way through Children right now and I’m enjoying the politics in it and I’m planning to read God Emperor because I like weird stuff then I’m bowing out.

​@totesmagotes213 God Emperor is my favorite personally. Gimme that weird shit all day.

@@totesmagotes213 god emperor is a good place to stop, book 5-6 is only good if you really really like the bene gesserit and duncan idaho. Otherwise just bounce.

​@@oscarlove4394 I see Miles Teg as the inspiration for Thrawn in Timothy Zahn's Heir To The Empire trilogy.

So is it enough to read the first two? Do they end in a rounded finish enough to be left at that? (You know, like people say Matrix was a perfect stand-alone movie?)

​@@Nick1979BNIt depends on you. Some fans will be satisfied with how messiah ends. I wasn't. They leave giant "this will be important later" threads behind that play out in children of dune. I'd recommend you read all of them until you don't like one. Even the kids' books.

@@Nick1979BNI recommend only the first 4. Book 5 is sort of the start of a new trilogy and you don’t need that. Although all 8 books tell a grand story

What do you think it must feel like to be Brian Herbert?

Rich​@@GoneZombie

I honestly did not remember that graphic description from my reading long ago. Pretty sure teenage me thought it was really corny and not worth remembering.

If you don't read 3, you miss out on the immensely satisfying end to Paul's personal arc, though, which is a big loss.

eh. I prefer the ending to pauls story in 2.@@thescottishaccent

If you get past 4, it never ends

We don't talk about those books...@@coolgate7794

I agree that Messiah and God Emperor are perfect stopping points, but, alas, Frank's death has prevented there being a third (at least unless and until someone ever releases an unfiltered copy of his notes and outline for the last book).

just wait thousands of years and read the sequel for full immersion

For my money 'Children' and 'God Emperor' are the best two. I believe you did yourself a disservice.

gonna go in a completely different direction and say the first four books are actually a trilogy-the second and third books, being shorter than, and more reliant on the events of, the first book, are only one book really, serving as a transition between the first and third epics.

There's plenty of time to read Tolkien and Herbert and Verne and even Burroughs if you're feeling spicy.

My dad always just talks about the first three books. Seems like a well-rounded trilogy.

It's barely a parody.

he more or less explained things honestly and accurately the fourth book is genuinely the best of the series; don't @ me i am not taking questions if you disagree you're wrong

@@ktkatte6791 God Emperor of Dune was a breath of fresh air to me after how busy Children of Dune felt. It tops the series for me too.

pretty much accurate

It's not a parody at all this is 100% real

don't remember the African despite, who, some pharaoh?

It's been a minutes but I'm pretty sure Leto II wasn't possessed? He's a tyrant but I'm pretty sure he's just also Leto II haha

Beware thee, all squirrels who enter here.

He kinda explained it at the end of Children. Leto II accepts the genetic memories and becomes and amalgamation of his ancestors. They each have influence and may make an outward appearance, but he is still in charge.@@flatmars7072

@@flatmars7072Harum. At the end of Children of Dune Leto all but admits he succumbed to some form of abomination

Not entirely, The Beefswelling scene was in book 3 not book 5

He probably meant the chain of sausages scene on Heretics.

@@sernoddicusthegallant6986 which makes it worse cuz Leto was 9… but it was still pretty bad because the Duncan in the scene he’s referring to is only like 14 or 15 right?

There is also a scene in either the 5th or 6th book (probably the 6th iirc) in which the Bene Gesserit literally sexually assaults a little boy and nobody talks about it? Like, was I the only one who was weirded out by that?

@@roge2342 yep! It’s *probably* a hint from Frank saying “hey, this is a pretty explicit reason for you to remember: despite these being the main characters you’re not supposed to root for them.” Like, the action is a very horrific extreme of “the ends justifying the means” that’s 100% all throughout the series… but there are also still other examples that make you 🤨 so who knows Edit: and then his son and the other author come in and literally justify the means by the ending with a paper thin “we have Frank’s outline, we promise we know what’s up guys” despite very obviously changing the intended trajectory.

As a former Muslim, the first book resonated a lot with me due to the religious nature of the Fremen and the obvious source of inspiration for that. The second book slightly felt like fan fiction but with good moments. I haven't read the other books yet.

Man, I loved the first three books. Why does Messiah get so much dislike?

I don't like sand, it's coarse, rough, irritating and it gets everywhere

Funny. I found Dune Messiah much cooler than the first one. But I'd also stop after that, it's a solid duology. I agree though that it kinda feels like fanfiction in some strange way.

​​@@titan4257 I agree. I thought Dune Messiah, while it didn't have as much action and interesting story beats as the original, it was still a pretty enjoyable read. My guess is that people don't like it because the first book build up Paul as an epic hero of prophecy fighting to free a whole planet, but the second examines the flaws with the first interpretation that people thought

The introduction of the second book in recent printings explains it. Basically, while ecosystem is a big part of it, a more prominent point of the Dune books is how religion is a tool for power and that while it can bring some good changes, hero worship is not a good thing. Fans of the first book themselves didn't see the hints in the text as to where Paul's rule of the universe would go, and hero worshipped him the same way as people would to a Greek hero. That was never the point so Dune Messiah shows how that power runs away from Paul and ultimately leads to tragedy. It's a teardown of the "chosen savior is a good thing" idea, and yeah a lot of people at the time hated that Paul was shown to be imperfect at the time. Children and God Emperor kind of do the same thing with Leto II but with the added caveat of "necessary evil" thrown in.

Dune is really all about the dangers of charismatic leaders​@@midnightbloomofeorzea7182

​@@midnightbloomofeorzea7182 Thanks it's been a while since I've read them. Is the begining of the second book where it is explained that there was a jihad for the sake of Paul? It's not shown in the books but theres an intergalactic war right?

@@Zexy_Lover Yes, exactly. And in the book Paul compares himself to Hitler and Genghis Khan, noting that they each killed millions of people but he has killed billions and sterilized planets.

​@@midnightbloomofeorzea7182How do people just gloss over that stuff when reading the first book? The ecosystem part is good and is the basis of the whole book. But how do you miss the religious tones of the book? Paul has what feels like a million visions of how there will be a Jihad in his name, and how his rule will bring death to millions if not billions. It's implier VERY strongly. And then the second book just confirms it.

Yeah Dune Messiah starts getting seriously weird, but in a cool kind of way. Like that chill friend coming up with crazy scenarios. Definitely my favorite as well. It nuances the conclusion of the first one.

God-Emperor is the best thing ever but Messiah is definitely my second favorite . It’s heresy but I had mixed feelings on Dune, Messiah is what hooked me on the series.

@@thibaud1832. Agreed. The original is actually my second to least favorite of the series, as odd as that sounds

I've had people asking me if I was making stuff up when trying to explain the six Dune books to them.

Which was also the working title of the first Star Wars.

It’s basically the conversation I had with my husband. He was able to read Dune and Dune Messiah and really liked them. But he tuned out at Children.

Dune itself provides that understanding, honestly if someone fails to read that in dune I don't think any of the other books will help. The issue isn't a lack of clarity, it's a lack of thought on the readers part, they read for entertainment and don't consider books as imparting ideas. Or as sad as it is to admit, they are partial to dictators and so aren't prompted to think by reactions of disgust at evolution of the fremen.

@@TheInfectous idk if you missed the message in the first book sure you weren't paying enough attention, but if you don't get the message by the end of messiah you're REALLY DUMB

@@TheInfectous For some who don't get it Dune Messiah will either open their eyes or make them hat Messiah.

Also just subscribe because yeah this was gold..

Enjoy it! It’s a wild ride but it’s super good

Oh look, another one trying to be in the cool kids 'I HATE BRIAN' club and make all kinds of stuff up to make it look as if I had an argument.

@@ThaGamingMisfit It's just true, Brian doesn't understand the universe his father created. Biggest example being the Butlerian Jihad, it's supposed to be a war between people over how thinking machines were used by people who controlled them, not a literal war against rogue A.I. like we're in the Terminator series.

Agreed. The best one in my opinion.

Yes it's my favorite in the series! Four was cool too, but I didn't really like any of the characters beyond Leto II.

I found the middle half of it to be incredibly page-turning! But it kinda lost steam as it wrapped up in the final act. I also absolutely adore the second book and it boggles my mind to see how so many people hate it to this day.

@pizza7495 yeah you mainly read book 4 for Leto II philosophy and convos.

@@Rauruatreides yeah those were by far the best part of the book

5 and 6 are getting too much hate in these comments, they’re awesome. Miles is a good character and it’s super interesting to learn about the internal dynamics and thought processes of the bene gesserit

It's funny seeing all of the people praising book 4 but hating book 5 and 6. The decisions that the god emperor makes only make sense in retrospect, once you know what was the big threat that he foresaw.

Yes but did they have to molest him

Miles Teg is awesome. Duke Leto on steroids.

There's not really much to say other than that Brian just is not a good writer. It's not about the author being different; it's about a significantly less talented author gaining control over a series he seems intent on milking till it's drier than Arrakis itself.

what the first guy said plus i think brians analysis of his father's own series is just plain wrong, he doesn't seem to actually understand what dune was about, because he leans so hard into the threat of robots, when 99% of dune is about human development, the dangers of believing in a messiah, and the dangers of technology when put in the wrong hands, not just robots bad.

I started with house atreides as a teenager after having just read a bunch of Isaac Asimov and LOTR and enjoyed it just fine. then I jumped to Dune and thoroughly enjoyed all 6 to varying degrees. The writing is different, but still entertaining and interesting if your standards aren't overly high. It's just Sci Fi.

@@ethanaskey7285I read a Bit of a summary because I was considering getting into them, and when I saw that Duncan‘s Vision from 5/6 just got retconned to be about machines I knew it wasn‘t for me. Can‘t speak about the quality of the writing, but that was such a massive Shift in direction for no reason.

I've only read some summaries of the material, so I cannot speak to the quality of the writing (though I hear it's not great)... but as a couple of others have already said, it just seems like he has some fundamental misunderstandings about what his father wanted to convey with his novels. Brian's ideas for many concepts in the lore seem to be VERY different from those in the original six novels, usually in a way which removes most of the depth and nuance, reducing the complexity of the narrative to become a far more simple good-vs-evil type story. It essentially takes a story where one of the main themes is that you shouldn't rely on heroes, and turns it into a superhero story. Plus, they apparently introduce a bunch of shit which just sound like some ridiculous satire or fanfiction; ***Massive SPOILERS for the Brian Dune novels below*** ***SPOILERS*** - "Ultraspice", which comes from genetically altered sandworms which now live in the ocean instead (displacing the half-fish-half-man creatures living there). - Some sort of warp drives so foldspace isn't needed anymore. - Alternate universes - Daniel and Marty, shown at the end of Chapterhouse and foreshadowed to be some sort of advanced Face Dancers, are instead revealed to be intelligent robots which survived from the Butlerian Jihad, and they launch thousands of von Neumann probes to re-create the "Synchronized Empire" and restore the robot leader Evermind. - The inventor of foldspace tech is revealed to still be alive, now tens of thousands of years old and evolved into a godlike entity who saves the day and stops the evil robots by taking away their leader. - The latest version of Duncan merges with the leader of the remaining machines, becoming half-human-half-robot. - Gholas are made of Leto, Leto II, Chani, Jessica, Yueh, the Baron, the leader of the Butlerian Jihad, Hawat, Alia, multiple Paul clones (two of which are forced to battle to show which is better), etc. - The Leto II ghola regains his memories and merge seven worms together into a giant superworm. - Arrakis is revealed to NOT have been destroyed, and is recovering instead. - It ends with Paul/Chani living happily ever after on Arrakis, and Leto/Jessica living happily ever after on Caladan.

You're missing out on a lot, especially in book 4.

That makes me sad for you.

Yes, beefswelling was on the ?sex? ?vision? of Leto and Sabine (Sahine? Saline? Satine?)

I agree about the second trilogy. I stopped reading midway through Chapterhouse because I just didn't know where he was going with it anymore, and knowing that he died and never finished the final book I just didn't see a point. The final two just stick out.

Love Chapterhouse. Not sure why so many ate hating on 5-6 tbh

I’m about a quarter of the way through it right now. How much further do I have to go before I am thoroughly disturbed?

I couldn't get past page 50 of Heretics of Dune until I forced myself to finish the series mid last year (I finished God Emperor in 2016). It doesn't get bad per se but it definitely gets **weird**, as others have said. The good parts outweigh the bad, but at certain times only by the thinnest of margins.

Miles Teg in heretics alone is worth it imo.

Too much good in 5-6 not to read.

same here

Bizarre

Heretics and Chapterhouse deepen God Emperor. I always recommend anyone who gets to 4 finish through 6.

In 'others' you mean the cool kids club namde 'I HATE BRIAN' ? Heck if anything skip book 4-6 and read the legends trilogy.

@@ThaGamingMisfit fuck the brian books little goobert

How is no one else mentioning this

It is fantasy though.

@@RolandIronfist13 (it's generally considered sci fi, which is usually a separate genre).

You only cheer for the genocidal dictator in 'Dune'. In the 'Dune: Messiah' - Herbert makes it clear that our Muad'dib *IS* unambiguously a genocidal dictator. Frank Herbert's central thesis for those books can be summarized as, "No more terrible disaster can befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a Hero." "Don't give over all of your critical faculties to people in power, no matter how admirable those people appear to be. Beneath the hero's facade you will find a human who makes human mistakes. Enormous problems arise when human mistakes are made on the grand scale available to the superhero. And sometimes you run into another problem. It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people who want power for the sake of power and that a significant portion of those people are imbalanced -- in a word, insane."

I agree but I can see how you might not enjoy the feeling that you were tricked into rooting for psychic-space emperor Adolf Bin-Laden, which I think is the core of what turns people off to it. You don't have to LIKE it for it to be a work of subversive genius.

No. But you do need to finish the series to appreciate this video. 😊

Read the Brian Sequels. They arent perfect, but they are good, as long as you can accept that franks notes didnt allign with all populär fan theories

Brian should release the notes

how about you read it? what the fuck else would you do with it

Been there lol

Dune part 1 and 2 only cover the first book, so don't skip Dune Messiah. Also, even though you have seen the movies you still should read Dune.

1. Dune 2. Dune Messiah 3. Children of Dune 4. God emperor of Dune 5. Heretics of Dune 6. Chapterhouse Dune

I would read and stop at either 1, 2 or 4. I didn't make it through 5 but I did try. Those ones all have a pretty good and conclusive ending where you can stop and won't feel a void on the story. Honestly 1 is the only really good book, I think the rest suffer from meandering and also have their own periods of excessive... well let's just say trying to describe psychedelic experiences over the course of multiple chapters does not exactly read well. All of what I read has interesting enough ideas they are worth reading they're just not really as compelling.

Of the six original books, I would honestly break them all down into 3 duologies. Each duology focusing on a different main character. Dune and Dune Messiah are a pair dealing with Paul as the main character. Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune is centered around his son. Then the final two books will be centered on another main character (which I will not name). You can use that knowledge as a barometer on whether you want to see a certain character’s arc finish or just drop out completely.

@@TheInfectous I would mostly second this. I do recommend anyone that enjoys the first book to at least read the second. If you're still into it, read up to 4 so you can understand all the juicy memes, and because a ton of people find it to be their favorite (though it wasn't mine). I would only recommend reading past that if you're dying for more, but be prepared for a let down as far as endings go (there really isn't one).

@@TheInfectous True from a certain point of view, but YMMV. I read them all at too young an age and my brain got warped so I love it all, but I've known people who had trouble with how dry the prose is in original Dune, with most finding the writing to be more tolerable as they advance in the series. To me Messiah feels like it should have been an fourth part of book 1, seeing as it's almost as long as each of the constituent sections of the first book and makes the point the first book was meant to, and Children feels like Frank got bored halfway through and decided to start writing a new, different sci-fi series on his advance.

They are good, tho not on Franks level

I don't know if some of the hate towards those books is just blind hate because they weren't written by the original author, but, for me, I actually read the sequel books and they fucking sucked. And I didn't know until after I read them that they were so hated by fans. Never got around to the prequels, though.

Look someone who looks in the mirror and call the image 'everyone'. No need to trying getting in the cool kids 'I HATE BRIAN' club.

It's good to see there are still actual dune fans that don't feel the need to belong to the hate fanclub.@@isaacbruner65