Yo Riders I hope all is well, Sorry about the lack of videos the last few weeks just been mental busy with this Campervan.. I hope you like this long day on the Trek Rail....
Cube hard tail. Bosch gen 4, 625. Eco all day, 6h 22s moving time, 91.8km, 1963m climbing. Battery ran out 1/2 mile from home. Winter too. It was a loooong day.
Sam on the colder weather the battery generally looses about 30% of normal due to cold, that being 45 degrees Fahrenheit or so. I bought a neoprene sleeve to go around my exposed battery (Commencal MaxMax) and one to wrap around the frame for my Trek Rail. This will give back up to 15% depending on temps.
@@SamsBikes Older testing and responses, but wanted to chime in on this. I have been riding 2020 or 2021 Rail 7 (bought used), I can get just under 600m of climbing then down to 2%. Now in all fairness was riding in 3C - 5C range and all climbing was quite technical, and was running in all modes tour, emtb and turbo at times. This bike has the older Purion. Bike is setup with super sticky, DD tires and inserts. Not certain if the range will get much better with warmer temps and perhaps lighter duty tires.
The new Bosch firmware Update that gives you Tour+ or Magic Tour will get you over 100KM's easily. I did a ride the other day that was 56KM's and came home with 60% battery capacity.
Longest ride on my Rail 9.8 was 37mi 6,000ft elevation gain. I weigh 190 lbs. Fairly even split between eco/tour/emtb ended with 17% left. Great vids, cheers Sam!
Salvador, this comment made my day as I ordered the 2022 Rail 9.8 today and I've been trying to figure out the range as I weigh 175. This is with the 750WH battery correct? Thanks!
@@ProjectingMTBBanter oh wow 625 that's great news. I've got a feeling you are a much stronger rider than I am because you are getting some serious range. Thanks for the info!
Great video Sam. Got back into biking after 20years. Now 52 years old. Learning my Mtb skills on a Focus Jam with Bosch gen 4. Loving every bit. I got similar figures. Hard Work!
Thanks for the review buddy. Don’t worry about you slight lack of videos always keep your mental status as priority man good to see your on top of it 👍
Nice! that's pretty much what we predict with our bikes given the climbing, we've done 60km with 1600 climb with about 20% left at the end. My wife has a 2021 Scott Genius with the 625 battery and I have the 2021 Levo Expert with the 700. She managed the whole Brisbane Valley Rail Trail on one battery, 162kms with 9% left on the display. On normal runs in the bush or bike parks we get very similar range. Our previous bikes were the 2016 Scott E-Sparks with the 500 Bosch setup and the new bikes while chunkier leave us a bit of fat in range for sure.
The wife is usually much lighter, also.their bikes (a few kilos) so for the same type of bikes and same fitness level, they should last considerably longer.
Love these tests! I have the gen 4 and haven’t even come close to range anxiety! I can easily do a 30 mile, mountainous ride and not worry. Didn’t realise you were on strava! Now following you! 👍🏻
Great video Sam, I really enjoy these range tests. I’m interested in logic behind the Linear use of power each motor has with its battery, I think you’re onto something there. I now ride Bosch and I’m very impressed although I’m surprised at how much more the Bosch managed vs the competition. 5wh less than Shimano yet 15km and 370meters elevation more. 75wh less than Brose yet just 1.2km short while managing 51meters more elevation. Based on some very loose maths, if the Bosch had the additional 75wh it would have roughly clocked up another 9km. The current Bosch package is taking the W here for sure.
I have just brought my first ebike a trek powerfly 5 with the the 625W battery early days but I find that Tour mode is one of the best modes for general riding and low battery use. Off course turbo is best for steep hills but is a drain. Great vid Sam
It would be super interesting to plot those figures over your average power output, over the ride, to get the most accurate picture. You also talk about 'being stranded', but these bikes still function as bikes (Albeit very heavy ones!) without the motor. Great video though. Would love to see a review of the Meta Power TR
My Rail 7 could do around 100km on the flat tarseal road in Eco so around 80km give of take either side be norm for mixed type average riding lots variables come into range testing
Well, last winter I was riding at -17 C and -22 C and basically my range was about half compared to the +25 C we have now. In the summer I can ride the same trails 35-45 km and return with a couple bars left, but in the coldest winter days 25 km was pushing my luck making it back home with any assistance. Of course, the packed snow makes more resistance, so it is not only the temperature. Now the trails are hardpack and roll pretty darn well.
You should try a Yamaha giant, I was able to complete a ride on one where a Bosch killed the battery completely. Seems like it might be even more efficient with the 625 battery
Thanks a lot I'm looking for range and almost bought a EP8, looking for a Bosch right now ! Also what alerted me is Shimano removing its range calculator... Not reassuring at all 🙃
As a reference, i have done over 2,000 mts of altitud gain (65Km) on Eco on a Brose / Levo 700 Wh battery and left the battery with 15%. So i presume it can go max to 2,200 as max. Obviously it depends on the energy the rider is also providing. On Trail mode same bike, similar trail got only 1,800 mts of gained altitud but the last 200 mts did in Eco and Off to managed to be able to get back home (energy left around 5%).
I totally agree with the motor choice sam, owning a rail7 and loving the Bosch motor, and having rode the brose and sl and shimano ep8, there all good but I do prefer the Bosch. Great test sam.
Another great video! I'm sure glad I subscribed to your channel. So much useful content. Linda's Rail 7 seems pretty consistent as far as range in varying temperatures and humidity. Maybe as the battery gets older there might be some change due to temperature. I wonder truly what percentage of assist the Gen 4 is giving compared to the Brose? For range they are SO CLOSE.
It really depends how you ride, terrain, wind and temperature of the battery. I would say my 625w Bosch battery range in eco mode is between 60-70 miles or 100-112km.
Great video. I’d be interested to know how much assistance each of the motors was giving you throughout the test. Like I know the Bosch Gen 4 has a 340% max assistance, the Levo 410% and the EP8 400% so maybe the Bosch went further because it was assisting less? I saw a video on EMBN where they tested the Levo up a hill and the display was saying that the motor was giving them 700watts of assistance in turbo when they were cranking it up a steep climb. Also Trail mode on the EP8/Levo might be quite different from Tour on the Bosch in terms of assistance. Anyway, I’m just speculating. Great video. When I first got my Meta Power SX Race with the EP8, I did a range test and only got 56.6km with 831m of climbing with 3 hours 6 minutes of moving time which was a little disappointing. I am 100kg though and the bike was new and I realised a bit later that the brakes were rubbing so if I did it again I might get a little better.
Thanks for the comment’ check the videos on the range I tried to make it easier to understand and I was just doing it in the average in trail! 100 and not scientific but I kind of thought for the average rider out there it was quite interesting.
Great video, I have a kenevo expert 2022 and looking at the strive ON underdog, trying to work out I'd gen 4 cx bosch with 625wh is enough, based on your fantastic video that gives the range of my SL vs this setup. I don't need to pay £200 more for the 750wh battery with extra 900g weight... unless you advise otherwise
Hey Jonny thanks mate! Maybe check out my extreme range test on all the motor! I did it on the Mondraker crafty with the XR the 750wh batter and got about 1450meter of vertical climbing. If you think you might want to do that much riding in one session then maybe it’s worth getting it! Also I think you can buy the new 200wh range extender if you want more and go with the 625wh but check if it fits the Strive
You should test a Giant. It wouldn't take very long or be very difficult. battery will be smoked in 32km. also your comment about cold weather. I notice about a 20 percent difference in cold.
Nice Video, good comparision and a surprise which is not really one. 625 Wh Bosch battery is on the same level as Brose 700 Wh. We had this comparision in our riding group, by chance the dude on the Levo Gen 3 is the about the same in weight and fitness as me and should have an advantage of 12 % on range but hasn´t. Explanation seems to be that the battery management of the Bosch Battery allows to use the capacity better to it´s limits and also drains the battery down to 3 %, Brose (as well as Shimano) seem to shut off earlier.
Hey Sam, great vid. I love my Rail. Just upgraded to a 170mm Zeb. Awesome bike. Really want to try the new EMTB Lite mode. I ride mostly in tour mode on longer days but sometimes use EMTB for after work quick blasts and find that it eats the battery on the big hills - less than 40km. Im 77kg and pretty fit. There is a test that I want to see you do related to this bike. Grab the standard wheel and fit a Big Betty :-D Tried to fit one on my Rail 7 a couple of weeks ago. First time I ever failed to fit a tire. Tried all the tricks.
Did you remove the plastic Trek rim tape and replace with normal tape? leaves more room for the tyre to bed lower into the rim and help mount the tyre...
@@Extremegaz25 I came from the 160 Yari with stock settings for my weight. The difference between axle and lower bearing race was 12mm between Yari and Zeb. Riding along the flat it is noticeable but hardly. I rode some long enduro trails in Switzerland and the fork performed amazingly well. Notably stiffer than the Yari and as all the reviews point out the mid stroke support is significantly improved. I am not a super hard rider but I was catching other riders on the trail and the fork never felt stressed even in instances of panic braking. I have not yet rode it on the super steep technical trails where the Yari would pack down an flex and generally feel sketchy. This is where I am hoping to find the big advantage with the Zeb. Overall the fork complements the Rail well and has no real downsides. All that said its worth the purchase just on looks alone :-)
@@mrdog3920 cheers dude I've been considering it since buying it, better get saving, I already got the through valve shock for the rear because I really wanted the rail 9 but couldn't wait till AUGUST 22.
@@Extremegaz25 Same for me. I was lucky enough to find a 21 Rail 7 in August 2020 right in the middle of the E-bike shortage. I jumped on it. I am enjoying making the upgrades to my own spec. I am also looking at the through valve shock. Can you buy it retail or do you need to go through a Trek dealer?
I got a lot less on a Trek Rail 7 I rented the other week. It was cooler (60F) and I got 32 miles with (3 miles of range left) and 3,200 ft of climbing in a mix of ECO for most riding with TOUR for the uphill segments.
I got 70 miles and 4400ft elevation out of my 625 battery when brand new.....on a orbea wild fs,dry ground....was riding for 8.5 hrs,wouldn’t do that again 😂
@@2011buddylee my pal did same ride on his 2019 levo,we was in eco most of the time tho...only used turbo on the big climbs...wouldn’t do it again tho....
I don't remember now if your levo gen3 test was using eco o trail. But it's important to know it to make a fair comparison between them. Currently I'm enjoying a turbo levo comp gen2 (but fresh new, so it's motor 2.2) and I don't think default trail mode (I guess the equivalent to tour on Bosch) with 0% shuttle and 20% acceleration could make almost 80kms :-o. I think I will have to try it haha
David good point champ, I did some testing and tried to keep my average heart rate at 135 which is what I like to train at on all test the levo SL my heart was 145 but the rest 135. Defo do a range test for me hahah they are hard work
Not sure why my comment got deleted but here we go again. I bought my 2020 Turbo Levo Expert Carbon, in November 2020 with zero MTB experience . Today is July4th and I now have 1000 miles under my tires and I absolutely love it ! ,,,, I blew my motor and my local Bike Shop got me the new updated version for free and it took 12 days and then I blew my rear end and they got me the new updated version along with 2 new carbon wheels for free and it took 12 days , so I'm happy with the brands. The motor made uphill fun and suddenly I became a downhill rider . Now that I have some experience, I feel like I want a 27.5 on the rear and more travel up front . The 2022 comes stock like this so it must be a good idea, I just want to make sure my frame will like the adjustment. I would love some thoughts on this please ? ? ?
First time that i'm looking into e-mtb's and i gotta be honest, those ranges are on the low side and i live in the far north, where temps can be close to 0c in the middle of summer. Those numbers just doesn't cut it tbh. I was expecting a little more, in the 110 to 130km range in normal mode, not eco. Well well, maybe i'll stay on my normal bike for a few more years.
Great video! I’m considering buying a turbo levo $5500US, as my first ebike, especially now that the TCU will be compatible . Have you ever tested one of these out?
What is your weight? I have 100kg. I am not able to do more than 60km and +1000m on my rail 9.8gx with 3300km without speed limitter. I am always going very fast. That means maximum 1.5-2hours of riding
hmm, I think my Rocky Mountain 632wh battery is a bit knackered. I'm 85kg, and I'll get pretty low on battery after 50km and 700m climb on mainly gravel.
Hey mate, I’ve just bought a Cube Reaction Pro with the 4th Gen Bosch, but it only has a 400wh battery. Do you reckon knocking 30% off this range would give me a decent estimate?
@@SamsBikes Appreciate ya mate. Cheers. By the way, I’m picking it up today actually from 99 Bikes. You’ve been a great resource of info. Thanks for all your videos. Legend
Hello champion, I have to change my ebike and I am very happy with the bosch 2021 motor, I have some ebikes that I like but they have a shimano motor, weight 90 kg and from what I see the shimano motor has a little less thrust and consumes more battery , can you corroborate that? I would not like to do less kilometer than the ones I do now with the bosch and make a mistake.
I have a 9.7 and a strip of electrical tape around the frame at the top gap of the battery will stop the rattle, that's my only complaint with the rail, otherwise a great build.
Not really unless you don't care about maximizing life time of battery. While Li-Ion hates sitting at 100% charge it also doesn't like "empty storage". So if battery charge goes very low you should charge it back to 50-60% level at first moment possible even if you're not going to use bike soon.
@@SamsBikes Very surprising...i would like to have this possibility also on my bike. Can you tell me what's are the software versions of Kiox and motor? (My are Kiox 3.1.1.0 and motor 1.1.2.0) You can see this on Kiox display or ebike-connect app
Should do the test in turbo with all bike, cuz the mid setting is not all equilavent, ep8 gives you about the same multiplicator than the other , but allows for full torque even in trail… that might explain the difference, cuz bosch and brose limit the torque in tour/trail, so you probably get less assistance in steeper section where you put more human torque
Did you used Bosch in EMTB mode? Does it lasts longer than alternating between Sport and Tour? I ride on the street only. Should I update to emtb or let the firmware with Sport mode? Thank you in advance.
On my Bulls w/750 wh battery and the Brose S Mag I can get 35-40 miles (55-65 kilometers) and 5000’ vertical (1524 meters) if I reduce the factory setting on eco mode from 40% to 26-30%. Otherwise I get 4000’ (1200 meters) and 32 miles (50 kilometers) on factory settings. 4.5 to 5 hours of riding so more than enough for me and my backside.
The harder you pedal, the more range you get, so it looks like Sam put more effort😀 Also do you ride in dry conditions like Sam? Muddy, loose, rocky terrain sucks the life out of battery...
Frankly Sam this is a fundamental question that needs answering in terms of your range test, do you know the difference between standard tour mode and the latest Trek tour upgrade named emtb lite and what Moustache call Magic Mode?? The Trek so called EMTB Lite mode (shown on the display as Tour) offers assistance I believe up to 250% but requires considerable pedaling force to achieve that level, this is more than the standard Tour mode and is progressive. I and many of your subscribers I am sure would like to know exactly what mode you did this test in? As a self confessed emtb geek perhaps you can conduct some detailed investigation and provide these answers 🙄
Found the same with my 2021 Focus Thron2, on a big ride (www.strava.com/activities/5094282754) I did approx 70km + 1800VM before the battery died. I had it mainly in Tour mode along with some Eco. My weight is around 87kg.
Thanks a lot I'm looking for range and almost bought an EP8, looking for a Bosch right now ! Also what alerted me is Shimano removing its range calculator... Not reassuring at all 🙃
